TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Does KP deserve a Max contract

Positional value. Rarity of skill set.

Very few players either can or have the potential to ( talking about their floor, not their ceiling) to defend the rim AND space the floor at plus three point range as a subset of being able to create their own shot at will at an elite level.

The Big Three Heat had a suffocating defense. LBJ and Wade could both defend the rim. When Birdman showed up, both could roll in and out with Battier and Bosh. That Wade could once defend the rim is a bizarre anomaly. Bosh, LJB and Wade could create their own shot at will.

I'd say there are maybe 3-4 players in the entire league who fit in this category. Elite rim protector. Elite long range gunner. Can create their own shot at will.

The most valuable "to be" free agent is actually Draymond Green. He doesn't have plus range from three point land, but he can defend all five positions and defend the rim and switch on anyone. His fundamentals and timing are off the chart.

Zinger has not earned the max, but his skill set is so rare, any team in the league will give it to him anyway.

Yep doesn't matter if he earned it or not when someone else will step in and give it to him.

Knixkik wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Does KP deserve a Max contract

Positional value. Rarity of skill set.

Very few players either can or have the potential to ( talking about their floor, not their ceiling) to defend the rim AND space the floor at plus three point range as a subset of being able to create their own shot at will at an elite level.

The Big Three Heat had a suffocating defense. LBJ and Wade could both defend the rim. When Birdman showed up, both could roll in and out with Battier and Bosh. That Wade could once defend the rim is a bizarre anomaly. Bosh, LJB and Wade could create their own shot at will.

I'd say there are maybe 3-4 players in the entire league who fit in this category. Elite rim protector. Elite long range gunner. Can create their own shot at will.

The most valuable "to be" free agent is actually Draymond Green. He doesn't have plus range from three point land, but he can defend all five positions and defend the rim and switch on anyone. His fundamentals and timing are off the chart.

Zinger has not earned the max, but his skill set is so rare, any team in the league will give it to him anyway.

Of course he’s worth the max. He has the potential to be the greatest knick of all time if things go right. He has the perfect skill set for a modern big.

I think both of you have solid points, but the health factor still remains a concern. Of course the potential has me drooling, but his games played (2015)72 (2016)66 (2017)48, and 2018 (probably 40 games, and half of those will be on a minute restriction). Un fortunately, That should not be rewarded with a max contract

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Does KP deserve a Max contract

Positional value. Rarity of skill set.

Very few players either can or have the potential to ( talking about their floor, not their ceiling) to defend the rim AND space the floor at plus three point range as a subset of being able to create their own shot at will at an elite level.

The Big Three Heat had a suffocating defense. LBJ and Wade could both defend the rim. When Birdman showed up, both could roll in and out with Battier and Bosh. That Wade could once defend the rim is a bizarre anomaly. Bosh, LJB and Wade could create their own shot at will.

I'd say there are maybe 3-4 players in the entire league who fit in this category. Elite rim protector. Elite long range gunner. Can create their own shot at will.

The most valuable "to be" free agent is actually Draymond Green. He doesn't have plus range from three point land, but he can defend all five positions and defend the rim and switch on anyone. His fundamentals and timing are off the chart.

Zinger has not earned the max, but his skill set is so rare, any team in the league will give it to him anyway.

Of course he’s worth the max. He has the potential to be the greatest knick of all time if things go right. He has the perfect skill set for a modern big.

I think both of you have solid points, but the health factor still remains a concern. Of course the potential has me drooling, but his games played (2015)72 (2016)66 (2017)48, and 2018 (probably 40 games, and half of those will be on a minute restriction). Un fortunately, That should not be rewarded with a max contract

Any player can get injured though. The league has a short memory on Embiid missing 3 full seasons. Most are penciling them in as a top EC team like Embiid is a lock for 70+ games. You can't pay guys based on what-ifs. There are only a few Lebron-type iron man stars in the league. Everyone is a health risk to an extent and we have a league where the top 30-40 players are all making max money. Whether that's right or wrong, that's the market. Porzingis is one of the few players in the league who can legitimately impact the game at a high level on both ends of the floor. Only a few guys in the league have both MVP potential and DPOY potential, and he isn't even 23 years old yet.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Does KP deserve a Max contract

Positional value. Rarity of skill set.

Very few players either can or have the potential to ( talking about their floor, not their ceiling) to defend the rim AND space the floor at plus three point range as a subset of being able to create their own shot at will at an elite level.

