[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

My THJR appreciation thread
Author Thread
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

11/17/2018  6:05 PM
No this isn't about scoring, though he is doing that.
This dude is playing with a lot of emotion in a good way. He clearly wants to be a knick and is putting in effort on both ends to do what he can to make the team win. He is carrying the team at times, but also at least trying on defense. He is never going to be high IQ, but he is playing with heart, and I appreciate it. I would still be happy to trade him at the first opportunity but I respect the fact that he comes to play basketball and does it in a drama free unselfish way. Its a huge upgrade from what we were used to over the last few years.
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
AUTOADVERT
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
11/17/2018  7:22 PM
Posted this in its own thread but the premise is that Hardaway isn't overpaid for how he has been playing.
https://fansided.com/2018/11/15/whiteboard-tim-hardaway-overpaid/
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

11/17/2018  11:43 PM
Guess, no one else appreciates THJR
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
TripleThreat
Posts: 23106
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/24/2012
Member: #3997

11/18/2018  2:16 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:No this isn't about scoring, though he is doing that.
This dude is playing with a lot of emotion in a good way. He clearly wants to be a knick and is putting in effort on both ends to do what he can to make the team win. He is carrying the team at times, but also at least trying on defense. He is never going to be high IQ, but he is playing with heart, and I appreciate it. I would still be happy to trade him at the first opportunity but I respect the fact that he comes to play basketball and does it in a drama free unselfish way. Its a huge upgrade from what we were used to over the last few years.

Overpaid/Bad contract versus Toxic contract

Ryan Anderson is overpaid. He's a very good traditional Stretch 4 with zero defense. He can't play pivot and he can't defend the rim. He knows the difference between a good shot and a bad shot and generally can bomb you from long range and be reliable about it all. He's USEFUL but he's not valuable to his bad contract status ( AAV and length)

Bargnani was a toxic contract. He did nothing well, he had a **** attitude and his contract status was horrible ( AAV and length) He was not useful in any way. No defense, no rim protection, just a waste of a roster spot.

"Price is what you pay. Value is what you get." - Warren Buffet

THJr is overpaid. He's not a toxic contract. He is however a bad contract.

The problem here and most places is if you say THJr is overpaid to market with a bad contract, many people will take it as you are saying he's useless. That's not true. He has some uses, but not for what he makes. No one is calling THJr useless. Many though are saying he is overpaid for what he offers on the court.

Many want to cite other contracts to justify THJrs. Yes, during a several season phase of the most cap space opening up in the entire history of the sport. If you go to a bachelor party that goes out of control, and 9 of the 10 guys there get HIV from banging some strippers, but you only ended up with herpes and the drip and got one of those strippers pregnant because you raw dogged her and she's gonna keep it, do you call that a win?

If you compare this bad contract to bunch of other bad contracts, it's actually quite average!

What the **** kind of reasoning is that?

THJr is a bad contract. No one is calling him useless. They are saying he doesn't provide value for what he's paid FACTORING IN ACTUAL MARKET CORRECTION FOR BAD CONTRACTS DURING THE CAP SPIKE WITH NO SMOOTHING OPTION.

Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.

CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
11/18/2018  4:23 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:No this isn't about scoring, though he is doing that.
This dude is playing with a lot of emotion in a good way. He clearly wants to be a knick and is putting in effort on both ends to do what he can to make the team win. He is carrying the team at times, but also at least trying on defense. He is never going to be high IQ, but he is playing with heart, and I appreciate it. I would still be happy to trade him at the first opportunity but I respect the fact that he comes to play basketball and does it in a drama free unselfish way. Its a huge upgrade from what we were used to over the last few years.

Overpaid/Bad contract versus Toxic contract

Ryan Anderson is overpaid. He's a very good traditional Stretch 4 with zero defense. He can't play pivot and he can't defend the rim. He knows the difference between a good shot and a bad shot and generally can bomb you from long range and be reliable about it all. He's USEFUL but he's not valuable to his bad contract status ( AAV and length)

Bargnani was a toxic contract. He did nothing well, he had a **** attitude and his contract status was horrible ( AAV and length) He was not useful in any way. No defense, no rim protection, just a waste of a roster spot.

"Price is what you pay. Value is what you get." - Warren Buffet

THJr is overpaid. He's not a toxic contract. He is however a bad contract.

The problem here and most places is if you say THJr is overpaid to market with a bad contract, many people will take it as you are saying he's useless. That's not true. He has some uses, but not for what he makes. No one is calling THJr useless. Many though are saying he is overpaid for what he offers on the court.

Many want to cite other contracts to justify THJrs. Yes, during a several season phase of the most cap space opening up in the entire history of the sport. If you go to a bachelor party that goes out of control, and 9 of the 10 guys there get HIV from banging some strippers, but you only ended up with herpes and the drip and got one of those strippers pregnant because you raw dogged her and she's gonna keep it, do you call that a win?

