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OT: Jimmy Butler requests trade
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djsunyc
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9/19/2018  1:52 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/19/2018  8:21 PM

AUTOADVERT
TheGame
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9/19/2018  1:59 PM
Unless they are willing to take back Tim Hardaway and don't want a first round pick I would pass. The most I would offer is Lee or Hardaway, a second round pick, and maybe one other young player not named Knox, Mitchell, Frank, or Burke.
Playoffs or bust
Chandler
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9/19/2018  2:16 PM
guy is talented, but 29 and seems prickly with teammates. I vote resist the temptation of quick fix for relevance
Martin: Hezonja will be in the NBA next year.
NYKBocker
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9/19/2018  2:22 PM
Butler for THJr and Mudiay or THJr and Burke.

That's the only thing I am sending their way.

djsunyc
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9/19/2018  2:25 PM
knicks1248
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9/19/2018  2:35 PM
I'll give up lee and a protected 1st rnd, but here's the thing, if we get him here, and he gives us a friendly contract so we can sign Kyrie, just think

Kyrie
THJ
butler
Knox
KP..

That starting line will attract very good role players that will sign for much less, turning us into contenders in less than one season

that starting 5 is winning the east for the next 3 seasons at worse. you have leadership, and a balance roster, solid coaching staff, trey, tier, mitch, kornet off the bench..

Jesus, what more can you ask for..

ES
Marv
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9/19/2018  2:38 PM
NYKBocker wrote:Butler for THJr and Mudiay or THJr and Burke.

That's the only thing I am sending their way.

but wait . . . we're saving thjr for klay . . .

“This board has become a repository for mentally unstable attention seekers. Or gimmick posters.” - sebstar
dwiley20
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9/19/2018  2:41 PM
yes about time!! Lee, 2 future second rounders and Kanter
franco12
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9/19/2018  2:41 PM
I think Butler is over rated. And 29, and with TOOO MANY minutes on his body.

Who was the last person that fit that description that forced their way here? And how did that end for us!

djsunyc
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9/19/2018  3:00 PM
this adds some fuel to the kyrie + butler team up in 2019. right now, clippers and nets can out right sign both to max deals next year.

knicks would have to still shed some salary to make it work since they won't be able to trade for kyrie mid-season to get his bird's rights.

clippers and nets may actually be able to bring in a 3rd person also with kyrie + butler...possibly kawhi.

TripleThreat
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9/19/2018  3:16 PM
TheGame wrote:Unless they are willing to take back Tim Hardaway and don't want a first round pick I would pass. The most I would offer is Lee or Hardaway, a second round pick, and maybe one other young player not named Knox, Mitchell, Frank, or Burke.


Everyone here is a Yankees fan right?

No lost love for the Orioles or Peter Angelos? Angelos is pretty much hated by the rest of MLB. Now he got Adam Jones and bunch of other stuff in a gutting deal for Erik Bedard, but what happens with guys like him, who keeps offering lopsided deals or making his GMs do it is the other teams simply call them back way later. You can't not call someone back. No matter how much of a douchebag they are in their offers. But you can simply call them back a week later. Calling someone back a week later from front office to front office is one of the BIGGEST middle fingers you can give to someone else in professional sports.

An offer like yours would literally kill off all communication with that team as long as that non Knicks front office structure is in place.

This is why Phil Jackson hurt himself badly, on top of other things he did. He offered STAT, THJr and a first round pick for Kevin Love when Love was on the block. Minnesota politely said No and laughed it off in private. It's just "Phil being Phil" You do that old men. Laugh it off a little. Good one Phil. But Phil kept doing it. Kept pushing it. Word got out. Because PEOPLE TALK. Then Phil Jackson couldn't answer some basic questions when asked. Because he had no background in scouting, the cap, how to deal with agents, how to deal with brands, how to deal with other owners from a front office position. So Phil stopped talking to people to avoid not knowing what to say. So there you have it, Phil Jackson being avoided and Jackson avoiding other people. Which is how we all got the Noah/Rose crap. Phil knew the GM ( Paxton) and the agent (BJ Armstrong) and had a history with the franchise. It was a trade that happened in part because no one else would talk to him and he wouldn't talk to many others. WHAT DID ANYONE THINK WOULD HAPPEN WHEN YOU PUSH A 70 YEAR OLD WITH NO FRONT OFFICE EXPERIENCE INTO SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

If you don't actually apply the "Mirror Test" in professional sports, no one will ever talk to you again.

Butler plays hard as hell. Always. Constant throttle. TWolves will want Kanter, Knox and a first unprotected. They'll take Lee also if they can dump Dieng. In any deal they'll want Kanter first and foremost because he's expiring. For that reason, Lee and THJr are not desirable.

