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I can see us in Playoffs without KP
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7/13/2018  10:43 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
franco12 wrote:
Mike1989 wrote:
dodger78 wrote:
Mike1989 wrote:
Marv wrote:last thing i want this year is getting in the playoffs. i want to play nothing but youth and come back in ‘19-20 with kp, a high #1 and 2 and go for it.

The question is would tanking for a high pick prevent us from being a contender in 2019 free agency?

The top free agents don't tend to go to teams on the back of a tanking season, with an injury prone star talent coming off an ACL injury.

Now if we made the play offs without KP and got swept by the top seed, that would be more appealing to free agents because we got there without our star and a top level free agent. So our pitch is adding them plus a returning KP could see us make a jump into contender status in the east.

So it's a difficult one because as nice as it would be to add another top pick to this team, it might make adding one or two max level free agents more difficult unless they truly want to play in New York at Madison Square Garden, which is always touted to be a huge thing but in recent times players have tended to go elsewhere. For me I'd rather see us be competitive next season because that would aid the development of our players and culture, while also giving us the best chance to show potential free agents that we've got appealing talent other than KP.

You mean... like the Lakers?

Lakers didn't tank. They finished on 35 win and their young core progressed. They played competitively and not draft focused. If we did the same and finished with a similar win count we could still be a factor in free agency. However a tank job for a top pick could put free agents off. The Lakers built a strong young core and style of play and culture. So year on year it's been building towards this off season.

It is worth noting that LeBron heading to LA has been speculated about for years. When he left Miami there were rumors, there were rumors before he extended short term with the Cavs, and rumors again this off season. His kid has committed to play in LA, he's got a production company and interest in Hollywood. So there was always a lot going for LA. He might say he's joined them to win, but I think most look at it as a nice final pay day in a huge market with excellent lifestyle benefits.

Don't get me wrong players do apparently want to play here but we've not been a free agent draw in quite some time. There are attractions to playing here but we've not got the banners that the Lakers do, the media here can be tough to deal with, our owner hasn't exactly been great for us, our front office hasn't always done well for us, and we've gone through head coaches for fun. So for every positive there are negatives. So for us to be attractive next year we need to be competitive and promote a strong culture that proves our front office knows what it's doing and has a long term plan, and our coaching staff are building a strong and positive culture that sets up a long term play off team here and ideally contender.

For me next season we have to try to win games, not tank for another high pick.

what was our last big free agent signing that actually worked out? Maybe Allan Houston?

I really don't care if FA avoid us in 2019. In fact, I don't want us spending money just because we have it (THjr, Amare). I'd rather keep our powder fresh, keep flexibility and continue to try to find impact players in the draft.

I want us to lose 82 games by 1 pt every game!

I think there are different ways to lose. We can lose close games, be competitive. Or, like we've done in the past, be down 10/20 points in the first half, opening minutes and cruise to the loss.

I think our play will surprise people. I don't know that it will translate to wins. And that is ok.

I want a FA to look at us, say - I can take them over the top. I can make a difference. I can make an impact.

I wonder if they consider trading Kanter's expiring for a longer term deal and another first rounder (like nets w/Carrol) if it looks like they can't move Lee to get more cap space. It might be the way to go. A lot of talk about growing the roster organically. They nailed the draft and coaching choice this year.
i think i saw an interview with perry where he said he didnt intend on adding salary past this season since they are gearing up for next summer. Things can change if they compensation is really good but it seems like thats the plan as of now
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7/13/2018  10:52 AM
Im not seeing much of 24 year old Dodson on the team unless he picks it up. Fringe NBA talent.
Baker has his contract and might stick because of it, but not beyond this season unless he really shows up.
That's two off.
Mudiay has the talent and size. Burke we control just one more year? Not sure we reup him but if we do its after the big boys are gone next summer.
We might lose him.
Frank passing, defense, steals, rebounding all make everyone better. He is Kwai, he is Manu, he is pippin, he is Draymond, He is rodman, he is bowen, he is a lot of guys that don't have to put up big numbers to make a difference. And that offense might still come. Have to beat that unselfish thing out of him! My goodness, what an awful thing!!
Never tank, if we make the playoffs its evident good things are happening with the team!!! We seem to be youthful process building and seemingly should have a good pick next year.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
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7/13/2018  7:18 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Mike1989 wrote:The question is would tanking for a high pick prevent us from being a contender in 2019 free agency?