If you compare this bad contract to bunch of other bad contracts, it's actually quite average!

What the **** kind of reasoning is that?

THJr is a bad contract. No one is calling him useless. They are saying he doesn't provide value for what he's paid FACTORING IN ACTUAL MARKET CORRECTION FOR BAD CONTRACTS DURING THE CAP SPIKE WITH NO SMOOTHING OPTION.

Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.


Check the market before the hate post. Tim is playing at a very high level. If you are going to call out Tim's contract as an over pay for his position you have to cite the other contracts for his position. If you consider the variable of signing a restricted free agent where you have to offer a deal that the controlling team wont match you have to consider that as well. Tim is far from an Allen Crabbe, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Johnson, Omar Asik type signing. He is producing at a rate where shooting guards get paid at least 17 mil.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

11/18/2018  11:16 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:No this isn't about scoring, though he is doing that.
This dude is playing with a lot of emotion in a good way. He clearly wants to be a knick and is putting in effort on both ends to do what he can to make the team win. He is carrying the team at times, but also at least trying on defense. He is never going to be high IQ, but he is playing with heart, and I appreciate it. I would still be happy to trade him at the first opportunity but I respect the fact that he comes to play basketball and does it in a drama free unselfish way. Its a huge upgrade from what we were used to over the last few years.

Overpaid/Bad contract versus Toxic contract

Ryan Anderson is overpaid. He's a very good traditional Stretch 4 with zero defense. He can't play pivot and he can't defend the rim. He knows the difference between a good shot and a bad shot and generally can bomb you from long range and be reliable about it all. He's USEFUL but he's not valuable to his bad contract status ( AAV and length)

Bargnani was a toxic contract. He did nothing well, he had a **** attitude and his contract status was horrible ( AAV and length) He was not useful in any way. No defense, no rim protection, just a waste of a roster spot.

"Price is what you pay. Value is what you get." - Warren Buffet

THJr is overpaid. He's not a toxic contract. He is however a bad contract.

The problem here and most places is if you say THJr is overpaid to market with a bad contract, many people will take it as you are saying he's useless. That's not true. He has some uses, but not for what he makes. No one is calling THJr useless. Many though are saying he is overpaid for what he offers on the court.

Many want to cite other contracts to justify THJrs. Yes, during a several season phase of the most cap space opening up in the entire history of the sport. If you go to a bachelor party that goes out of control, and 9 of the 10 guys there get HIV from banging some strippers, but you only ended up with herpes and the drip and got one of those strippers pregnant because you raw dogged her and she's gonna keep it, do you call that a win?

If you compare this bad contract to bunch of other bad contracts, it's actually quite average!

What the **** kind of reasoning is that?

THJr is a bad contract. No one is calling him useless. They are saying he doesn't provide value for what he's paid FACTORING IN ACTUAL MARKET CORRECTION FOR BAD CONTRACTS DURING THE CAP SPIKE WITH NO SMOOTHING OPTION.

Price is what you pay. Value is what you get.

I am one of the people who think he is overpaid. I don't think he consistently produces at the level he is paid. Having said that he is showing signs that he can put the effort in to get there. I don't think the gap is as big af you make it out to be. And I am honestly trying to give him credit for trying. I can get behind a guy who puts the team first and plays hard. He will never be a NBA quality two way player, but that doesn't automatically make him overpaid.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
TripleThreat
Posts: 23106
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/24/2012
Member: #3997

11/18/2018  2:16 PM
CrushAlot wrote: If you are going to call out Tim's contract as an over pay for his position you have to cite the other contracts for his position. If you consider the variable of signing a restricted free agent where you have to offer a deal that the controlling team wont match you have to consider that as well. Tim is far from an Allen Crabbe, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Johnson, Omar Asik type signing. He is producing at a rate where shooting guards get paid at least 17 mil.


I get where meloshouldgo is going with this. I appreciate his perspective. He's citing that THJr is acting as a professional. My take is a bit different, I'd say THJr acting as a professional and the desire to laud it says less about THJr and more about the general NBA culture.

Being a professional is your job. No one should get credit for what you are supposed to do anyway. But in the NBA, so many guys are entitled douchebags that players who are professionals get lauded for the contrast.

The Knicks have tried to trade THJr ( and pretty much everyone besides Zinger, Frank N, MRob and Knox) since the time they signed him. No one wants him. Not at his AAV/contract length plus bizarre trade kicker.

NO ONE WANTS HIM.

That's the end of the story. Wasn't hard to trade Robin Lopez was it? Because he was on a value contract and had the ability to help other teams.

If you don't think THJr's contract is ****, that's fine, you are entitled to your view. But against the actual NBA MARKETPLACE, he's a bad contract. No one wants it, which should tell you something.

