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Insider: What waiving Joakim Noah means for the Knicks' chase for Kevin Durant and more stars
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CrushAlot
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10/13/2018  6:01 PM
What waiving Joakim Noah means for the Knicks' chase for Kevin Durant and more stars - NBA
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What waiving Joakim Noah means for the Knicks' chase for Kevin Durant and more stars - NBA
by Kevin Pelton on 2018-10-17 02:07:00 UTC (original: http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/24973837/what-waiving-joakim-noah-means-knicks-chase-kevin-durant-more-stars-nba)

Where do the New York Knicks stand for the summer of 2019 after waiving Joakim Noah?

After months of rumors about a possible buyout for Noah, the Knicks ended up waiving him without any discount whatsoever, opening up a roster spot but forcing them to stretch the $19.3 million Noah was scheduled to make in 2019-20 -- the last of his ill-fated four-year, $72 million contract -- over the next three seasons.

How much cap space will that give New York for the summer of 2019, when the team hopes to add a marquee free agent to its base of young talent? And why might the Knicks regret stretching Noah rather than attempting to trade his salary next summer? Let's take a look.


Where New York stands for 2019
Stretching Noah's 2019-20 salary leaves the Knicks with $57-plus million in salary on the books next summer. That total includes Lance Thomas' $7.6 million deal, which is non-guaranteed through June 30, but not a $17.1 million cap hold for Kristaps Porzingis -- who will be a restricted free agent barring an extension between now and Monday's deadline. Because Porzingis would surely make more than that on a new contract, it appears New York will let him become a free agent to maximize its cap room.

Including Porzingis' cap hold and taking out Thomas' salary pushes the Knicks to $66.9 million committed for 2019-20, which would give them about $37.7 million in space under the current $109 million cap projection after factoring in minimum-salary cap holds for unfilled spots on the roster. That would leave them a little shy of the $38.15 estimated maximum salary for players with 10-plus years of experience, including potential free agent Kevin Durant of the Golden State Warriors, who's been linked with New York.

We haven't yet factored in the Knicks' draft pick, which should again fall in the top 10. Based on the latest round of simulations using my projections based on ESPN's real plus-minus, New York's first-round pick has an average cap hold of more than $6 million. Add that in and the Knicks' projected cap space is down to $32.5 million -- slightly less even than the estimated $32.7 million max for players with 7-9 years of experience.

Unless New York wins a top-four lottery pick, max money for a player with 7-9 years of experience (like Jimmy Butler of the Minnesota Timberwolves, Kawhi Leonard of the Toronto Raptors and Kemba Walker of the Charlotte Hornets, among others) shouldn't be an issue. The Knicks could get there under the average projection simply by waiving reserve wing Damyean Dotson, whose 2019-20 salary is also non-guaranteed through July 15. But creating enough room for Durant, or another player with 10-plus years of experience, could be trickier.

Noah stretch limits New York's flexibility
In the short term, the least painful way for the Knicks to create full max money next summer would have been trading Noah heading into the final season of his contract, removing it from the books entirely. While that surely would have cost New York at least one future first-round pick or an equivalent prospect, it would have maximized the Knicks' ability to win right away with a new star.

Stretching Noah removes that possibility, giving New York fewer options to amass additional 2019 cap space. Just two remaining Knicks players are under guaranteed contract for more than $4.6 million in 2019-20: wings Tim Hardaway Jr. and Courtney Lee. Dealing the 26-year-old Hardaway to clear room wouldn't seemingly make sense, leaving Lee -- who will turn 34 prior to the 2019-20 season and will be entering the final year of his contract -- as the most palatable option.

If Lee plays well this season, another team might take on his $12.8 million salary without much, if any, draft-pick compensation, which would be a long-term positive. However, New York might miss Lee's 3-and-D skill set, an ideal complement to the kind of star they'd hope to sign.

The other scenario worth exploring here is what happens if the Knicks strike out in free agency next summer. Had New York waited until next summer to decide on Noah's contract, the Knicks would have had the option to forego a stretch in that scenario, keeping their books clear for the summer of 2020. By that point, even with Porzingis on a max deal, New York would have been looking at $40-plus million in projected cap space. Now, Noah's stretched salary -- the largest ever for a stretched player, according to ESPN's Bobby Marks -- will cut $6.4 million into that amount, and the same in the summer of 2021.

Knicks better off waiting on Noah
Considering all the possible options for the Knicks, including both trading Noah and waiving him next summer without a stretch, I think waiting was their best move. Unlike the Los Angeles Lakers, who got a substantial discount from Luol Deng in a buyout when they waived and stretched him under similar circumstances last month, New York derived no such benefit from acting now.

