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OT: The Sterling Brown situation
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newyorknewyork
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6/5/2018  7:08 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/video-shows-milwaukee-police-trying-protect-sterling-brown-arrest-170653832.html

Click link for videos.

A Wisconsin television news station uncovered more footage from the Milwaukee Police Department’s controversial arrest of Milwaukee Bucks rookie Sterling Brown this past January, and it does no favors for the half-dozen officers currently defending themselves against accusations of racism and brutality.

The latest videos from WISN-TV show one officer needlessly stepping on Brown’s ankle while he is pinned face down on the asphalt and handcuffed. Other officers express concern about their actions only after realizing the “media firestorm” they were sure to create because Brown plays for the Bucks. And to put a cherry on top of these shameful videos, another officer laughs about their use of a Taser while singing The O’Jays’ “For the Love of Money” on a call requesting overtime pay.

In other words, while a white police officer was brutalizing a black man, his fellow officers were plotting their defense against racism, all while they wanted overtime for this police work. This is disgusting. It is vile. And it captures everything that is broken with a system that former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick was trying to warn us about by kneeling more than a year ago.

In one two-minute clip posted by WISN-TV, an officer is seen stepping on Brown’s ankle after he was Tased and tackled, while another presses his cheek firmly into the Walgreens parking lot pavement.

“You’re stepping on my ankle, for what?” asked Brown, whose ankles are his livelihood.

“So you don’t kick us,” the officer said.

“I ain’t got no reason to kick y’all, man,” added Brown. He made no attempts to kick the officers.

That’s when another officer asked, “Are you a Bucks player, man?”
‘Are you a Bucks player, man?’

And that’s the moment you know just how horrible their actions are, because that’s the moment they start to realize that they might not be able to get away with the same brutality they can with someone who doesn’t play for the Bucks, someone who wouldn’t have the same mouthpiece as an NBA player.

We know this because another WISN-TV video showed this exchange between three officers:

“The bureau is coming out for this?”

“We’re trying to protect ourselves.”

“Because he’s a Bucks player?”

“Because he plays for the Bucks, if he makes a complaint, it’s going to be a [expletive] media firestorm.”

“Oh yeah.”

“And then any little [expletive] thing that goes wrong is going to be, ‘Ooh, the Milwaukee Police Department is all racist … blah, blah, blah.'”


Two things we learned from this exchange: 1) These officers do not believe the bureau would be concerned with their behavior if Brown was a black man who did not happen to play for the Bucks, and 2) If you’re a police officer who is trying to protect yourself from the bureau coming out to question you about racism, you’re probably being racist. Again, this is sickening footage to watch.
‘Taser, Taser, Taser’

Somehow, it gets worse.

After a handful of officers Tased Brown, tackled him to the ground and stepped on his ankle for illegally parking in an empty Walgreen’s parking lot around 2 a.m. on Jan. 26, one of the officers wanted to make sure he was getting paid extra for this excessive force, so he called from his car.

“Money, money, money,” he sang over the phone after Brown was taken to the hospital.

Asked about the Taser, the officer said, “I don’t have a Taser,” adding that it belonged to Officer Bojan Samardzic. “He was told to,” the officer added. “Sergeant [Sean A.] Mahnke said, ‘tase, tase, tase.’ We were fighting with him, and it wasn’t working. Sgt. Mahnke said, ‘Taser, Taser, Taser,’ so he Tased him.”

The officer imitated the sound of a Taser. He then laughed before getting off the phone.
Milwaukee police can’t get the story straight

Video released by the department late last month showed Officer Joseph Grams approaching Brown at his vehicle, which was parked across multiple handicapped spaces in an empty parking lot outside of a Walgreen’s in the middle of a late January night. Grams called for backup, harassed Brown and accused him of “getting up in” his face, which did not happen on camera. At least five more officers arrived on scene, where Brown was ultimately Tased and tackled despite no visual signs of resistance.

Police reports written in the aftermath of the incident did not reflect what took place on video. After being taken to the hospital to treat his injuries, Brown was booked into Milwaukee County Jail. He was never criminally charged. WISN-TV also just released photos taken by police of Brown’s injuries:

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meloshouldgo
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6/5/2018  11:11 PM
Whatever I try to say will come out wrong.
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
NardDogNation
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6/5/2018  11:59 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:Whatever I try to say will come out wrong.