Everyone has a right to their view. But if you were in a functional NBA front office and tried to justify THJr's contract, they'd just fire you. Classically, as the story goes, an NBA intern tried to impress his front office by openly talking about how the max deal Joe Johnson got from the Hawks was a good contract. He got rewarded by getting fired.

Single mother creates her first Plenty Of Fish or Match profile. "I'm successful, I have a good career, I'm attractive, I don't know why I'm alone"

Simple answer - You are not attractive.

Some Knicks fans say THJr is this, he's that, look at these other contracts

Simple answer - Knicks have tried to trade this dude since they signed him. If he was a true value, they wouldn't be trying to trade him. If he was the value some people want to push, other teams would want him.

If you are single and don't want to be single, good chance you are ugly. Talking about the other women you know who have relationships means nothing in this context.

If your team has been trying to trade you and they can't, good chance no other team sees the value in your production against your cost. Talking about other bad contracts means nothing in this context.

TJJr is like an ugly woman some of you are convinced is much prettier than in reality. If that was true, men would be lining up around the block. Do you see a line? Do you see a line of teams saying ****, I need to get THJr and his value contract onto my roster?

CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
11/18/2018  2:24 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote: If you are going to call out Tim's contract as an over pay for his position you have to cite the other contracts for his position. If you consider the variable of signing a restricted free agent where you have to offer a deal that the controlling team wont match you have to consider that as well. Tim is far from an Allen Crabbe, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Johnson, Omar Asik type signing. He is producing at a rate where shooting guards get paid at least 17 mil.


I get where meloshouldgo is going with this. I appreciate his perspective. He's citing that THJr is acting as a professional. My take is a bit different, I'd say THJr acting as a professional and the desire to laud it says less about THJr and more about the general NBA culture.

Being a professional is your job. No one should get credit for what you are supposed to do anyway. But in the NBA, so many guys are entitled douchebags that players who are professionals get lauded for the contrast.

The Knicks have tried to trade THJr ( and pretty much everyone besides Zinger, Frank N, MRob and Knox) since the time they signed him. No one wants him. Not at his AAV/contract length plus bizarre trade kicker.

NO ONE WANTS HIM.

That's the end of the story. Wasn't hard to trade Robin Lopez was it? Because he was on a value contract and had the ability to help other teams.

If you don't think THJr's contract is ****, that's fine, you are entitled to your view. But against the actual NBA MARKETPLACE, he's a bad contract. No one wants it, which should tell you something.

Everyone has a right to their view. But if you were in a functional NBA front office and tried to justify THJr's contract, they'd just fire you. Classically, as the story goes, an NBA intern tried to impress his front office by openly talking about how the max deal Joe Johnson got from the Hawks was a good contract. He got rewarded by getting fired.

Single mother creates her first Plenty Of Fish or Match profile. "I'm successful, I have a good career, I'm attractive, I don't know why I'm alone"

Simple answer - You are not attractive.

Some Knicks fans say THJr is this, he's that, look at these other contracts

Simple answer - Knicks have tried to trade this dude since they signed him. If he was a true value, they wouldn't be trying to trade him. If he was the value some people want to push, other teams would want him.

If you are single and don't want to be single, good chance you are ugly. Talking about the other women you know who have relationships means nothing in this context.

If your team has been trying to trade you and they can't, good chance no other team sees the value in your production against your cost. Talking about other bad contracts means nothing in this context.

TJJr is like an ugly woman some of you are convinced is much prettier than in reality. If that was true, men would be lining up around the block. Do you see a line? Do you see a line of teams saying ****, I need to get THJr and his value contract onto my roster?

He is the 13th highest paid at his position. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/shooting-guard/
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

11/18/2018  4:05 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote: If you are going to call out Tim's contract as an over pay for his position you have to cite the other contracts for his position. If you consider the variable of signing a restricted free agent where you have to offer a deal that the controlling team wont match you have to consider that as well. Tim is far from an Allen Crabbe, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Johnson, Omar Asik type signing. He is producing at a rate where shooting guards get paid at least 17 mil.


I get where meloshouldgo is going with this. I appreciate his perspective. He's citing that THJr is acting as a professional. My take is a bit different, I'd say THJr acting as a professional and the desire to laud it says less about THJr and more about the general NBA culture.

Being a professional is your job. No one should get credit for what you are supposed to do anyway. But in the NBA, so many guys are entitled douchebags that players who are professionals get lauded for the contrast.

The Knicks have tried to trade THJr ( and pretty much everyone besides Zinger, Frank N, MRob and Knox) since the time they signed him. No one wants him. Not at his AAV/contract length plus bizarre trade kicker.

NO ONE WANTS HIM.

That's the end of the story. Wasn't hard to trade Robin Lopez was it? Because he was on a value contract and had the ability to help other teams.

