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Fiz, Mudiay will eventually get a chance to start at point guard
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CrushAlot
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11/1/2018  4:03 PM
jrodmc wrote:Where the hell is Tony Wroten, anyway...?
Sounds like he is out of basketball. He is still only 25.
On October 21, 2017, Wroten was selected by the Rio Grande Valley Vipers in Round 2 with the 23rd pick in the 2017 NBA Development League Draft.[26] On March 21, 2018, he was waived by the Vipers.[27]
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
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fishmike
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11/2/2018  10:00 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Marv wrote:^ the power of youtube to cherrypick a guy's highlights.
So in other words, disregard anything promising the guy does just focus on everything negative?

I think YouTube videos with cool music and a guy not missing a shot can infuence objectivity. Briggs was big on posting videos claiming to have “discovered a player” then post the video as if he had produced it. This happens to all of us too.

Agree. Youtube videos are not indicative of a players true standing. Everyone, I think, knows that. But so is the statement that a 22 year old former first round Pro has nothing he does well.

I am not a Mudiay fan or believer, but you are 100% right. This notion that he's got nothing is silly. I dont expect Mudiay here past this year but he penetrates and passes and gets the basket, even if he isnt the best finisher. He's got some skills worth seeing with other players who WILL be here longer term. Its that simple. Mudiay is a type. Is there a better PG prospect we should be investing in?
GustavBahler
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11/2/2018  10:57 AM
Believe highlight clips have value depending on the editing, as part of the picture. If its 20 minutes of dunks over a grating soundtrack, no not really.

Some are edited to show a player's versatility, with enough examples to show a splash play wasnt a one off. All depends who is doing the editing. There are also top notch reviews, scouting of players that turn out to be on the money. Not all youtube clips are created equal.

Nalod
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11/2/2018  11:20 AM
GustavBahler wrote:Believe highlight clips have value depending on the editing, as part of the picture. If its 20 minutes of dunks over a grating soundtrack, no not really.

Some are edited to show a player's versatility, with enough examples to show a splash play wasnt a one off. All depends who is doing the editing. There are also top notch reviews, scouting of players that turn out to be on the money. Not all youtube clips are created equal.

Very true. My impression over the years is Briggs would post them. Briggs had Cred at one time. Others would watch it and then jump on that bandwagon. Some Videos are good, some are crap. After seemingly endless "discoveries" it gets old. I like some of the breakdowns. Most of us don't know how to break down film. Its fun to see some of it when done well.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
GustavBahler
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11/2/2018  12:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/2/2018  12:46 PM
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Believe highlight clips have value depending on the editing, as part of the picture. If its 20 minutes of dunks over a grating soundtrack, no not really.

Some are edited to show a player's versatility, with enough examples to show a splash play wasnt a one off. All depends who is doing the editing. There are also top notch reviews, scouting of players that turn out to be on the money. Not all youtube clips are created equal.

Very true. My impression over the years is Briggs would post them. Briggs had Cred at one time. Others would watch it and then jump on that bandwagon. Some Videos are good, some are crap. After seemingly endless "discoveries" it gets old. I like some of the breakdowns. Most of us don't know how to break down film. Its fun to see some of it when done well.

Dont know Briggs, Guessing what he told us about how he earns a living, that his line of work can get very manic. That seemed to gradually spill over onto this board. Spilled over into his politics as well. Absorbing info on the fly, without really thinking them through IMO. It felt more stress driven, than deep seeded anger. Doesnt make it right, makes me more understanding. Not saying those he's also offended, should feel the same way.

Wish we could have instituted a "Briggs rule" No politics, anywhere, no "locker room talk". Would make it a lot easier for guys like Briggs (or Playa) no pool to dip their foot in.

Briggs still knows the game, needs to be a better editor. Gives the players he singles out more of an impact. Got to the point where it was like playing every number on a roulette table. Sorry Briggs!

knicks1248
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11/2/2018  12:42 PM
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Marv wrote:^ the power of youtube to cherrypick a guy's highlights.
So in other words, disregard anything promising the guy does just focus on everything negative?