There is no justification or rationalization for what took place and how he was treated. And the reality is that he could've been a choir boy and I doubt the end result would've been much different.

newyorknewyork
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6/6/2018  12:11 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Whatever I try to say will come out wrong.

There is no justification or rationalization for what took place and how he was treated. And the reality is that he could've been a choir boy and I doubt the end result would've been much different.

I feel that once they saw that nice car belonged to a black dude wearing nice jewelry. The cop purposely escalated the situation so that they can find cause to search his car. Probably believing that they would find something.

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smackeddog
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6/6/2018  2:12 AM
As usual disgraceful actions followed by lying and covering up. Sorry, but if they've submitted a report saying one thing and the video shows its lies then they should at the very least be fired on the spot.
NardDogNation
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6/6/2018  8:59 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Whatever I try to say will come out wrong.

There is no justification or rationalization for what took place and how he was treated. And the reality is that he could've been a choir boy and I doubt the end result would've been much different.

I feel that once they saw that nice car belonged to a black dude wearing nice jewelry. The cop purposely escalated the situation so that they can find cause to search his car. Probably believing that they would find something.

The recording literally starts with the cop walking up to Brown and then shoving him, so there definitely was intent to escalate the situation. I gaurantee you he wouldn't have done that had he not had a gun, didn't have the ability to call in a squad of help and been in plain clothes.

newyorknewyork
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6/6/2018  10:02 AM
http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-news/mesa-police-chief-officers-on-leave-after-video-showing-use-of-physical-force-surfaced#/

Crazy

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Cartman718
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6/6/2018  10:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/6/2018  10:11 AM
Number of exams it takes to get into a police academy : 1
Number of boot camps one has to go through: 1
Number of psych exams: 1

Number of exams it takes to, say, get into a company like google : 1 or 2
Number of interviews one has to go through: 10 (not even joking about that).
Number of psych exams: 1

% of people relying on Google for all of their services: 90
% of people relying on the police force for law enforcement: 100

For the police force...this is what the test focuses on...and clearly fails on especially since its not periodic.
The Purpose of Psychological Screening
Pre-employment psychological screening evaluates a number of personality traits to help formulate an opinion about whether or not a candidate would be a good hiring choice. According to Dr. Gary Fischler, an assistant professor of psychology at the University of Minnesota and a forensic psychologist whose practice specializes in the evaluation of potential law enforcement officers, those traits include:

Impulse control far too many fail in my opinion
General intelligence
Judgment far too many fail in my opinion
Ability to perform boring or tedious tasks some fail in my opinion
Reasonable courage
Honesty as soon as they are accused, they lie like a mofo
Integrity some fail as expected in any profession
Personal bias or lack of bias if this includes gender/race bias, many absolutely fail
Ability to tolerate stress score on this part not a big determining factor for what type of job they will take up within the force
What motivated the candidate to choose law enforcement All kinds of ridiculous answers like my dad was a cop are acceptable here, which is a problem
Dependability
Ability to deal with supervision
Appropriate attitudes towards sexuality
Prior drug use

The only reason I used Google as an example for comparison is because the stakes are just as high. Being a global company always in the limelight makes you susceptible to all kinds of lawsuits ("3 black people" google search anyone?) When you are a $110 billion dollar revenue company, everyone is looking at you, examining what you are doing, how well you are doing it etc etc. Each misstep can result in billions of dollars loss of revenue.

Coming to law enforcement, lives are at stake. Some may argue lives are worth more than billions, but the real world examples dictate that they are worth much less. And yet, cops are underpaid, overworked. Knowing a cop personally, he is not out in the field now, but he has 38 cases he is working on simultaneously. That's like working on 38 assignments at your own job. Think about it as to what kind of efficiency can be expected from even the best in your own company, and then factor in all the people that shouldn't become cops are still getting in and dealing with that work load.

It's a math and probabilities game. These things are bound to happen. Just like the political system, the youth of this country needs to become involved at a greater scale. We do hear about youth joining the armed forces, but how many youth do you hear about joining the police force?

In your own circle of friends and family, how many high school or community college or college graduates do you know of interested in joining the police force?

Just as much as the govt takes care of vets and their families, if they started taking care of police the same way, I am sure the recruiting numbers will rise dramatically. They absolutely must get paid more if they are to entice well qualified people to join.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
meloshouldgo
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6/6/2018  12:36 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Whatever I try to say will come out wrong.