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Besides holding off another year of questions about whether he would rejoin the team, the only reason for the Knicks to waive Noah at this point is the roster spot, which will go to training-camp invitee Noah Vonleh. While Vonleh has shown promise in the preseason, I don't think the chances of him developing into a contributor are high enough to justify the loss of flexibility with Noah's contract. (New York could also have waived a player in the final season of his contract, presumably Ron Baker, to make room for Vonleh.)

The Knicks will still have options if a max-caliber free agent is interested in coming to New York next summer or beyond, but not quite as many as had they kept Noah on the books another year.


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http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/24973837/what-waiving-joakim-noah-means-knicks-chase-kevin-durant-more-stars-nba
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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arkrud
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10/13/2018  6:43 PM
Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
reub
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10/13/2018  6:57 PM
KD is definitely coming here.

Most definitely.

arkrud
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10/13/2018  7:01 PM
reub wrote:KD is definitely coming here.

Most definitely.

Reason being?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
reub
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10/13/2018  7:02 PM
arkrud wrote:
reub wrote:KD is definitely coming here.

Most definitely.

Reason being?


Just kidding.
arkrud
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10/13/2018  7:16 PM
reub wrote:
arkrud wrote:
reub wrote:KD is definitely coming here.

Most definitely.

Reason being?


Just kidding.

Great player coming to carry the team on their shoulder is a joke. Never happening.
This players some to take already good or great team over the top and win it all.
KD even joined the team already on the top.
Only idiot will not go for sure thing if opportunity presents itself.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
VCoug
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10/13/2018  7:48 PM
arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
NardDogNation
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10/13/2018  9:11 PM
VCoug wrote:
arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

wargames
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10/13/2018  9:34 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
VCoug wrote:
arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

I think the problem is if they don't spend that money now after they Max KP it would be another 2 seasons before they have anywhere that much cap available again when Timmy comes off. That too won't be a max money either and by that point they'll need to start paying the youth on the roster like Frank and Knox.

In a lot of ways they need to build the core this offseason either with KD or maybe with some either high level players, because after this year they will be stuck.

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VCoug
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10/13/2018  9:45 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
VCoug wrote:
arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

Yep

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
CrushAlot
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10/13/2018  9:55 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
VCoug wrote:
arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

I think they might go for Kemba. But they also could go for young guys that project to be good like an Oubre or RHJ
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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10/13/2018  10:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/13/2018  10:31 PM
wargames wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
VCoug wrote:
arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

I think the problem is if they don't spend that money now after they Max KP it would be another 2 seasons before they have anywhere that much cap available again when Timmy comes off. That too won't be a max money either and by that point they'll need to start paying the youth on the roster like Frank and Knox.

In a lot of ways they need to build the core this offseason either with KD or maybe with some either high level players, because after this year they will be stuck.

If we do get Kevin Durant, what can we really offer him as a supporting cast?

We're a team of neophytes. I view adding a Kevin Durant as problematic in this type of situation because it shifts the focus away from developing our players toward marginalizing them as role players to accommodate a Kevin Durant. And how long will a Kevin Durant be with us for anyway? How long will a Kevin Durant remain Kevin Durant to justify shortchanging our future like that? I don't think we're ready for a guy like him and I don't think he'd radically change the fortunes of our franchise enough to justify the cost of him being here.

And please don't forget that he is a 7-footer that relies heavily on his agility, who has had a number of leg injuries including a Jones fracture fairly recently. Men of his ilk don't have a very long career arcs, and he'll be 30 years old in year 1 of a max deal with us. If we're not ready to win immediately and win big when we sign him, it'd be a waste of a signing IMO. I'd stay away from him until we figured out what we had with this team....or if a Giannis and/or AD became available that we could flip the young kids for.

NardDogNation
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10/13/2018  10:28 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
VCoug wrote:
arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

I think they might go for Kemba. But they also could go for young guys that project to be good like an Oubre or RHJ

Yeah, I could see them going for Kemba as well which would be a huge mistake. Guys with his size and skillset don't stay elite for long (see Isiah Thomas).

I could also see us making a play for Kelly Oubre, who would also be a big mistake IMO. He seems to be a guy too heavily involved in off-court interests to thrive here. He reminds me a lot of an Iman Shumpert who seemed more concerned with his "modeling" and "rap" career to evidently improve in the NBA. NYC is a corrupting influence for those types, so I could see a guy like Oubre get swallowed up in the celebrity of being a Knick; much like Shumpert was.