The Big Three Heat had a suffocating defense. LBJ and Wade could both defend the rim. When Birdman showed up, both could roll in and out with Battier and Bosh. That Wade could once defend the rim is a bizarre anomaly. Bosh, LJB and Wade could create their own shot at will.

I'd say there are maybe 3-4 players in the entire league who fit in this category. Elite rim protector. Elite long range gunner. Can create their own shot at will.

The most valuable "to be" free agent is actually Draymond Green. He doesn't have plus range from three point land, but he can defend all five positions and defend the rim and switch on anyone. His fundamentals and timing are off the chart.

Zinger has not earned the max, but his skill set is so rare, any team in the league will give it to him anyway.

Of course he’s worth the max. He has the potential to be the greatest knick of all time if things go right. He has the perfect skill set for a modern big.

I think both of you have solid points, but the health factor still remains a concern. Of course the potential has me drooling, but his games played (2015)72 (2016)66 (2017)48, and 2018 (probably 40 games, and half of those will be on a minute restriction). Un fortunately, That should not be rewarded with a max contract

Any player can get injured though. The league has a short memory on Embiid missing 3 full seasons. Most are penciling them in as a top EC team like Embiid is a lock for 70+ games. You can't pay guys based on what-ifs. There are only a few Lebron-type iron man stars in the league. Everyone is a health risk to an extent and we have a league where the top 30-40 players are all making max money. Whether that's right or wrong, that's the market. Porzingis is one of the few players in the league who can legitimately impact the game at a high level on both ends of the floor. Only a few guys in the league have both MVP potential and DPOY potential, and he isn't even 23 years old yet.

Here's a fair question

At what point has KP shown he could carry a team other than the 2 to 3 wks in november last season.

failing to play in both GSW games last season for the purpose of rest, i mean even walt, wally and breen question that decision, Fatigue in december, elbow injury, shoulder injury, constantly getting toss to the ground to the point i thought he was flopping.

Is it a Batman or a Robin?

There's only a few players in league history who were capable of carrying a team by age 22. I don't think it's a fair question at this point. The way our team competed pre-injury vs. being one of the worst teams in the league post injury speaks for itself of the impact he had. We couldn't win or even compete in games after he went down.

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Does KP deserve a Max contract

Positional value. Rarity of skill set.

Very few players either can or have the potential to ( talking about their floor, not their ceiling) to defend the rim AND space the floor at plus three point range as a subset of being able to create their own shot at will at an elite level.

The Big Three Heat had a suffocating defense. LBJ and Wade could both defend the rim. When Birdman showed up, both could roll in and out with Battier and Bosh. That Wade could once defend the rim is a bizarre anomaly. Bosh, LJB and Wade could create their own shot at will.

I'd say there are maybe 3-4 players in the entire league who fit in this category. Elite rim protector. Elite long range gunner. Can create their own shot at will.

The most valuable "to be" free agent is actually Draymond Green. He doesn't have plus range from three point land, but he can defend all five positions and defend the rim and switch on anyone. His fundamentals and timing are off the chart.

Zinger has not earned the max, but his skill set is so rare, any team in the league will give it to him anyway.

Of course he’s worth the max. He has the potential to be the greatest knick of all time if things go right. He has the perfect skill set for a modern big.

I think both of you have solid points, but the health factor still remains a concern. Of course the potential has me drooling, but his games played (2015)72 (2016)66 (2017)48, and 2018 (probably 40 games, and half of those will be on a minute restriction). Un fortunately, That should not be rewarded with a max contract

Any player can get injured though. The league has a short memory on Embiid missing 3 full seasons. Most are penciling them in as a top EC team like Embiid is a lock for 70+ games. You can't pay guys based on what-ifs. There are only a few Lebron-type iron man stars in the league. Everyone is a health risk to an extent and we have a league where the top 30-40 players are all making max money. Whether that's right or wrong, that's the market. Porzingis is one of the few players in the league who can legitimately impact the game at a high level on both ends of the floor. Only a few guys in the league have both MVP potential and DPOY potential, and he isn't even 23 years old yet.

Here's a fair question

At what point has KP shown he could carry a team other than the 2 to 3 wks in november last season.

failing to play in both GSW games last season for the purpose of rest, i mean even walt, wally and breen question that decision, Fatigue in december, elbow injury, shoulder injury, constantly getting toss to the ground to the point i thought he was flopping.

