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Suns and Houston...Chriss/Knight for Anderson/Melton
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WaltLongmire
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8/31/2018  12:42 AM

Seems to me that Houston got the better of this one, though I don't know squat about Melton or whether Knight has anything left in his legs.

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jskinny35
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8/31/2018  1:06 AM
Talent-wise it seems like Houston robbed the Suns, but I think it's a trade that will actually help both teams equally. Chriss is super talented but is a hot head and needs to be on a veteran team that can afford to bench him unless he matures - that wasn't happening on Phx because they were forced to play Bender (who isn't as good). If D. Ayton is 1/2 as good defensively and rebounding-wise, Ryan Anderson could actually complement him well - like he did with D.Howard years ago...
CrushAlot
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8/31/2018  1:30 AM
Melton is a guy that scouts love. The Suns needed to move on from Chris's. I like this deal for the suns. Anderson isn't awful but his contract is. Melton is a better prospect than Chriss and isn't a guy who's problems out weigh his positives.
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smackeddog
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8/31/2018  4:53 AM
jskinny35 wrote:Talent-wise it seems like Houston robbed the Suns, but I think it's a trade that will actually help both teams equally. Chriss is super talented but is a hot head and needs to be on a veteran team that can afford to bench him unless he matures - that wasn't happening on Phx because they were forced to play Bender (who isn't as good). If D. Ayton is 1/2 as good defensively and rebounding-wise, Ryan Anderson could actually complement him well - like he did with D.Howard years ago...


I think this is a bad trade for Houston- Chriss is trash so far and hasn't improved at all. Knight has been awful for years- neither can shoot. Rockets have added 2 players who can't shoot yet still haven't managed to really clear any salary (Knight is 2 yrs $15mil per, Ryan Anderson was 20mil- Chriss's salary mean's they're only saving a couple of mil)- they should have just kept Anderson.

I like it for the Suns though- Anderson fits better than Chriss and adds some veteran leadership. Weird trade for Morey.

wargames
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8/31/2018  6:58 AM
Between getting Ariza and Anderson I feel like all signs are pointing to the Suns wanting to take that leap like the sixers did and become competitive. The rumor is they want a vet PG too. So that is another sign they want to make a playoff run.
smackeddog
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8/31/2018  11:05 AM
This offseason the Rockets have added MCW, Melo, Knight And Chriss- can anyone tell me what skills those players have or what they are good at? It seems to be a bunch of players that aren't really good at anything
CrushAlot
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8/31/2018  11:17 AM
smackeddog wrote:This offseason the Rockets have added MCW, Melo, Knight And Chriss- can anyone tell me what skills those players have or what they are good at? It seems to be a bunch of players that aren't really good at anything
It is hard to understand what they are doing. Pelton liked this trade for the rockets more than the suns. He pointed out that the suns could have just drafted Melton if they wanted him and let Chris's expire. He also said it saves the rockets about 5 mil this year and that it would be easier to trade Knights deal down the road then Anderson's. I think the suns won this deal. Maybe Knight is insurance for Paul's eventual stint on the dl. Not typical Morey moves.
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newyorknewyork
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8/31/2018  11:29 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/31/2018  11:30 AM
smackeddog wrote:This offseason the Rockets have added MCW, Melo, Knight And Chriss- can anyone tell me what skills those players have or what they are good at? It seems to be a bunch of players that aren't really good at anything

Im guessing MCW was added to compliment Eric Gordan. Oversized penetrating PG paired with an undersized 3pt shooting SG.
I feel Knight was added for the cheaper salary but also maybe MDA the PG whisperer can raise his game within his system. Melo took all of Anderson's use.
Chriss has raw tools of 3s, blks, rebounds. If MDA can get him to put it together as an off ball utility man he could fill a huge role at the PF/C spot.

As for the Suns.
I love the additions of Melton & Oboko for the back court this off season. With Ariza, Bridges, Warren, Jackson though. I have a feeling Warren will be moved.
Anderson provides needed shooting since Knight provided them with nothing.

BigDaddyG
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8/31/2018  1:28 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
smackeddog wrote:This offseason the Rockets have added MCW, Melo, Knight And Chriss- can anyone tell me what skills those players have or what they are good at? It seems to be a bunch of players that aren't really good at anything

Im guessing MCW was added to compliment Eric Gordan. Oversized penetrating PG paired with an undersized 3pt shooting SG.
I feel Knight was added for the cheaper salary but also maybe MDA the PG whisperer can raise his game within his system. Melo took all of Anderson's use.
Chriss has raw tools of 3s, blks, rebounds. If MDA can get him to put it together as an off ball utility man he could fill a huge role at the PF/C spot.