There is no justification or rationalization for what took place and how he was treated. And the reality is that he could've been a choir boy and I doubt the end result would've been much different.

Who said anything about justifying or rationalizing anything? I just didn't want to type all those expletives that came to mind.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
newyorknewyork
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6/6/2018  12:48 PM
Cartman718 wrote:Number of exams it takes to get into a police academy : 1
Number of boot camps one has to go through: 1
Number of psych exams: 1

Number of exams it takes to, say, get into a company like google : 1 or 2
Number of interviews one has to go through: 10 (not even joking about that).
Number of psych exams: 1

% of people relying on Google for all of their services: 90
% of people relying on the police force for law enforcement: 100

For the police force...this is what the test focuses on...and clearly fails on especially since its not periodic.
The Purpose of Psychological Screening
Pre-employment psychological screening evaluates a number of personality traits to help formulate an opinion about whether or not a candidate would be a good hiring choice. According to Dr. Gary Fischler, an assistant professor of psychology at the University of Minnesota and a forensic psychologist whose practice specializes in the evaluation of potential law enforcement officers, those traits include:

Impulse control far too many fail in my opinion
General intelligence
Judgment far too many fail in my opinion
Ability to perform boring or tedious tasks some fail in my opinion
Reasonable courage
Honesty as soon as they are accused, they lie like a mofo
Integrity some fail as expected in any profession
Personal bias or lack of bias if this includes gender/race bias, many absolutely fail
Ability to tolerate stress score on this part not a big determining factor for what type of job they will take up within the force
What motivated the candidate to choose law enforcement All kinds of ridiculous answers like my dad was a cop are acceptable here, which is a problem
Dependability
Ability to deal with supervision
Appropriate attitudes towards sexuality
Prior drug use

The only reason I used Google as an example for comparison is because the stakes are just as high. Being a global company always in the limelight makes you susceptible to all kinds of lawsuits ("3 black people" google search anyone?) When you are a $110 billion dollar revenue company, everyone is looking at you, examining what you are doing, how well you are doing it etc etc. Each misstep can result in billions of dollars loss of revenue.

Coming to law enforcement, lives are at stake. Some may argue lives are worth more than billions, but the real world examples dictate that they are worth much less. And yet, cops are underpaid, overworked. Knowing a cop personally, he is not out in the field now, but he has 38 cases he is working on simultaneously. That's like working on 38 assignments at your own job. Think about it as to what kind of efficiency can be expected from even the best in your own company, and then factor in all the people that shouldn't become cops are still getting in and dealing with that work load.

It's a math and probabilities game. These things are bound to happen. Just like the political system, the youth of this country needs to become involved at a greater scale. We do hear about youth joining the armed forces, but how many youth do you hear about joining the police force?

In your own circle of friends and family, how many high school or community college or college graduates do you know of interested in joining the police force?

Just as much as the govt takes care of vets and their families, if they started taking care of police the same way, I am sure the recruiting numbers will rise dramatically. They absolutely must get paid more if they are to entice well qualified people to join.

Everything you wrote may be 100% accurate. And Im not even looking to debate you on the points you made. The comments I am going to make is only to shed light and create understanding.

When African Americans have voiced cause and effect and reasoning behind their issues they were met wit replies us playing the victim. Over the course of conversations I have had in discussing theses issues. I find myself hearing the same reasoning that minorities have been accused of playing the victim for as justification for law enforcement.

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newyorknewyork
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6/6/2018  12:59 PM
Imagine the time frame when there was no body cams and no social media to spread info like wild fire. When even the little accountability they have now was none existent. We all would have had to take law enforcement word for what transpired. Generations of this had built up the hostility and perception of police among African Americans an has been a big piece in molding the culture into what it has been.
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Cartman718
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6/6/2018  1:57 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:Everything you wrote may be 100% accurate. And Im not even looking to debate you on the points you made. The comments I am going to make is only to shed light and create understanding.

When African Americans have voiced cause and effect and reasoning behind their issues they were met wit replies us playing the victim. Over the course of conversations I have had in discussing theses issues. I find myself hearing the same reasoning that minorities have been accused of playing the victim for as justification for law enforcement.