If you don't think THJr's contract is ****, that's fine, you are entitled to your view. But against the actual NBA MARKETPLACE, he's a bad contract. No one wants it, which should tell you something.

Everyone has a right to their view. But if you were in a functional NBA front office and tried to justify THJr's contract, they'd just fire you. Classically, as the story goes, an NBA intern tried to impress his front office by openly talking about how the max deal Joe Johnson got from the Hawks was a good contract. He got rewarded by getting fired.

Single mother creates her first Plenty Of Fish or Match profile. "I'm successful, I have a good career, I'm attractive, I don't know why I'm alone"

Simple answer - You are not attractive.

Some Knicks fans say THJr is this, he's that, look at these other contracts

Simple answer - Knicks have tried to trade this dude since they signed him. If he was a true value, they wouldn't be trying to trade him. If he was the value some people want to push, other teams would want him.

If you are single and don't want to be single, good chance you are ugly. Talking about the other women you know who have relationships means nothing in this context.

If your team has been trying to trade you and they can't, good chance no other team sees the value in your production against your cost. Talking about other bad contracts means nothing in this context.

TJJr is like an ugly woman some of you are convinced is much prettier than in reality. If that was true, men would be lining up around the block. Do you see a line? Do you see a line of teams saying ****, I need to get THJr and his value contract onto my roster?

He is the 13th highest paid at his position. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/shooting-guard/

I am pretty sure his point is, no other team in the NBA thinks THJR is being paid what he is worth. Listing a bunch of people that may or may not be in the same boat and highlighting ones you don't personally like won't change that. Like I said, I would still trade him at the first opportunity. You don't pay people more than their worth because some other team was stupid enough to do it. By pushing this argument you are asking the Knicks to be stupid.

But back to THJR, he is doing what he can to help. His talent and skill level is not very high, he is not a high IQ player by any stretch of imagination and our FO ****ed up overpaying for him. But unlike one dimensional chuckers in our recent past he is NOT being a sulking jerk about it. He comes to play, supports his young teammates, tries to play second within his limitations and clearly wants to win. I will root for him to succeed, he has earned that from me.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
11/18/2018  4:13 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote: If you are going to call out Tim's contract as an over pay for his position you have to cite the other contracts for his position. If you consider the variable of signing a restricted free agent where you have to offer a deal that the controlling team wont match you have to consider that as well. Tim is far from an Allen Crabbe, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Johnson, Omar Asik type signing. He is producing at a rate where shooting guards get paid at least 17 mil.


I get where meloshouldgo is going with this. I appreciate his perspective. He's citing that THJr is acting as a professional. My take is a bit different, I'd say THJr acting as a professional and the desire to laud it says less about THJr and more about the general NBA culture.

Being a professional is your job. No one should get credit for what you are supposed to do anyway. But in the NBA, so many guys are entitled douchebags that players who are professionals get lauded for the contrast.

The Knicks have tried to trade THJr ( and pretty much everyone besides Zinger, Frank N, MRob and Knox) since the time they signed him. No one wants him. Not at his AAV/contract length plus bizarre trade kicker.

NO ONE WANTS HIM.

That's the end of the story. Wasn't hard to trade Robin Lopez was it? Because he was on a value contract and had the ability to help other teams.

If you don't think THJr's contract is ****, that's fine, you are entitled to your view. But against the actual NBA MARKETPLACE, he's a bad contract. No one wants it, which should tell you something.

Everyone has a right to their view. But if you were in a functional NBA front office and tried to justify THJr's contract, they'd just fire you. Classically, as the story goes, an NBA intern tried to impress his front office by openly talking about how the max deal Joe Johnson got from the Hawks was a good contract. He got rewarded by getting fired.

Single mother creates her first Plenty Of Fish or Match profile. "I'm successful, I have a good career, I'm attractive, I don't know why I'm alone"

Simple answer - You are not attractive.

Some Knicks fans say THJr is this, he's that, look at these other contracts

Simple answer - Knicks have tried to trade this dude since they signed him. If he was a true value, they wouldn't be trying to trade him. If he was the value some people want to push, other teams would want him.

If you are single and don't want to be single, good chance you are ugly. Talking about the other women you know who have relationships means nothing in this context.

If your team has been trying to trade you and they can't, good chance no other team sees the value in your production against your cost. Talking about other bad contracts means nothing in this context.

TJJr is like an ugly woman some of you are convinced is much prettier than in reality. If that was true, men would be lining up around the block. Do you see a line? Do you see a line of teams saying ****, I need to get THJr and his value contract onto my roster?

He is the 13th highest paid at his position. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/shooting-guard/

I am pretty sure his point is, no other team in the NBA thinks THJR is being paid what he is worth. Listing a bunch of people that may or may not be in the same boat and highlighting ones you don't personally like won't change that. Like I said, I would still trade him at the first opportunity. You don't pay people more than their worth because some other team was stupid enough to do it. By pushing this argument you are asking the Knicks to be stupid.

