HofstraBBall wrote:I think Tony Wroten can be a huge factor for us!!

Westchester is already deep at shooting guard.

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:I think Tony Wroten can be a huge factor for us!!

Westchester is already deep at shooting guard.

Sorry, is this the Tony Wroten thread? Or another thread that has gone way too long with guys that don't like Frank and guys that like Frank basically saying the same thing? Lol

Welpee wrote:Honestly, is Frank's defense having enough of an impact to justify his lack of offense? Same with Lance Thomas.

In the meantime, DSJ seems to have problems with not being the shiny new toy/alpha dog anymore. His stats have been nosediving while the DeAndre Jordan/Luka Doncic duo have been carrying the Mavs.

Cartman718 wrote:

anrst wrote:im as big a frank fan as there is ................ BUT CMON BRO ............ WTF... you are a hot shot young NBA player .... TAKE THE OPEN SHOT .............................. for god sake, you play on a team with Tim Chuckaway Jr ........ be a little selfish.

to his credit, good chucks so far, but wait till chucky becomes the horror movie

Sounds like your praying for his down fall...but you and a few others do that with everyone not name frank

knicks1248 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

anrst wrote:im as big a frank fan as there is ................ BUT CMON BRO ............ WTF... you are a hot shot young NBA player .... TAKE THE OPEN SHOT .............................. for god sake, you play on a team with Tim Chuckaway Jr ........ be a little selfish.

to his credit, good chucks so far, but wait till chucky becomes the horror movie

Sounds like your praying for his down fall...but you and a few others do that with everyone not name frank

i do that (look with skepticism, not pray for downfall) with everyone 25 yrs old and above. they get a pass for first few years. sounds like you don't know anyone's age or experience on the team

Nalod wrote:Yes, He does everything really well but shoot. I saw a deep talented veteran Bucks team tied at home with the youngest team in the league with a 20 year old playing more minutes than anyone. Score tied 110-110 and the Bucks talent led by MVP candidate Giannis took over and we could not stop it.
I saw a steady player taking care of the ball and setting up his team. He moved the ball.
Glass half full game for this fan. Road game against a very good Buck team,comes back from awful 2nd period and competes until the talent slams the door.
This is what a young team rebuilding looks like in a positive direction.

Whats the debate here? No one is saying to trade Frank. Give up on Frank? That he is not 20 and that the book is still out on him? Is there? Are you saying, that he does not have issues with confidence? Being Agressive? Been playing like a successful lottery pick thus far? Which isn't the biggest insult because not many do. Are you saying, that he does not have issues with confidence? Being Agressive? Been playing like a successful lottery pick thus far? Which isn't the biggest insult because not many do.

Biggest issue is not his shooting its his inability to use the skills he has. O SHOTS in the second half!!! Could we have won that game if he shot a few more...maybe. Is it an issue for anyone that our lottery pick did not even want to try? For me it is. I mean ****, drive, pick up a foul, use your length and athleticism to do so. The guy has a huge wingspan and could draw easy fouls. He could do a one dribble move with a pull up and no one would block his shot. In sports, you can practice everything but the will do want to take over a game and fight to win. People make fun of guys like Timmy, who I am not a big fan of his game, but at least he has the balls to fail. Shit, even Mario tried, unsuccessfully, to be aggressive.

However, think the only debate is, or at least for me, does he have the confidence and ability to be more than just a role player? Def think he has the ability and tools. But will he ever have the confidence. Many before him have failed in the same way. Secondly, was he worth an 8 pick? Just dont think he has yet. Can it all change and is he young..... Absolutely. As mentioned, he is now a Knick and we should all be patient and support him. Dont thnk ANYONE on here is hoping he fails or wants to trade himt. But think the ones that are worried about him have a fair gripe.

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Fiz needs to give Frank the green light to shoot whenever he gets the ball like with Knox. Do that and he'll be fine

I think he has it.

