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If Knox proves to be the real deal, where does our under-25 core rank?
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Knixkik
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7/11/2018  4:12 PM
Let's say Knox keeps up this momentum into the season and looks every part the future all-star.

KP is a current all-star when healthy. Ntilikina is still a project but looks like a future all-defense role player at least.

Where does KP, Knox, Ntilikina rank among other top U-25 core groups based on what we can project right now?

Boston- Tatum, Brown, Rozier
Philly- Embiid, Simmons, Saric, Fultz
LA Lakers- Ingram, Kuzma, Ball
Bucks- Greek Freak, Parker, Brogdon
Chicago- Markkanen, Carter, LaVine, Dunn
Suns- Ayton, Booker, Jackson, Bridges
Denver- Jokic, Murray, Harris, Porter

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nykshaknbake
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7/11/2018  6:08 PM
Definitely not as good as Philly
But if Knox is an all star and KP is healthy(Big IFs), no reason we aren't better than the rest.
Knixkik
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7/11/2018  6:21 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:Definitely not as good as Philly
But if Knox is an all star and KP is healthy(Big IFs), no reason we aren't better than the rest.

I agree but the same injury concerns hold true with Philly.

JrZyHuStLa
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7/11/2018  6:40 PM
Sixers core is overrated.

Injury prone guys and can't shoot.

knicks1248
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7/11/2018  7:13 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:Sixers core is overrated.

Injury prone guys and can't shoot.

your right, but they had a very balance roster(youth, veterans, shooters, slashers, defenders) a very good playmaker, and even when Embiid sat they were still winning..they played hard and together every night.


IMO..Talent will get you over the top, but max effort and preparation will always keep you above average

ES
TheGame
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7/12/2018  2:47 AM
Robinson is going to be a high quality defensive center. Frank, KP, Knox, and Robinson with Hardaway is going to be rock solid in 2 years.
Playoffs or bust
Knixkik
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7/12/2018  8:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/12/2018  8:38 AM
TheGame wrote:Robinson is going to be a high quality defensive center. Frank, KP, Knox, and Robinson with Hardaway is going to be rock solid in 2 years.

I really hope so. We need a break here. Robinson definitely has the upside, but Knox is the key here. If he can show Tatum-like production in year 1, sky is the limit for this group.

stanleybostitch
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7/12/2018  9:23 AM
KP, Frank, Knox, Robinson, Hardaway...plus a potential lotto selection next year - that's a great core. Add KD and we're kings of the east.
Patience with the rebuild, keep all the picks, no starphucks, and team-first attitude. Marinate a couple years and we're playing like the '72 team. Championship here we come!
Nalod
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7/12/2018  9:28 AM
Our core 3 has very high ceiling!
Not everyone is sold on Frank, but the fact is one just has to sold on the potential he can perhaps become a 15 pt scorer.
As for knox and KP, one is just a baby and the other an injured Unicorn.
Cap space for two stars that can visualize this core and we might be on the road to some fun times ahead.
Craig Robinson's secret sauce development and the "Cool Fiz" has to have some tangible results to sell.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Chandler
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7/12/2018  9:37 AM
Sixers are good but there's something missing for me. I used to play volleyball fairly competitively and there were always teams that could win warm-ups but couldn't win the tough games.

If KP or KK gets that killer instinct (ala Paul Pierce; Larry Bird; Big Papi etc) we're looking good. Melo was the opposite of big papi

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
martin
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7/12/2018  10:01 AM
Chandler wrote:Sixers are good but there's something missing for me. I used to play volleyball fairly competitively and there were always teams that could win warm-ups but couldn't win the tough games.

If KP or KK gets that killer instinct (ala Paul Pierce; Larry Bird; Big Papi etc) we're looking good. Melo was the opposite of big papi

Oh nice, beach? indoor?

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GustavBahler
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7/12/2018  11:07 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/12/2018  11:08 AM
Good question, hadnt really thought about it. Even if Frank turns the corner on offense, I think we need one more promising first round pick to really be in the conversation.