I think YouTube videos with cool music and a guy not missing a shot can infuence objectivity. Briggs was big on posting videos claiming to have “discovered a player” then post the video as if he had produced it. This happens to all of us too.

Agree. Youtube videos are not indicative of a players true standing. Everyone, I think, knows that. But so is the statement that a 22 year old former first round Pro has nothing he does well.

I am not a Mudiay fan or believer, but you are 100% right. This notion that he's got nothing is silly. I dont expect Mudiay here past this year but he penetrates and passes and gets the basket, even if he isnt the best finisher. He's got some skills worth seeing with other players who WILL be here longer term. Its that simple. Mudiay is a type. Is there a better PG prospect we should be investing in?

Well I definitely agree, I'm not not even sure why some would rather see baker than Mudiay

ES
Knickoftime
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11/2/2018  12:45 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Marv wrote:^ the power of youtube to cherrypick a guy's highlights.
So in other words, disregard anything promising the guy does just focus on everything negative?

I think YouTube videos with cool music and a guy not missing a shot can infuence objectivity. Briggs was big on posting videos claiming to have “discovered a player” then post the video as if he had produced it. This happens to all of us too.

Agree. Youtube videos are not indicative of a players true standing. Everyone, I think, knows that. But so is the statement that a 22 year old former first round Pro has nothing he does well.

I am not a Mudiay fan or believer, but you are 100% right. This notion that he's got nothing is silly. I dont expect Mudiay here past this year but he penetrates and passes and gets the basket, even if he isnt the best finisher. He's got some skills worth seeing with other players who WILL be here longer term. Its that simple. Mudiay is a type. Is there a better PG prospect we should be investing in?

Well I definitely agree, I'm not not even sure why some would rather see baker than Mudiay

Well, I think there is likely a better chance Baker's 3-ball starts dropping than Mudiay stops falling to the floor.

Knickoftime
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11/2/2018  12:45 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Believe highlight clips have value depending on the editing, as part of the picture. If its 20 minutes of dunks over a grating soundtrack, no not really.

Some are edited to show a player's versatility, with enough examples to show a splash play wasnt a one off. All depends who is doing the editing. There are also top notch reviews, scouting of players that turn out to be on the money. Not all youtube clips are created equal.

Very true. My impression over the years is Briggs would post them. Briggs had Cred at one time. Others would watch it and then jump on that bandwagon. Some Videos are good, some are crap. After seemingly endless "discoveries" it gets old. I like some of the breakdowns. Most of us don't know how to break down film. Its fun to see some of it when done well.

Dont know Briggs, Guessing what he told us about how he earns a living, that his line of work can get very manic. That seemed to gradually spill over onto this board. Spilled over into his politics as well. Absorbing info on the fly, without really thinking them through IMO. It felt more stress driven, than deep seated anger. Doesnt make it right, makes me more understanding. Not saying those he's also offended, should feel the same way.

Wish we could have instituted a "Briggs rule" No politics, anywhere, no "locker room talk". Would make it a lot easier for guys like Briggs (or Playa) no pool to dip their foot in.

Briggs still knows the game, needs to be a better editor. Gives the players he singles out more of an impact. Got to the point where it was like playing every number on a roulette table. Sorry Briggs!

Reminded of the saying that has gotten a lot of attention that last 3 years.

When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

knicks1248
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11/2/2018  1:57 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Marv wrote:^ the power of youtube to cherrypick a guy's highlights.
So in other words, disregard anything promising the guy does just focus on everything negative?

I think YouTube videos with cool music and a guy not missing a shot can infuence objectivity. Briggs was big on posting videos claiming to have “discovered a player” then post the video as if he had produced it. This happens to all of us too.

Agree. Youtube videos are not indicative of a players true standing. Everyone, I think, knows that. But so is the statement that a 22 year old former first round Pro has nothing he does well.

I am not a Mudiay fan or believer, but you are 100% right. This notion that he's got nothing is silly. I dont expect Mudiay here past this year but he penetrates and passes and gets the basket, even if he isnt the best finisher. He's got some skills worth seeing with other players who WILL be here longer term. Its that simple. Mudiay is a type. Is there a better PG prospect we should be investing in?

Well I definitely agree, I'm not not even sure why some would rather see baker than Mudiay

Well, I think there is likely a better chance Baker's 3-ball starts dropping than Mudiay stops falling to the floor.

I highly doubt that, bakers not even remotely thought of as a future part of the knicks

ES
Chandler
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11/2/2018  1:58 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Believe highlight clips have value depending on the editing, as part of the picture. If its 20 minutes of dunks over a grating soundtrack, no not really.

Some are edited to show a player's versatility, with enough examples to show a splash play wasnt a one off. All depends who is doing the editing. There are also top notch reviews, scouting of players that turn out to be on the money. Not all youtube clips are created equal.

Very true. My impression over the years is Briggs would post them. Briggs had Cred at one time. Others would watch it and then jump on that bandwagon. Some Videos are good, some are crap. After seemingly endless "discoveries" it gets old. I like some of the breakdowns. Most of us don't know how to break down film. Its fun to see some of it when done well.

Dont know Briggs, Guessing what he told us about how he earns a living, that his line of work can get very manic. That seemed to gradually spill over onto this board. Spilled over into his politics as well. Absorbing info on the fly, without really thinking them through IMO. It felt more stress driven, than deep seeded anger. Doesnt make it right, makes me more understanding. Not saying those he's also offended, should feel the same way.

Wish we could have instituted a "Briggs rule" No politics, anywhere, no "locker room talk". Would make it a lot easier for guys like Briggs (or Playa) no pool to dip their foot in.

Briggs still knows the game, needs to be a better editor. Gives the players he singles out more of an impact. Got to the point where it was like playing every number on a roulette table. Sorry Briggs!

Briggs in sports and politics was interested in saying the outlandish and provocative to get attention. Wily better than KP. We should dump tons of money on Crabbe and Seth Curry. on and on.

He was entertaining at times and less so at others (won't bring up the politics). I have no reason to doubt he has good traits but fessing up to mistakes wasn't his forte'

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
Knickoftime
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11/2/2018  2:07 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/2/2018  2:44 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Marv wrote:^ the power of youtube to cherrypick a guy's highlights.
So in other words, disregard anything promising the guy does just focus on everything negative?

I think YouTube videos with cool music and a guy not missing a shot can infuence objectivity. Briggs was big on posting videos claiming to have “discovered a player” then post the video as if he had produced it. This happens to all of us too.

Agree. Youtube videos are not indicative of a players true standing. Everyone, I think, knows that. But so is the statement that a 22 year old former first round Pro has nothing he does well.

I am not a Mudiay fan or believer, but you are 100% right. This notion that he's got nothing is silly. I dont expect Mudiay here past this year but he penetrates and passes and gets the basket, even if he isnt the best finisher. He's got some skills worth seeing with other players who WILL be here longer term. Its that simple. Mudiay is a type. Is there a better PG prospect we should be investing in?

Well I definitely agree, I'm not not even sure why some would rather see baker than Mudiay

Well, I think there is likely a better chance Baker's 3-ball starts dropping than Mudiay stops falling to the floor.

I highly doubt that, bakers not even remotely thought of as a future part of the knicks

And I doubt Mudiay is either. He's a 2019 cap hold that won't survive the purge like Baker. If anything, Knicks may look at him as an expiring they can maybe flip to a team needing a back-up PG for a 2nd rounder.

Baker on the other hand might just be a 15th man locker room type moving forward.

As YOU are the one arguing for some roster continuity, they may seen Baker as a guy that can come back on a minimum deal next year when they're already over the cap, provide some locker room continuity, play some hard d now and then. The heir apparent to Thomas at a cap neutral cost.

I'm ALL about giving young players years to develop. The flopping thing, however, goes beyond a jumpshot that needs to get better.

That's written into his DNA. I'm extremely bearish on that correcting itself substantially, and it has to for him to be viable.

Knickoftime
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11/2/2018  2:09 PM
Chandler wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Believe highlight clips have value depending on the editing, as part of the picture. If its 20 minutes of dunks over a grating soundtrack, no not really.

Some are edited to show a player's versatility, with enough examples to show a splash play wasnt a one off. All depends who is doing the editing. There are also top notch reviews, scouting of players that turn out to be on the money. Not all youtube clips are created equal.

Very true. My impression over the years is Briggs would post them. Briggs had Cred at one time. Others would watch it and then jump on that bandwagon. Some Videos are good, some are crap. After seemingly endless "discoveries" it gets old. I like some of the breakdowns. Most of us don't know how to break down film. Its fun to see some of it when done well.

Dont know Briggs, Guessing what he told us about how he earns a living, that his line of work can get very manic. That seemed to gradually spill over onto this board. Spilled over into his politics as well. Absorbing info on the fly, without really thinking them through IMO. It felt more stress driven, than deep seeded anger. Doesnt make it right, makes me more understanding. Not saying those he's also offended, should feel the same way.

Wish we could have instituted a "Briggs rule" No politics, anywhere, no "locker room talk". Would make it a lot easier for guys like Briggs (or Playa) no pool to dip their foot in.

Briggs still knows the game, needs to be a better editor. Gives the players he singles out more of an impact. Got to the point where it was like playing every number on a roulette table. Sorry Briggs!

Briggs in sports and politics was interested in saying the outlandish and provocative to get attention.

As someone who exchanged posts with him extensively on issues some mischaracterize as "politics," I can tell you the things he advocated wasn't for effect.

He believes it all.

Cartman718
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11/2/2018  8:05 PM
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Welpee
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11/2/2018  11:17 PM
Marv wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Welpee wrote:
Marv wrote:^ the power of youtube to cherrypick a guy's highlights.
So in other words, disregard anything promising the guy does just focus on everything negative?

I think YouTube videos with cool music and a guy not missing a shot can infuence objectivity. Briggs was big on posting videos claiming to have “discovered a player” then post the video as if he had produced it. This happens to all of us too.

I don't think anybody said take a nine minute youtube video and evaluate a player based solely on highlights. However, it indicates the guy has some ability, unless you just want to pretend what he displayed never happened.

I think this is all about context. Yeah he can make these plays. And also yeah, teams have been giving him fewer and fewer minutes in his career, he's never displayed growth or even consistency and he was given away in his 3rd year - a 6'5" lottery pick point guard. So the key question to me isn't what CAN he do - it's WHY can't he do it consistently and build on it and why did he convince a team to cut their losses already with him? If we can't figure that out and decide if it's something we can address then he's gonna continue on a downward trend, wouldn't you say, regardless of what he does occasionally enough to merit his 9 minutes of youtube glory?
I don't disagree with anything you said. All I'm saying is the guy has some talent and the youtube video isn't some mirage. Talent and production are two different discussions. There may be a ton of reasons why he hasn't been productive. But he has talent. And just because you have talent doesn't mean you can be a top player in the league. I'm just disputing people talking like the guy is G-league player.
nykshaknbake
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11/3/2018  1:30 AM
Vmart wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Vmart wrote:Not a fan of anyone getting a shot at pg. It’s Franks and no one should interfere with his development.

Based on what I have seen from Mudiay, I have to agree. The more we experiment the less these guys develop into their roles. But I also think everyone deserves a shot. So not really sure how I feel about this overall.

This how you also destroy careers that are promising all in the name of chance. Mudiay got his shot when he was in Denver. It didn’t happen for him then and it 99% won’t happen for him here. Now is Fizz willing to lose Frank for this so called chance for Mudiay. Absolutely would be a dumb move by Fizz.

You got your best player on the floor playing his position already why f around for shyts and giggles.

How would we lose Frank? Not starting for a few games would destroy his career? Let em show us what they got, and the best Point guard win.

CrushAlot
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11/3/2018  7:22 AM
nykshaknbake wrote:
Vmart wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Vmart wrote:Not a fan of anyone getting a shot at pg. It’s Franks and no one should interfere with his development.

Based on what I have seen from Mudiay, I have to agree. The more we experiment the less these guys develop into their roles. But I also think everyone deserves a shot. So not really sure how I feel about this overall.

This how you also destroy careers that are promising all in the name of chance. Mudiay got his shot when he was in Denver. It didn’t happen for him then and it 99% won’t happen for him here. Now is Fizz willing to lose Frank for this so called chance for Mudiay. Absolutely would be a dumb move by Fizz.

You got your best player on the floor playing his position already why f around for shyts and giggles.

How would we lose Frank? Not starting for a few games would destroy his career? Let em show us what they got, and the best Point guard win.

This. I think there is a chance the Knicks lose Burke though. I feel like Trier is better when he isn't paired with Burke.
Mudiay looked great last night. I didn't think he would play like an NBA player ever again.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
Jmpasq
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11/3/2018  8:40 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/3/2018  8:41 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
Vmart wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Vmart wrote:Not a fan of anyone getting a shot at pg. It’s Franks and no one should interfere with his development.

Based on what I have seen from Mudiay, I have to agree. The more we experiment the less these guys develop into their roles. But I also think everyone deserves a shot. So not really sure how I feel about this overall.

This how you also destroy careers that are promising all in the name of chance. Mudiay got his shot when he was in Denver. It didn’t happen for him then and it 99% won’t happen for him here. Now is Fizz willing to lose Frank for this so called chance for Mudiay. Absolutely would be a dumb move by Fizz.

You got your best player on the floor playing his position already why f around for shyts and giggles.

How would we lose Frank? Not starting for a few games would destroy his career? Let em show us what they got, and the best Point guard win.

This. I think there is a chance the Knicks lose Burke though. I feel like Trier is better when he isn't paired with Burke.
Mudiay looked great last night. I didn't think he would play like an NBA player ever again.

We should look to move Burke and sign Trier to a Mitchell Robinson deal. Trier's size over Burke makes him a much better instant offense spark off the bench. He has been far more efficient. If we can get a 2nd for Burke we could use it to flip Lee this off-season

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
knicks1248
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11/3/2018  9:22 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
Vmart wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Vmart wrote:Not a fan of anyone getting a shot at pg. It’s Franks and no one should interfere with his development.

Based on what I have seen from Mudiay, I have to agree. The more we experiment the less these guys develop into their roles. But I also think everyone deserves a shot. So not really sure how I feel about this overall.

This how you also destroy careers that are promising all in the name of chance. Mudiay got his shot when he was in Denver. It didn’t happen for him then and it 99% won’t happen for him here. Now is Fizz willing to lose Frank for this so called chance for Mudiay. Absolutely would be a dumb move by Fizz.

You got your best player on the floor playing his position already why f around for shyts and giggles.

How would we lose Frank? Not starting for a few games would destroy his career? Let em show us what they got, and the best Point guard win.

This. I think there is a chance the Knicks lose Burke though. I feel like Trier is better when he isn't paired with Burke.
Mudiay looked great last night. I didn't think he would play like an NBA player ever again.

We should look to move Burke and sign Trier to a Mitchell Robinson deal. Trier's size over Burke makes him a much better instant offense spark off the bench. He has been far more efficient. If we can get a 2nd for Burke we could use it to flip Lee this off-season

Burke, frank, Trier, those guys think too much when they're in PG mode, and throw passes that leave the player in ISO mode.

Mudiay's passes or on point both in transition and a half court set. The fact none of them have really out played the other, it's way too earlier to think about trading any of them.

ES
Ira
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11/3/2018  9:40 AM
Mudiay had a good game last night. He looked better on d than I remember. I have to give Fiz credit for the effort everyone gives on d. I haven't seen that since Van Gundy was the coach.
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11/3/2018  10:55 AM
I have been down on Mudiay since before we got him. Last night he made me look foolish. Being a knick fan i'm more interested in team success than my being right. I hope he can string some of these good outings together and stay under control with his shot -- which is one thing i noticed last night. No dribble in the paint, start to dribble out, and then some weird turn around off balance thing. Keep it going E!
DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
Fiz, Mudiay will eventually get a chance to start at point guard

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