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Adam Silver encourages Warriors to ‘increase their dominance’
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GustavBahler
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7/13/2018  1:14 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/adam-silver-encourages-warriors-increase-023021547.html

“We want teams to compete like crazy,” Silver said. “I think the Warriors—within the framework of this deal—should be doing everything they can to increase their dominance. That’s what you want to see in a league. You want teams to compete in every way they can within the rules.

“I don’t necessarily think it’s per se bad that the Warriors are so dominant. As I’ve said before, we’re not trying to create some sort of forced parity. What we really focus on is parity of opportunity.”

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Chandler
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7/13/2018  1:43 PM
I thought David Stern was the worst possible commissioner. I was wrong

it's joke to talk about competitiveness as he does and then have horrible officiating with no accountability (not that all officials or calls are horrible, but when they are they do little about it). Now with sports betting Yikes

Also when all the superstars get superstar calls: He's right that they don't "force parity" Just the opposite is true; they force a superstar system with lack of fairness. It is getting closer and closer to WWE

And then you have the issue that teams like the Heat and other no income tax states have a huge advantage

Guy is a clown and a goofy looking one and that

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Andrew
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7/13/2018  2:17 PM
Chandler wrote:I thought David Stern was the worst possible commissioner. I was wrong

it's joke to talk about competitiveness as he does and then have horrible officiating with no accountability (not that all officials or calls are horrible, but when they are they do little about it). Now with sports betting Yikes

Also when all the superstars get superstar calls: He's right that they don't "force parity" Just the opposite is true; they force a superstar system with lack of fairness. It is getting closer and closer to WWE

And then you have the issue that teams like the Heat and other no income tax states have a huge advantage

Guy is a clown and a goofy looking one and that

How does Adam Silver force a superstar system?

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SupremeCommander
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7/13/2018  2:27 PM
Andrew wrote:
Chandler wrote:I thought David Stern was the worst possible commissioner. I was wrong

it's joke to talk about competitiveness as he does and then have horrible officiating with no accountability (not that all officials or calls are horrible, but when they are they do little about it). Now with sports betting Yikes

Also when all the superstars get superstar calls: He's right that they don't "force parity" Just the opposite is true; they force a superstar system with lack of fairness. It is getting closer and closer to WWE

And then you have the issue that teams like the Heat and other no income tax states have a huge advantage

Guy is a clown and a goofy looking one and that

How does Adam Silver force a superstar system?

I don't know but I agree with his overall point

Sambakick wrote: Gives a whole new meaning to "Jazz Hands"
Nalod
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7/13/2018  2:45 PM
First off this is on Boogie to do this deal, not some dark room conspiracy.
The guy is a first class ******* that had limited opportunities given his injury. With more money and a better market next seasaon the guy can perhaps repair both his image and his leg. Max money is more then just on court performance, your the face of the franchise and part of the community.
The notion that stern or silver promote this is comical. Should they discourage this? No.
Was it a conspiracy by stern to not let Paul join the Lakers? He blocked it because NOLA was being run by the league and the GM made the deal without consent of the league.
Competition is not just on the court, its between teams and roster construction.
Andrew
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7/13/2018  2:54 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
Andrew wrote:
Chandler wrote:I thought David Stern was the worst possible commissioner. I was wrong

it's joke to talk about competitiveness as he does and then have horrible officiating with no accountability (not that all officials or calls are horrible, but when they are they do little about it). Now with sports betting Yikes

Also when all the superstars get superstar calls: He's right that they don't "force parity" Just the opposite is true; they force a superstar system with lack of fairness. It is getting closer and closer to WWE

And then you have the issue that teams like the Heat and other no income tax states have a huge advantage

Guy is a clown and a goofy looking one and that

How does Adam Silver force a superstar system?

I don't know but I agree with his overall point

What was his point?