As am I. It is disgusting what men, women, children of color are subjected to in this country by law enforcement. I was trying to gear the conversation more towards solution, unlike the "thoughts and prayers" we see all the time in the news.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
meloshouldgo
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6/6/2018  2:03 PM
Cartman718 wrote:Number of exams it takes to get into a police academy : 1
Number of boot camps one has to go through: 1
Number of psych exams: 1

Number of exams it takes to, say, get into a company like google : 1 or 2
Number of interviews one has to go through: 10 (not even joking about that).
Number of psych exams: 1

% of people relying on Google for all of their services: 90
% of people relying on the police force for law enforcement: 100

For the police force...this is what the test focuses on...and clearly fails on especially since its not periodic.
The Purpose of Psychological Screening
Pre-employment psychological screening evaluates a number of personality traits to help formulate an opinion about whether or not a candidate would be a good hiring choice. According to Dr. Gary Fischler, an assistant professor of psychology at the University of Minnesota and a forensic psychologist whose practice specializes in the evaluation of potential law enforcement officers, those traits include:

Impulse control far too many fail in my opinion
General intelligence
Judgment far too many fail in my opinion
Ability to perform boring or tedious tasks some fail in my opinion
Reasonable courage
Honesty as soon as they are accused, they lie like a mofo
Integrity some fail as expected in any profession
Personal bias or lack of bias if this includes gender/race bias, many absolutely fail
Ability to tolerate stress score on this part not a big determining factor for what type of job they will take up within the force
What motivated the candidate to choose law enforcement All kinds of ridiculous answers like my dad was a cop are acceptable here, which is a problem
Dependability
Ability to deal with supervision
Appropriate attitudes towards sexuality
Prior drug use

The only reason I used Google as an example for comparison is because the stakes are just as high. Being a global company always in the limelight makes you susceptible to all kinds of lawsuits ("3 black people" google search anyone?) When you are a $110 billion dollar revenue company, everyone is looking at you, examining what you are doing, how well you are doing it etc etc. Each misstep can result in billions of dollars loss of revenue.

Coming to law enforcement, lives are at stake. Some may argue lives are worth more than billions, but the real world examples dictate that they are worth much less. And yet, cops are underpaid, overworked. Knowing a cop personally, he is not out in the field now, but he has 38 cases he is working on simultaneously. That's like working on 38 assignments at your own job. Think about it as to what kind of efficiency can be expected from even the best in your own company, and then factor in all the people that shouldn't become cops are still getting in and dealing with that work load.

It's a math and probabilities game. These things are bound to happen. Just like the political system, the youth of this country needs to become involved at a greater scale. We do hear about youth joining the armed forces, but how many youth do you hear about joining the police force?

In your own circle of friends and family, how many high school or community college or college graduates do you know of interested in joining the police force?

Just as much as the govt takes care of vets and their families, if they started taking care of police the same way, I am sure the recruiting numbers will rise dramatically. They absolutely must get paid more if they are to entice well qualified people to join.

I reject the idea that you have to be "well qualified" to have basic decency or professionalism. A cop out (pun intended). The problem is racism it's not overwork. Unless you are arguing job related stress makes people racist or leads to racist outcomes? In which case I would be curious to know she you think one has any relevance on the other?

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Cartman718
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6/6/2018  2:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/6/2018  2:20 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:I reject the idea that you have to be "well qualified" to have basic decency or professionalism. A cop out (pun intended). The problem is racism it's not overwork. Unless you are arguing job related stress makes people racist or leads to racist outcomes? In which case I would be curious to know she you think one has any relevance on the other?

prejudices exist. they lead to fear. fears tend to come out in stressful situations, ultimately leading to bad actions. dont know if you saw where i said they absolutely fail on gender and race bias, although an initial exam may show "pass".

also it's a written exam as opposed to action-based exams, whereas in the field...it's all action and very little writing.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
TheGame
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USA
6/6/2018  2:58 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Whatever I try to say will come out wrong.

There is no justification or rationalization for what took place and how he was treated. And the reality is that he could've been a choir boy and I doubt the end result would've been much different.

I feel that once they saw that nice car belonged to a black dude wearing nice jewelry. The cop purposely escalated the situation so that they can find cause to search his car. Probably believing that they would find something.

Exactly. The officers just assumed he had to be a drug dealer so they were determined to create a scenario to search his car. It is shameful and then you have a President trying to shame players for protesting this type of police brutality.