If Trier shows a more complete game, night in and night out, that could change things, and really get FAs attention like Durant.

Chandler
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7/12/2018  12:59 PM
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:Sixers are good but there's something missing for me. I used to play volleyball fairly competitively and there were always teams that could win warm-ups but couldn't win the tough games.

If KP or KK gets that killer instinct (ala Paul Pierce; Larry Bird; Big Papi etc) we're looking good. Melo was the opposite of big papi

Oh nice, beach? indoor?

when I was young and stupider, beach (more a tall man's game than indoor); then indoor. IIRC you and Andrew play vball too. Anyway if so I'm sure you know what I mean; guys who beat the snot out of the ball in warmup drills and then send SCUDs when they need a point

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
GustavBahler
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7/12/2018  2:08 PM
From Mannix..

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/dont-look-now-appears-knicks-finally-building-right-way-144323830.html

Nalod
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7/12/2018  2:55 PM
GustavBahler wrote:From Mannix..

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/dont-look-now-appears-knicks-finally-building-right-way-144323830.html

Poor briggs, what shall he do if he can't heal thy knicks by himself?

Good for Knicks! This is what many of us wanted all along. I know some fans are back tracking on impatience reading stuff like this but this is what we all hoped pHil would do. He at least started the process and thought he could at least compete with Melo but we all know that's a bygone era.
This is refreshing.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
PhilinLA
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7/12/2018  2:59 PM
I think Robinson moves us way up. Looks like we got two lottery types instead of one this year. And Knox should have gone higher.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
TripleThreat
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7/12/2018  3:27 PM
Knixkik wrote:Let's say Knox keeps up this momentum into the season and looks every part the future all-star.

KP is a current all-star when healthy. Ntilikina is still a project but looks like a future all-defense role player at least.

Where does KP, Knox, Ntilikina rank among other top U-25 core groups based on what we can project right now?

Boston- Tatum, Brown, Rozier
Philly- Embiid, Simmons, Saric, Fultz
LA Lakers- Ingram, Kuzma, Ball
Bucks- Greek Freak, Parker, Brogdon
Chicago- Markkanen, Carter, LaVine, Dunn
Suns- Ayton, Booker, Jackson, Bridges
Denver- Jokic, Murray, Harris, Porter


I wouldn't blink twice to trade Zinger, Frank N and Fort Knox for the groups from Boston, Philly, Suns and Bucks. I don't like Jabari Parker and Brogdon too much, but Greek Freak is worth more than the three Knicks players combined.

I wouldn't trade across for the Lakers and Denvers groups, but I think they have more upside.

The Chicago package would be one I think it worth appreciably less than the Knicks group. MarkksMan I think will have the longest overall NBA career out of everyone.

I understand why some people don't vibe on the Philly group, but if the 76ers offered Embiid , Simmons and either Fultz or Saric for the Knicks package, would anyone really say No?

Put it this way, if the 76ers asked for Zinger, Knox and Frank N for Embiid, plenty of real life GMs would make that deal if they ran the Knicks.

Knox has had a few good games against a mix of moderate NBA talent and non NBA talent. These other lists, many, have established players in them.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
technomaster
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7/12/2018  3:33 PM
I think there are still some significant questions to be answered about our team (Knox/Mitchell/Trier have yet to play an NBA game, whereas many of the other teams have young stars with years of NBA experience.

It might be better to rank the BEST player of these teams... unless there's a 2nd who's really close...

1. Bucks- Antetekounmpo is already a top-5 player in the league - he's about as good as anyone.
2. Philly- Embiid and Simmons are both excellent players who took their team to the 2nd round of the playoffs. With two really nice players, perhaps Philly should be #1.
3. Knicks - Assuming KP returns to form, we have a lot of upside here. He's an absolute mismatch and is huge difference maker on D. And aren't we already hyping up Knox as KD 2.0 or PG13 2.0?
4. Boston- Tatum has a chance to be a HoF sort of player... though I'm a little skeptical whether he'll have the opportunity to be awesome, at least for a few years while he competes with Brown and Hayward. I don't think Brown is all that. I do like Rozier, but it remains to be seen what his future holds on the Celtics.
5. Denver- Jokic is amazing, not so crazy about the others.
6. Suns- Booker is great, let's see what they have in Ayton.
7. LA Lakers- I'm not amazed by Ingram, Ball, or Kuzma. I don't see any of them being NBA superstars.
8. Chicago- Markkanen, Carter, LaVine, Dunn - I don't know enough about Carter or Markkanen, but the other 2 guys are NOT future superstars.


