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Trade proposal w/ATL
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TMS
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9/17/2004  9:33 AM
KT, Sweetney, Moochie & $3 million for Al Harrington & Tony Delk

C - Baker / Nazr
PF - Harrington / JYD
SF - TT / Penny / Shandon
SG - Houston / Crawford
PG - Marbury / Delk / Bremer
IR - Ariza / Sundov

do you guys think ATL would do it?
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Marv
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9/17/2004  9:36 AM
Posted by TMS:

KT, Sweetney, Moochie & $3 million for Al Harrington & Tony Delk

C - Baker / Nazr
PF - Harrington / JYD
SF - TT / Penny / Shandon
SG - Houston / Crawford
PG - Marbury / Delk / Bremer
IR - Ariza / Sundov

do you guys think ATL would do it?

I hope not. Harrington at PF? We're going to have no rebounding with that lineup.
martin
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9/17/2004  9:38 AM
Forget Atlanta, I don't think the Knicks would do it.
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TMS
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9/17/2004  9:45 AM
Posted by Marv:

Harrington at PF? We're going to have no rebounding with that lineup.

true, but the roster is alot more athletic w/Harrington & JYD logging the minutes at PF...& i think Harrington is a budding star who's alot more developed in his game than Sweetney is...both Harrington & JYD are excellent defenders as well, & can be interchanged between the PF & SF spots...i think this gives Lenny Wilkens a very versatile roster w/which to run a more uptempo style game...w/the addition of Crawford to go w/the addition of Harrington, the Knicks would really be well suited for that type of game.
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TMS
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9/17/2004  9:54 AM
Posted by martin:

Forget Atlanta, I don't think the Knicks would do it.

i think Isiah would do that in a heartbeat...he absolutely loves Al Harrington, & he's been trying to unload Kurt Thomas & Moochie Norris to everyone this offseason w/no luck...i think he'd be willing to part with Sweetney to get Harrington & get rid of KT & the Mooch...i also think Tony Delk would fit in well w/an uptempo style game as well, because he can really shoot the ball from the perimeter & he's alot more athletic than Moochie is.
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BigSm00th
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9/17/2004  10:02 AM
The Knicks most tradeable asset is Sweetney, I'd demand the Hawks take on Shandon.

I don't really like Al Harrington's game, but he's from Dirty Jerz and wants to be a Knick. I'd want to see him play first but it's an arguably good move.
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crzymdups
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9/17/2004  10:09 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by martin:

Forget Atlanta, I don't think the Knicks would do it.

i think Isiah would do that in a heartbeat...he absolutely loves Al Harrington, & he's been trying to unload Kurt Thomas & Moochie Norris to everyone this offseason w/no luck...i think he'd be willing to part with Sweetney to get Harrington & get rid of KT & the Mooch...i also think Tony Delk would fit in well w/an uptempo style game as well, because he can really shoot the ball from the perimeter & he's alot more athletic than Moochie is.

Why would Atlanta trade one of their two big off-season acquistions for an unproven rookie? Say what you will about Al being unproven, he has put up 42 points in a game and was up for sixth man of the year each of the past two years. If Al was a free agent, he'd get more money than Jamal Crawford. There's no way they'd give him away for an aging PF, a young fat, short PF and a waste of a contract.

I think Sweetney has low value around the league at this point because he hasn't done enough. He has far more value here with his hustle and energy and rebounding. At the end or even middle of this year, Sweetney's value will be much higher. If we trade him at all, we should wait.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 09/17/2004 10:12:58]
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Bonn1997
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9/17/2004  10:15 AM
Posted by martin:

Forget Atlanta, I don't think the Knicks would do it.
I HOPE the Knicks don't do it. I'd rather have a combo of Sweetney and Kurt than Al Harrington and I have no interest in Tony Delk
TMS
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9/17/2004  10:30 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Why would Atlanta trade one of their two big off-season acquistions for an unproven rookie? Say what you will about Al being unproven, he has put up 42 points in a game and was up for sixth man of the year each of the past two years. If Al was a free agent, he'd get more money than Jamal Crawford. There's no way they'd give him away for an aging PF, a young fat, short PF and a waste of a contract.

I think Sweetney has low value around the league at this point because he hasn't done enough. He has far more value here with his hustle and energy and rebounding. At the end or even middle of this year, Sweetney's value will be much higher. If we trade him at all, we should wait.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 09/17/2004 10:12:58]

here's my thought...they have a bunch of young swing men players on their team, as well as Antoine Walker, who plays more like a SF than a PF...if they could add 2 more physical players like KT & Sweetney, it would help them balance out their roster & get them some size upfront that they are currently lacking...plus, they save money by taking Moochie & the cash over Tony Delk, who has 2 years left on his deal.