Of course he has, frank said it himself, "the coach wants me to more aggressive"

Some of you keep saying he's getting better, but his numbers from his first 3 games last yr are slightly better, he actually took more shots and played less minutes, shot a higher percentage. As of today he is shooting 34%, 27% on 3's and has still not taking a FT..

That is considered a major liability on offense

gotta be a little fair its only 3 games. Plus of course you dont mention the net game where his offense got us back in the game in the 3rd quarter. Fiz admitted he put the ball in his hands which he needs to do more

his lack off offense is what put us behind

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

Its fair criticism from 1248, if its to counter the notion that Frank is guaranteed to become more than a role player. Unfair, if its a criticism of Frank as a role player.

As a role player he does a lot of things well. I dont see anything certain as far as Frank's ceiling, either way. Maybe thats why Frank can be frustrating to watch at times. Shows glimpses during games.

As I said in the gamethread, in the NBA, you have to want to be the man to play PG, I dont see that yet from Frank. Usually thats there already.

Still very early, Im sure 1248 would agree the Frank has plenty of time this season to become better at sustaining a certain level of aggression, offensively. Does that and he's at least a borderline all-star, depending on how much he improves.

The league average for scoring last year was about 106 according to bballreference.com. We're averaging a shade under 111, which is good for 9th, I know, only three games. And I realize Frank has to score more. He's showing aggressiveness and I'm encouraged. But to single Frank out as the reason we lost during a period when the entire team was cold seems a bit much. We're clearly scoring enough. We lost those last two games for a number of reasons. Knicks1248 seems to neglect, or just doesn't want to see the one where our overpaid starting SG failed to get key defensive stops at the end of games 2X in row.

This is the bull sht finger pointing I'm talking about, THJ has been carrying the offensive load for lance and frank, and you point out his one play he didn't get a stop on a really good player.

If frank was so good defensively, how come the coach didn't give him that assignment.

It's so stupid to think a die hard knick fan is not pulling for his players. It's frustrating to see a player with his potential, his length, and his abilities not take advantage of it.

The only way your going to get frank to play more aggressive is to take away his minutes if he doesn't, just like you take away minutes from a player who's not defending.

Now if he was getting 4 blocks, 4 steals, 5 deflections, redirecting shots, 7 assist, I wouldn't care if he every shot the ball because his defense is compensating.

knicks1248 wrote:

his lack off offense is what put us behind

Simply not true. The entire unit was cold, but you wanted to single out Frank for some reason. But you failed to mention Burke's mediocre play and THJ's slack defense. It wasn't play that THJ didn't get the stop. I'm just highlighting the plays that cost us two games.Yes, Frank needs to improve. But he isn't the sole reason we lost. You harp on our offense, even though we're scoring at decent clip. Just face it, you have Sith level hate when it comes to Frank.

The league avg in scoring was around 106 last season, the pelicans are avg 140 points in their first 2 games, they scored 149 in a regulation game.

Scoring in the NBA is through the roof. We are avg 110 points (which would have been tops last season) this season that's good for 17th (below avg)

The defense will keep you in some games, but lets be honest dude, teams are putting 4 to 5 players on the floor that can knock down threes, hit FT's(the ticky tack fouls are way up) and everyone is playing just as fast as us.

Speed is not the answer all the time. Lakers are #1 in possessions per game. Have they won a game? Speed + Control is the answer. and that control sometimes comes from slowing it down and sometimes comes from D

Nalod wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:Yes, He does everything really well but shoot. I saw a deep talented veteran Bucks team tied at home with the youngest team in the league with a 20 year old playing more minutes than anyone. Score tied 110-110 and the Bucks talent led by MVP candidate Giannis took over and we could not stop it.
I saw a steady player taking care of the ball and setting up his team. He moved the ball.
Glass half full game for this fan. Road game against a very good Buck team,comes back from awful 2nd period and competes until the talent slams the door.
This is what a young team rebuilding looks like in a positive direction.