The value is in Butler's BIRD RIGHTS. If you want to build around a strong core of three elite players, you'll need the Bird Rights for at least two of them to make it work somewhat under the cap structure. Ideally you want the Bird Rights to every guy on your team.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
TheGame
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9/19/2018  3:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/19/2018  3:23 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
TheGame wrote:Unless they are willing to take back Tim Hardaway and don't want a first round pick I would pass. The most I would offer is Lee or Hardaway, a second round pick, and maybe one other young player not named Knox, Mitchell, Frank, or Burke.


Everyone here is a Yankees fan right?

No lost love for the Orioles or Peter Angelos? Angelos is pretty much hated by the rest of MLB. Now he got Adam Jones and bunch of other stuff in a gutting deal for Erik Bedard, but what happens with guys like him, who keeps offering lopsided deals or making his GMs do it is the other teams simply call them back way later. You can't not call someone back. No matter how much of a douchebag they are in their offers. But you can simply call them back a week later. Calling someone back a week later from front office to front office is one of the BIGGEST middle fingers you can give to someone else in professional sports.

An offer like yours would literally kill off all communication with that team as long as that non Knicks front office structure is in place.

This is why Phil Jackson hurt himself badly, on top of other things he did. He offered STAT, THJr and a first round pick for Kevin Love when Love was on the block. Minnesota politely said No and laughed it off in private. It's just "Phil being Phil" You do that old men. Laugh it off a little. Good one Phil. But Phil kept doing it. Kept pushing it. Word got out. Because PEOPLE TALK. Then Phil Jackson couldn't answer some basic questions when asked. Because he had no background in scouting, the cap, how to deal with agents, how to deal with brands, how to deal with other owners from a front office position. So Phil stopped talking to people to avoid not knowing what to say. So there you have it, Phil Jackson being avoided and Jackson avoiding other people. Which is how we all got the Noah/Rose crap. Phil knew the GM ( Paxton) and the agent (BJ Armstrong) and had a history with the franchise. It was a trade that happened in part because no one else would talk to him and he wouldn't talk to many others. WHAT DID ANYONE THINK WOULD HAPPEN WHEN YOU PUSH A 70 YEAR OLD WITH NO FRONT OFFICE EXPERIENCE INTO SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

If you don't actually apply the "Mirror Test" in professional sports, no one will ever talk to you again.

Butler plays hard as hell. Always. Constant throttle. TWolves will want Kanter, Knox and a first unprotected. They'll take Lee also if they can dump Dieng. In any deal they'll want Kanter first and foremost because he's expiring. For that reason, Lee and THJr are not desirable.

The value is in Butler's BIRD RIGHTS. If you want to build around a strong core of three elite players, you'll need the Bird Rights for at least two of them to make it work somewhat under the cap structure. Ideally you want the Bird Rights to every guy on your team.

We can get Butler this summer without giving up anything and he would not be one of my main targets. If Minny thinks it can get more, good for them but why would the Knicks offer picks for the guy. My offer is me really saying we would rather try to sign him in the offseason, which is exactly what we should have done with Melo. We are not one player away from a championship. Our young guys need another year or two of seasoning. So why trade the farm for Butler, who is 29.

Playoffs or bust
TripleThreat
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9/19/2018  3:30 PM
TheGame wrote:We can get Butler this summer without giving up anything and he would not be one of my main targets. If Minny thinks it can get more, good for them but why would the Knicks offer picks for the guy. My offer is me really saying we would rather try to sign him in the offseason, which is exactly what we should have done with Melo.


The Knicks can sign him as a street free agent for just cap space WITHOUT his Bird Rights.

This would be feasible if the Knicks had a loaded roster and were stocked with tons of draft assets already and a very clean cap situation.

They don't.

Bird Rights are pretty important here. I'm not saying the TWolves will get a kings ransom here, but it changes some of the leverage points.

One outlying factor is apparently LBJ and Butler don't like each other, no matter what else is said in the press. LBJ is a generational player, but not really a true team player. He does distribute and he does run the offense, but he's not someone who can spearhead a true free flowing offense. Butler will get in peoples faces.

Personality wise, I love Butler. True outcome independent. He wants to win and if you want it just as bad, you are his best friend. If not, you are his worst enemy.

Larger issue is Karl Anthony Towns and his behavior is going to help trigger the next labor war. Non established guys like this holding their teams hostage is just a no go for the owners. You have to at least out of your rookie contract before you can take a team hostage.

Melo's trade was in a different CBA structure. Apples and oranges.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
Allanfan20
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9/19/2018  3:30 PM
I don’t see how it’s possible without giving up our first and multiple young guns while taking on contracts. That makes it not worth it at all. It took too long to put ourselves where we are now and Butler alone is not worth destroying that.
Title odds are 200:1. So you're saying there's a chance!
knicks1248
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9/19/2018  3:39 PM
TheGame wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
TheGame wrote:Unless they are willing to take back Tim Hardaway and don't want a first round pick I would pass. The most I would offer is Lee or Hardaway, a second round pick, and maybe one other young player not named Knox, Mitchell, Frank, or Burke.