But back to THJR, he is doing what he can to help. His talent and skill level is not very high, he is not a high IQ player by any stretch of imagination and our FO ****ed up overpaying for him. But unlike one dimensional chuckers in our recent past he is NOT being a sulking jerk about it. He comes to play, supports his young teammates, tries to play second within his limitations and clearly wants to win. I will root for him to succeed, he has earned that from me.

I never said Tim was a value contract or that he is being sought after in trades. My point was that he is producing at a rate that justifies his contract. He also was a restricted free agent signing so the Knicks did have to over pay. If you look at the posted link he is in the middle range for pay for shooting guards.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
BigRedDog
Posts: 22118
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 1/23/2004
Member: #569
11/18/2018  4:25 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote: If you are going to call out Tim's contract as an over pay for his position you have to cite the other contracts for his position. If you consider the variable of signing a restricted free agent where you have to offer a deal that the controlling team wont match you have to consider that as well. Tim is far from an Allen Crabbe, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Johnson, Omar Asik type signing. He is producing at a rate where shooting guards get paid at least 17 mil.


I get where meloshouldgo is going with this. I appreciate his perspective. He's citing that THJr is acting as a professional. My take is a bit different, I'd say THJr acting as a professional and the desire to laud it says less about THJr and more about the general NBA culture.

Being a professional is your job. No one should get credit for what you are supposed to do anyway. But in the NBA, so many guys are entitled douchebags that players who are professionals get lauded for the contrast.

The Knicks have tried to trade THJr ( and pretty much everyone besides Zinger, Frank N, MRob and Knox) since the time they signed him. No one wants him. Not at his AAV/contract length plus bizarre trade kicker.

NO ONE WANTS HIM.

That's the end of the story. Wasn't hard to trade Robin Lopez was it? Because he was on a value contract and had the ability to help other teams.

If you don't think THJr's contract is ****, that's fine, you are entitled to your view. But against the actual NBA MARKETPLACE, he's a bad contract. No one wants it, which should tell you something.

Everyone has a right to their view. But if you were in a functional NBA front office and tried to justify THJr's contract, they'd just fire you. Classically, as the story goes, an NBA intern tried to impress his front office by openly talking about how the max deal Joe Johnson got from the Hawks was a good contract. He got rewarded by getting fired.

Single mother creates her first Plenty Of Fish or Match profile. "I'm successful, I have a good career, I'm attractive, I don't know why I'm alone"

Simple answer - You are not attractive.

Some Knicks fans say THJr is this, he's that, look at these other contracts

Simple answer - Knicks have tried to trade this dude since they signed him. If he was a true value, they wouldn't be trying to trade him. If he was the value some people want to push, other teams would want him.

If you are single and don't want to be single, good chance you are ugly. Talking about the other women you know who have relationships means nothing in this context.

If your team has been trying to trade you and they can't, good chance no other team sees the value in your production against your cost. Talking about other bad contracts means nothing in this context.

TJJr is like an ugly woman some of you are convinced is much prettier than in reality. If that was true, men would be lining up around the block. Do you see a line? Do you see a line of teams saying ****, I need to get THJr and his value contract onto my roster?

Where do you come up with this crap? Some more NFLfrontoficewannabeknowitallbull****?

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
TripleThreat
Posts: 23106
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/24/2012
Member: #3997

11/18/2018  5:57 PM
CrushAlot wrote:I never said Tim was a value contract or that he is being sought after in trades. My point was that he is producing at a rate that justifies his contract. He also was a restricted free agent signing so the Knicks did have to over pay. If you look at the posted link he is in the middle range for pay for shooting guards.


Your Opinion Versus The Actual NBA Marketplace ( Which would be roughly about 450 of the best and brightest minds who have spent their entire lives dedicated to this game)

Your opinion is that THJr justifies his contract. That's fine. I'll bang down on anyone's specific opinion if I disagree, I'll never bang down on their right to have one and state it.

If the actual NBA marketplace agreed with you, he'd already be traded off the roster. Except for his cost controlled rookies/young players, Perry has tried to trade everyone. It's not a huge secret in the league.

You are always free to your opinions. If you shared this one in an actual functional and competent NBA front office, they'd throw you out.

