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who is the better team the Knicks or
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BRIGGS
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9/10/2004  11:21 AM
1 the lakers

2 the cavs

3 the utah jazz

4 the orlando magic

5 the pheonix suns

6 the La Clippers

7 the milwaukee bucks

8 the memphis grizlies
RIP Crushalot😞
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CTKnicksfan
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9/10/2004  11:38 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

1 the lakers

2 the cavs

3 the utah jazz

4 the orlando magic

5 the pheonix suns

6 the La Clippers

7 the milwaukee bucks

8 the memphis grizlies

Better than: Magic, Bucks, Clippers
On par with: Cavs, Suns
Not as good as: Lakers, Grizz, Jazz
fishmike
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9/10/2004  11:44 AM
Better than: Magic, Bucks, Clippers
On par with: Cavs, Suns
Not as good as: Lakers, Grizz, Jazz

I agree 100%... on a side note when you asked which 5 players I wanted to see play next year I should have added AK47 to the list. He's the most underated player in the NBA. Ironicly he's also the last player LAyden drafted for the Jazz. Figures.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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9/10/2004  12:10 PM
yeah that sounds about right

ill give the line ups of orlando the bucks and clippers to show how much true parity there is on paper---i tried to find teams that were considered middle of the road and left out the top 10 teams.

Orlando

C Cato 7-0 270
PF Howard 6-11 240
SF Hill 6-8 225
SG Mobely 6-4 200
PG Francis 6-3 215
Battie
Turkuglo
Garrity
Bogans
Nelson


Gadzuric 6-11 250
Joe Smith 6-10 240
KVH 6-10 245
Redd 6-6 230
James 6-2 190
Santiago 7-1 260
Haslip 6-10 Kukoc 6-11 240
Mason 6-6 220
Strickland 6-3 200


Clippers



C_Kaman 7-0 265
Brand 6-8 265
Maggette 6-6 235
Kittles 6-6 200
Jaric 6-7 210
Rebracca 7-0 260
Wilcox 6-10 235
Simmons 6-6 235
Livingston 6-7 180


i look at these clubs and i dont see greivious differences with the knicks--albeit taking TJ ford out of the bucks roster brings them down a notch

still all these teams IMHO trump us on size and rebounding and the Magic--if things turn right have maybe more potential than us.



thats why its so hard to prognasticate something like 50 wins. our hope is winning the atlantic which is the easiest route iMHO--it wont be EASY but it is the easiest
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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9/10/2004  1:36 PM
thats why its so hard to prognasticate something like 50 wins. our hope is winning the atlantic which is the easiest route iMHO--it wont be EASY but it is the easiest

totally agree with that above statement... I do think the Bucks will be awfull. They werent very good after losing Ford and his return is quesionable at best. While KVH is more productive then TT he's a lousy closer and that will hurt them when it comes to finishing games. I think the Bucks are clearly a step below us.

The Clippers are (talent wise) a step above us but simply cant play together. I think Kittles could really help them because while they have a ton of talent they dont know how to win games.

Grant Hill isnt playing. The Magic have an interesting mix... you use "rag-tag" with us... I am wondering what style of play the Magic will have. I see a lot bad shots from Francis and Mobley.

One thing on the Knicks: We dont have great size on defense; ie shotblockers, but we arent a small team by any means. With Sweetney, KT, TT, Baker, JYD, Nazr we will be a very good rebounding team on offense and defense. We have perimeter guys that can attack the basket and some inside guys that can finish.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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9/10/2004  2:09 PM
Posted by fishmike:
thats why its so hard to prognasticate something like 50 wins. our hope is winning the atlantic which is the easiest route iMHO--it wont be EASY but it is the easiest

totally agree with that above statement... I do think the Bucks will be awfull. They werent very good after losing Ford and his return is quesionable at best. While KVH is more productive then TT he's a lousy closer and that will hurt them when it comes to finishing games. I think the Bucks are clearly a step below us.

The Clippers are (talent wise) a step above us but simply cant play together. I think Kittles could really help them because while they have a ton of talent they dont know how to win games.

Grant Hill isnt playing. The Magic have an interesting mix... you use "rag-tag" with us... I am wondering what style of play the Magic will have. I see a lot bad shots from Francis and Mobley.

One thing on the Knicks: We dont have great size on defense; ie shotblockers, but we arent a small team by any means. With Sweetney, KT, TT, Baker, JYD, Nazr we will be a very good rebounding team on offense and defense. We have perimeter guys that can attack the basket and some inside guys that can finish.

Fish, I think you said in this in another post, but one of the most important things we started to develop last year was an identity - something the Clippers have never had. If we can continue to develop that identity (meaning: players know their role on the team and what style they need to play to win, most importantly the players know how to win together), it will lead to inflated win totals. I think the NYK will be fine on rebounding, it's opposition getting to the rim that worries me.
¿ △ ?
fishmike
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9/10/2004  2:29 PM
totally... its our biggest weakness and we play in a guard dominated conference. That being said I think we have a verty solid group as far as working the glass and attacking the rim.