C - Drobnjak / Collier
PF - KT / Sweetney / Crawford
SF - Walker / Childress / J. Smith
SG - Diaw / Barry
PG - Anderson / Moochie
IR - Ivey / D. Smith

that team's not any better than 1 w/Harrington & Delk, but it guarantees them that they will get some production at the PF position w/o having to shell out big bucks later on down the line when Harrington becomes a FA...& it gives the young guys a shot to compete for the SF position, as i see KT logging plenty of minutes at the C position in that rotation w/Walker & Sweetney manning the PF...if Harrington were there, he & Walker would take up just about all the minutes at PF & SF, & they'd have to deal w/Drobnjak as their primary starting C for most of the season.

you have a point about trading Sweetney when his value is higher...this is a trade that might make better sense at the trade deadline when ATL is clearly out of contention & Sweetney has had a chance to show more of what he can do to increase his trade value...but i still think Isiah would give up ALOT to get Al Harrington.
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TMS
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9/17/2004  10:32 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by martin:

Forget Atlanta, I don't think the Knicks would do it.
I HOPE the Knicks don't do it. I'd rather have a combo of Sweetney and Kurt than Al Harrington and I have no interest in Tony Delk

Tony Delk is alot better option off the bench than Moochie bro...& Harrington has shown glimpses of becoming a star player someday...Sweetney brings nice intangibles & he can rebound w/the best of them, but he's nowhere near as polished a player as Harrington is imho...KT is just dead weight on this team as far as i'm concerned...he has no place in the future of this franchise, so i have no problem in dealing him away if we can get a young player w/the upside of Harrington.
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MS
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9/17/2004  10:45 AM
I would not do that deal if i was the knicks, the real deal should be moving both TT & KT, but can't happen unfortunatley

Every fool that loves TT, should be kicked off the site honestly you don't win with people like that, heart and desire are so important in players that takes average talent and makes it into a superstar. You think that Kobe and Jordan were the two most talented players in the world what sets them apart is their willingness to do whatever it takes to get better

Bird, Malone, supreme talents nope, but two of the hardest workers you ever going to meet. Bird has less athletic ability than more then half of the people on this planet and yet he is one of the greatest players of all time, because he knew his strengths, shooting, leadership, and knowing the game.

Defense is important, rebounding is important. So find a combination and try to ship, TT, KT and a Pick for Harrington.

Baker/Naz
Sweetney/JYD
Harrington/Penny
Houston/Crawford
Marbury/Crawford

There is your rotation. You have great front court D, scorers and rebounders, and guards who can learn defense. I would have much rather have AL than crawford
crzymdups
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9/17/2004  11:18 AM
Posted by TMS:

that team's not any better than 1 w/Harrington & Delk, but it guarantees them that they will get some production at the PF position w/o having to shell out big bucks later on down the line when Harrington becomes a FA...& it gives the young guys a shot to compete for the SF position, as i see KT logging plenty of minutes at the C position in that rotation w/Walker & Sweetney manning the PF...if Harrington were there, he & Walker would take up just about all the minutes at PF & SF, & they'd have to deal w/Drobnjak as their primary starting C for most of the season.

you have a point about trading Sweetney when his value is higher...this is a trade that might make better sense at the trade deadline when ATL is clearly out of contention & Sweetney has had a chance to show more of what he can do to increase his trade value...but i still think Isiah would give up ALOT to get Al Harrington.

I agree that Isiah would love to get Al, but that's because ANYONE who's watched that kid know's he has star potential. The thing you have to realize is that Atlanta is TRYING to rebuild and Al Harrington is their best young player at this point. Asking them to trade him for no kind of draft pick or anything is silly.

I think they'd be much more likely to trade Walker, but obviously as an expiring deal he's doubly valuable.
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TMS
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9/17/2004  11:18 AM
hey, if you could use TT in a trade to get Al Harrington, where do i sign up? i just don't see ATL taking on that much salary...TT just makes too much $
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bernard
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9/17/2004  12:09 PM
Am with you on Fugazy -- I hope he proves us wrong, but until he does, got to suspect TT's ability to be a winner.