I appreciate that THJr is at least playing with real effort. Good for him. But how hard you try isn't going to change the dynamics of your contract against the entire marketplace given your actual production/value.

nykshaknbake
Posts: 22247
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2003
Member: #492
11/19/2018  8:22 AM
Right now he is producing fair value...the problem is when he slumps, he is far below that. Last season this was demonstrated clearly.
Nalod
Posts: 68482
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
11/19/2018  10:00 AM
Hardaway is not actively on the trading block, so how do we know if they lining up?
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
11/19/2018  10:03 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote: If you are going to call out Tim's contract as an over pay for his position you have to cite the other contracts for his position. If you consider the variable of signing a restricted free agent where you have to offer a deal that the controlling team wont match you have to consider that as well. Tim is far from an Allen Crabbe, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Johnson, Omar Asik type signing. He is producing at a rate where shooting guards get paid at least 17 mil.


I get where meloshouldgo is going with this. I appreciate his perspective. He's citing that THJr is acting as a professional. My take is a bit different, I'd say THJr acting as a professional and the desire to laud it says less about THJr and more about the general NBA culture.

Being a professional is your job. No one should get credit for what you are supposed to do anyway. But in the NBA, so many guys are entitled douchebags that players who are professionals get lauded for the contrast.

The Knicks have tried to trade THJr ( and pretty much everyone besides Zinger, Frank N, MRob and Knox) since the time they signed him. No one wants him. Not at his AAV/contract length plus bizarre trade kicker.

NO ONE WANTS HIM.

That's the end of the story. Wasn't hard to trade Robin Lopez was it? Because he was on a value contract and had the ability to help other teams.

If you don't think THJr's contract is ****, that's fine, you are entitled to your view. But against the actual NBA MARKETPLACE, he's a bad contract. No one wants it, which should tell you something.

Everyone has a right to their view. But if you were in a functional NBA front office and tried to justify THJr's contract, they'd just fire you. Classically, as the story goes, an NBA intern tried to impress his front office by openly talking about how the max deal Joe Johnson got from the Hawks was a good contract. He got rewarded by getting fired.

If your team has been trying to trade you and they can't, good chance no other team sees the value in your production against your cost. Talking about other bad contracts means nothing in this context.

TJJr is like an ugly woman some of you are convinced is much prettier than in reality. If that was true, men would be lining up around the block. Do you see a line? Do you see a line of teams saying ****, I need to get THJr and his value contract onto my roster?

meloshouldgo, the resident genius creates threads with the same singular purpose; MELO SUCKED, MELO STILL SUCKS, MELO WILL ALWAYS SUCK. He could spare us all alot of time and redundant reading by just creating the one thread and bumping it occasionally. Maybe with pictures of all the players he personally likes, who also happen to be players no other FO wants.

"MITCH ROB WILL BE IN THE HOF BEFORE THAT DOUCHE I WILL NO LONGER MENTION"

But more to the point, gee whiz, wasn't it difficult trading away the DOUCHE? And we didn't even have to use some 1st round draft pick pasties to dress up the DOUCHE and his TRULY RIDICULOUS CONTRACT. We just had to take back two No D bench fodder pieces.

Here's the mirror test in action:
If Me70 got lit up regularly on defense, especially during the last second of some games where he's been scoring, would we be reading about "supporting teammates, at least trying, playing with heart, mmmuah mmmuah mmmuah I even love how dumb he appears to be..."

Net/net, I'm just glad we have someone on the team who can score with some sort of regularity. No matter what THJr's getting paid. Personally, I don't GAF about Dolan's money.

arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
11/19/2018  10:18 AM
Tim is filling the void.
He is the only one qualified NBA starter we have until KP is back.
So he is in great position to play long minutes in primary scorer role.
He get a winning lottery ticket.
And looks like he or someone who advising him (prob his farther) trying to take a full advantage of the opportunity.
If we need him to be included in trade and we will get any interest he is gone.
But I doubt we will get anything of value... unless the NBA idiots (and there are plenty) will give us some lucky ticket TJR already have.
His contract is perfectly in our development window and changes nothing.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
11/19/2018  10:20 AM
jrodmc wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote: If you are going to call out Tim's contract as an over pay for his position you have to cite the other contracts for his position. If you consider the variable of signing a restricted free agent where you have to offer a deal that the controlling team wont match you have to consider that as well. Tim is far from an Allen Crabbe, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Johnson, Omar Asik type signing. He is producing at a rate where shooting guards get paid at least 17 mil.


I get where meloshouldgo is going with this. I appreciate his perspective. He's citing that THJr is acting as a professional. My take is a bit different, I'd say THJr acting as a professional and the desire to laud it says less about THJr and more about the general NBA culture.

Being a professional is your job. No one should get credit for what you are supposed to do anyway. But in the NBA, so many guys are entitled douchebags that players who are professionals get lauded for the contrast.

The Knicks have tried to trade THJr ( and pretty much everyone besides Zinger, Frank N, MRob and Knox) since the time they signed him. No one wants him. Not at his AAV/contract length plus bizarre trade kicker.

NO ONE WANTS HIM.

That's the end of the story. Wasn't hard to trade Robin Lopez was it? Because he was on a value contract and had the ability to help other teams.

