BigDaddyG wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Welpee wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Welpee wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Mudiay has 14 combined assists and 7 TOs over the last 5 games where he supposedly "broke out" as PG. He also has a net +/- of -9 over the same period.
The narrative people are pushing here trying to make this about Frank and his shortcomings is still the same old agenda driven bull****.
Mudiay is scrub, who plays little or no defense, he pushes the ball and commits turnovers as often as he converts fast breaks.
Starting PG my ass.

And yes giving him minutes forces Frank to play out of position and makes it twice as hard on him. This year should have been about developing the youth, clearly some fans are too enamored with inconsistent scorers to give a **** about that.

Eraserboy can't make up his mind about the validity of +/-. Only uses it as a valid measure when it suits him. Why is this about Mudiay vs Frank. Thought you were a Knick fan first and not a hater troll looking to prove his meaningless opinion is true. (Sarcasm)
Fact is Knick fans should be happy about ALL our players playing well.
Mudiay is one. Frank is a good player and will get better. But not a better PG than Mudiay right now. But ok, if you want to make about them, what exactly was Franks +/- last night? Assists? If this is a defensive outcry for defensive players, as you claim, why not complain about guys that are better statistically on defense than Frank? Ie. Dotson. Fact is we held the Grizzlies to 19 pts in the third and made a nice run without Frank. But you won't mention that.

Btw, have more stats showing Mudiay is playing well. Just for you.

https://youtu.be/INm_GCs7CiM

I told you the Mudiay haters would do that, drop some stats to discredit his recent play.

Since Ben Simmons, Chris Paul, KAT, and James Harden have a negative +/- for the season so far that must mean they suck too?

Number of assists and turnovers for a starting PG is too complicated a statistic for you? Oh wait I am a Mudiay hater because I wasn't ot PG to do something other than scoring. SMDH

Well, I referenced the +/- thing. But since you mentioned his assist/turnover ratio during this stretch, 2:1 is basically close to what Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook and Damion Lillard are posting. And let me preemptively say I'm not comparing Mudiay to those players, I'm saying if you're trying to portray a 2:1 ratio as being poor then there are a bunch of all-star level point guards who are also poor in that category as well. SMDH

When you take usage and TOV % into account, the only one of those players who are worse at turning the ball over is Westbrook. Even still, you have to take into account that Westbrook usually has had insane usage ratea from year to year. That said, I won't hold it against Mudiay that much. The fact he has shown enough improvement to be considered an NBA rotation player is good. His career was at a crossroads. Hopefully he continues to leading our youth development endeavors while continuing to improve. I don't want him to improve this much this season. It could mean the difference between Zion Williamson or Rui Hachimura.

He specifically referenced +/- and his assist versus turnovers. You can selectively cherry pick stats to discredit or praise just about any player based on who you want to prop up or trash.

On a different matter, personally I'm not on board with the tanking program some in this forum are in love with. But that horse has been beaten to death.

Stats can be massaged. But you're going to raise eyebrows anytime you mention Mudiay in the same as breath as Curry, Westbrook and Irving. I'm not really on board with using +/- as a stand alone stat, because there are so many other factors involved with that metric. It's a long season and Mudiay is playing better. Let's hope all of our young guards show growth.

And you're right about +/-. Definitely not a stat that consistently depict how well or poorly an individual player is performing.

knicks1248 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Mudiay has 14 combined assists and 7 TOs over the last 5 games where he supposedly "broke out" as PG. He also has a net +/- of -9 over the same period.
The narrative people are pushing here trying to make this about Frank and his shortcomings is still the same old agenda driven bull****.
Mudiay is scrub, who plays little or no defense, he pushes the ball and commits turnovers as often as he converts fast breaks.
Starting PG my ass.

And yes giving him minutes forces Frank to play out of position and makes it twice as hard on him. This year should have been about developing the youth, clearly some fans are too enamored with inconsistent scorers to give a **** about that.

So the knicks coaching staff should only focus on getting frank better or just the players they drafted. Everybody else can kick rocks?