As for the Suns.
I love the additions of Melton & Oboko for the back court this off season. With Ariza, Bridges, Warren, Jackson though. I have a feeling Warren will be moved.
Anderson provides needed shooting since Knight provided them with nothing.

Yeah, it saves Houston a little salary and it gives a couple of players who could be useful for one who was rotting on the bench. Scouts loved Melton, but he doesn't really stretch the floor and still needs to develop as a playmaker. probably saw Chriss as potential roll man who could slide into Capella's slot off the bench. Knight is probably uselss at this point, but they weren't using Anderson anyway. At least save about $5 million of his deal.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
TripleThreat
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9/1/2018  2:06 AM
smackeddog wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Talent-wise it seems like Houston robbed the Suns, but I think it's a trade that will actually help both teams equally. Chriss is super talented but is a hot head and needs to be on a veteran team that can afford to bench him unless he matures - that wasn't happening on Phx because they were forced to play Bender (who isn't as good). If D. Ayton is 1/2 as good defensively and rebounding-wise, Ryan Anderson could actually complement him well - like he did with D.Howard years ago...


I think this is a bad trade for Houston- Chriss is trash so far and hasn't improved at all. Knight has been awful for years- neither can shoot. Rockets have added 2 players who can't shoot yet still haven't managed to really clear any salary (Knight is 2 yrs $15mil per, Ryan Anderson was 20mil- Chriss's salary mean's they're only saving a couple of mil)- they should have just kept Anderson.

I like it for the Suns though- Anderson fits better than Chriss and adds some veteran leadership. Weird trade for Morey.

I've never seen Chriss make a good decision on the basketball court. That's pretty horrible if you think about it. Never.

Melton can play defense and doesn't need the ball in his hands to contribute. At least as shown thus far. Rockets need the guard depth but might have been better off just letting Harden run the offense if Paul was resting or injured.

Anderson is overpaid but his role, limited as such, he's very good at it. Part of the fallout is Melo becomes the starting power forward by default.

Chriss has, in theory, the highest ceiling of any of the players, but you can't fix stupid. Pringles though, you have to wonder if he can fix Brandon Knight. It's possible.

I really like Melton, so I'm biased here. But the young core of Ayton, Okobo, Bridges and Melton, plus baby Shaq and Jackson/Booker, it's an interesting set of young players.

Rumors I'm hearing are that Chris Paul has newish owner Fertitta's ear, and is basically running these trades.

Anderson is overpaid, but he spaced the floor and he was familiar with this system. He's a good locker room guy. You add Melo to this mix and a dipwad like Chriss to follow Melo's example, not sure how this is good at all.

You gotta feel for Pringles sometimes. He had a solid citizen in Nash for years. Then ended up with ****heels like Kobe, Harden and Melo for the rest of his career. #MeFirst #MeAlways #LeonRoseIsMyDaddy #IfIPayHerOffEnoughItsNotTechnicallyRape #IfIWasMeantToPassIdBeAQuarterback #StripperJustBoughtACondoFromAllTheMoneyIShoveDownHerGString #IgnoringHerNosIsWhatIThinkOfDefense

Chris Paul is going down the Ray Allen path. Because you don't say much, people assume you are thoughtful and a likeable person. No, you are just a quiet *******.

Point to always make, you can have a great GM, but it's sort of pointless if you have a stupid owner listening to a stupid player.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
smackeddog
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9/1/2018  3:52 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/1/2018  3:54 AM
I didn't realise Knight missed all of last year with a torn ACL.

Also:

Why would Anderson Agree to a $6mil pay cut?!

Don't get why so many people are saying this deal is a clear win for the Rockets- I think it's awful for them. Pretty good for the Suns though.

BigDaddyG
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9/1/2018  10:39 AM
smackeddog wrote:I didn't realise Knight missed all of last year with a torn ACL.

Also:

Why would Anderson Agree to a $6mil pay cut?!

Don't get why so many people are saying this deal is a clear win for the Rockets- I think it's awful for them. Pretty good for the Suns though.


He probably agreed to it because he wanted out of that situation. He's pretty much been dogged by Houston the past few years. Houston could've bought him out, but at least they get a few assets back this way.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
GustavBahler
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9/2/2018  9:33 AM
smackeddog wrote:I didn't realise Knight missed all of last year with a torn ACL.

Also:

Why would Anderson Agree to a $6mil pay cut?!