Whats the debate here? No one is saying to trade Frank. Give up on Frank? That he is not 20 and that the book is still out on him? Is there? Are you saying, that he does not have issues with confidence? Being Agressive? Been playing like a successful lottery pick thus far? Which isn't the biggest insult because not many do. Are you saying, that he does not have issues with confidence? Being Agressive? Been playing like a successful lottery pick thus far? Which isn't the biggest insult because not many do.

Biggest issue is not his shooting its his inability to use the skills he has. O SHOTS in the second half!!! Could we have won that game if he shot a few more...maybe. Is it an issue for anyone that our lottery pick did not even want to try? For me it is. I mean ****, drive, pick up a foul, use your length and athleticism to do so. The guy has a huge wingspan and could draw easy fouls. He could do a one dribble move with a pull up and no one would block his shot. In sports, you can practice everything but the will do want to take over a game and fight to win. People make fun of guys like Timmy, who I am not a big fan of his game, but at least he has the balls to fail. Shit, even Mario tried, unsuccessfully, to be aggressive.

However, think the only debate is, or at least for me, does he have the confidence and ability to be more than just a role player? Def think he has the ability and tools. But will he ever have the confidence. Many before him have failed in the same way. Secondly, was he worth an 8 pick? Just dont think he has yet. Can it all change and is he young..... Absolutely. As mentioned, he is now a Knick and we should all be patient and support him. Dont thnk ANYONE on here is hoping he fails or wants to trade himt. But think the ones that are worried about him have a fair gripe.

Not sure whats in his head or why he does not shoot. Thought he hit a three in the second half, tried it again and missed. I'd be interested to know what Fiz's thinking is. Is he happy with what he is doing vs. what he is not?
There are moments he sets his mates up but they don't convert. I am happy he is perhaps less floaters but he needs to nail his shot!

Trier has the moves and it looks good but often he really does not get anywhere with it. I do think he is the "AntiFrank" and trying to shoot less and move the ball. They will find their way. Hopefully!

The shooting sequence you are talking about was in the end of second quarter. He had 6 total shots at the half and 6 total at the end of the game. I do think Fiz obviously likes what he brings. Or Frank would be sitting out much more. Do think Fiz got frustrated with him a bit and took him out early in 1st quarter for Baker. But then had to go back to him once he got hurt. Trier seems more suited to come off the bench. Instant offense. Lou Williams type. Think Dotson has shown more than Frank, Trier and Burke the last two games. Not enough reason to make changes yet though. I do think some can see why I thought Mudiay was going to be the starting point guard. Not a great choice but pushed the pace how Fiz likes, gets other involved more than Burke and is more aggressive than Frank. Interesting to see if that happens. Also, interested to see what happens with Lee.

Last night showed, once again, that we have many interesting athletic young pieces with skill. Unfortunately, with young players there will be growing pains. It is a fun game to watch though. Think our future looks better that it did at the start of the Phil era. Once we get KP, Lee and Know back, think it will be even more fun to watch.

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Fiz needs to give Frank the green light to shoot whenever he gets the ball like with Knox. Do that and he'll be fine

I think he has it.

Of course he has, frank said it himself, "the coach wants me to more aggressive"

Some of you keep saying he's getting better, but his numbers from his first 3 games last yr are slightly better, he actually took more shots and played less minutes, shot a higher percentage. As of today he is shooting 34%, 27% on 3's and has still not taking a FT..

That is considered a major liability on offense

gotta be a little fair its only 3 games. Plus of course you dont mention the net game where his offense got us back in the game in the 3rd quarter. Fiz admitted he put the ball in his hands which he needs to do more

his lack off offense is what put us behind

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

Its fair criticism from 1248, if its to counter the notion that Frank is guaranteed to become more than a role player. Unfair, if its a criticism of Frank as a role player.

As a role player he does a lot of things well. I dont see anything certain as far as Frank's ceiling, either way. Maybe thats why Frank can be frustrating to watch at times. Shows glimpses during games.

As I said in the gamethread, in the NBA, you have to want to be the man to play PG, I dont see that yet from Frank. Usually thats there already.