Individually, here are my assumptions:

KP: Returns to his 2017-2018 season form. Key shortcoming is his ability to make plays for teammates - plus he learned a bit of ISO-Melo style. He doesn't currently pass for assists, making the need for playmakers around him more paramount. When you're 7'3" and can shoot it there are no bad looks, but there are potentially better looks available from teammates and those passes make the defense work harder.

Knox: Wow, his summer league performances make him look like a very strong contender for ROY and future all-star. Makes quick decisions and his highly aggressive when he has room. Based on his college performance, he has room to improve his bball IQ and playmaking for others, but he may already have a better feel for creating for others than KP. There's a bit of an open question as to our best projections for him long term (Rudy Gay, Al Harrington, Durant 2.0, PG13). If he's a bit more like the latter 2, the Knicks can be really, really good.

Ntilikina: I think the first 2 summer league games answered some questions. The 20-year old season 2 version of Ntilikina seems to have refined his scoring skills/technique. I feel pretty good that he'll improve his fg% by at least 5%. It was pretty clear in game 2 he made a conscious effort to go into attack mode and look for his shot. It's pretty clear to all of us that isn't natural for him, but can he learn how to turn it on as he gains more experience and develops as a player? I'm not sure. I'm currently thinking his upside will be that of the 33 year old Pippen when he first joined the Blazers - or a better playmaking version of Trevor Ariza (ie his first run with Houston at age 24). 14ppg/6apg/6rpg/2spg. This actually would be PERFECT alongside KP and Knox.

We also have a few other young pieces worth mentioning:
Hezonja: Tough to say what we have here, but I'm thinking we'll see a lot of what we saw in his last season with the injury riddled Orlando Magic - he could basically produce along the lines of a Morris Twin. 15ppg/6rpg/3apg. He still has immense upside and could develop into a borderline all-star under the right team and system, but at the same time, given his contract he'd be one of the first to go if we have an opportunity to get a max player next year.

Mitchell Robinson: More than the Capela comparisons, I like the Hassan Whiteside comparisons, possibly DeAndre Jordan. I think Briggs was all high on Whiteside like 8 years ago pre-draft. It took him about 5 years for him to get a shot at the NBA and shocked the league with his rebounding and scoring prowess. Robinson is extremely athletic and has been surprisingly productive in the summer league despite taking a year off from organized basketball. That speaks to some good natural instinct on the basketball court, something that's been downplayed. He looks like a better/quicker athlete than Ayton to me, and it's a matter of whether he can develop any above average skills to complement his raw athleticism. He's somewhat of an X-factor here. Under the tutelage of a teaching staff, might he surprise all and surpass some of the lottery bigs in this draft?

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
BigDaddyG
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7/12/2018  3:50 PM
technomaster wrote:
5. Denver- Jokic is amazing, not so crazy about the others.

Harris and Murray are really good man. Trey Lyle's is showing flashes and MPJ...well he's boom or bust. I like their young core quite a bit.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
technomaster
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7/12/2018  3:55 PM
I've had Jamal Murray on a keeper fantasy league since his rookie year so I've been following him. Nothing about him screams superstar. I guess if CJ McCollum can become a 20+ppg scorer... I guess Murray can also take the next step. I just don't see him as being more than a very good scoring guard, not an all-NBA sort of player. (borderline all-star, but hey, he's really just doing what SGs are supposed to do, right?)
Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
If Knox proves to be the real deal, where does our under-25 core rank?

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