Pretty soon your'e going to hate fiz because he thinks they very opposite of how you think, he's a huge mudiay fan, a huge THJ fan, and in the last few games, he has cut back on franks and knox minutes to 15 per, (all on the negative side of plus/-)...the results have been very positive for the team

You think if frank and knox was playing well he would do that, he put those guys in the starting line up and gave them every opportunity to secure that role and they failed to impress, or even be avg, They played terrible.

Now that he's leaning more on mudiay, Kanter and burke, who clearly out played frank, knox and mitch...... aaaannnd we're winning some games..you think he should go back to teenagers and play himself

You talk about Mudiay and Burke like they're finish products, those guys have just taking their game up another level as oppose to Frank Knox who are a couple yrs away...

Let's get this straight, most of Frank's time in the starting lineup was at SF. Which was a stupid way to help him build his confidence.
And yes we invested our most valuable currency which is our draft picks on the youth and we brought Fiz in to develop that youth. That is the PRIMARY OBJECTIVE of a REBUILD. Trying to build up journeymen scrubs no one in the NBA wanted, for a three game winning streak during a season that won't lead to anything is exactly what he wasn't supposed to be doing. We have had enough fukking no defense chuckers in our history to have learned that lesson by now. But we have whole entire bandwagons of fans who justify playing time based on points scored even for PGs and don't even look at assist numbers, turnovers and God forbid defense.

There is a very small (and getting smaller by the game)percentage of ppl that think frank is a PG. A kid who does absolutely nothing that resembles a NBA pg.

A kid who has taking 6 FT in the last 20 nba games, and has penetrated even less, a kid that has played over a 100 NBA games and have failed to score 20 points in any of those games, a kid who was giving the green light to fire at will and still take 2 shots, a kid who comes down court and gives up the ball in 3 seconds flat, and runs to the corner, a kid who is on pace to have the worst shooting percentage than any guard in KNICKS HISTORY (heard breen say this the other night).

You belong in a all white rubber room for thinking that Mudiay and burke are not wanted by other teams, was that what 30 other GMS told you.

must be killing you to see us winning with those guys.

trust me when i tell you, Frank is currently on the path of both mudiay and trey.

The Rainman........Redundant word salad.

meloshouldgo wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Mudiay has 14 combined assists and 7 TOs over the last 5 games where he supposedly "broke out" as PG. He also has a net +/- of -9 over the same period.
The narrative people are pushing here trying to make this about Frank and his shortcomings is still the same old agenda driven bull****.
Mudiay is scrub, who plays little or no defense, he pushes the ball and commits turnovers as often as he converts fast breaks.
Starting PG my ass.

And yes giving him minutes forces Frank to play out of position and makes it twice as hard on him. This year should have been about developing the youth, clearly some fans are too enamored with inconsistent scorers to give a **** about that.

So the knicks coaching staff should only focus on getting frank better or just the players they drafted. Everybody else can kick rocks?

Pretty soon your'e going to hate fiz because he thinks they very opposite of how you think, he's a huge mudiay fan, a huge THJ fan, and in the last few games, he has cut back on franks and knox minutes to 15 per, (all on the negative side of plus/-)...the results have been very positive for the team

You think if frank and knox was playing well he would do that, he put those guys in the starting line up and gave them every opportunity to secure that role and they failed to impress, or even be avg, They played terrible.

Now that he's leaning more on mudiay, Kanter and burke, who clearly out played frank, knox and mitch...... aaaannnd we're winning some games..you think he should go back to teenagers and play himself

You talk about Mudiay and Burke like they're finish products, those guys have just taking their game up another level as oppose to Frank Knox who are a couple yrs away...

Let's get this straight, most of Frank's time in the starting lineup was at SF. Which was a stupid way to help him build his confidence.
And yes we invested our most valuable currency which is our draft picks on the youth and we brought Fiz in to develop that youth. That is the PRIMARY OBJECTIVE of a REBUILD. Trying to build up journeymen scrubs no one in the NBA wanted, for a three game winning streak during a season that won't lead to anything is exactly what he wasn't supposed to be doing. We have had enough fukking no defense chuckers in our history to have learned that lesson by now. But we have whole entire bandwagons of fans who justify playing time based on points scored even for PGs and don't even look at assist numbers, turnovers and God forbid defense.

