StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Fiz needs to give Frank the green light to shoot whenever he gets the ball like with Knox. Do that and he'll be fine

I think he has it.

Of course he has, frank said it himself, "the coach wants me to more aggressive"

Some of you keep saying he's getting better, but his numbers from his first 3 games last yr are slightly better, he actually took more shots and played less minutes, shot a higher percentage. As of today he is shooting 34%, 27% on 3's and has still not taking a FT..

That is considered a major liability on offense

gotta be a little fair its only 3 games. Plus of course you dont mention the net game where his offense got us back in the game in the 3rd quarter. Fiz admitted he put the ball in his hands which he needs to do more

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Fiz needs to give Frank the green light to shoot whenever he gets the ball like with Knox. Do that and he'll be fine

I think he has it.

Of course he has, frank said it himself, "the coach wants me to more aggressive"

Some of you keep saying he's getting better, but his numbers from his first 3 games last yr are slightly better, he actually took more shots and played less minutes, shot a higher percentage. As of today he is shooting 34%, 27% on 3's and has still not taking a FT..

That is considered a major liability on offense

gotta be a little fair its only 3 games. Plus of course you dont mention the net game where his offense got us back in the game in the 3rd quarter. Fiz admitted he put the ball in his hands which he needs to do more

his lack off offense is what put us behind

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

knicks1248 wrote:his lack of offense is what put us behind

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

This pretty much shows how much you know about basketball or actually follow games. The reason why Trae was able to manage that against Cleveland is because he was playing against Sexton and Hood, both of whom have pretty much done nothing this season on defense.

Butler torched Cleveland for 33 points on 10 of 12 shooting. Lowry torched them for 27 points on 10 of 12 shooting as well.
So Trae going 13 of 23 is actually well below that percentage before you go ahead and anoint him the next Steph Curry.

Tatum score 8 of 15 against Knicks. Against Frank 1 of 3. Against Dotson 0 of 2.

Burke is our problem here, not Frank. If we promote Trier to the starting lineup, that gives us the best balance on O and D. Burke really tried in the 2nd quarter against Atlanta on D. Since then, it's been generally downhill. He's just incapable. If Burke was lighting it up on O like Trier has been, then your argument would have some merit.

Fiz is all about earning your role and what exactly has Burke done to earn that starting PG spot. At the moment, Burke has 1 good shooting game...against Kyrie, also known to be bad on D. And yet Fiz continues to play Frank to balance out the lack of real D by Hardaway or Burke. So far Timmy has found himself in a hot shooting start and being able to stay in front of someone bulldozing to the basket for a charge a few times. But stopping anyone from driving to the basket, no.

Did you or did you not hear Fiz talk about establishing D as the identity of the Knicks? If you believe him so much, believe THAT and I wouldn't be surprised if Frank earned first team or 2nd team all D honors this season.

Cartman718 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:his lack of offense is what put us behind

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

This pretty much shows how much you know about basketball or actually follow games. The reason why Trae was able to manage that against Cleveland is because he was playing against Sexton and Hood, both of whom have pretty much done nothing this season on defense.

Butler torched Cleveland for 33 points on 10 of 12 shooting. Lowry torched them for 27 points on 10 of 12 shooting as well.
So Trae going 13 of 23 is actually well below that percentage before you go ahead and anoint him the next Steph Curry.

Tatum score 8 of 15 against Knicks. Against Frank 1 of 3. Against Dotson 0 of 2.

Burke is our problem here, not Frank. If we promote Trier to the starting lineup, that gives us the best balance on O and D. Burke really tried in the 2nd quarter against Atlanta on D. Since then, it's been generally downhill. He's just incapable. If Burke was lighting it up on O like Trier has been, then your argument would have some merit.

Fiz is all about earning your role and what exactly has Burke done to earn that starting PG spot. At the moment, Burke has 1 good shooting game...against Kyrie, also known to be bad on D. And yet Fiz continues to play Frank to balance out the lack of real D by Hardaway or Burke. So far Timmy has found himself in a hot shooting start and being able to stay in front of someone bulldozing to the basket for a charge a few times. But stopping anyone from driving to the basket, no.