Everyone here is a Yankees fan right?

No lost love for the Orioles or Peter Angelos? Angelos is pretty much hated by the rest of MLB. Now he got Adam Jones and bunch of other stuff in a gutting deal for Erik Bedard, but what happens with guys like him, who keeps offering lopsided deals or making his GMs do it is the other teams simply call them back way later. You can't not call someone back. No matter how much of a douchebag they are in their offers. But you can simply call them back a week later. Calling someone back a week later from front office to front office is one of the BIGGEST middle fingers you can give to someone else in professional sports.

An offer like yours would literally kill off all communication with that team as long as that non Knicks front office structure is in place.

This is why Phil Jackson hurt himself badly, on top of other things he did. He offered STAT, THJr and a first round pick for Kevin Love when Love was on the block. Minnesota politely said No and laughed it off in private. It's just "Phil being Phil" You do that old men. Laugh it off a little. Good one Phil. But Phil kept doing it. Kept pushing it. Word got out. Because PEOPLE TALK. Then Phil Jackson couldn't answer some basic questions when asked. Because he had no background in scouting, the cap, how to deal with agents, how to deal with brands, how to deal with other owners from a front office position. So Phil stopped talking to people to avoid not knowing what to say. So there you have it, Phil Jackson being avoided and Jackson avoiding other people. Which is how we all got the Noah/Rose crap. Phil knew the GM ( Paxton) and the agent (BJ Armstrong) and had a history with the franchise. It was a trade that happened in part because no one else would talk to him and he wouldn't talk to many others. WHAT DID ANYONE THINK WOULD HAPPEN WHEN YOU PUSH A 70 YEAR OLD WITH NO FRONT OFFICE EXPERIENCE INTO SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

If you don't actually apply the "Mirror Test" in professional sports, no one will ever talk to you again.

Butler plays hard as hell. Always. Constant throttle. TWolves will want Kanter, Knox and a first unprotected. They'll take Lee also if they can dump Dieng. In any deal they'll want Kanter first and foremost because he's expiring. For that reason, Lee and THJr are not desirable.

The value is in Butler's BIRD RIGHTS. If you want to build around a strong core of three elite players, you'll need the Bird Rights for at least two of them to make it work somewhat under the cap structure. Ideally you want the Bird Rights to every guy on your team.

We can get Butler this summer without giving up anything and he would not be one of my main targets. If Minny thinks it can get more, good for them but why would the Knicks offer picks for the guy. My offer is me really saying we would rather try to sign him in the offseason, which is exactly what we should have done with Melo. We are not one player away from a championship. Our young guys need another year or two of seasoning. So why trade the farm for Butler, who is 29.

Yeah this seems like the melo scenario all over again, you got a all star in his prime requesting a trade to the knicks or Nets,and if the Nets pony up, they have a leg up on Kyrie,

ES
newyorknewyork
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9/19/2018  3:41 PM
Nets will probably make it happen. They will probably be okay with taking Deing's contract offering Hollis, Carroll and Faried or Dudley for Butler and Deng. Probably offer one of their recent euro draft picks.
SupremeCommander
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9/19/2018  3:50 PM
no matter what, I'd wait. No need to pay full price. I'd prefer to sign him in UFA. But at the deadline maybe he becomes available for cents on the dollar and I'd be okay with a deal like that. Courtney Lee and an always protected first or some crap
GustavBahler said: Check please....
Nalod
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9/19/2018  4:13 PM
Triple brings up the point about bird rights. Wait, and you have a choice of Kyrie or Butler. Trade, you can have both.
Im not advocating for this guy because I don't know why wanted out of Chicago and now Minny. Whats his deal? Whats Townes problem?
Not sure I get why these two can't figure it out. Thibs is a bloated dick. Sure he is "NY" and a workaholic but he does not fit anymore.
As for him, max money and at age 29? not really feeling it. I don't know what he wants price wise so how can I say?
Im protective of our youthful core of Knox, Frank, MitRob and KP. Beyond those guys and any other pick Im ok to trade. Personally I value Hardaway more than most of you and think he can be near Butler like in production.
Building a core around Kyrie and Butler? Not feeling it.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
Gudris
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9/19/2018  4:18 PM
Kanter + Lee for Butler yes, no picks or young players, please
StarksEwing1
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9/19/2018  4:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/19/2018  4:36 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I'll give up lee and a protected 1st rnd, but here's the thing, if we get him here, and he gives us a friendly contract so we can sign Kyrie, just think

Kyrie
THJ
butler
Knox
KP..

That starting line will attract very good role players that will sign for much less, turning us into contenders in less than one season

that starting 5 is winning the east for the next 3 seasons at worse. you have leadership, and a balance roster, solid coaching staff, trey, tier, mitch, kornet off the bench..

Jesus, what more can you ask for..

Unsurprisingly you left out Frank . No first round picks...those days are over
OT: Jimmy Butler requests trade

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