Is it a Batman or a Robin?

There's only a few players in league history who were capable of carrying a team by age 22. I don't think it's a fair question at this point. The way our team competed pre-injury vs. being one of the worst teams in the league post injury speaks for itself of the impact he had. We couldn't win or even compete in games after he went down.

When he got injured we were 2-8 in his last 10 games, some of them blow outs.

Are you paying for what his done, or what he can potentially do.

Phil paid Melo mostly because of what he had basically done in the past or earned, and also what he can potentially do in the future. They ripped phil apart. Similar situation with THJ, he showed some good flashes and was rewarded with a over-the-top contract.

To max a guy out after an acl injury is not a smart move, and shouldn't be hard to negotiate. i would give KP the same amount of money THJ got

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Does KP deserve a Max contract

Positional value. Rarity of skill set.

Very few players either can or have the potential to ( talking about their floor, not their ceiling) to defend the rim AND space the floor at plus three point range as a subset of being able to create their own shot at will at an elite level.

The Big Three Heat had a suffocating defense. LBJ and Wade could both defend the rim. When Birdman showed up, both could roll in and out with Battier and Bosh. That Wade could once defend the rim is a bizarre anomaly. Bosh, LJB and Wade could create their own shot at will.

I'd say there are maybe 3-4 players in the entire league who fit in this category. Elite rim protector. Elite long range gunner. Can create their own shot at will.

The most valuable "to be" free agent is actually Draymond Green. He doesn't have plus range from three point land, but he can defend all five positions and defend the rim and switch on anyone. His fundamentals and timing are off the chart.

Zinger has not earned the max, but his skill set is so rare, any team in the league will give it to him anyway.

Of course he’s worth the max. He has the potential to be the greatest knick of all time if things go right. He has the perfect skill set for a modern big.

I think both of you have solid points, but the health factor still remains a concern. Of course the potential has me drooling, but his games played (2015)72 (2016)66 (2017)48, and 2018 (probably 40 games, and half of those will be on a minute restriction). Un fortunately, That should not be rewarded with a max contract

Any player can get injured though. The league has a short memory on Embiid missing 3 full seasons. Most are penciling them in as a top EC team like Embiid is a lock for 70+ games. You can't pay guys based on what-ifs. There are only a few Lebron-type iron man stars in the league. Everyone is a health risk to an extent and we have a league where the top 30-40 players are all making max money. Whether that's right or wrong, that's the market. Porzingis is one of the few players in the league who can legitimately impact the game at a high level on both ends of the floor. Only a few guys in the league have both MVP potential and DPOY potential, and he isn't even 23 years old yet.

Here's a fair question

At what point has KP shown he could carry a team other than the 2 to 3 wks in november last season.

failing to play in both GSW games last season for the purpose of rest, i mean even walt, wally and breen question that decision, Fatigue in december, elbow injury, shoulder injury, constantly getting toss to the ground to the point i thought he was flopping.

Is it a Batman or a Robin?

There's only a few players in league history who were capable of carrying a team by age 22. I don't think it's a fair question at this point. The way our team competed pre-injury vs. being one of the worst teams in the league post injury speaks for itself of the impact he had. We couldn't win or even compete in games after he went down.

When he got injured we were 2-8 in his last 10 games, some of them blow outs.

Are you paying for what his done, or what he can potentially do.

Phil paid Melo mostly because of what he had basically done in the past or earned, and also what he can potentially do in the future. They ripped phil apart. Similar situation with THJ, he showed some good flashes and was rewarded with a over-the-top contract.

To max a guy out after an acl injury is not a smart move, and shouldn't be hard to negotiate. i would give KP the same amount of money THJ got

Your using a 2-8 stretch as your basis?
was THjr out? He was the 2nd option.
Was he over used? Perhaps.
Was schedule harder in that stretch than before? No doubt.
Was he putting up all star numbers? Mostly.
The greek Freak is paid based on his potential, not winning.
Anthony Davis got what ever he wanted despite his fragile nature.
KP's trajectory is very very good.
Forget everything, you ever see a guy 7'3 do what he does sometimes? The instincts?, the passing?, the dexterity?, the handle? and the Motor?
I'd rather pay for potential then pay for passed performance given our current timeline.

