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re-treads thus far (i.e., way too early) in the season
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Chandler
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10/22/2018  9:59 AM
Mudiay -- ugh
Hejonja -- seems coordinated but clueless and clutchless and defenseless
Vonleh -- so far very pleasantly surprised.
Burke -- mixed feelings. see some good things (e.g., seems to work well with THJ and Kanter) and some real bad ones too (over dribbling)
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CrushAlot
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10/22/2018  10:14 AM
I wonder if Mario's minutes go up with Knox out. Fiz has been going defense first but both Frank and Baker played a lot less the last game. Only one game so there is obviously no trend but there is a need for offense and there are more minutes now. Dotson looked great so those minutes may not go to Mario.
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SupremeCommander
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10/22/2018  10:14 AM
yeah, it's way too early to tell, but if we hit on one of these guys it would be getting a free winning lotto ticket. I think Vonleh so far is the most likely to become that... a Tristan Thompson type. Trey has been okay but I mean he needs to be better. He's small and we all know that can get exploited eaily in the NBA. He needs to have Isaiah Thomas type of impact to offset the fact that any elite guard will shred him up in key situations.
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Nalod
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10/22/2018  10:19 AM
I agree its early and Fiz has to play around with matchups. With Mitchel and Knox nursing ankles and CLee still out there are things to play with.
Glad to see Dotson got his chance and more importantly made good on it.
Lee with get into the rotation. When Vets fail they are good to sit. Rule of the jungle.
Free agent like Mario if true took a short term deal to get a chance to play and perhaps increase his value. 3 games in Im not seeing this.
SupremeCommander
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10/22/2018  10:21 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/22/2018  10:21 AM
Nalod wrote:I agree its early and Fiz has to play around with matchups. With Mitchel and Knox nursing ankles and CLee still out there are things to play with.
Glad to see Dotson got his chance and more importantly made good on it.
Lee with get into the rotation. When Vets fail they are good to sit. Rule of the jungle.
Free agent like Mario if true took a short term deal to get a chance to play and perhaps increase his value. 3 games in Im not seeing this.

I'll be more concerned if that's still the case on Christmas with Mario. He's a shooter joining a new team that's implementing a new system... I think a little bit of time will help here

Sambakick wrote: Gives a whole new meaning to "Jazz Hands"
technomaster
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10/22/2018  12:59 PM
I remember we used to say Dougie McBuckets would come around... that he was too good to be that non-productive. I fear Hezonja is the same sort of player.

Mudiay. Not sure what's up.

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franco12
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10/22/2018  1:38 PM
technomaster wrote:I remember we used to say Dougie McBuckets would come around... that he was too good to be that non-productive. I fear Hezonja is the same sort of player.

Mudiay. Not sure what's up.

I think I've been as big a defender of Mudiay as anyone - but what did he do over the summer?

I still think he might stick in this league. But he should have hired a trainer, lost weight/added strength and fixed his shot.

Maybe he did that - I don't know. But not seeing any evidence of this.

Hezonja better be careful, still have hope for him, but he could be out of the league soon!

CrushAlot
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10/22/2018  4:25 PM
franco12 wrote:
technomaster wrote:I remember we used to say Dougie McBuckets would come around... that he was too good to be that non-productive. I fear Hezonja is the same sort of player.

Mudiay. Not sure what's up.

I think I've been as big a defender of Mudiay as anyone - but what did he do over the summer?

I still think he might stick in this league. But he should have hired a trainer, lost weight/added strength and fixed his shot.

Maybe he did that - I don't know. But not seeing any evidence of this.

Hezonja better be careful, still have hope for him, but he could be out of the league soon!

I thought they reported that Mudiay lost 15 lbs. At different times during training camp/preseason both guys were getting praised for their performance in practice. Fiz spoke about Mario after shoot around today.
We're rebuilding him mentally," Fizdale said after the Knicks' morning shoot around Monday at Fiserv Forum."You see how I am: If you’re playing well, that’s who I play at the time," Fizdale said. "If you’re not, you don’t play in the late game. The last game, that’s what it was with him. But if he plays well tonight, he may be finishing the game for us. Especially with Kevin [Knox] out. We need Mario.""Some days he’s just spectacular, some days he has lapses," Fizdale said. "But that’s OK. That’s again, having a coach that’ll show it to him over and over again to break old habits and then to build new habits. That’s where we have a patient, long game with that kind of stuff."

https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2018/10/22/new-york-knicks-now-time-mario-hezonja-step-up-knox-out/1729492002/
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Chandler
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10/22/2018  4:33 PM
Beasley
D. Williams
Jimmer
Anthony Randolph (ouch)

hoping you can revitalize a lottery-type player that another professional organization failed on is very risky business

fingers crossed as usual but it seems teams do better finding underappreciated talent and developing that (see Miami, or perhaps us with Trier or Mitch) than in the IMO hubris that we can succeed where the other organization failed even thoug hit had all the incentive in the world to develop Hezonja, Mudiay, Burke, etc. (if for no other reason than to save face in the drafting process)

there are exceptions of course, but every minute mudiay or hezonja is out there one of our young guys isn't. AND if we are successful with the retread we'll be rewarded with a bigger contract demand (perhaps with a thank you discount). On the other hand, if we used those minutes to develop Frank or Dotson etc we have more control on contract situation at least in the near term