Did you or did you not hear Fiz talk about establishing D as the identity of the Knicks? If you believe him so much, believe THAT and I wouldn't be surprised if Frank earned first team or 2nd team all D honors this season.

Rainman1248: You can't take Trae Young. He was drafted 5th. Can't take him over any knick. You only get to discuss who was on the table when the knicks drafted.

Rainman1248 can find one anecdotal quote and run with it as evidence. Draymonds defense is his strongest trait and GSW defense is the catalyst of the great offense they run. PHX under was not a great defensive team but has to be good enough to create transition and do so at the high rate they did. Miami did not win with Lebron until they bought into a defense identity which was using speed to its advantage closing passing lanes and in the switch. Good defense is not smash mouth as it was in the 1990's.
Draymond speaks to the rules which really prevents locking down players. Frank won't STOP players on his own but it very much adds up.

And yes, outscoring your opponent is paramount! Defense is part of it. Its Phuching basketball for goodness sake, of course it is!

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Fiz needs to give Frank the green light to shoot whenever he gets the ball like with Knox. Do that and he'll be fine

I think he has it.

Of course he has, frank said it himself, "the coach wants me to more aggressive"

Some of you keep saying he's getting better, but his numbers from his first 3 games last yr are slightly better, he actually took more shots and played less minutes, shot a higher percentage. As of today he is shooting 34%, 27% on 3's and has still not taking a FT..

That is considered a major liability on offense

gotta be a little fair its only 3 games. Plus of course you dont mention the net game where his offense got us back in the game in the 3rd quarter. Fiz admitted he put the ball in his hands which he needs to do more

his lack off offense is what put us behind

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

Its fair criticism from 1248, if its to counter the notion that Frank is guaranteed to become more than a role player. Unfair, if its a criticism of Frank as a role player.

As a role player he does a lot of things well. I dont see anything certain as far as Frank's ceiling, either way. Maybe thats why Frank can be frustrating to watch at times. Shows glimpses during games.

As I said in the gamethread, in the NBA, you have to want to be the man to play PG, I dont see that yet from Frank. Usually thats there already.

Still very early, Im sure 1248 would agree the Frank has plenty of time this season to become better at sustaining a certain level of aggression, offensively. Does that and he's at least a borderline all-star, depending on how much he improves.

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Fiz needs to give Frank the green light to shoot whenever he gets the ball like with Knox. Do that and he'll be fine

I think he has it.

Of course he has, frank said it himself, "the coach wants me to more aggressive"

Some of you keep saying he's getting better, but his numbers from his first 3 games last yr are slightly better, he actually took more shots and played less minutes, shot a higher percentage. As of today he is shooting 34%, 27% on 3's and has still not taking a FT..

That is considered a major liability on offense

gotta be a little fair its only 3 games. Plus of course you dont mention the net game where his offense got us back in the game in the 3rd quarter. Fiz admitted he put the ball in his hands which he needs to do more

his lack off offense is what put us behind

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

Its fair criticism from 1248, if its to counter the notion that Frank is guaranteed to become more than a role player. Unfair, if its a criticism of Frank as a role player.

As a role player he does a lot of things well. I dont see anything certain as far as Frank's ceiling, either way. Maybe thats why Frank can be frustrating to watch at times. Shows glimpses during games.

As I said in the gamethread, in the NBA, you have to want to be the man to play PG, I dont see that yet from Frank. Usually thats there already.

Still very early, Im sure 1248 would agree the Frank has plenty of time this season to become better at sustaining a certain level of aggression, offensively. Does that and he's at least a borderline all-star, depending on how much he improves.