Don't get why so many people are saying this deal is a clear win for the Rockets- I think it's awful for them. Pretty good for the Suns though.

Good for Melo.Would probably have trouble shooting the 3 like Anderson. Which might mean less minutes, and more drama.

TripleThreat
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9/2/2018  1:39 PM
smackeddog wrote:

Why would Anderson Agree to a $6mil pay cut?!

Don't get why so many people are saying this deal is a clear win for the Rockets- I think it's awful for them. Pretty good for the Suns though.


From what I'm hearing, the Rockets told Anderson if he stayed, he would not start.

Melo could have signed with lots of teams for the vet minimum. The Rockets were key because apparently they were the only contender type team who would let him start. Nothing to do with Morey and Pringles, because starting Melo makes no sense. But Chris Paul and Fertitta believe they know better. To be fair to Fertitta, he's paying out the nose for this team, so it's his baby to throw out with the bath water.

Lots of players also are getting backdoor kickbacks in the form of crypto-currency. Am not saying it's specifically the case here, but it's happening real quiet in ALL of the major sports. It's also made paying off college players much easier and more insulated. Dirk in Dallas, over his career span, has left something insane like 150+ million on the table, probably nearing 200 million of total career earnings he could have demanded and gotten. Anyone really think Mark Cuban is going to just let Dirk walk leaving that much money on the table? Everyone knows what's going on in Dallas, but Dirk is well respected and he's a Euro, so he's seen as a "novelty" by most of the NBAPA. ( My personal observation and experience with the NBA is it is, by far, the most racist, openly so at times, of all the major sports. Euros get treated like trash. Except Darko, because Darko is a straight up ****ing gangster. Shaq has been affliated with street gangs for a long time, and even they steered clear the **** of Darko. Darko is the one who knocks. ) Part of it is trusting ownership will do what they say when you retire. As Cuban is a much different type of owner, I can see the situation being very unique. Cuban is also young enough where the risk of dying on Dirk and not paying out later is less likely.

The rough idea is Anderson would likely have been bought out anyway and he'd have to leave money on the table anyway to get his freedom, might as well do it now.

The difference between starting versus not is worth real cash money to lots of guys. Beasley could have gotten a two year deal when he signed with the Knicks, not a great two year deal, but more security in length. But the Knicks were a better pathway to starting and playing time.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
Nalod
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9/3/2018  8:20 PM
Players can take a cut? Thought the union did not allow that?
Triple is either wired in or very delusional.
What, no sneaker conspiracy?
Makes sense though. In the absence of logic there is always a deep state.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
TripleThreat
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9/3/2018  10:20 PM
Nalod wrote:Players can take a cut? Thought the union did not allow that?
Triple is either wired in or very delusional.
What, no sneaker conspiracy?
Makes sense though. In the absence of logic there is always a deep state.


Everyone in pro sports has their hand out and plenty of people want to put something into it.

High school kids seen as future NBA prospects are getting cash in hand. Sometimes sports gear. Sometimes free swag and free food. Free trips. In extreme cases, if the situation is the typical struggling single parent, it means getting the mom a job and a safe apartment and a working car. Think about it, for some kids, they are in a fatherless home, living in a ****hole, in a lousy neighborhood, with other kids jealous of their athletic success and gunning for them. Then they get a chance for their mom and kid brother and sisters to live in a real house. And sometimes it's just spoiled privileged douchebag kids with their hands out in full greed mode.

Many highly ranked prospects know their leverage and use it to demand cash from prospective future to be agents. Shills from the brands sneak forward and try to build relationships when these guys are young.

It doesn't even have to be a Tier 1 prospect from a top university likely to be a lottery pick. In AAU, plenty of teams have handlers and coaches who convince parents that their kid just needs a little "extra coaching" and "know a guy who can help" Usually a former college basketball player or a fringe former pro. Parents or grandparents pay for their kid to get this extra help, thinking they are helping their kid reach a dream. Mostly it's a scam, taking advantage of people's hopes and dreams and raw manipulation of kids.

Pro teams get interns all the time and use them and chew them out.

Prospects who take tours of universities get "hosts" to show them around the campus. Basically hot ass chicks who will **** them silly. Those hot ass chicks often end up with scholarships or essentially comped housing. Plus if you get pregnant, now you got a rich future baby daddy for you. Many universities have no problem pimping out teenage girls as whores to get a prospect to lean their way.

Some players leave money on the table in a buyout. Many do not. Many end up like Joe Smith/Glen Taylor/Kevin McHale without the open written contract.