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Jmpasq
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10/22/2018  8:37 PM
I'll make it real easy for everybody, they all will be gone next year. I thought Burke would stick but I think Trier takes his spot
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Panos
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10/22/2018  9:39 PM
Chandler wrote:Beasley
D. Williams
Jimmer
Anthony Randolph (ouch)

hoping you can revitalize a lottery-type player that another professional organization failed on is very risky business

fingers crossed as usual but it seems teams do better finding underappreciated talent and developing that (see Miami, or perhaps us with Trier or Mitch) than in the IMO hubris that we can succeed where the other organization failed even thoug hit had all the incentive in the world to develop Hezonja, Mudiay, Burke, etc. (if for no other reason than to save face in the drafting process)

there are exceptions of course, but every minute mudiay or hezonja is out there one of our young guys isn't. AND if we are successful with the retread we'll be rewarded with a bigger contract demand (perhaps with a thank you discount). On the other hand, if we used those minutes to develop Frank or Dotson etc we have more control on contract situation at least in the near term


Let me add Darko to your list.

Welpee
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10/22/2018  10:30 PM
franco12 wrote:
technomaster wrote:I remember we used to say Dougie McBuckets would come around... that he was too good to be that non-productive. I fear Hezonja is the same sort of player.

Mudiay. Not sure what's up.

I think I've been as big a defender of Mudiay as anyone - but what did he do over the summer?

I still think he might stick in this league. But he should have hired a trainer, lost weight/added strength and fixed his shot.

Maybe he did that - I don't know. But not seeing any evidence of this.

Hezonja better be careful, still have hope for him, but he could be out of the league soon!

What concerns me is that Mudiay supposedly got in shape and worked on his game and came out looking exactly like he did last season. I was a Mudiay guy too about I'm about ready to just admit that he's garbage.
GustavBahler
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10/22/2018  10:50 PM
Welpee wrote:
franco12 wrote:
technomaster wrote:I remember we used to say Dougie McBuckets would come around... that he was too good to be that non-productive. I fear Hezonja is the same sort of player.

Mudiay. Not sure what's up.

I think I've been as big a defender of Mudiay as anyone - but what did he do over the summer?

I still think he might stick in this league. But he should have hired a trainer, lost weight/added strength and fixed his shot.

Maybe he did that - I don't know. But not seeing any evidence of this.

Hezonja better be careful, still have hope for him, but he could be out of the league soon!

What concerns me is that Mudiay supposedly got in shape and worked on his game and came out looking exactly like he did last season. I was a Mudiay guy too about I'm about ready to just admit that he's garbage.

Has some off court stuff apparently to deal with. Dont see someone who enjoys playing pro ball, maybe going back to Denver. Id send him to G league, and hope for the best. Burke did it, Timmy did it.

TripleThreat
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10/23/2018  1:48 AM
Chandler wrote:Beasley
D. Williams
Jimmer
Anthony Randolph (ouch)

hoping you can revitalize a lottery-type player that another professional organization failed on is very risky business


No rational NBA front office actually thinks they are developing any player beyond their nominal first three year developmental window (sans major injury/major barriers to any kind of regular playing time)

Sometimes you just need warm bodies to soak up minutes because you are cap locked and can't do any better than minimum contract guys looking to stay in the league or find a pathway to minutes.

The Knicks DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. They spent big buckets of cash on Noah, Thomas, Lee, Rose, Melo, Hardaway Jr, Kanter, so all they have left is the vets minimum most of the time. Mudiay on this squad is fallout from fiscal irresponsibility. Don't sign a dumb ass contract like Noah and maybe you'll have some money to get something better than a minimum contract PG.

The Knicks are not saying we are planning to sign vets to minimum contracts to try to develop them. They need players to soak up some minutes and they've got no money left. That's it. That's all that's happening. All this other bull**** is just media talk and front office nonsense to create articles and blogs to ignore the fact that there is NOT enough legit NBA news to cover a 365/24/7 cycle.

Nalod
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10/23/2018  10:15 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
Chandler wrote:Beasley
D. Williams
Jimmer
Anthony Randolph (ouch)

hoping you can revitalize a lottery-type player that another professional organization failed on is very risky business


No rational NBA front office actually thinks they are developing any player beyond their nominal first three year developmental window (sans major injury/major barriers to any kind of regular playing time)

Sometimes you just need warm bodies to soak up minutes because you are cap locked and can't do any better than minimum contract guys looking to stay in the league or find a pathway to minutes.

The Knicks DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. They spent big buckets of cash on Noah, Thomas, Lee, Rose, Melo, Hardaway Jr, Kanter, so all they have left is the vets minimum most of the time. Mudiay on this squad is fallout from fiscal irresponsibility. Don't sign a dumb ass contract like Noah and maybe you'll have some money to get something better than a minimum contract PG.