While I'm on the develop the youth train. I feel there is no set way to develop players. Everyone develops differently. Frank after his first 2 games as a starting PG did not look good at all. It's then up to Fizz to judge Frank's personality and character and decide if he is actually growing through this trial and error or if he is losing confidence and regressing because there is much on his plate.

One thing I'm confident of is Frank is gonna put in the work to improve his game. So If he isn't ready yet mentally to take on these challenges today he will get there eventually. Still a long season left to go. I would like to see Fizz give Frank some designed plays though and build him up step by step.

Knicks have been winning so of course Mudiays having success will be highlighted and promoted. If Knicks were losing these games then things would probably be viewed differently.

Herzonia has been horrible but he has been getting starts. Fizz rotation seems to be based off experimenting.

Welpee wrote:Why is it that Mudiay gets so much scrutiny yet it seems like Hezonja is getting a pass? The guy is from the same draft class (in fact drafted ahead of him), he's slightly older than Mudiay, but no 1,000 word dissertations about why he sucks, why he'll always suck, and why we are idiots for thinking he could ever amount to anything. No stats, no essays, nada.

Because he isn't a threat to unlimited unconditional minutes for Frank.

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:https://gothamsn.com/impatience-be-damned-emmanuel-mudiays-development-is-right-on-time-1c4b845eb1d8

Thanks for posting this Crush!! Very good article....The following stood out to me:
Our collective problem as “talent analysts” is that we’re far too capricious from a game to game perspective yet make seemingly unalterable, long term opinions on young players. The truth is players can change and so should our opinions. We shouldn’t make declarative statements on changing variables that are out of our control. Emphatically stating someone is a bust before they’re 23 years old won’t necessarily make you right, but it will make you an *******.

knicks1248 wrote:I think he reminds me of a frank, like you don't know what position to play him at.

Gawd you're a little obsessed aren't you?

CrushAlot wrote:https://gothamsn.com/impatience-be-damned-emmanuel-mudiays-development-is-right-on-time-1c4b845eb1d8

This part got me because that's exactly how I thought this summer...Mudiay isn't social media savvy that much is clear..
We live in a world that is spellbound by Instagram clips and YouTube highlight compilations of one-and-dones, AAU ballers and international phenoms. We base our assessments solely on what we see, not taking into consideration what may happen behind the scenes. Mudiay often chose to do his working out behind closed doors last summer and was rarely featured in Knicks social media posts. We’ve often pondered if a tree falls in the forest and no one’s around to hear it, did it even make a sound? Well, if a NBA player practices over the summer and doesn’t drop highlights from his session on Instagram or Twitter, did he even practice at all?

Juliano wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I think he reminds me of a frank, like you don't know what position to play him at.

Gawd you're a little obsessed aren't you?

ok, so your saying that fiz has got their positions all figured out..

Do you watch the post game interviews, every single game some reporter asks him the same question about those 2, and he comes back with the same answer (we're just trying to figure it out).

You don't here them say that about any other players except those 2 euro guys.

You dont see fiz trying mudiay at sf, or thj at pg, or kanter at pf, or knox at 2g, or trey at sf, or mitch at sf, but you have him trying to play mario and frank at every position trying to figure out whats best.

If it was that easy, mario would still be in orlando, and frank would be our starter

knicks1248 wrote:ok, so your saying that fiz has got their positions all figured out..

Do you watch the post game interviews, every single game some reporter asks him the same question about those 2, and he comes back with the same answer (we're just trying to figure it out).

You don't here them say that about any other players except those 2 euro guys.

You dont see fiz trying mudiay at sf, or thj at pg, or kanter at pf, or knox at 2g, or trey at sf, or mitch at sf, but you have him trying to play mario and frank at every position trying to figure out whats best.

If it was that easy, mario would still be in orlando, and frank would be our starter

Not saying anything besides you quoted a post which argued that people are more eager to give Hezonja a pass compared to Mudiay, yet you still managed to write about Frank. That seemed a bit obsessive to me.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/MikeVorkunov/status/1067477708786016257