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Does KP deserve a Max contract

Positional value. Rarity of skill set.

Very few players either can or have the potential to ( talking about their floor, not their ceiling) to defend the rim AND space the floor at plus three point range as a subset of being able to create their own shot at will at an elite level.

The Big Three Heat had a suffocating defense. LBJ and Wade could both defend the rim. When Birdman showed up, both could roll in and out with Battier and Bosh. That Wade could once defend the rim is a bizarre anomaly. Bosh, LJB and Wade could create their own shot at will.

I'd say there are maybe 3-4 players in the entire league who fit in this category. Elite rim protector. Elite long range gunner. Can create their own shot at will.

The most valuable "to be" free agent is actually Draymond Green. He doesn't have plus range from three point land, but he can defend all five positions and defend the rim and switch on anyone. His fundamentals and timing are off the chart.

Zinger has not earned the max, but his skill set is so rare, any team in the league will give it to him anyway.

Of course he’s worth the max. He has the potential to be the greatest knick of all time if things go right. He has the perfect skill set for a modern big.

I think both of you have solid points, but the health factor still remains a concern. Of course the potential has me drooling, but his games played (2015)72 (2016)66 (2017)48, and 2018 (probably 40 games, and half of those will be on a minute restriction). Un fortunately, That should not be rewarded with a max contract

Any player can get injured though. The league has a short memory on Embiid missing 3 full seasons. Most are penciling them in as a top EC team like Embiid is a lock for 70+ games. You can't pay guys based on what-ifs. There are only a few Lebron-type iron man stars in the league. Everyone is a health risk to an extent and we have a league where the top 30-40 players are all making max money. Whether that's right or wrong, that's the market. Porzingis is one of the few players in the league who can legitimately impact the game at a high level on both ends of the floor. Only a few guys in the league have both MVP potential and DPOY potential, and he isn't even 23 years old yet.

Here's a fair question

At what point has KP shown he could carry a team other than the 2 to 3 wks in november last season.

failing to play in both GSW games last season for the purpose of rest, i mean even walt, wally and breen question that decision, Fatigue in december, elbow injury, shoulder injury, constantly getting toss to the ground to the point i thought he was flopping.

Is it a Batman or a Robin?

There's only a few players in league history who were capable of carrying a team by age 22. I don't think it's a fair question at this point. The way our team competed pre-injury vs. being one of the worst teams in the league post injury speaks for itself of the impact he had. We couldn't win or even compete in games after he went down.

When he got injured we were 2-8 in his last 10 games, some of them blow outs.

Are you paying for what his done, or what he can potentially do.

Phil paid Melo mostly because of what he had basically done in the past or earned, and also what he can potentially do in the future. They ripped phil apart. Similar situation with THJ, he showed some good flashes and was rewarded with a over-the-top contract.

To max a guy out after an acl injury is not a smart move, and shouldn't be hard to negotiate. i would give KP the same amount of money THJ got

Your using a 2-8 stretch as your basis?
was THjr out? He was the 2nd option.
Was he over used? Perhaps.
Was schedule harder in that stretch than before? No doubt.
Was he putting up all star numbers? Mostly.
The greek Freak is paid based on his potential, not winning.
Anthony Davis got what ever he wanted despite his fragile nature.
KP's trajectory is very very good.
Forget everything, you ever see a guy 7'3 do what he does sometimes? The instincts?, the passing?, the dexterity?, the handle? and the Motor?
I'd rather pay for potential then pay for passed performance given our current timeline.

Look the concerns i have are from 1000's of fans on real gm and youtube. I know you just didnt compare the greek freak who has miss a total of 15 games in 5 season, and Anthony davis who's better than KP right now and in his 4th yr, kp shot 39%, davis over 50, very bad comparison.

Bottom line is saying you are going to offer him Hardaway money is pointless because it's not realistic. Sure i wish we could get stars to come here for 18 mil a year, but it will never happen. No one will argue that Porzingis has franchise star potential. He is about to turn 23, so obviously you judge his value on his projection, not his accomplishments to this point. He's a guy you have to pay what the market dictates because you can't afford the alternative of losing him or being viewed as a poorly managed franchise who tries to pinch pennies. We are dealing with a player we want to be a big part of a future contender, and you don't insult him. Pay that guy and hope for the best.