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Knixkik
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7/13/2018  3:07 PM
Silver is the best commish in sports, as was Stern. The popularity and growth of the league, with minimum drama, speaks for itself.
Chandler
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7/13/2018  5:41 PM
Andrew wrote:
Chandler wrote:I thought David Stern was the worst possible commissioner. I was wrong

it's joke to talk about competitiveness as he does and then have horrible officiating with no accountability (not that all officials or calls are horrible, but when they are they do little about it). Now with sports betting Yikes

Also when all the superstars get superstar calls: He's right that they don't "force parity" Just the opposite is true; they force a superstar system with lack of fairness. It is getting closer and closer to WWE

And then you have the issue that teams like the Heat and other no income tax states have a huge advantage

Guy is a clown and a goofy looking one and that

How does Adam Silver force a superstar system?

NBA superstars get superstar calls from biased, league-blessed reffing to make them even bigger superstars.

Lebron barrels down the lane and draws foul; same move by others is Offensive foul.
Lebron draws chages; same move by others is blocking
Substitute KD, Harden and the other superstars

These guys don't need the help

How many games do we have to see with a huge FT disparity that doesn't translate to what we see on the court in terms of each team being aggressive or whatever.
When is the last time a ref was called out (a little honesty from the league on this would be good). NFL says when officials blew it even if it cost the game.

L2M reports are a joke and miss the point. They only matter if it's tight in the last 2 minutes. And then if the ref blows a key call, the L2M goes out of it's way to say they missed the call the other way too -- even when any idiot could see the plays were apples and oranges, and one missed call was a completely inexcusable and the other iffy

And Silver doesn't even admit to these issues. These will only get worse now with gambling

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Chandler
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7/13/2018  6:00 PM
Knixkik wrote:Silver is the best commish in sports, as was Stern. The popularity and growth of the league, with minimum drama, speaks for itself.

You'll have a tough time convincing me of that. Admittedly a little dated but even a little searching will show NBA is behind NFL, MLB, college football and potentially NASCAR.

Sorry about the link below but just google
e.g.: https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=zcDe1u05&id=6913DAF561D3142DDF50F1E2BD9A6079F88A23A5&thid=OIP.zcDe1u05tVf0iT2j__qFhwHaFj&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fstatic3.businessinsider.com%2fimage%2f54e7a286eab8ea8a32d8ea8b-800-600%2f01-743.png&exph=600&expw=800&q=nba+vs+nfl+popularity&simid=608052128958254590&selectedIndex=5&ajaxhist=0

We are obviously fanatics and love the game (myself included), but it's a hard draw for new fans. Hey be a fan, next NBA championship will be between GS and Cleveland again. Watch Lebron hog the ball and hopefully pull of a miracle. This year we already know it will be whoever wins the West and that will be Houston or GS or a miracle by Lakers.

On top of that, we're headed for another labor issue. Hey billionaire owners at odds with players making 40 mill/year -- that's exciting. let's raise ticket prices

CBA has huge flaws in it. Middle tier players are being phased out so that teams can chase max or near-max guys who then get their money, play worse and you're stuck with them sinking your teams already minimal odds wsince you don't have Lebron, KD, Step, Harden (see Noah, Melo, Bazemore, Parsons, on and on). In the NFL those guys get released and the team can truly rebuild. NBA they get put in a rubber room like bad teachers and still collect their multi-millions

the only thing Stern and Silver have to their credit is: internationalizing the market; increasing prices; and decreasing real competition and any sense that a team can turn things around to contender status

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Chandler
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7/13/2018  6:07 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Chandler wrote:I thought David Stern was the worst possible commissioner. I was wrong

it's joke to talk about competitiveness as he does and then have horrible officiating with no accountability (not that all officials or calls are horrible, but when they are they do little about it). Now with sports betting Yikes

Also when all the superstars get superstar calls: He's right that they don't "force parity" Just the opposite is true; they force a superstar system with lack of fairness. It is getting closer and closer to WWE

And then you have the issue that teams like the Heat and other no income tax states have a huge advantage

Guy is a clown and a goofy looking one and that


One of my college coaches would use a phrase I didn't understand until I retired.

"Good For The Sport/Bad For The Game"

David Stern and Adam Silver, their actual jobs are/were to make the owners happy and to keep the NBA's revenue growing and expand it's worldwide appeal. Full stop. End of story. In terms of MARKETING the sport, they have done an excellent job. No one could ask for more, esp with what Stern had to start with, which was not much.