The league average for scoring last year was about 106 according to bballreference.com. We're averaging a shade under 111, which is good for 9th, I know, only three games. And I realize Frank has to score more. He's showing aggressiveness and I'm encouraged. But to single Frank out as the reason we lost during a period when the entire team was cold seems a bit much. We're clearly scoring enough. We lost those last two games for a number of reasons. Knicks1248 seems to neglect, or just doesn't want to see the one where our overpaid starting SG failed to get key defensive stops at the end of games 2X in row.

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Fiz needs to give Frank the green light to shoot whenever he gets the ball like with Knox. Do that and he'll be fine

I think he has it.

Of course he has, frank said it himself, "the coach wants me to more aggressive"

Some of you keep saying he's getting better, but his numbers from his first 3 games last yr are slightly better, he actually took more shots and played less minutes, shot a higher percentage. As of today he is shooting 34%, 27% on 3's and has still not taking a FT..

That is considered a major liability on offense

gotta be a little fair its only 3 games. Plus of course you dont mention the net game where his offense got us back in the game in the 3rd quarter. Fiz admitted he put the ball in his hands which he needs to do more

his lack off offense is what put us behind

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

Its fair criticism from 1248, if its to counter the notion that Frank is guaranteed to become more than a role player. Unfair, if its a criticism of Frank as a role player.

As a role player he does a lot of things well. I dont see anything certain as far as Frank's ceiling, either way. Maybe thats why Frank can be frustrating to watch at times. Shows glimpses during games.

As I said in the gamethread, in the NBA, you have to want to be the man to play PG, I dont see that yet from Frank. Usually thats there already.

Still very early, Im sure 1248 would agree the Frank has plenty of time this season to become better at sustaining a certain level of aggression, offensively. Does that and he's at least a borderline all-star, depending on how much he improves.

Thanks Gust, they don't criticize frank at all but will kill THJ (doesn't play defense, chucker) Mario(doesn't play defense) Mudiay(sucks) trey(too small can't defend).

I don't have to hate on frank, his play will dictate his minutes and role, that was obvious in the last game. It's just so refreshing that we now have a real coach that won't show favoritism. He will let you play though some of your mistakes, but if your not being aggressive on both ends he will sit you.

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Fiz needs to give Frank the green light to shoot whenever he gets the ball like with Knox. Do that and he'll be fine

I think he has it.

Of course he has, frank said it himself, "the coach wants me to more aggressive"

Some of you keep saying he's getting better, but his numbers from his first 3 games last yr are slightly better, he actually took more shots and played less minutes, shot a higher percentage. As of today he is shooting 34%, 27% on 3's and has still not taking a FT..

That is considered a major liability on offense

gotta be a little fair its only 3 games. Plus of course you dont mention the net game where his offense got us back in the game in the 3rd quarter. Fiz admitted he put the ball in his hands which he needs to do more

his lack off offense is what put us behind

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

Its fair criticism from 1248, if its to counter the notion that Frank is guaranteed to become more than a role player. Unfair, if its a criticism of Frank as a role player.

As a role player he does a lot of things well. I dont see anything certain as far as Frank's ceiling, either way. Maybe thats why Frank can be frustrating to watch at times. Shows glimpses during games.

As I said in the gamethread, in the NBA, you have to want to be the man to play PG, I dont see that yet from Frank. Usually thats there already.

Still very early, Im sure 1248 would agree the Frank has plenty of time this season to become better at sustaining a certain level of aggression, offensively. Does that and he's at least a borderline all-star, depending on how much he improves.

The league average for scoring last year was about 106 according to bballreference.com. We're averaging a shade under 111, which is good for 9th, I know, only three games. And I realize Frank has to score more. He's showing aggressiveness and I'm encouraged. But to single Frank out as the reason we lost during a period when the entire team was cold seems a bit much. We're clearly scoring enough. We lost those last two games for a number of reasons. Knicks1248 seems to neglect, or just doesn't want to see the one where our overpaid starting SG failed to get key defensive stops at the end of games 2X in row.

This is the bull sht finger pointing I'm talking about, THJ has been carrying the offensive load for lance and frank, and you point out his one play he didn't get a stop on a really good player.

