blkexec wrote:

Uptown wrote:Great find as always, Crush!!! Whats interesting is we are getting we are getting high marks on this draft from all angles....Scouts, Journalists, Fans, Commentators and now an actual player who competed against our draft picks. It really feels like this Franchise is finally moving in the right direction.

I agree....but at the same time.....how many times have we said that?

I still have a front page clip of Larry Brown as the savior...See how that turned out.....and it's been going down hill since. I can't get too high too early anymore....I learned my lesson.

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Uptown wrote:Great find as always, Crush!!! Whats interesting is we are getting we are getting high marks on this draft from all angles....Scouts, Journalists, Fans, Commentators and now an actual player who competed against our draft picks. It really feels like this Franchise is finally moving in the right direction.

I agree....but at the same time.....how many times have we said that?

I still have a front page clip of Larry Brown as the savior...See how that turned out.....and it's been going down hill since. I can't get too high too early anymore....I learned my lesson.

the last time honestly? When we had a young team of Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Fields and Mosgov. We had a young squad with all our future assets and we blew it all on a player in a bad deal. I think (from what they have said) that we should be able to avoid this again

In retrospect though we didn't trade anything in the Melo deal. Gallo, Felton, Moz, and Chandler never improved after leaving and Gallo hit the major injury bug. Our 2014 pick would not have yielded a high level player based on those drafted in the range where that pick was. Same with 2016. I get that the flexibility was where the attraction was, but based on the lack of player development and Amare's sharp physical decline, we would have been stuck for a few years regardless. We had 3 years in the playoffs and 1 advancing to the 2nd round. How you view the Melo years is based on how much you value the playoff appearances and advancement vs. having "assets" at the time which you may or may not have been able to do something with. That deal even 7 years later is undecided and more of the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Uptown wrote:Great find as always, Crush!!! Whats interesting is we are getting we are getting high marks on this draft from all angles....Scouts, Journalists, Fans, Commentators and now an actual player who competed against our draft picks. It really feels like this Franchise is finally moving in the right direction.

I agree....but at the same time.....how many times have we said that?

I still have a front page clip of Larry Brown as the savior...See how that turned out.....and it's been going down hill since. I can't get too high too early anymore....I learned my lesson.

the last time honestly? When we had a young team of Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Fields and Mosgov. We had a young squad with all our future assets and we blew it all on a player in a bad deal. I think (from what they have said) that we should be able to avoid this again

In retrospect though we didn't trade anything in the Melo deal. Gallo, Felton, Moz, and Chandler never improved after leaving and Gallo hit the major injury bug. Our 2014 pick would not have yielded a high level player based on those drafted in the range where that pick was. Same with 2016. I get that the flexibility was where the attraction was, but based on the lack of player development and Amare's sharp physical decline, we would have been stuck for a few years regardless. We had 3 years in the playoffs and 1 advancing to the 2nd round. How you view the Melo years is based on how much you value the playoff appearances and advancement vs. having "assets" at the time which you may or may not have been able to do something with. That deal even 7 years later is undecided and more of the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

I am 100% sure simply staying the course, developing players and building what we had around MDA and the young players we had vs. flipping it for Melo and whoever he wanted to coach him would have been better. Much better. But whatever... the greatness of Melo and that debate will rage one. I certainly agree he's a HOF scorer. Having seen him for 7ish years pretty much everything they said about his was true. Gifted scorer who doesnt defend or pass and wants to do it his way. I am just glad we are done with that era

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Uptown wrote:Great find as always, Crush!!! Whats interesting is we are getting we are getting high marks on this draft from all angles....Scouts, Journalists, Fans, Commentators and now an actual player who competed against our draft picks. It really feels like this Franchise is finally moving in the right direction.

I agree....but at the same time.....how many times have we said that?

I still have a front page clip of Larry Brown as the savior...See how that turned out.....and it's been going down hill since. I can't get too high too early anymore....I learned my lesson.

the last time honestly? When we had a young team of Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Fields and Mosgov. We had a young squad with all our future assets and we blew it all on a player in a bad deal. I think (from what they have said) that we should be able to avoid this again

In retrospect though we didn't trade anything in the Melo deal. Gallo, Felton, Moz, and Chandler never improved after leaving and Gallo hit the major injury bug. Our 2014 pick would not have yielded a high level player based on those drafted in the range where that pick was. Same with 2016. I get that the flexibility was where the attraction was, but based on the lack of player development and Amare's sharp physical decline, we would have been stuck for a few years regardless. We had 3 years in the playoffs and 1 advancing to the 2nd round. How you view the Melo years is based on how much you value the playoff appearances and advancement vs. having "assets" at the time which you may or may not have been able to do something with. That deal even 7 years later is undecided and more of the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

couldnt disagree more. Starting with the style of play and the pieces we had. IF we have seen anything its that talent, style of play and winning brings in more talent. We had MDA, were winning games with a young team, Felton was hitting his stride at 26 and we traded it all for ISO Melo.