Still very early, Im sure 1248 would agree the Frank has plenty of time this season to become better at sustaining a certain level of aggression, offensively. Does that and he's at least a borderline all-star, depending on how much he improves.

The league average for scoring last year was about 106 according to bballreference.com. We're averaging a shade under 111, which is good for 9th, I know, only three games. And I realize Frank has to score more. He's showing aggressiveness and I'm encouraged. But to single Frank out as the reason we lost during a period when the entire team was cold seems a bit much. We're clearly scoring enough. We lost those last two games for a number of reasons. Knicks1248 seems to neglect, or just doesn't want to see the one where our overpaid starting SG failed to get key defensive stops at the end of games 2X in row.

This is the bull sht finger pointing I'm talking about, THJ has been carrying the offensive load for lance and frank, and you point out his one play he didn't get a stop on a really good player.

If frank was so good defensively, how come the coach didn't give him that assignment.

It's so stupid to think a die hard knick fan is not pulling for his players. It's frustrating to see a player with his potential, his length, and his abilities not take advantage of it.

The only way your going to get frank to play more aggressive is to take away his minutes if he doesn't, just like you take away minutes from a player who's not defending.

Now if he was getting 4 blocks, 4 steals, 5 deflections, redirecting shots, 7 assist, I wouldn't care if he every shot the ball because his defense is compensating.

knicks1248 wrote:

his lack off offense is what put us behind

Simply not true. The entire unit was cold, but you wanted to single out Frank for some reason. But you failed to mention Burke's mediocre play and THJ's slack defense. It wasn't play that THJ didn't get the stop. I'm just highlighting the plays that cost us two games.Yes, Frank needs to improve. But he isn't the sole reason we lost. You harp on our offense, even though we're scoring at decent clip. Just face it, you have Sith level hate when it comes to Frank.

The league avg in scoring was around 106 last season, the pelicans are avg 140 points in their first 2 games, they scored 149 in a regulation game.

Scoring in the NBA is through the roof. We are avg 110 points (which would have been tops last season) this season that's good for 17th (below avg)

The defense will keep you in some games, but lets be honest dude, teams are putting 4 to 5 players on the floor that can knock down threes, hit FT's(the ticky tack fouls are way up) and everyone is playing just as fast as us.

Speed is not the answer all the time. Lakers are #1 in possessions per game. Have they won a game? Speed + Control is the answer. and that control sometimes comes from slowing it down and sometimes comes from D

I just looked up these stats and here is a couple of things: We're 5th in points scored per game and 29th in points given up. We're 10th in pace. As I've stated before, I don't think scoring has been our biggest issue. These number are from basketball reference and NBA.com.

Couple of facts.
In the Brooklyn game Frank was a minus 22. Not the whole unit.
Pointing out that Frank is not good offensively, is not only true but agreed upon by most.
The league average thus far is 112.96. We are below the league average.
We are above league average in Team defense.

Season League(s) G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS

2014-15 LNB Pro A 3 8.0 0.7 2.0 .333 0.3 0.7 .500 0.3 1.3 .250 0.3 0.7 .500 0.0 0.3 0.3 1.0 0.0 0.0 0.7 1.0 2.0

2015-16 EuroCup, EuroLeague, LNB Pro A 35 8.0 0.5 1.6 .339 0.1 0.4 .286 0.4 1.2 .357 0.2 0.3 .727 0.3 0.3 0.6 0.6 0.2 0.1 0.3 1.2 1.4

2016-17 LNB Pro A 32 18.3 2.0 4.1 .485 0.7 1.6 .431 1.3 2.5 .519 0.6 0.9 .621 0.8 1.3 2.1 1.4 0.8 0.2 0.9 2.3 5.2
70 12.7 1.2 2.7 .438 0.4 1.0 .403 0.8 1.8 .456 0.4 0.6 .643 0.6 0.7 1.3 1.0 0.4 0.1 0.6 1.7 3.2
Totals

The kid averaged 3.2 points on 4 shot attempts his last season over sea

If he was in the NCAA, he would have never been drafted..