If you don't think THJr's contract is ****, that's fine, you are entitled to your view. But against the actual NBA MARKETPLACE, he's a bad contract. No one wants it, which should tell you something.

Everyone has a right to their view. But if you were in a functional NBA front office and tried to justify THJr's contract, they'd just fire you. Classically, as the story goes, an NBA intern tried to impress his front office by openly talking about how the max deal Joe Johnson got from the Hawks was a good contract. He got rewarded by getting fired.

If your team has been trying to trade you and they can't, good chance no other team sees the value in your production against your cost. Talking about other bad contracts means nothing in this context.

TJJr is like an ugly woman some of you are convinced is much prettier than in reality. If that was true, men would be lining up around the block. Do you see a line? Do you see a line of teams saying ****, I need to get THJr and his value contract onto my roster?

meloshouldgo, the resident genius creates threads with the same singular purpose; MELO SUCKED, MELO STILL SUCKS, MELO WILL ALWAYS SUCK. He could spare us all alot of time and redundant reading by just creating the one thread and bumping it occasionally. Maybe with pictures of all the players he personally likes, who also happen to be players no other FO wants.

"MITCH ROB WILL BE IN THE HOF BEFORE THAT DOUCHE I WILL NO LONGER MENTION"

But more to the point, gee whiz, wasn't it difficult trading away the DOUCHE? And we didn't even have to use some 1st round draft pick pasties to dress up the DOUCHE and his TRULY RIDICULOUS CONTRACT. We just had to take back two No D bench fodder pieces.

Here's the mirror test in action:
If Me70 got lit up regularly on defense, especially during the last second of some games where he's been scoring, would we be reading about "supporting teammates, at least trying, playing with heart, mmmuah mmmuah mmmuah I even love how dumb he appears to be..."

Net/net, I'm just glad we have someone on the team who can score with some sort of regularity. No matter what THJr's getting paid. Personally, I don't GAF about Dolan's money.

meloshouldgo has Melo in his name but you have Melo in your brain.
He is gone and forgotten. Why to bring this closet skeleton back into Knicks land?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Chandler
Posts: 25959
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197

11/19/2018  11:01 AM
Putting aside the contract issue for a moment, I like THJ for all the positive reasons mentioned above.

I have a nagging suspicion that Mills re-signed him (even before he had a GM) as an ego statement (knife twist to Phil). So how THJ plays out is a big reflection on Mills

I would have also loved to see him reunited with Budenholzer.


Regarding his contract, I can't really say. It's at least a relief that it's not one of those mega-flop contracts (Noah) that we are notorious for

(5)(5)
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
11/19/2018  11:48 AM
arkrud wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote: If you are going to call out Tim's contract as an over pay for his position you have to cite the other contracts for his position. If you consider the variable of signing a restricted free agent where you have to offer a deal that the controlling team wont match you have to consider that as well. Tim is far from an Allen Crabbe, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Johnson, Omar Asik type signing. He is producing at a rate where shooting guards get paid at least 17 mil.


I get where meloshouldgo is going with this. I appreciate his perspective. He's citing that THJr is acting as a professional. My take is a bit different, I'd say THJr acting as a professional and the desire to laud it says less about THJr and more about the general NBA culture.

Being a professional is your job. No one should get credit for what you are supposed to do anyway. But in the NBA, so many guys are entitled douchebags that players who are professionals get lauded for the contrast.

The Knicks have tried to trade THJr ( and pretty much everyone besides Zinger, Frank N, MRob and Knox) since the time they signed him. No one wants him. Not at his AAV/contract length plus bizarre trade kicker.

NO ONE WANTS HIM.

That's the end of the story. Wasn't hard to trade Robin Lopez was it? Because he was on a value contract and had the ability to help other teams.

If you don't think THJr's contract is ****, that's fine, you are entitled to your view. But against the actual NBA MARKETPLACE, he's a bad contract. No one wants it, which should tell you something.

Everyone has a right to their view. But if you were in a functional NBA front office and tried to justify THJr's contract, they'd just fire you. Classically, as the story goes, an NBA intern tried to impress his front office by openly talking about how the max deal Joe Johnson got from the Hawks was a good contract. He got rewarded by getting fired.

If your team has been trying to trade you and they can't, good chance no other team sees the value in your production against your cost. Talking about other bad contracts means nothing in this context.

TJJr is like an ugly woman some of you are convinced is much prettier than in reality. If that was true, men would be lining up around the block. Do you see a line? Do you see a line of teams saying ****, I need to get THJr and his value contract onto my roster?

meloshouldgo, the resident genius creates threads with the same singular purpose; MELO SUCKED, MELO STILL SUCKS, MELO WILL ALWAYS SUCK. He could spare us all alot of time and redundant reading by just creating the one thread and bumping it occasionally. Maybe with pictures of all the players he personally likes, who also happen to be players no other FO wants.

