this video surely gives us hope, a couple of these players will surprise you a bit at how poor they started. i forgot the the suns had KJ, KIDD, and Nash at the same time

It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".

Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!

It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".

lots of double standards out there.

Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!

It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".

Thank you for pointing out that Nash was making the all star team before Phoenix. Didnt agree with their decision to go in another direction, at the time.

As for Frank, believe that his playing PG has been treated at times like it was Phil's dying wish. He wasnt a PG in France.

Posters talked about him standing up to LeBron. Standing up to LeBron would have been dunking on him. Needs a major dose of attitude.

Frank has the tools he needs to be a dangerous two-way player. Needs to develop the confidence, and the attitude to use those tools to beat the crap out of the other team.

Nash wasnt this timid, if my memory serves me. Not as much as it used to, lol.

Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.

Dallas let him walk because they did two specific things.

A) Sign Michael Finley to a massive extension. Which in hindsight, was a mistake but an understandable one. He was a very successful wing for a good while.

B) Sign Erick Dampier to a large free agent contract ( He had one good year with the GSW, in a contract year, got paid, dogged it. In his next contract year, had one more good year, then dogged it in Dallas. Truly one of the biggest reasons the NBAPA lost the post The Decision labor war. As the story goes, the owners could not stop bringing up Dampier and his contract situations to the NBAPA )

Mark Cuban came out later and said he was wrong and these were bad long term decisions but explained why he did it. The cost of rim protection was different back then. From a standpoint of trying to win a ring, it was very understandable ( taking the wing and pivot over the point guard)

Post that situation, Cuban just kept going into that tax zone and did so until the expanded repeater tax was created.

Mark Cuban is a point blank *******. I've met him a couple of times and it's no doubt, he's a gigantic *******. However he loves his team and he loves the game, that is certain and he wants to win and he will spend to win. He is one of the best owners in sports. But the same elements that make him great at being an owner also makes him horrible with dealing with his fellow owners.

He was never dishonest about the issue that letting Nash leave was a franchise changing mistake.

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!

It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".

Thank you for pointing out that Nash was making the all star team before Phoenix. Didnt agree with their decision to go in another direction, at the time.

As for Frank, believe that his playing PG has been treated at times like it was Phil's dying wish. He wasnt a PG in France.

Posters talked about him standing up to LeBron. Standing up to LeBron would have been dunking on him. Needs a major dose of attitude.

Frank has the tools he needs to be a dangerous two-way player. Needs to develop the confidence, and the attitude to use those tools to beat the crap out of the other team.

Nash wasnt this timid, if my memory serves me. Not as much as it used to, lol.

I don't expect frank to turn into Kawhi, he will be a decent player, but he hasn't shown anything that suggest he will be demanding the ball and looking to score on 4 or 5 straight possessions.

Mudiay and Mario, have shown their ability to take their game to the next level, and i think FIZ system is Ideal to get them there consistently.

Usually when a lottery pick starts off with 2 sub par seasons, he's probably going to get traded before the 3rd

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!

It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".

Thank you for pointing out that Nash was making the all star team before Phoenix. Didnt agree with their decision to go in another direction, at the time.

As for Frank, believe that his playing PG has been treated at times like it was Phil's dying wish. He wasnt a PG in France.

Posters talked about him standing up to LeBron. Standing up to LeBron would have been dunking on him. Needs a major dose of attitude.

Frank has the tools he needs to be a dangerous two-way player. Needs to develop the confidence, and the attitude to use those tools to beat the crap out of the other team.

Nash wasnt this timid, if my memory serves me. Not as much as it used to, lol.

I don't expect frank muddiay to turn into Kawhi, he will be a decent player, but he hasn't shown anything that suggest he will be demanding the ball and looking to score on 4 or 5 straight possessions.

Mudiay frank and Mario, have shown their ability to take their game to the next level, and i think FIZ system is Ideal to get them there consistently.

Usually when a lottery pick starts off with 2 sub par seasons, he's probably going to get traded before the 3rd

Your relentless!!!

that's better for you, god forbid anyone who doesn't have glowing remarks about frank their considered the worse...

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!

It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".

Thank you for pointing out that Nash was making the all star team before Phoenix. Didnt agree with their decision to go in another direction, at the time.

As for Frank, believe that his playing PG has been treated at times like it was Phil's dying wish. He wasnt a PG in France.

Posters talked about him standing up to LeBron. Standing up to LeBron would have been dunking on him. Needs a major dose of attitude.

Frank has the tools he needs to be a dangerous two-way player. Needs to develop the confidence, and the attitude to use those tools to beat the crap out of the other team.

Nash wasnt this timid, if my memory serves me. Not as much as it used to, lol.

Right you recall. Steve Nash rookie season with PHX?
Oh wait, you want to equate Nash to Frank? How about this.....8 pts a game and 2.2 assists!!!!!
Thats his line as a freshman at SANTA CLARA FUCKING STATE UNIVERSITY!!!!
Please, nobody said frank was Nash. The point is there are players that need time!