I think the most prudent thing to do with our cap space is to keep the powder dry. With so many teams set to have cap space this season, expect to see a host of more stupid contracts offered to outbid the next sucker. We can't afford another 2016 offseason that handicaps our cap space moving forward. We should instead focus on leveraging cap space either for draft picks or to acquire more salary in the short-term, to free up more money in the long-term. Other than that, I'd stand pat.

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10/13/2018  10:35 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
VCoug wrote:
arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

I think they might go for Kemba. But they also could go for young guys that project to be good like an Oubre or RHJ

I believe Oubre will be available, but he doesn't fit the roster. I'm a big RHJ fan, but he doesn't really fit either, if Robinson or Knox develop according to plan. Winslow just an envelope extension with the heat for $13 million per. I'd think RHJ and Kelly would at least get that. And Kemba...I'd rather put feelers out on Butler if that's our only option. Don't get me wrong, I think Kemba is good. But he presents some of the issues as Burke with his size and lack of positional versatility.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
NardDogNation
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10/13/2018  10:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/13/2018  10:47 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
VCoug wrote:
arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

I think they might go for Kemba. But they also could go for young guys that project to be good like an Oubre or RHJ

I believe Oubre will be available, but he doesn't fit the roster. I'm a big RHJ fan, but he doesn't really fit either, if Robinson or Knox develop according to plan. Winslow just an envelope extension with the heat for $13 million per. I'd think RHJ and Kelly would at least get that. And Kemba...I'd rather put feelers out on Butler if that's our only option. Don't get me wrong, I think Kemba is good. But he presents some of the issues as Burke with his size and lack of positional versatility.

...which is exactly why I'd prefer a Terry Rozier (at a quasi-max) to a Kemba-max. At least Rozier is young enough to justify the investment and is not handicapped at either guard spot defensively. Outside of Rozier (provided he impresses again this season), I can't justify paying anyone this offseason given our predicament.

CrushAlot
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10/13/2018  10:58 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
VCoug wrote:
arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

I think they might go for Kemba. But they also could go for young guys that project to be good like an Oubre or RHJ

I believe Oubre will be available, but he doesn't fit the roster. I'm a big RHJ fan, but he doesn't really fit either, if Robinson or Knox develop according to plan. Winslow just an envelope extension with the heat for $13 million per. I'd think RHJ and Kelly would at least get that. And Kemba...I'd rather put feelers out on Butler if that's our only option. Don't get me wrong, I think Kemba is good. But he presents some of the issues as Burke with his size and lack of positional versatility.

...which is exactly why I'd prefer a Terry Rozier (at a quasi-max) to a Kemba-max. At least Rozier is young enough to justify the investment and is not handicapped at either guard spot defensively. Outside of Rozier (provided he impresses again this season), I can't justify paying anyone this offseason given our predicament.

Rozier is another good. The Celtics probably won't be able to keep him.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
NardDogNation
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10/13/2018  11:51 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
VCoug wrote:
arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

I think they might go for Kemba. But they also could go for young guys that project to be good like an Oubre or RHJ

I believe Oubre will be available, but he doesn't fit the roster. I'm a big RHJ fan, but he doesn't really fit either, if Robinson or Knox develop according to plan. Winslow just an envelope extension with the heat for $13 million per. I'd think RHJ and Kelly would at least get that. And Kemba...I'd rather put feelers out on Butler if that's our only option. Don't get me wrong, I think Kemba is good. But he presents some of the issues as Burke with his size and lack of positional versatility.

...which is exactly why I'd prefer a Terry Rozier (at a quasi-max) to a Kemba-max. At least Rozier is young enough to justify the investment and is not handicapped at either guard spot defensively. Outside of Rozier (provided he impresses again this season), I can't justify paying anyone this offseason given our predicament.

Rozier is another good. The Celtics probably won't be able to keep him.

Which is exactly why I like the idea of pursuing him. With our cap space, we have the opportunity to do a number of things to dissuade the Celtics from matching, while also protecting our long-term (financial) health. Maybe our biggest advantage is our ability to frontload his contract, which would also give us some flexibility on the tail end of the deal if he under-performs. But I'm fairly high on Rozier and think he can be something of a Victor Oladipo for us next to Frank.

wargames
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10/14/2018  12:24 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
VCoug wrote:
arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

I think they might go for Kemba. But they also could go for young guys that project to be good like an Oubre or RHJ

I believe Oubre will be available, but he doesn't fit the roster. I'm a big RHJ fan, but he doesn't really fit either, if Robinson or Knox develop according to plan. Winslow just an envelope extension with the heat for $13 million per. I'd think RHJ and Kelly would at least get that. And Kemba...I'd rather put feelers out on Butler if that's our only option. Don't get me wrong, I think Kemba is good. But he presents some of the issues as Burke with his size and lack of positional versatility.