The Knicks are not saying we are planning to sign vets to minimum contracts to try to develop them. They need players to soak up some minutes and they've got no money left. That's it. That's all that's happening. All this other bull**** is just media talk and front office nonsense to create articles and blogs to ignore the fact that there is NOT enough legit NBA news to cover a 365/24/7 cycle.

True. But at the same time you find a player who might crawl back to his trajectory as a lottery pick. 1 out of four? Still bad odds but it happens.
The sins of the past are irrelevant. Hardaway jr. is an average salary and while no superstar he about plays to his salary when healthy. Noah and Lance are just a reality that's best dealt with by not doubling down and trade which is NOT happening.
Vonleh is certainly inline with KOQ and younger with perhaps upside still. The future is not with these guys, but its better to bring these guys in than vet minimums.

The furture is KP, Frank and Knox. Hardaway if he can be a bit more consistent and healthy is a good asset and tradable too. If we continue to play to a bottom 5 team we will draft a potential franchise talent and have cap for KD if it is so written.

Frank
Knox
KP
KD
Zion:etc

Pipe dream for sure but only KD is. If we are better than Lottery its because one or more retreads really stepped up.
im not dreaming about KD but maybe Lebron is setting a tread. Legacy in place and move to a city for family/business/Cultural reasons. "Winning" is important but the sense of urgency is not so. Lebron has to know going to the finals every year will also shorten his career. Look how not going to playoffs or deep runs has done for Melo's longevity up until now?

Im not banking on a "stars" but fact is we have young talent as our core.
Kristaps is the most compelling prospective talent in the NBA in my opinion. Not since Ralph Sampson Have I seen these kind of fundamentals in a 7plus foot player. Odds of a long healthy career are not there. There is always hope, remember Brook Lopez? Fans laughed at resigning him but he healed up nice and had a very good run for a while! Steph Curry's ankles were problematic. Kurt Thomas also kept breaking his feet. There are examples. ACL if that's it might be ok. The compelling part about KP is he moves like wing and that might have to stop. Sabonis (dad) was a skinny kid but as he grew large his fundamentals kept him very relavent. His best years were behind the iron curtain but he was able to have a nice NBA career late. Im hoping. Im a fan.

CrushAlot
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10/23/2018  11:59 AM
Vonleh's scouting report on draftnet basically said he had a good chance of being a second draft guy because he was so young coming into the league. I also think this coaching staff is serious about teaching and getting the most out of their players. I loved Breens comment that the Knicks have a coach sit with Mitch during games and have him
Practice identifying and calling out the defense.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Chandler
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10/23/2018  12:59 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Chandler wrote:Beasley
D. Williams
Jimmer
Anthony Randolph (ouch)

hoping you can revitalize a lottery-type player that another professional organization failed on is very risky business


No rational NBA front office actually thinks they are developing any player beyond their nominal first three year developmental window (sans major injury/major barriers to any kind of regular playing time)

Sometimes you just need warm bodies to soak up minutes because you are cap locked and can't do any better than minimum contract guys looking to stay in the league or find a pathway to minutes.

The Knicks DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. They spent big buckets of cash on Noah, Thomas, Lee, Rose, Melo, Hardaway Jr, Kanter, so all they have left is the vets minimum most of the time. Mudiay on this squad is fallout from fiscal irresponsibility. Don't sign a dumb ass contract like Noah and maybe you'll have some money to get something better than a minimum contract PG.

The Knicks are not saying we are planning to sign vets to minimum contracts to try to develop them. They need players to soak up some minutes and they've got no money left. That's it. That's all that's happening. All this other bull**** is just media talk and front office nonsense to create articles and blogs to ignore the fact that there is NOT enough legit NBA news to cover a 365/24/7 cycle.

They traded picks for him. You could think of it as trading Willy for him. So while I like yours posts, I disagree with this one. They thought they were smarter than Denver and could uncork Mudiay's inner superstar if they just talked nicely about him

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Chandler
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10/23/2018  1:02 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Vonleh's scouting report on draftnet basically said he had a good chance of being a second draft guy because he was so young coming into the league. I also think this coaching staff is serious about teaching and getting the most out of their players. I loved Breens comment that the Knicks have a coach sit with Mitch during games and have him
Practice identifying and calling out the defense.

that's awesome news, and the way it should be.

I think they need something like that with Frank -- maybe not game time, but some one-on-want film work to better spot his opportunities and the need to attack/not hesitate as often as he does. They need to convince him this is not being selfish but helps his teammates by forcing the opponent to pay attention and respect Frank on offense.

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Chandler
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10/23/2018  1:05 PM
Liked Burke last night attacking the rim

Vonleh contributed again

Hezonja is an engigma still; what's with all of these jump passes and whining; IMO his window is closing with Knox's return

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Chandler
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10/25/2018  3:27 PM
Miami game:

Oh Mario, how can you look like a catch one play and a throw-back the very next. a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

Burke -- best advice is to have a short memory, shake it off, and come back strong (even if off the bench)

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re-treads thus far (i.e., way too early) in the season

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