Franchises selling for record prices is good for the sport. Constant media buzz from the soap opera storylines is good for the sport. Players being divas and the league and shoe companies forcing a "narrative" that is the most marketable to push to keep the networks happy ( the ones who pay billions to broadcast the games) is good for the sport.

But a lot of it is bad for the game itself.

The entire Kawhi Leonard saga is an example of how many of the things done to better market the NBA ( i.e. good for the sport) is just plain bad for the game itself.

Top heavy teams destroy everyone in the playoffs. That means fewer playoff games. Which means less revenue. The networks are furious ( they pay a lot to broadcast games, fewer games doesn't help them) People in those host cities lose out on revenue, they are pissed. People who sell merch/concessions, rely on those games to provide jobs and income, they are pissed.

What Silver is really saying is, I love that the Warriors got dragged to 7 games in the WCF, which helps the narrative angle and increases the number of playoff games from the previous year, as long as ratings are up, as long as revenue grows, as long as the networks, shoe companies and owners are fat and happy, I don't give a ****.

Be dominant, just don't cost the league money. Warriors soft pedaled it a lot last season. They could have pushed it way way harder and made the league struggle with it's "narrative" (i.e. that other teams had a real chance, no one had a chance against the Warriors) but they didn't. Quiet rumor is Joe Lacob is getting massive offers to sell the Warriors privately and the NBA would love that. They would move for a record price, which would up the valuation of all NBA franchises.

Nothing Adam Silver says in public means anything. I hear guys all the time on this board, say "Well such and such said this and that in this interview, so must be the absolute only way its gonna happen" Which all means truly jack ****. This isn't like building a space shuttle, where you blueprint out it from the ground up. Real sports franchises take it a day at a time and do the best they can right now and have to adjust all the time to things that change. Morey had no clue Chris Paul would be available in a trade, but he was prepared when he was available. There was no five year plan to get Chris Paul.

Adam Silver is an EXCELLENT Commissioner FOR THE SPORT

Adam Silver is likely a mediocre Commissioner FOR THE GAME ITSELF

When Adam Silver talks in the press, it ultimately means jack ****. As long as the networks, shoe brands and owners are fat and happy, he simply doesn't give a **** and why should he?

I agree with this

I don't have a problem with him saying he wants competition and not forced parity. It's just hypocritical for him to even open his mouth on the topic when there are so many things promote lack of parity

simplest case is any number of NBA teams making a reach on a player because THEY ARE TRYING TO WIN. They make a mistake and then you're force to pay the guy and on top of that it will count against your cap even if the guy is a bum, drunk, or cripple. It's insulting. I would prefer they get released and they get zero from that team. Failin that at least allow a release and give the team the freedom to try again with some other player.

Other than a public school teacher (99.99% of which are good; can't say same for players) there is no other job where if you dog it, you get paid 100% and there's nothing the boss can do about it.

Vin Baker was a drunk and got paid. Parsons can't play and Grizz can't do a thing about it other than to try and offload bum contract at the cost of a high lottery (how does that help them); Knicks have Noah

C'mon guys. System is rigged.

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Chandler
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7/16/2018  12:54 PM
Triple.

Why can't we have a rule, where a team can release a player but still honor payment. By release they free cap space, he remains under contract to the team (though he can't play)

thus for example with Noah team could spend the 17 million on a player who can actually contribute on the floor. If another teams wants him, they could pay the Knicks a negotiated amount to fully relase from his contract

Issue is a crappy team sometimes had to reach on a FA to try and improve, but if they're wrong they're doubly punished. Not only do they end up with a crappy player, but they hurt their ability to try and improve on that situation

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arkrud
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7/16/2018  4:08 PM
Chandler wrote:Triple.

Why can't we have a rule, where a team can release a player but still honor payment. By release they free cap space, he remains under contract to the team (though he can't play)

thus for example with Noah team could spend the 17 million on a player who can actually contribute on the floor. If another teams wants him, they could pay the Knicks a negotiated amount to fully relase from his contract

Issue is a crappy team sometimes had to reach on a FA to try and improve, but if they're wrong they're doubly punished. Not only do they end up with a crappy player, but they hurt their ability to try and improve on that situation

Hard cap for supper-reach...
Dolan will spend then 500 mils not 250 per year and will try every possible sturpunch available until he will get some results.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
newyorknewyork
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7/16/2018  5:23 PM
Chandler wrote:Triple.