I am 100% sure simply staying the course, developing players and building what we had around MDA and the young players we had vs. flipping it for Melo and whoever he wanted to coach him would have been better. Much better. But whatever... the greatness of Melo and that debate will rage one. I certainly agree he's a HOF scorer. Having seen him for 7ish years pretty much everything they said about his was true. Gifted scorer who doesnt defend or pass and wants to do it his way. I am just glad we are done with that era

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Uptown wrote:Great find as always, Crush!!! Whats interesting is we are getting we are getting high marks on this draft from all angles....Scouts, Journalists, Fans, Commentators and now an actual player who competed against our draft picks. It really feels like this Franchise is finally moving in the right direction.

I agree....but at the same time.....how many times have we said that?

I still have a front page clip of Larry Brown as the savior...See how that turned out.....and it's been going down hill since. I can't get too high too early anymore....I learned my lesson.

the last time honestly? When we had a young team of Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Fields and Mosgov. We had a young squad with all our future assets and we blew it all on a player in a bad deal. I think (from what they have said) that we should be able to avoid this again

In retrospect though we didn't trade anything in the Melo deal. Gallo, Felton, Moz, and Chandler never improved after leaving and Gallo hit the major injury bug. Our 2014 pick would not have yielded a high level player based on those drafted in the range where that pick was. Same with 2016. I get that the flexibility was where the attraction was, but based on the lack of player development and Amare's sharp physical decline, we would have been stuck for a few years regardless. We had 3 years in the playoffs and 1 advancing to the 2nd round. How you view the Melo years is based on how much you value the playoff appearances and advancement vs. having "assets" at the time which you may or may not have been able to do something with. That deal even 7 years later is undecided and more of the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

couldnt disagree more. Starting with the style of play and the pieces we had. IF we have seen anything its that talent, style of play and winning brings in more talent. We had MDA, were winning games with a young team, Felton was hitting his stride at 26 and we traded it all for ISO Melo.

I am 100% sure simply staying the course, developing players and building what we had around MDA and the young players we had vs. flipping it for Melo and whoever he wanted to coach him would have been better. Much better. But whatever... the greatness of Melo and that debate will rage one. I certainly agree he's a HOF scorer. Having seen him for 7ish years pretty much everything they said about his was true. Gifted scorer who doesnt defend or pass and wants to do it his way. I am just glad we are done with that era

That was all on management. Morey has been the perfect gm for D'Antoni. He built a team emphasizing his coach's strengths that had the talent to make up for his coach's deficits. The front office needs to be all in with the coach and his style of play for a team to be successful. The Knicks had D'Antoni but didn't give him a roster to run his system. Same thing with the Lakers. Woodson and Grunwald were on the same page and it worked. Fisher tried to do his own thing with practice and coaching but the pres. had other ideas with roster construction, practice and style of play. Hornacek's first year was a mess and he probably should not have been brought back. Not sure what to think of last year. He played Frank a lot but he wasn't Perry's guy.

"he wasn't Perry's guy".....what does that mean?
As long as he is a "Fiz Kid" is all that matters going forward. I don't care if he was branded exclusively as just a Triangle guy. That's a fan only narrative.
As for Jeff, he played Frank a lot and I can't see that as a bad thing. Did he demand too much from him? Too little? Was he too easy on him? too tough?
I don't know.
In the course of a year we removed Phil, installed the Craig Robinson secret sauce player developemt/re-education system to both enhance high ceiling blue chip teens and former lottery players whom have not lived up to their draft status.
If they are knicks, they are "perry's guys". If not, they are gone.
Long time until we have to pair down the roster from 20 to 15.

I was referring to Jeff.

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Uptown wrote:Great find as always, Crush!!! Whats interesting is we are getting we are getting high marks on this draft from all angles....Scouts, Journalists, Fans, Commentators and now an actual player who competed against our draft picks. It really feels like this Franchise is finally moving in the right direction.

I agree....but at the same time.....how many times have we said that?