...which is exactly why I'd prefer a Terry Rozier (at a quasi-max) to a Kemba-max. At least Rozier is young enough to justify the investment and is not handicapped at either guard spot defensively. Outside of Rozier (provided he impresses again this season), I can't justify paying anyone this offseason given our predicament.

Rozier is another good. The Celtics probably won't be able to keep him.

Which is exactly why I like the idea of pursuing him. With our cap space, we have the opportunity to do a number of things to dissuade the Celtics from matching, while also protecting our long-term (financial) health. Maybe our biggest advantage is our ability to frontload his contract, which would also give us some flexibility on the tail end of the deal if he under-performs. But I'm fairly high on Rozier and think he can be something of a Victor Oladipo for us next to Frank.

I still think Rozier and Randle would be the best get the Knicks could pull. Spend 17 Mil on each and the team is set with a Young PG and an Inside post threat who can guard the perimeter as KP Rim protects. Add one of those high pick Wings and the Knicks can come away with a secondary perimeter scorer as well.

The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
NardDogNation
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10/14/2018  2:26 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/14/2018  2:28 AM
wargames wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
VCoug wrote:
arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

I think they might go for Kemba. But they also could go for young guys that project to be good like an Oubre or RHJ

I believe Oubre will be available, but he doesn't fit the roster. I'm a big RHJ fan, but he doesn't really fit either, if Robinson or Knox develop according to plan. Winslow just an envelope extension with the heat for $13 million per. I'd think RHJ and Kelly would at least get that. And Kemba...I'd rather put feelers out on Butler if that's our only option. Don't get me wrong, I think Kemba is good. But he presents some of the issues as Burke with his size and lack of positional versatility.

...which is exactly why I'd prefer a Terry Rozier (at a quasi-max) to a Kemba-max. At least Rozier is young enough to justify the investment and is not handicapped at either guard spot defensively. Outside of Rozier (provided he impresses again this season), I can't justify paying anyone this offseason given our predicament.

Rozier is another good. The Celtics probably won't be able to keep him.

Which is exactly why I like the idea of pursuing him. With our cap space, we have the opportunity to do a number of things to dissuade the Celtics from matching, while also protecting our long-term (financial) health. Maybe our biggest advantage is our ability to frontload his contract, which would also give us some flexibility on the tail end of the deal if he under-performs. But I'm fairly high on Rozier and think he can be something of a Victor Oladipo for us next to Frank.

I still think Rozier and Randle would be the best get the Knicks could pull. Spend 17 Mil on each and the team is set with a Young PG and an Inside post threat who can guard the perimeter as KP Rim protects. Add one of those high pick Wings and the Knicks can come away with a secondary perimeter scorer as well.

I felt similarly about Randle but he's gotten a lot of negative pub that now has me thinking that I missed something about him. Tim McMann recently suggested that he's best suited as a bench player and I've heard multiple people criticize his defense. Considering that he is also a poor floor spacer, I wonder if he's worth a major investment since the combination of those qualities tend to be prohibitive. And what position do you consider Knox? Because if Knox is a 4, Randle becomes kind of redundant.

Jmpasq
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10/14/2018  7:47 AM
wargames wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
VCoug wrote:
arkrud wrote:Knicks management confirmed once again that they are committed for multiyear rebuild.
It is also clear that they are not bunking on getting any of max contract FAs in 2019.
Finally we have some sanity, plan, and attempt to build winning culture and respected organization.
Very refreshing.

That's not true at all. If it were, we wouldn't have stretched him and just let him expire after next season. The only reason to stretch him and hurt our cap space in 2020 and 2021 is to try and sign big money FA in 2019.

...except we have no real idea if a big money FA is even interested in us in 2019; and even if they intimated they were, a lot can change in 12 freaking months. Thankfully, we've encumbered our cap flexibility in 2020 and 2021, in the off-chance that an elite talent would be interested in us at that point. #KnickLogic

Makes you wonder why we root for this team, right?

I think the problem is if they don't spend that money now after they Max KP it would be another 2 seasons before they have anywhere that much cap available again when Timmy comes off. That too won't be a max money either and by that point they'll need to start paying the youth on the roster like Frank and Knox.

In a lot of ways they need to build the core this offseason either with KD or maybe with some either high level players, because after this year they will be stuck.

Yep, once KP makes 30 million a year things get more difficult. Something so obvious I can't believe how stupid Mills was to give Hardaway Jr. that contract

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