This is not the problem.

The problem is that the Knicks cannot organically tank. The "organic" version of tanking is to trade off veteran players for draft assets. You use the minutes during games to try to develop young drafted talent and UDFA type talent, and see what you have or try to raise their value to retrade them. You naturally lose enough games to be in the running for a high draft pick in the lottery, infusing you with hope for a franchise player.

This is the ideal scenario.

The Knicks have players who they can't trade, but will help them win enough games to NOT get a high lottery pick. Also the East is gutted, so it's much harder to lose games when your middling team faces other teams who aren't as strong as Western teams. Also the league is more top heavy, so you'll have more teams starting to tank earlier, which means the Knicks will increase their win count there also.

THIS FREE AGENCY was the time to strike. No teams have cap space, this would have been the time to reach out and have max money to throw at someone. Or get players into bargain deals. Avery Bradley signed for 2/24, he might have been swayed by 3/36, if it was there to use. IT2 signed for the vets minimum, he might have been swayed by a two year deal. This would also be the time to absorb contracts for teams desperate to stay out of the tax zone or repeater zone.

ALL OF THIS WAS PREDICTABLE. Every team has cap analysts forecasting years in advance. Any forward thinking NBA front office would have seen this offseason coming two years ago. Instead the Knicks blew their wad on Rose, Lee, Noah, THJr, ugh.

You can't bank on free agency. Anything Perry says in the press means ZERO. If Klay Thompson says I want to be a Knick, do you think Perry will stick to some random interview and not try to sign him? You build assets, you stay flexible, when something interesting happens, you are prepared to strike.

The Knicks are too far off to interest a Tier 1 free agent.

This is exactly what the Knicks get for hiring a front office head (Jackson) who had no training and experience at that kind of job. Then he hired a coach ( Fisher) who had no training and experience at that job. What did anyone think was going to happen?

Keep trying to draft well. Don't sign anyone until Tier 5 of free agency ( they don't have any money anyway). Suck it up and let these ugly contracts expire because there is no other choice.

You don't hire a mechanic to run a bakery. You don't hire a baker to fix someone's brakes. Hiring Phil Jackson was one of the most purely dumb things I've seen in professional sports and I've seen some of the ugliest things possible with the Cleveland Browns and Oakland Raiders that didn't even make the press. How you **** up to the measure of Al Davis' last senile years and the dumpster fire that is the Browns is beyond me.

Phil Jackson horse****ed this team. Full stop. End of story. But he drafted Zinger! Any first year NBA intern could have done that. It's going to take time for Perry, a guy trained for this job, to try to fix it.

He didn't need his incompetent boss to throw gas on the fire by signing Hardaway jr. Every time I think this nonsense is over someone does something stupid
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7/13/2018  9:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2018  10:02 PM
Even if all the rookies and younger players, which basically means everyone, play well, this team will likely struggle to win many games. They might hang around in games but closing out good teams will be tough for these kids. And that’s fine. Just want them to battle. 20-25 wins wouldn’t mean the young core or coaching is terrible like fan favorite knicks1248 states, not in the least. It’s all about context. let’s say 24 wins. Maybe they are dreadful for most of the first 50 games but the kids learn how to play. Even many of the best players of all time
Struggled early on to win games. Many lost a ton of games. What if the Knicks only win 11 games over that first sixty but KP comes back...gets his groove and the Knicks go 13-7 over their final 20... with everyone showing promise? That would be fine... and it’s likely to happen. We’d be in fine shape.

Or maybe the Knicks play even better than 24 wins. Stranger things have happened. I know I’m excited for this season and beyond. I truly think the knicks are in a very good place but it’s not going to manifest in wins just yet. Wait for it...

I can see us in Playoffs without KP

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