I still have a front page clip of Larry Brown as the savior...See how that turned out.....and it's been going down hill since. I can't get too high too early anymore....I learned my lesson.

the last time honestly? When we had a young team of Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Fields and Mosgov. We had a young squad with all our future assets and we blew it all on a player in a bad deal. I think (from what they have said) that we should be able to avoid this again

In retrospect though we didn't trade anything in the Melo deal. Gallo, Felton, Moz, and Chandler never improved after leaving and Gallo hit the major injury bug. Our 2014 pick would not have yielded a high level player based on those drafted in the range where that pick was. Same with 2016. I get that the flexibility was where the attraction was, but based on the lack of player development and Amare's sharp physical decline, we would have been stuck for a few years regardless. We had 3 years in the playoffs and 1 advancing to the 2nd round. How you view the Melo years is based on how much you value the playoff appearances and advancement vs. having "assets" at the time which you may or may not have been able to do something with. That deal even 7 years later is undecided and more of the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

couldnt disagree more. Starting with the style of play and the pieces we had. IF we have seen anything its that talent, style of play and winning brings in more talent. We had MDA, were winning games with a young team, Felton was hitting his stride at 26 and we traded it all for ISO Melo.

I am 100% sure simply staying the course, developing players and building what we had around MDA and the young players we had vs. flipping it for Melo and whoever he wanted to coach him would have been better. Much better. But whatever... the greatness of Melo and that debate will rage one. I certainly agree he's a HOF scorer. Having seen him for 7ish years pretty much everything they said about his was true. Gifted scorer who doesnt defend or pass and wants to do it his way. I am just glad we are done with that era

Just saw this delusional revisionist history where the 2010 Knicks were all about our tremendous young nucleus that we traded away for ME-lo and wasn't about someone named Stat playing out of his mind before his uninsurable knees blew out. The great Ray Felton, who we got back for nothing. Gallo and Moz, who turned into wow, an injury story and a traveling project.
Yes, that's the way to build a team, around a coach who's major contribution before the trade/rape was running Stat into the ground.

But agreed, whatever, the Melo balloon has been released. We are now in the KP era with all these kids and intact draft picks. Hopefully Frankie becomes this gen's Clyde and defense catches on with the rest of the squad as well.

Melo was just another random star to get tourists and celebs to the garden to watch him getting buckets.
MSG knew what they are getting and Melo was well aware what he getting into.
It was not about bbal. Just business.
This business model is not available any more after so many years of sucking.
So time for conventional team building is there for Knicks.
This is slow and boring affair for most of the fans...
And this good - we will get many trash fans out of the house.

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Uptown wrote:Great find as always, Crush!!! Whats interesting is we are getting we are getting high marks on this draft from all angles....Scouts, Journalists, Fans, Commentators and now an actual player who competed against our draft picks. It really feels like this Franchise is finally moving in the right direction.

I agree....but at the same time.....how many times have we said that?

I still have a front page clip of Larry Brown as the savior...See how that turned out.....and it's been going down hill since. I can't get too high too early anymore....I learned my lesson.

the last time honestly? When we had a young team of Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Fields and Mosgov. We had a young squad with all our future assets and we blew it all on a player in a bad deal. I think (from what they have said) that we should be able to avoid this again

In retrospect though we didn't trade anything in the Melo deal. Gallo, Felton, Moz, and Chandler never improved after leaving and Gallo hit the major injury bug. Our 2014 pick would not have yielded a high level player based on those drafted in the range where that pick was. Same with 2016. I get that the flexibility was where the attraction was, but based on the lack of player development and Amare's sharp physical decline, we would have been stuck for a few years regardless. We had 3 years in the playoffs and 1 advancing to the 2nd round. How you view the Melo years is based on how much you value the playoff appearances and advancement vs. having "assets" at the time which you may or may not have been able to do something with. That deal even 7 years later is undecided and more of the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

couldnt disagree more. Starting with the style of play and the pieces we had. IF we have seen anything its that talent, style of play and winning brings in more talent. We had MDA, were winning games with a young team, Felton was hitting his stride at 26 and we traded it all for ISO Melo.