Why can't we have a rule, where a team can release a player but still honor payment. By release they free cap space, he remains under contract to the team (though he can't play)

thus for example with Noah team could spend the 17 million on a player who can actually contribute on the floor. If another teams wants him, they could pay the Knicks a negotiated amount to fully relase from his contract

Issue is a crappy team sometimes had to reach on a FA to try and improve, but if they're wrong they're doubly punished. Not only do they end up with a crappy player, but they hurt their ability to try and improve on that situation

They should allow teams with cap space to eat the future salary of a player against the current season cap. They can put in provisions to ensure that's teams use it on players/contracts that are holding teams back. Maybe have to submit it to league for review and have the league accept or deny. Or have it set up that if a player has missed so and so many games. And or has played certain amount of mins per game over the last 2 season etc.

Players will get their money and move on from a bad situation. Teams wont get stuck with cap eating contracts that aren't producing. But again the team would have to have the cap to cover the amount they are eating.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
jrodmc
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7/16/2018  6:05 PM
GustavBahler wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/sports/adam-silver-encourages-warriors-increase-023021547.html

“We want teams to compete like crazy,” Silver said. “I think the Warriors—within the framework of this deal—should be doing everything they can to increase their dominance. That’s what you want to see in a league. You want teams to compete in every way they can within the rules.

“I don’t necessarily think it’s per se bad that the Warriors are so dominant. As I’ve said before, we’re not trying to create some sort of forced parity. What we really focus on is parity of opportunity.”

Parity of opportunity? To do what? Encourage superfriend teams? And have the rest of the league tanking for ping pong balls and a wet dream?

You really want parity of opportunity?
1) Make it insanely difficult for the Lebrons' and KD's to just trot on off to wherever they want. Give both the players and the owners monetary reasons to ensure the top 10% of the league stays where they are drafted. Is that good for the league or the game? Not sure. But it's got to be better than this horse****. Player wants to chase a ring bad enough? See if he'll actually sacrafice 8 or even 9 figures to do it.

2)Figure out some way to negate the Delawarians of the league that have no state taxes. Put a curve in the Salary Cap that balances the playing field even for the Canadians. You've got a "player's league", that falls apart without the Dolan's of the world. We saw that when all these millionaire brand atheletes tried to run their own league the last time the owners pulled the plug. Change the system it by manipulating the money in a way that actually creates opportunities by promoting parity.

3)Go back to a draft system that makes tanking absolutely meaningless. You want to suck enough Hinkie to be in the draft 10 years in a row? Prepare to put a suckhole product on the court WHILE explaining to your fan base that picking 8th almost every year is the way to go. And spare me your JFK frozen envelope bull****.

Then again, to quote a brilliant poster, why should any of the directly involved parties give a **** about what's best for the rest of the league? Think GS fans give a **** about Parity of opportunity?

Knixkik
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7/16/2018  6:06 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/16/2018  6:07 PM
Chandler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Silver is the best commish in sports, as was Stern. The popularity and growth of the league, with minimum drama, speaks for itself.

You'll have a tough time convincing me of that. Admittedly a little dated but even a little searching will show NBA is behind NFL, MLB, college football and potentially NASCAR.

Sorry about the link below but just google
e.g.: https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=zcDe1u05&id=6913DAF561D3142DDF50F1E2BD9A6079F88A23A5&thid=OIP.zcDe1u05tVf0iT2j__qFhwHaFj&mediaurl=http%3a%2f%2fstatic3.businessinsider.com%2fimage%2f54e7a286eab8ea8a32d8ea8b-800-600%2f01-743.png&exph=600&expw=800&q=nba+vs+nfl+popularity&simid=608052128958254590&selectedIndex=5&ajaxhist=0

We are obviously fanatics and love the game (myself included), but it's a hard draw for new fans. Hey be a fan, next NBA championship will be between GS and Cleveland again. Watch Lebron hog the ball and hopefully pull of a miracle. This year we already know it will be whoever wins the West and that will be Houston or GS or a miracle by Lakers.