But that old saw about Bird not having athletic ability is ridiculous. Ture, Larry couldn't run or jump, but he was one of the best coordinated big men ever ... had tremendous timing and was incredibly strong. White guy from Indianna, gym rat, blah, blah, blah. Guy was an athlete, just not in the way that's typical in the NBA. You don't learn to shoot like that just from practicing. You don't learn court vision like he had just from playing a lot. Got to have some extraordinary talent as well. I'm not at all convinced that he worked harder than other NBA players. In fact, remember him dissing Bernard's game because he said Bernard worked too hard. (I know, this was Larry's way of praising w/ faint criticism, but you get the point.) Also, all this comes from a guy who grew up hating Bird when he consistently led Celtics over Knicks and gave all my Boston friends too much to talk about.
Posted by MS:

I would not do that deal if i was the knicks, the real deal should be moving both TT & KT, but can't happen unfortunatley

Every fool that loves TT, should be kicked off the site honestly you don't win with people like that, heart and desire are so important in players that takes average talent and makes it into a superstar. You think that Kobe and Jordan were the two most talented players in the world what sets them apart is their willingness to do whatever it takes to get better

Bird, Malone, supreme talents nope, but two of the hardest workers you ever going to meet. Bird has less athletic ability than more then half of the people on this planet and yet he is one of the greatest players of all time, because he knew his strengths, shooting, leadership, and knowing the game.

Defense is important, rebounding is important. So find a combination and try to ship, TT, KT and a Pick for Harrington.

Baker/Naz
Sweetney/JYD
Harrington/Penny
Houston/Crawford
Marbury/Crawford

There is your rotation. You have great front court D, scorers and rebounders, and guards who can learn defense. I would have much rather have AL than crawford
diderotn
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9/17/2004  12:31 PM
This righthere is a hell of an argument. I love Harrington's game, and I like TT also. However, Atlanta will not do this deal. Sweetney, Kurt, and Anderson for Harrington and Delk sounds really good.
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Kwazimodal
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9/17/2004  2:51 PM
Sweetney might turn into a solid role player for the next 7 or more years for the Knicks.Id like to see if that is the case before he is traded.Finding good,young,reliable,role players isnt as easy as some make it out to be.Lets find out if he is one of them before shipping him off,like someone said his value isnt that high right now anyway.
TMS
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9/17/2004  2:55 PM
you would pass up on a chance to get Al Harrington (for argument's sake) just because you think Sweetney might turn into a solid role player for the next 7 or more years for the Knicks? i'm having a hard time understanding that line of logic, but whatever...this was just for discussion since nothing else was going on lately.
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Kwazimodal
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9/17/2004  3:37 PM
Posted by TMS:

you would pass up on a chance to get Al Harrington (for argument's sake) just because you think Sweetney might turn into a solid role player for the next 7 or more years for the Knicks? i'm having a hard time understanding that line of logic, but whatever...this was just for discussion since nothing else was going on lately.

Not a bad trade,just think we are jumping the gun.Harrington's contract is about to expire,he is going to want a big payday.If we wait half a season we might find that Sweetney puts up around the same numbers and he would be alot cheaper.I also like the fact that Sweetney isnt the type of guy to make a big stink about minutes like Harrington did.Moochie will have value as a trade pawn after this season as will a few other Knicks like Penny and Houston.Id rather use them on addressing other needs like at center.I dont think it will take too long to figure out if Sweetney has a future with this team.

Like I said,not a bad trade but it might be a bit premature.
TMS
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9/17/2004  3:49 PM
i think ATL would be the ones to hedge on that deal if anything for the same reasons you outlined above...Sweetney could be a cheap alternative to having Al Harrington making big dollars when he turns FA...that's why i think they might be open to trading him...but of course, like you & others have pointed out, i think Sweetney will have to show more development in his game for ATL to be open to this deal, which is why i suggested it's a deal that might make more sense at the trade deadline...

as for Moochie having value as a trade pawn next year, Tony Delk's contract is just about the same, & he's a better player that more teams will want on their roster...so that only helps the Knicks...the cash considerations are what may entice another team to take Moochie off our hands, since they would be basically getting him for free this season...the Knicks have shown that they are perfectly willing to give up the $3 million to get Moochie off the roster...i think Isiah would welcome a role player like Delk who can shoot & offer an instant scoring spark off the bench in limited minutes, something Moochie could not be relied upon to do.
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Bonn1997
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9/17/2004  3:54 PM
Posted by TMS:

you would pass up on a chance to get Al Harrington (for argument's sake) just because you think Sweetney might turn into a solid role player for the next 7 or more years for the Knicks? i'm having a hard time understanding that line of logic, but whatever...this was just for discussion since nothing else was going on lately.
Are you completely convinced that Al Harrington has more potential than Sweetney? Sweetney has a very powerful body and a bigger wing span. I could see Sweetney being a better rebounder and low-poster defender. He also has great footwork; so he may develop a better low-post game than Al Harrington. I don't think he'll ever be as quick as Harrington, though.
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