If I don't see it, I don't have to deal with it. This is the attitude of the league, it's administration, the NBAPA, the coaches, the college system. They know it's happening, they just don't want to know or deal with it.

Crypto-Currency just makes this all infinitely easier to do now.

Why would a team pay cash on the side and not upfront? Because if it's a bad contract, that narrative could mean the difference between a GM losing his job or not. It may have cap implications as well. Lots of teams are cap locked and can only offer the vets minimum. Do you think every one of those guys are only getting the bare minimum? Why do you think the Warriors Bob Myers is such a good GM? He used to be an agent. He knows all the tricks, all the shortcuts, backdoors, handlers, and on and on and on.

Think about the kid in middle school who is dunking the **** out of a basketball and is 6'8 already and colleges are creeping around the family. Then he starts getting something as simple as free food from local restaurants. Do you think it stops there? It's a lifestyle most people can't understand. You go to a party, you just point your finger, you don't say a word. The host whispers to the girl, you go to a room and you **** her. Her and her friends if you want. You can go weeks at a time without ever opening up your own wallet. People out of everywhere just give you stuff for free.

Years ago, during a labor dispute, Patrick Ewing famously said, "Players make a lot of money, but we spend a lot of money too" IIRC, this was also during a recession. Think about how ****ing stupid you have to be to say something like that. How completely out of touch with reality and the average working person. But this is what decades of getting your ass kissed and never being told No does to a person.

The rules only matter if you get caught.

I was told that all through my college days, all through my pro days, all through my time post career. And it's true.

You'll get a situation like a Mike Bibby or a Gil Meche, where real money is left on the table. But in many cases, it's not. It just looks that way.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
SupremeCommander
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9/4/2018  10:23 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:This offseason the Rockets have added MCW, Melo, Knight And Chriss- can anyone tell me what skills those players have or what they are good at? It seems to be a bunch of players that aren't really good at anything
It is hard to understand what they are doing. Pelton liked this trade for the rockets more than the suns. He pointed out that the suns could have just drafted Melton if they wanted him and let Chris's expire. He also said it saves the rockets about 5 mil this year and that it would be easier to trade Knights deal down the road then Anderson's. I think the suns won this deal. Maybe Knight is insurance for Paul's eventual stint on the dl. Not typical Morey moves.

I think Houston loaded up on young unrefined talent. I think this deal in particular was a bet in part on Houston's player development capacity. I also think they needed to shed Anderson's salary to stroke Melo's fragile ego. I do think Rockets won the trade though because at the end of the day Anderson's contract is just ugly to look at.

GustavBahler said: Check please....
technomaster
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9/4/2018  11:37 AM
I think the Rockets have gotten younger and more athletic through this deal. From the limited amount I've seen on Chriss, he sort of reminds me of Tim Thomas. Kind of has the physical attributes and kills that make you think he's a star in the making, but doesn't produce the way you'd think.

Maybe it's not fair to knock Tim Thomas - he ultimately had like a 12 year NBA career and emerged as an NBA starter (and made close to $100m career as a player!)

Knight was going to be my fantasy sleeper pick this year. Finally it looked like he had another clear shot at a starting PG role, but that was not meant to be. (In his last healthy season with the Suns he averaged nearly 20ppg and looked pretty awesome)

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BigDaddyG
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9/4/2018  12:01 PM
technomaster wrote:I think the Rockets have gotten younger and more athletic through this deal. From the limited amount I've seen on Chriss, he sort of reminds me of Tim Thomas. Kind of has the physical attributes and kills that make you think he's a star in the making, but doesn't produce the way you'd think.

Maybe it's not fair to knock Tim Thomas - he ultimately had like a 12 year NBA career and emerged as an NBA starter (and made close to $100m career as a player!)

Knight was going to be my fantasy sleeper pick this year. Finally it looked like he had another clear shot at a starting PG role, but that was not meant to be. (In his last healthy season with the Suns he averaged nearly 20ppg and looked pretty awesome)


Not that high on Brandon. He's like THJ or Enes. You look at his scoring averages and see a 20 a game and get excited. But you take a closer look and you see he's really flawed. His shooting percentages were horrible. The only reason he scored so much is that someone on that team had to. I like that he completed on defense tho. I like the Tim Thomas comparison. Not skill wise, but their inability to hit their ceiling. Funny enough, Tim had one of his best stretches playing for
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
anrst
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9/4/2018  4:45 PM
what did the rockets lose in this deal?

anything they get from Chris and Knight is more than they'd get from Anderson.

Win all day

Suns and Houston...Chriss/Knight for Anderson/Melton

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