If frank was so good defensively, how come the coach didn't give him that assignment.

It's so stupid to think a die hard knick fan is not pulling for his players. It's frustrating to see a player with his potential, his length, and his abilities not take advantage of it.

The only way your going to get frank to play more aggressive is to take away his minutes if he doesn't, just like you take away minutes from a player who's not defending.

Now if he was getting 4 blocks, 4 steals, 5 deflections, redirecting shots, 7 assist, I wouldn't care if he every shot the ball because his defense is compensating.

knicks1248 wrote:

his lack off offense is what put us behind

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Fiz needs to give Frank the green light to shoot whenever he gets the ball like with Knox. Do that and he'll be fine

I think he has it.

Of course he has, frank said it himself, "the coach wants me to more aggressive"

Some of you keep saying he's getting better, but his numbers from his first 3 games last yr are slightly better, he actually took more shots and played less minutes, shot a higher percentage. As of today he is shooting 34%, 27% on 3's and has still not taking a FT..

That is considered a major liability on offense

gotta be a little fair its only 3 games. Plus of course you dont mention the net game where his offense got us back in the game in the 3rd quarter. Fiz admitted he put the ball in his hands which he needs to do more

his lack off offense is what put us behind

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

Its fair criticism from 1248, if its to counter the notion that Frank is guaranteed to become more than a role player. Unfair, if its a criticism of Frank as a role player.

As a role player he does a lot of things well. I dont see anything certain as far as Frank's ceiling, either way. Maybe thats why Frank can be frustrating to watch at times. Shows glimpses during games.

As I said in the gamethread, in the NBA, you have to want to be the man to play PG, I dont see that yet from Frank. Usually thats there already.

Still very early, Im sure 1248 would agree the Frank has plenty of time this season to become better at sustaining a certain level of aggression, offensively. Does that and he's at least a borderline all-star, depending on how much he improves.

The league average for scoring last year was about 106 according to bballreference.com. We're averaging a shade under 111, which is good for 9th, I know, only three games. And I realize Frank has to score more. He's showing aggressiveness and I'm encouraged. But to single Frank out as the reason we lost during a period when the entire team was cold seems a bit much. We're clearly scoring enough. We lost those last two games for a number of reasons. Knicks1248 seems to neglect, or just doesn't want to see the one where our overpaid starting SG failed to get key defensive stops at the end of games 2X in row.

This is the bull sht finger pointing I'm talking about, THJ has been carrying the offensive load for lance and frank, and you point out his one play he didn't get a stop on a really good player.

If frank was so good defensively, how come the coach didn't give him that assignment.

It's so stupid to think a die hard knick fan is not pulling for his players. It's frustrating to see a player with his potential, his length, and his abilities not take advantage of it.

The only way your going to get frank to play more aggressive is to take away his minutes if he doesn't, just like you take away minutes from a player who's not defending.

Now if he was getting 4 blocks, 4 steals, 5 deflections, redirecting shots, 7 assist, I wouldn't care if he every shot the ball because his defense is compensating.

knicks1248 wrote:

his lack off offense is what put us behind

Simply not true. The entire unit was cold, but you wanted to single out Frank for some reason. But you failed to mention Burke's mediocre play and THJ's slack defense. It wasn't play that THJ didn't get the stop. I'm just highlighting the plays that cost us two games.Yes, Frank needs to improve. But he isn't the sole reason we lost. You harp on our offense, even though we're scoring at decent clip. Just face it, you have Sith level hate when it comes to Frank.

The league avg in scoring was around 106 last season, the pelicans are avg 140 points in their first 2 games, they scored 149 in a regulation game.

Scoring in the NBA is through the roof. We are avg 110 points (which would have been tops last season) this season that's good for 17th (below avg)

The defense will keep you in some games, but lets be honest dude, teams are putting 4 to 5 players on the floor that can knock down threes, hit FT's(the ticky tack fouls are way up) and everyone is playing just as fast as us.