Was Nash averaging over 20 minutes a game as a rookie? Was he the 8th pick, with some pro experience?. More was expected.

The only comparison to Nash I was making was their playing style. Nothing else. Just agreeing with you that Nash could ball before he got to Phoenix, which gets lost in the conversation sometimes.

Expectations are what you put on a player.

Drafting a player at a certain position, especially that high, are usually based off of potential. Potential today, tomorrow, next year or a couple years down the road.

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!

It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".

Thank you for pointing out that Nash was making the all star team before Phoenix. Didnt agree with their decision to go in another direction, at the time.

As for Frank, believe that his playing PG has been treated at times like it was Phil's dying wish. He wasnt a PG in France.

Posters talked about him standing up to LeBron. Standing up to LeBron would have been dunking on him. Needs a major dose of attitude.

Frank has the tools he needs to be a dangerous two-way player. Needs to develop the confidence, and the attitude to use those tools to beat the crap out of the other team.

Nash wasnt this timid, if my memory serves me. Not as much as it used to, lol.

I don't expect frank muddiay to turn into Kawhi, he will be a decent player, but he hasn't shown anything that suggest he will be demanding the ball and looking to score on 4 or 5 straight possessions.

Mudiay frank and Mario, have shown their ability to take their game to the next level, and i think FIZ system is Ideal to get them there consistently.

Usually when a lottery pick starts off with 2 sub par seasons, he's probably going to get traded before the 3rd

Your relentless!!!

that's better for you, god forbid anyone who doesn't have glowing remarks about frank their considered the worse...

Your entitle to your redundancy as I am mine. I don't consider you the worst. Just narrow.

Nalod wrote:Nash was 22 as a rookie in PHX for two years and was traded to Dallas.
Expectation is what you want to make from it. A 18 year old drafted not named Lebron did not disappoint some.
Media wanted you to hate, you hate. You want to expect more, thats your choice.
Kobe did not break out until 21 years old.

Knew from 30 seconds of watching Kobe in high school that he would be a star, and the Hornets were crazy.

Its not about Frank's skills, his smarts, its about his willingness to take the fight to the other team.

Kobe bricked or airballed how many 3 pointers his first playoff series? Frank would have been much more risk averse.

As for the bold....shmaltz!

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:Nash is an interesting study. He made the first of his 8 all star appearances with Dallas, 2 in fact.
After two years of lackluster play in PHO he was traded to Dallas and it was not unil he was 26 and his minutes when from about 25 to 35 that his numbers got real good.
He never averaged more than 18.8 pts per game. he lead the league in assists and had gaudy shooting %'s. Two time MVP.
Dallas let him walk as they were concerned about his back.
Funny, you don't mention Frank. Nash had tough rookie campaign and certainly did not play as well on Defense. Nash as 22 his rookie year. Frank will play three seasons THEN be the same age.
No, im not saying Frank will be Nash. But Nash was not nash his rookie year, or the year after, or the year after, or the year after.
But you paint Frank what he is his rookie year to the future. Since your posting this article its a license to call you out on it.
The point your making is that some players need more time. That is true. I hope Mudiay and Mario can develop. I have said this before that you create luck by creating opportunities!!!
The assumption was that Nash came from nowhere to PHX is not true. An allstar by age 27 he was flourishing in Don Nelson's system. MDA and PHX had a hell of a team and it the system propelled him to double MVP status and sure fist ballot HOF!

It should be interesting to see the "FIZ Effect" for Timmy, Frank, Mudiay, Mario, Burke, KP, etc with our new coaching staff.
Good points Knicks1248, there are some players that ascended and we can only hope knicks are recipients of some good "opportunities".

I actually gave him credit for not naming Frank, makes me believe that he believes he wouldn't fit the category of getting good out of nowhere.

Frank at 18 yrs old was the best PNR defending PG in the NBA and was apart of 86% of the Knicks net positive lineups. Probably even more if I go past the 32 lineup count but the mins allocated would devalue it.

Lets see if he can build on these positives he had his rookie yr and get his impact to grow even more.

All those players in that video had a few games in their rookie campaign that showed their ability to really be good, just like Knox has.

It's ridiculous to keep pointing out franks PnR defense when as a team we defended horrible.

Frank Pnr defense is good because of his length and height, it allows him to block the path to the basket, or switch on defense.

Quite Frankly, a player is as good as the system you put him in. If frank was in this yrs draft do you think for one minute that we would take him before young or sexton (if all 3 were available).

We drafted knox because of fiz, his system and how he wants to play, the same reason phil drafted frank.

Now you want frank to reinvent his game to fit fiz system..good luck with that, that rarely every works, and jeremy lin is a prime example. In MDA system he's an all star, everybody else system he's avg or below.