On top of that, we're headed for another labor issue. Hey billionaire owners at odds with players making 40 mill/year -- that's exciting. let's raise ticket prices

CBA has huge flaws in it. Middle tier players are being phased out so that teams can chase max or near-max guys who then get their money, play worse and you're stuck with them sinking your teams already minimal odds wsince you don't have Lebron, KD, Step, Harden (see Noah, Melo, Bazemore, Parsons, on and on). In the NFL those guys get released and the team can truly rebuild. NBA they get put in a rubber room like bad teachers and still collect their multi-millions

the only thing Stern and Silver have to their credit is: internationalizing the market; increasing prices; and decreasing real competition and any sense that a team can turn things around to contender status


Having a hard time drawing new fans? The NBA dominates social media and has the biggest faces in sports. Free agency has become an event, and so has summer league. No other league has that. NBA has year-round interest and doesn't have the same off-the-field concerns or safety concerns as the leading competition in football. We want parody but these repeat finals matchups draws additional story lines. There's a reason the NBA took off when Magic and Bird met all of the time. There's a reason the stars get big money and the TV deals are crazy, because the NBA is doing extremely well in popularity. I'm really not sure how it can even be debated to be honest. I think dynasties are great for sports and will raise the level of competition and conversation for how to beat those teams.
BRIGGS
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7/16/2018  10:41 PM
It would be great to find a team that was fiesty enough to beat GS-- that provides the must c tv
RIP Crushalot😞
Chandler
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7/17/2018  1:44 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Chandler wrote:Triple.

Why can't we have a rule, where a team can release a player but still honor payment. By release they free cap space, he remains under contract to the team (though he can't play)


It's a good question, but several reasons

A) Cash rich teams would have an unfair advantage. Early Mark Cuban could have released a player, cleared the space, then traded for a bad contract with draft picks or young assets, then released the player and kept doing it. Draft picks actually have a related "cash" valuation to them. Which is why you don't see Ryan Anderson get traded. The draft pick cost to dump his contract isn't worth the trade off in potential cost controlled labor. Your suggestion would force the valuation to skyrocket. Which further disbalances the league.

We all saw the Yankees and Red Sox go to war with money. No other teams had a chance money wise and international free agents were impossible to get. Boston got Dice K, Yankees got Contreras , while they might not have panned out as hoped, the system was tilted for a cash rich team.

B) It invites cap manipulation. David West is aging. Some team wants him but signs him to a 5 year deal (let's say the Over 38 Rule did not exist and would not exist here and it could not function in this scenario), then the team releases him after Year 1. It's a way to backload a contract and not eat the cap hit. This would create a way to make teams even more top heavy, which kills playoff games , which kills total revenue.

C) Bad contracts stack up, and would make teams impossible to resell. Not many prospective owners would buy a team knowing it had 150 million in dead contracts locked up for players long gone. The resale value of the team plummets. Which impacts the valuation of ALL NBA teams. You'd also see a mass phase out of GMs in place. A GM is trying to save his own job. This kind of money deferred would force nearly all team decisions to be owner vetted. Do you want more guys like Dolan running their teams directly?

The NFL model is the best compromise. Non guaranteed, but with guaranteed money in signing bonuses, which have a cap hit spread out over the contract length. The problem is that a few NBA player disproportionately make the impact and drive the marketing of the game.

Technically the veterans' minimum contract works the way you suggest.

Other issues would include "service time" Guys would be released en masse but still under contract. Vested guys like Noah, it's not a huge issue, but it would create a groundswell of fringe guys workaround-ing for their pension, which is a cost owners won't bear and the NBAPA won't bear ( it's more money spread out not going to their core members)

What you suggest could be possible but would need some really specific conditions. Someone like Nick Collision, who spent his entire career with the Thunder, has a certain amount of tenure, was drafted by his current team and makes less than X amount, I think you could argue a cap exemption to keep a fan favorite but not a franchise player would be desirable and feasible.