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Fiz needs to give Frank the green light to shoot whenever he gets the ball like with Knox. Do that and he'll be fine

I think he has it.

Of course he has, frank said it himself, "the coach wants me to more aggressive"

Some of you keep saying he's getting better, but his numbers from his first 3 games last yr are slightly better, he actually took more shots and played less minutes, shot a higher percentage. As of today he is shooting 34%, 27% on 3's and has still not taking a FT..

That is considered a major liability on offense

gotta be a little fair its only 3 games. Plus of course you dont mention the net game where his offense got us back in the game in the 3rd quarter. Fiz admitted he put the ball in his hands which he needs to do more

his lack off offense is what put us behind

I would take trae youngs (same age as frank) 35 pts and 11 ast over franks decent defense,5 points and 2 steals.

If Dotson comes in and does his thing along with trier, eventually you,re going to have to reduce franks minutes.

Fiz is all about earning your role. You need to stopped with giving him excuse for his horrible offense just like you don't give morio excuses for being a suspect defender

Its fair criticism from 1248, if its to counter the notion that Frank is guaranteed to become more than a role player. Unfair, if its a criticism of Frank as a role player.

As a role player he does a lot of things well. I dont see anything certain as far as Frank's ceiling, either way. Maybe thats why Frank can be frustrating to watch at times. Shows glimpses during games.

As I said in the gamethread, in the NBA, you have to want to be the man to play PG, I dont see that yet from Frank. Usually thats there already.

Still very early, Im sure 1248 would agree the Frank has plenty of time this season to become better at sustaining a certain level of aggression, offensively. Does that and he's at least a borderline all-star, depending on how much he improves.

The league average for scoring last year was about 106 according to bballreference.com. We're averaging a shade under 111, which is good for 9th, I know, only three games. And I realize Frank has to score more. He's showing aggressiveness and I'm encouraged. But to single Frank out as the reason we lost during a period when the entire team was cold seems a bit much. We're clearly scoring enough. We lost those last two games for a number of reasons. Knicks1248 seems to neglect, or just doesn't want to see the one where our overpaid starting SG failed to get key defensive stops at the end of games 2X in row.

This is the bull sht finger pointing I'm talking about, THJ has been carrying the offensive load for lance and frank, and you point out his one play he didn't get a stop on a really good player.

If frank was so good defensively, how come the coach didn't give him that assignment.

It's so stupid to think a die hard knick fan is not pulling for his players. It's frustrating to see a player with his potential, his length, and his abilities not take advantage of it.

The only way your going to get frank to play more aggressive is to take away his minutes if he doesn't, just like you take away minutes from a player who's not defending.

Now if he was getting 4 blocks, 4 steals, 5 deflections, redirecting shots, 7 assist, I wouldn't care if he every shot the ball because his defense is compensating.

knicks1248 wrote:

his lack off offense is what put us behind

Simply not true. The entire unit was cold, but you wanted to single out Frank for some reason. But you failed to mention Burke's mediocre play and THJ's slack defense. It wasn't play that THJ didn't get the stop. I'm just highlighting the plays that cost us two games.Yes, Frank needs to improve. But he isn't the sole reason we lost. You harp on our offense, even though we're scoring at decent clip. Just face it, you have Sith level hate when it comes to Frank.

The league avg in scoring was around 106 last season, the pelicans are avg 140 points in their first 2 games, they scored 149 in a regulation game.

Scoring in the NBA is through the roof. We are avg 110 points (which would have been tops last season) this season that's good for 17th (below avg)

The defense will keep you in some games, but lets be honest dude, teams are putting 4 to 5 players on the floor that can knock down threes, hit FT's(the ticky tack fouls are way up) and everyone is playing just as fast as us.

Speed is not the answer all the time. Lakers are #1 in possessions per game. Have they won a game? Speed + Control is the answer. and that control sometimes comes from slowing it down and sometimes comes from D