"MITCH ROB WILL BE IN THE HOF BEFORE THAT DOUCHE I WILL NO LONGER MENTION"

But more to the point, gee whiz, wasn't it difficult trading away the DOUCHE? And we didn't even have to use some 1st round draft pick pasties to dress up the DOUCHE and his TRULY RIDICULOUS CONTRACT. We just had to take back two No D bench fodder pieces.

Here's the mirror test in action:
If Me70 got lit up regularly on defense, especially during the last second of some games where he's been scoring, would we be reading about "supporting teammates, at least trying, playing with heart, mmmuah mmmuah mmmuah I even love how dumb he appears to be..."

Net/net, I'm just glad we have someone on the team who can score with some sort of regularity. No matter what THJr's getting paid. Personally, I don't GAF about Dolan's money.

meloshouldgo has Melo in his name but you have Melo in your brain.
He is gone and forgotten. Why to bring this closet skeleton back into Knicks land?


My question exactly. Just don't know why you're asking me.

Its a huge upgrade from what we were used to over the last few years.

But unlike one dimensional chuckers in our recent past he is NOT being a sulking jerk about it.
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

11/21/2018  10:08 AM
jrodmc wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
CrushAlot wrote: If you are going to call out Tim's contract as an over pay for his position you have to cite the other contracts for his position. If you consider the variable of signing a restricted free agent where you have to offer a deal that the controlling team wont match you have to consider that as well. Tim is far from an Allen Crabbe, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Johnson, Omar Asik type signing. He is producing at a rate where shooting guards get paid at least 17 mil.


I get where meloshouldgo is going with this. I appreciate his perspective. He's citing that THJr is acting as a professional. My take is a bit different, I'd say THJr acting as a professional and the desire to laud it says less about THJr and more about the general NBA culture.

Being a professional is your job. No one should get credit for what you are supposed to do anyway. But in the NBA, so many guys are entitled douchebags that players who are professionals get lauded for the contrast.

The Knicks have tried to trade THJr ( and pretty much everyone besides Zinger, Frank N, MRob and Knox) since the time they signed him. No one wants him. Not at his AAV/contract length plus bizarre trade kicker.

NO ONE WANTS HIM.

That's the end of the story. Wasn't hard to trade Robin Lopez was it? Because he was on a value contract and had the ability to help other teams.

If you don't think THJr's contract is ****, that's fine, you are entitled to your view. But against the actual NBA MARKETPLACE, he's a bad contract. No one wants it, which should tell you something.

Everyone has a right to their view. But if you were in a functional NBA front office and tried to justify THJr's contract, they'd just fire you. Classically, as the story goes, an NBA intern tried to impress his front office by openly talking about how the max deal Joe Johnson got from the Hawks was a good contract. He got rewarded by getting fired.

If your team has been trying to trade you and they can't, good chance no other team sees the value in your production against your cost. Talking about other bad contracts means nothing in this context.

TJJr is like an ugly woman some of you are convinced is much prettier than in reality. If that was true, men would be lining up around the block. Do you see a line? Do you see a line of teams saying ****, I need to get THJr and his value contract onto my roster?

meloshouldgo, the resident genius creates threads with the same singular purpose; MELO SUCKED, MELO STILL SUCKS, MELO WILL ALWAYS SUCK. He could spare us all alot of time and redundant reading by just creating the one thread and bumping it occasionally. Maybe with pictures of all the players he personally likes, who also happen to be players no other FO wants.

"MITCH ROB WILL BE IN THE HOF BEFORE THAT DOUCHE I WILL NO LONGER MENTION"

But more to the point, gee whiz, wasn't it difficult trading away the DOUCHE? And we didn't even have to use some 1st round draft pick pasties to dress up the DOUCHE and his TRULY RIDICULOUS CONTRACT. We just had to take back two No D bench fodder pieces.

Here's the mirror test in action:
If Me70 got lit up regularly on defense, especially during the last second of some games where he's been scoring, would we be reading about "supporting teammates, at least trying, playing with heart, mmmuah mmmuah mmmuah I even love how dumb he appears to be..."

Net/net, I'm just glad we have someone on the team who can score with some sort of regularity. No matter what THJr's getting paid. Personally, I don't GAF about Dolan's money.

Hadn't seen this before, LOL. If you don't want to read what I post, don't read it? Someone holding a gun to your head Einstein?
My post was about THJR not about Melo. But yeah I absolutely appreciate him doing things Melo flat out refused to do. Probably even more so because of it. Your endless hard on for Melo makes you take things personally, sucks to be you Einstein. Your posts are about af interesting and thoughtful as Melo's game. I can see the connection..😂😂

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
My THJR appreciation thread

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy