[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

ode to Enes
Author Thread
martin
Posts: 48403
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
11/5/2018  4:15 PM
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
AUTOADVERT
arkrud
Posts: 31617
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
11/5/2018  4:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/5/2018  4:46 PM
martin wrote:

He is 0-summ player at best. This is not gonna change.
Team which needs a center to come from the bench to fill the void and some situational help will value him.
But he is not a piece for the team with contending inspirations to count on.
All thing considering... time window, value, NBA trends, coaching style of Fiz, a direction of the Knicks he is the last season with the team.
If useful trade for any reason will not come earlier he is our cap space. That's about it.
So why spend any valuable development time for Mitch and even Von for his minutes?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
HofstraBBall
Posts: 23145
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

11/5/2018  5:51 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/5/2018  5:53 PM
martin wrote:

I hate stats. Specially when used by so called NBA guys so as to have something to say. Jonathan needs to do some more research. Kanter is ranked 13th in the league and 1st on Knicks in RPG. Pretty good for a guy coming off the bench. A more telling stat as to Kanters overall contribution on the floor would be his PIE. Which is currently a team high at 15.9. Yet he chioses a negative spin by comparing the teams rebounding percentages on vs off the floor?

"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
arkrud
Posts: 31617
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
11/5/2018  6:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/5/2018  6:08 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:

I hate stats. Specially when used by so called NBA guys so as to have something to say. Jonathan needs to do some more research. Kanter is ranked 13th in the league and 1st on Knicks in RPG. Pretty good for a guy coming off the bench. A more telling stat as to Kanters overall contribution on the floor would be his PIE. Which is currently a team high at 15.9. Yet he chioses a negative spin by comparing the teams rebounding percentages on vs off the floor?

His "spin" matching the eye test and end result very close.
Rebounding and scoring from the post and around the basket is 2 Kanter strengths, but this is his only use at all.
It is smart to do just what you do best, smart for player stats, but unfortunately this not enough to add value in modern days NBA team.
For this player have to be versatile first and on top of this do some things very good.
Let alone Kanter defense which is... well... embarrassing.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
BigDaddyG
Posts: 26657
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049

11/5/2018  7:01 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:

I hate stats. Specially when used by so called NBA guys so as to have something to say. Jonathan needs to do some more research. Kanter is ranked 13th in the league and 1st on Knicks in RPG. Pretty good for a guy coming off the bench. A more telling stat as to Kanters overall contribution on the floor would be his PIE. Which is currently a team high at 15.9. Yet he chioses a negative spin by comparing the teams rebounding percentages on vs off the floor?


I agree, to a point. Sometimes these stats are just noise. You also have to look at earlier seasons, look at various rosters and wait for a larger sample siz. We have weaker rebounding second unit overall, at least, by my eyes. That said, Kanter is now playing the role he's best suited for.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
HofstraBBall
Posts: 23145
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

11/5/2018  7:24 PM
arkrud wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:

I hate stats. Specially when used by so called NBA guys so as to have something to say. Jonathan needs to do some more research. Kanter is ranked 13th in the league and 1st on Knicks in RPG. Pretty good for a guy coming off the bench. A more telling stat as to Kanters overall contribution on the floor would be his PIE. Which is currently a team high at 15.9. Yet he chioses a negative spin by comparing the teams rebounding percentages on vs off the floor?

His "spin" matching the eye test and end result very close.
Rebounding and scoring from the post and around the basket is 2 Kanter strengths, but this is his only use at all.
It is smart to do just what you do best, smart for player stats, but unfortunately this not enough to add value in modern days NBA team.
For this player have to be versatile first and on top of this do some things very good.
Let alone Kanter defense which is... well... embarrassing.

Did you read the other stats posted? And are you saying the Knicks signed Kanter for somethnig other than his reounding and post scoring? 3pt shooting? Did you expect more from him?
Btw. Kanters Defensive Rating is 111.8. Frank, who is an excellent defender 110.1. Not exactly a trmendous difference.

My point, which is not to bring up even more obscure advanced stats, was that you can come up with a negative advanced stat on just about anyone in the NBA. If you want to focus on the negatives. Like most unrealistic fans and sports bloggers like to do. Kanter is a very good low post player, rebounder and energy guy. He is not a great defender. To bring up a 1.6% eam shooting deficiencywhen he is on the floor and ignoring being 13th in rebounding seems a bit of a miss.

"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
HofstraBBall
Posts: 23145
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

11/5/2018  7:26 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
martin wrote:

I hate stats. Specially when used by so called NBA guys so as to have something to say. Jonathan needs to do some more research. Kanter is ranked 13th in the league and 1st on Knicks in RPG. Pretty good for a guy coming off the bench. A more telling stat as to Kanters overall contribution on the floor would be his PIE. Which is currently a team high at 15.9. Yet he chioses a negative spin by comparing the teams rebounding percentages on vs off the floor?


I agree, to a point. Sometimes these stats are just noise. You also have to look at earlier seasons, look at various rosters and wait for a larger sample siz. We have weaker rebounding second unit overall, at least, by my eyes. That said, Kanter is now playing the role he's best suited for.

Agree. Any statistic has more validity over a larger period of time.

"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
Jmpasq
Posts: 23837
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/10/2012
Member: #4182

11/5/2018  7:42 PM
Rasheed was awesome I wish we had someone like Wallace or Webber to play with Sprewell and Houston
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Welpee
Posts: 22207
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

11/6/2018  12:00 AM
Noah Vonleh is 1st on the team in defensive rating and 2nd on the team in offensive rating. So I guess that means he's our best player, right?
Ira
Posts: 24575
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/14/2001
Member: #91
11/6/2018  7:44 AM
Vonleh was a good signing, but let's not get carried away.
Nalod
Posts: 57420
Alba Posts: 151
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
11/6/2018  7:51 AM
Jmpasq wrote:Rasheed was awesome I wish we had someone like Wallace or Webber to play with Sprewell and Houston

when Toby Knight blew his knee out I was very upset.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
TPercy
Posts: 24913
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/5/2014
Member: #5748

11/6/2018  12:32 PM
martin wrote:

Bit too small a sample no?

The Future is Bright!
Nalod
Posts: 57420
Alba Posts: 151
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
11/6/2018  1:10 PM
Enes puts up good stats on losing games. What else do I need to know? Is he part of the future? I don't think so.
Is he tradable? Are other teams lining up for him? Even with an expiring?
I like the guy. I dig his effort.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
GustavBahler
Posts: 35655
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

11/6/2018  1:22 PM
Nalod wrote:Enes puts up good stats on losing games. What else do I need to know? Is he part of the future? I don't think so.
Is he tradable? Are other teams lining up for him? Even with an expiring?
I like the guy. I dig his effort.

I dont blame you. Kanter puts up great numbers, but he cant put the team on his back every night and singlehandedly win the game. Elite rebounding, post play, respectable D, an improved passing game is overrated. Kanter could crap ice cream, and some of you would complain its the wrong flavor.

arkrud
Posts: 31617
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
11/6/2018  1:59 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Enes puts up good stats on losing games. What else do I need to know? Is he part of the future? I don't think so.
Is he tradable? Are other teams lining up for him? Even with an expiring?
I like the guy. I dig his effort.

I dont blame you. Kanter puts up great numbers, but he cant put the team on his back every night and singlehandedly win the game. Elite rebounding, post play, respectable D, an improved passing game is overrated. Kanter could crap ice cream, and some of you would complain its the wrong flavor.

He is perfect for us this season to come from the bench.
Plays hard, shows our young players how not to play defense, does not hurt the tank.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Welpee
Posts: 22207
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

11/6/2018  3:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/6/2018  3:29 PM
Ira wrote:Vonleh was a good signing, but let's not get carried away.
I'm not saying it, the "advanced stats" are saying it (if you believe in them).
HofstraBBall
Posts: 23145
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

11/6/2018  4:15 PM
"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
HofstraBBall
Posts: 23145
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192

11/6/2018  4:34 PM
Nalod wrote:Enes puts up good stats on losing games. What else do I need to know? Is he part of the future? I don't think so.
Is he tradable? Are other teams lining up for him? Even with an expiring?
I like the guy. I dig his effort.

Interesting point about the future. Problem some miss about the "Future" is that it may only apply to a couple of years from now. Specially in the NBA. So yes, think Kanter should be part of the future, if resigned for a reasonable price. If we are talking past two years from now, think you can make a case that every player on the roster can be questioned as a valid piece for the future. Unless most think we should bank our long term future on unproven 19 year olds. Think when you have guys like Kanter, probably the only real pro on floor last night, fans are quick to toss them aside for some other unreal possibility or young gamble. Cant think of better options that may be available at the 5? Not saying Kanter is the next Ewing but the kid has post talent and can rebound his ass off. Something I remember Knick fans saying we needed before he arrived.

"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
fishmike
Posts: 49055
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
11/7/2018  9:20 AM
I am already sick of watching Enes give up shot after shot. He plays hard and dominates inferior players. Whenever he has to deal with quality he abused. See Pacers. Kanter's history speaks for itself.
arkrud
Posts: 31617
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
11/7/2018  9:31 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:Enes puts up good stats on losing games. What else do I need to know? Is he part of the future? I don't think so.
Is he tradable? Are other teams lining up for him? Even with an expiring?
I like the guy. I dig his effort.

Interesting point about the future. Problem some miss about the "Future" is that it may only apply to a couple of years from now. Specially in the NBA. So yes, think Kanter should be part of the future, if resigned for a reasonable price. If we are talking past two years from now, think you can make a case that every player on the roster can be questioned as a valid piece for the future. Unless most think we should bank our long term future on unproven 19 year olds. Think when you have guys like Kanter, probably the only real pro on floor last night, fans are quick to toss them aside for some other unreal possibility or young gamble. Cant think of better options that may be available at the 5? Not saying Kanter is the next Ewing but the kid has post talent and can rebound his ass off. Something I remember Knick fans saying we needed before he arrived.

The price is the key. What is it?
And this is to be determined by the market.
So there is nothing to worry about.
If Kanter will get offer we cannot beat because of money needed for perspective FA signing he is gone.
If market will be soft he may stay.
He can also decide to leave if some bad team will promise him to start. But this is a tricky business.
Probability is high that he will not be around next season so why take minutes away for those who will be and need to develop?
Enes know the drill already so it is up to him and his agent to make a decision.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
ode to Enes

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.