I am 100% sure simply staying the course, developing players and building what we had around MDA and the young players we had vs. flipping it for Melo and whoever he wanted to coach him would have been better. Much better. But whatever... the greatness of Melo and that debate will rage one. I certainly agree he's a HOF scorer. Having seen him for 7ish years pretty much everything they said about his was true. Gifted scorer who doesnt defend or pass and wants to do it his way. I am just glad we are done with that era

Just saw this delusional revisionist history where the 2010 Knicks were all about our tremendous young nucleus that we traded away for ME-lo and wasn't about someone named Stat playing out of his mind before his uninsurable knees blew out. The great Ray Felton, who we got back for nothing. Gallo and Moz, who turned into wow, an injury story and a traveling project.
Yes, that's the way to build a team, around a coach who's major contribution before the trade/rape was running Stat into the ground.

But agreed, whatever, the Melo balloon has been released. We are now in the KP era with all these kids and intact draft picks. Hopefully Frankie becomes this gen's Clyde and defense catches on with the rest of the squad as well.

Funny... Now MDA is once again regarded as a top flight coach and Melo is veteran minimum fodder. Like the rising and setting of the sun, some things are predictable.

Btw.. it wasnt really a Melo baloon. More like a fart. It might have been heard, it might have been fun for awhile, it might have stunk shortly after being fun, but in the end nobody really remembers or cares because it was just another fart. Maybe a fart-baloon. I will will meet you in the middle. Im charitable today.

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Uptown wrote:Great find as always, Crush!!! Whats interesting is we are getting we are getting high marks on this draft from all angles....Scouts, Journalists, Fans, Commentators and now an actual player who competed against our draft picks. It really feels like this Franchise is finally moving in the right direction.

I agree....but at the same time.....how many times have we said that?

I still have a front page clip of Larry Brown as the savior...See how that turned out.....and it's been going down hill since. I can't get too high too early anymore....I learned my lesson.

the last time honestly? When we had a young team of Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Fields and Mosgov. We had a young squad with all our future assets and we blew it all on a player in a bad deal. I think (from what they have said) that we should be able to avoid this again

In retrospect though we didn't trade anything in the Melo deal. Gallo, Felton, Moz, and Chandler never improved after leaving and Gallo hit the major injury bug. Our 2014 pick would not have yielded a high level player based on those drafted in the range where that pick was. Same with 2016. I get that the flexibility was where the attraction was, but based on the lack of player development and Amare's sharp physical decline, we would have been stuck for a few years regardless. We had 3 years in the playoffs and 1 advancing to the 2nd round. How you view the Melo years is based on how much you value the playoff appearances and advancement vs. having "assets" at the time which you may or may not have been able to do something with. That deal even 7 years later is undecided and more of the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

couldnt disagree more. Starting with the style of play and the pieces we had. IF we have seen anything its that talent, style of play and winning brings in more talent. We had MDA, were winning games with a young team, Felton was hitting his stride at 26 and we traded it all for ISO Melo.

I am 100% sure simply staying the course, developing players and building what we had around MDA and the young players we had vs. flipping it for Melo and whoever he wanted to coach him would have been better. Much better. But whatever... the greatness of Melo and that debate will rage one. I certainly agree he's a HOF scorer. Having seen him for 7ish years pretty much everything they said about his was true. Gifted scorer who doesnt defend or pass and wants to do it his way. I am just glad we are done with that era

Just saw this delusional revisionist history where the 2010 Knicks were all about our tremendous young nucleus that we traded away for ME-lo and wasn't about someone named Stat playing out of his mind before his uninsurable knees blew out. The great Ray Felton, who we got back for nothing. Gallo and Moz, who turned into wow, an injury story and a traveling project.
Yes, that's the way to build a team, around a coach who's major contribution before the trade/rape was running Stat into the ground.

But agreed, whatever, the Melo balloon has been released. We are now in the KP era with all these kids and intact draft picks. Hopefully Frankie becomes this gen's Clyde and defense catches on with the rest of the squad as well.

Funny... Now MDA is once again regarded as a top flight coach and Melo is veteran minimum fodder. Like the rising and setting of the sun, some things are predictable.

Btw.. it wasnt really a Melo baloon. More like a fart. It might have been heard, it might have been fun for awhile, it might have stunk shortly after being fun, but in the end nobody really remembers or cares because it was just another fart. Maybe a fart-baloon. I will will meet you in the middle. Im charitable today.

D'Antoni has a top flight gm that built his roster to minimize his deficits while emphasizing his strengths. That type of relationship and shared vision between coach and gm is essential if a team is going to win. Some coaches, i.e. Pat Riley, can adjust and change their style to fit the players they have and still win. D'Antoni is not a coach that can do that. That is why he wasn't successful in New York and LA. Melo has simply gotten old and is no longer a top player in the league. What will be interesting to see is if he can adapt and change to be successful in the later stages of his career.