If I'm KP, I'm not signing a 4 yr contract if the team isn't committed to winning. Right now they are committed to developing, that may take years because of the lack of star power around the young players.

Fortunate for him, the timing is perfect because the knicks will have cap next off season, and if they can't bring in a significant piece, then you have to be concern.

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Does KP deserve a Max contract

Positional value. Rarity of skill set.

Very few players either can or have the potential to ( talking about their floor, not their ceiling) to defend the rim AND space the floor at plus three point range as a subset of being able to create their own shot at will at an elite level.

The Big Three Heat had a suffocating defense. LBJ and Wade could both defend the rim. When Birdman showed up, both could roll in and out with Battier and Bosh. That Wade could once defend the rim is a bizarre anomaly. Bosh, LJB and Wade could create their own shot at will.

I'd say there are maybe 3-4 players in the entire league who fit in this category. Elite rim protector. Elite long range gunner. Can create their own shot at will.

The most valuable "to be" free agent is actually Draymond Green. He doesn't have plus range from three point land, but he can defend all five positions and defend the rim and switch on anyone. His fundamentals and timing are off the chart.

Zinger has not earned the max, but his skill set is so rare, any team in the league will give it to him anyway.

Of course he’s worth the max. He has the potential to be the greatest knick of all time if things go right. He has the perfect skill set for a modern big.

I think both of you have solid points, but the health factor still remains a concern. Of course the potential has me drooling, but his games played (2015)72 (2016)66 (2017)48, and 2018 (probably 40 games, and half of those will be on a minute restriction). Un fortunately, That should not be rewarded with a max contract

Any player can get injured though. The league has a short memory on Embiid missing 3 full seasons. Most are penciling them in as a top EC team like Embiid is a lock for 70+ games. You can't pay guys based on what-ifs. There are only a few Lebron-type iron man stars in the league. Everyone is a health risk to an extent and we have a league where the top 30-40 players are all making max money. Whether that's right or wrong, that's the market. Porzingis is one of the few players in the league who can legitimately impact the game at a high level on both ends of the floor. Only a few guys in the league have both MVP potential and DPOY potential, and he isn't even 23 years old yet.

Here's a fair question

At what point has KP shown he could carry a team other than the 2 to 3 wks in november last season.

failing to play in both GSW games last season for the purpose of rest, i mean even walt, wally and breen question that decision, Fatigue in december, elbow injury, shoulder injury, constantly getting toss to the ground to the point i thought he was flopping.

Is it a Batman or a Robin?

There's only a few players in league history who were capable of carrying a team by age 22. I don't think it's a fair question at this point. The way our team competed pre-injury vs. being one of the worst teams in the league post injury speaks for itself of the impact he had. We couldn't win or even compete in games after he went down.

When he got injured we were 2-8 in his last 10 games, some of them blow outs.

Are you paying for what his done, or what he can potentially do.

Phil paid Melo mostly because of what he had basically done in the past or earned, and also what he can potentially do in the future. They ripped phil apart. Similar situation with THJ, he showed some good flashes and was rewarded with a over-the-top contract.

To max a guy out after an acl injury is not a smart move, and shouldn't be hard to negotiate. i would give KP the same amount of money THJ got

Your using a 2-8 stretch as your basis?
was THjr out? He was the 2nd option.
Was he over used? Perhaps.
Was schedule harder in that stretch than before? No doubt.
Was he putting up all star numbers? Mostly.
The greek Freak is paid based on his potential, not winning.
Anthony Davis got what ever he wanted despite his fragile nature.
KP's trajectory is very very good.
Forget everything, you ever see a guy 7'3 do what he does sometimes? The instincts?, the passing?, the dexterity?, the handle? and the Motor?
I'd rather pay for potential then pay for passed performance given our current timeline.

Look the concerns i have are from 1000's of fans on real gm and youtube. I know you just didnt compare the greek freak who has miss a total of 15 games in 5 season, and Anthony davis who's better than KP right now and in his 4th yr, kp shot 39%, davis over 50, very bad comparison.

Im comparing talent and expectations. Milwaukee has not exactly lit the world on fire in conjunction with the hype bestowed upon the Freak. Giannis is a wonderful player and been healthy. No direct comparison.
Davis finally had a full great season.
KP has this kind of break out talent. That's where I went to.
RealGM and YOutubes is filled with "excitable" fans. It does not validate a thing. Trump fills arenas with morons.