Trust the Process
newyorknewyork
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6/6/2018  3:55 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I reject the idea that you have to be "well qualified" to have basic decency or professionalism. A cop out (pun intended). The problem is racism it's not overwork. Unless you are arguing job related stress makes people racist or leads to racist outcomes? In which case I would be curious to know she you think one has any relevance on the other?

prejudices exist. they lead to fear. fears tend to come out in stressful situations, ultimately leading to bad actions. dont know if you saw where i said they absolutely fail on gender and race bias, although an initial exam may show "pass".

also it's a written exam as opposed to action-based exams, whereas in the field...it's all action and very little writing.

Discussing this same issue on another platform. I believe it has more to do with lack of accountability. I believe racism in this country has empowered this lack of accountability. In this scenario they used prejudice, stereotypes, and profiling in order to manipulate the situation in order to search his car believing this could potentially lead to finding something. They have no fear of the consequences using these tactics because America will be split on the issue. They also feel comfortable being able to maniuplate their testemonials and will probably get full backing from their superiors in order to protect the shield. With no consequences its a win-win for them. As either they catch a drug dealer or at least dude with warrents or they keep it moving(that is unless they decide to plant something). Its only due to body cam footage, and the fact that he was a NBA player who will have the $$ to lawyer up. And be backed by his NBA peers, as well as have a platform to bring light to this case. Thats the only reason these tactics have backfired in this case. But the damage they have done with creating hostility toward police among African Americans is the true price being paid.

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meloshouldgo
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6/6/2018  7:51 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I reject the idea that you have to be "well qualified" to have basic decency or professionalism. A cop out (pun intended). The problem is racism it's not overwork. Unless you are arguing job related stress makes people racist or leads to racist outcomes? In which case I would be curious to know she you think one has any relevance on the other?

prejudices exist. they lead to fear. fears tend to come out in stressful situations, ultimately leading to bad actions. dont know if you saw where i said they absolutely fail on gender and race bias, although an initial exam may show "pass".

also it's a written exam as opposed to action-based exams, whereas in the field...it's all action and very little writing.

I don't disagree that the testing needs to be a lot more stringent in the filtering for future cops.
But I disagree with the rest of the narrative. A car parked in a empty Walgreens parking lot is NOT a stressful situation that leads to fear. It's a situation that could have bein handled a hundred different ways but the cops involved chose to escalate it into a racial altercation. What this type of narrative does, is it makes a soft landing for what is essentially a hate crime being perpetrated by the police. I am NOT saying that's what you were trying to do, just that it often has that consequence.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
NardDogNation
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6/6/2018  7:56 PM
I don't mean to hijack the thread or take away from the Sterling Brown topic but felt this is something that needs to be shared:

newyorknewyork
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6/7/2018  9:25 AM
NardDogNation wrote:I don't mean to hijack the thread or take away from the Sterling Brown topic but felt this is something that needs to be shared:

Yea, I posted a link for that earlier in the thread. Thanks for getting a direct video.

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Cartman718
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6/7/2018  5:49 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I reject the idea that you have to be "well qualified" to have basic decency or professionalism. A cop out (pun intended). The problem is racism it's not overwork. Unless you are arguing job related stress makes people racist or leads to racist outcomes? In which case I would be curious to know she you think one has any relevance on the other?

prejudices exist. they lead to fear. fears tend to come out in stressful situations, ultimately leading to bad actions. dont know if you saw where i said they absolutely fail on gender and race bias, although an initial exam may show "pass".

also it's a written exam as opposed to action-based exams, whereas in the field...it's all action and very little writing.

Discussing this same issue on another platform. I believe it has more to do with lack of accountability. I believe racism in this country has empowered this lack of accountability. In this scenario they used prejudice, stereotypes, and profiling in order to manipulate the situation in order to search his car believing this could potentially lead to finding something. They have no fear of the consequences using these tactics because America will be split on the issue. They also feel comfortable being able to maniuplate their testemonials and will probably get full backing from their superiors in order to protect the shield. With no consequences its a win-win for them. As either they catch a drug dealer or at least dude with warrents or they keep it moving(that is unless they decide to plant something). Its only due to body cam footage, and the fact that he was a NBA player who will have the $$ to lawyer up. And be backed by his NBA peers, as well as have a platform to bring light to this case. Thats the only reason these tactics have backfired in this case. But the damage they have done with creating hostility toward police among African Americans is the true price being paid.


lack of accountability, lack of periodic testing etc etc. think about a car being sold where the brakes only work sometimes. this lack of periodic testing is like a car running without brakes.

blame fox news style media for the stereotyping propagation against minorities.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
OT: The Sterling Brown situation

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