So we end up in a situation where Oakland, Houston, Cleveland (all small markets) can be stacked and LA and NYC suck because they tried but failed (e.g., mozgov, deng, noah, melo) and then are handcuffed for years

We need a better solution

Likewise you have the problem with the max player. E.g., Durant, LeBron etc. They're going to make their money wherever they go. SO why would they not want to do a bitch mover like KD did and join GS. Winning is more fun

In the "real" world an employee would expect more money or options to go to a company that was struggling

then you have the issue another poster raised which is, if the only path to break mediocrity or suckiness is full tank -- how is that good for the fanbase or the sport

putting aside that basktetball is so much fun to watch it, I don't know how anyone can look at this situation and think other than the system is screwed and rigged, one step away from world wide wrestling.

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knicks1248
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7/17/2018  4:22 PM
The league is big trend, in fact, every thing in the world is base on a trend. People follow what others do that's just the way life works.

Having 3 all stars or more is what gets you a Title, it's just that some owners get stupid lucky like the GSW and the Bulls.

Every blue moon you get a team like the O4 Pistons, and the mavericks who put together a deep squad(basically through trades and FA) and win 1 title.

Whats is Silver suppose to do limit the amount of all stars per team, double the taxes, give them more back to back games then 29 other teams.

the only way this becomes a real concerned is if all stars start taking major pay cuts to play with friends or loaded teams.

ES
arkrud
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7/17/2018  4:38 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/17/2018  4:39 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Chandler wrote:We need a better solution

Likewise you have the problem with the max player. E.g., Durant, LeBron etc. They're going to make their money wherever they go. SO why would they not want to do a bitch mover like KD did and join GS. Winning is more fun

Kawhi Leonard - F - Spurs

Kawhi Leonard is now eligible for a supermax extension with the Spurs.
The Spurs could offer Leonard a five-year extension worth roughly $221 million, but if he's traded, the most he could receive in an extension offer would be $108 million over four years. As a free agent, he'd be able to sign a five-year deal worth $190 million with the team that acquired him or four years for $141 million with a team that had the cap space. Things must have really rubbed Leonard the wrong way for him to be willing to leave that much money on the table.
Source: ESPN
Jul 16 - 5:07 PM


The NBA has done everything possible to create incentives for a "franchise" player to stay with his drafting team.

The cost to get a players Bird Rights in this environment is so prohibitive that the difference is a staggering 80 million. The extension Wall and Westbrook signed are literally franchise crippling for the long haul.

Tanking isn't the problem, talent scarcity based on height dependency is the problem. Even if the league found a way to kill pure tanking, there is just not enough incoming franchise changing talent to turn teams around fast enough. You can't make people taller, but you can negate the value of the height/athleticism matrix at work.

The structure of the game need to change. Raise the rim. Shorten the shot clock. Make starting rosters into 7 players. Add in a 4 point shot, then a 5 point half court shot. Remove foul outs but increase other foul based penalties. Use a soccer standard were certain players cannot cross the half court line marker. In a previous era, the rules changed because George Mikan was just too dominant. You have to artificially decrease the impact difference in the tiers between players.

Too complicated... Just set a hard cap like in Hockey and expand the league with more teams.
NHL became crazy competitive and all but 5-6 teams can compete every season.
To kill tanking 2 last place teams have to go to G-League and the best 2 G-League teams should join NBA.
This will be a real dog-fight for every point.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
arkrud
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7/17/2018  5:40 PM
knicks1248 wrote:The league is big trend, in fact, every thing in the world is base on a trend. People follow what others do that's just the way life works.

Having 3 all stars or more is what gets you a Title, it's just that some owners get stupid lucky like the GSW and the Bulls.

Every blue moon you get a team like the O4 Pistons, and the mavericks who put together a deep squad(basically through trades and FA) and win 1 title.

Whats is Silver suppose to do limit the amount of all stars per team, double the taxes, give them more back to back games then 29 other teams.

the only way this becomes a real concerned is if all stars start taking major pay cuts to play with friends or loaded teams.

Just hard-cap them.... Not a big secret.
But NBA is about making money by few not spreading the wealth.
Typical ugly capitalism in its worst monopoly form.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Adam Silver encourages Warriors to ‘increase their dominance’

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