Its a start.. I dont know how good we will be but its an identity. Isiah has improved the talent, but perhaps even more importantly he's put guys together with simliar styles.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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9/10/2004  2:33 PM
Of course there is an astreick makr around Grant Hill, but everything I have read off the Duke rival board[where he trains] is that he goes full court for more than an 1hr and has been doing it for 2 months now a few times a week. that leads me to beleive that i should atleat give him the benefit of the doubt, we also thought mcdyess big z etc.. would never comeback so who knows.

Here is the key with the Magic--they have Dwight Howard and no one else does--im very high on Sweetney but Howard dwarfes his potential. While cato is nothing special, hes a real sized C who can block shots and they have improved depth.


so if they do go to the court with Howard hill Cato Francis and mobly--on potential with their depth this would be a formidable team--but like the knicks and many other clubs--we have many question marks with injuries as well-h2O? who knows but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt we have no idea about our smallsih frontcourt or how the Gs will mesh.


i was just trying to get an idea where people thought we stacked up with other---so-called middle of the pack teams. that would put us around the 14th or 15 th best team
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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9/10/2004  3:16 PM
no doubt we are a middle of the pack team. I think the excitement is we arent looking towards another season of KVH, KT, Houston, McDyess and Eisley being core players.

If Sweetney beats out KT for the start at the 4 its very possible we wont have anyone in the starting line up older than 27. Even if Houston and KT do start Sweetney (21) and Crawford (24) will be core players.

At the end of next season we will have a #1 pick and we will have a multitude of trade friendly contracts. I think Isiah overpaid for Marbury, the TT/NAzr deal was lateral talent wise but a better fit in terms of personel and the Crawford deal cost us Frank and thats about it. My only point is he's consistantly brought in younger more athletic players and has also gotten the best player in the deal each time. The Moochie trade is the only flop but it was for Spoon so who cares.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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9/10/2004  4:02 PM
Laydogs last draft was AK47? Took him a few years to get there, and a few seasons to develope. Worth the wait?

Can you spell L-A-M-P-E?

Ok, we need not go there, and we all love Marbs so its not one or the other, and a few think we could have saved him, im sure Laydog would have. But Utah has some nice pieces now and lots of upside.
Some of us wished such a process in NY, but its NY, and we got a Cable station to feed, so we got a different process.

THe knicks will always be no. 1 in my heart, but as a basketball fan I apprciate how other teams do it and when the Knicks are eliminated, have a different team to also follow.

Its not that I am anti Isiah at all, its been interesting and he is doing a good job that is being asked of him, its just my preference would be to blow it up and build with potential superstars that we can draft. There is always the possibilty that never comes to fruition, but playing safe as our management does, also puts a ceiling on how great we can be. Its been that way since 1977, and it is not changing!

I think We are over the Magic, Suns, Cavs, clips and Bucks. But the fist three have some nice upside players that can take them for years.

we got Marbs in his prime, I'll enjoy it! And we have some nice pieces in Azira and Sweets to integrate. Not star material, but yah never know!
fishmike
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9/10/2004  4:09 PM
He's got slow feet but I liked Lampe as a prospect. I dont give Layden credit for him because he fell into his lap. This was a lottery projection that fell because of a contract problem. Unless you have promised someone (Vranes) you usually just take the best player on the board or anyone you think can make your team in the 2nd round. Layden did that for once.

Considering Sweetney had now idea the Knicks were going to draft him (Layden's reason was the Knicks had good luck w/ players from GTown) its obvious he was trying to trade the pick, but nobody bit. Sweetney then became the 6th PF on the roster.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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9/10/2004  10:43 PM
it's so hard to determine. if everything falls right, we could be better than i anticipate which i hope is the case. weve been bad for awhile now, so it may cloud my thinking. we are much younger+ more athletic now and we have a serious backcourt threesome if H2O is healthy enough to play 24-26 minutes. That alone will make it hard to defend this team. throw in TT Sweetney Nazr-some unexpected play from Ariza with Baker Hardaway and KT as the vet stabilizers--if things fall real nice than we could be a real decent team--with a legit chance for the first time in years to make some legit noise again in the playoffs. It's time to turn optomistic and lay down the pessimism until game 1 is over:>)
RIP Crushalot😞
trueknicksfan
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9/10/2004  11:02 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

it's so hard to determine. if everything falls right, we could be better than i anticipate which i hope is the case. weve been bad for awhile now, so it may cloud my thinking. we are much younger+ more athletic now and we have a serious backcourt threesome if H2O is healthy enough to play 24-26 minutes. That alone will make it hard to defend this team. throw in TT Sweetney Nazr-some unexpected play from Ariza with Baker Hardaway and KT as the vet stabilizers--if things fall real nice than we could be a real decent team--with a legit chance for the first time in years to make some legit noise again in the playoffs. It's time to turn optomistic and lay down the pessimism until game 1 is over:>)

It's about time some1 said anything like that im 100% with u!
Bizzy211
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9/11/2004  10:09 AM
Posted by trueknicksfan:
Posted by BRIGGS:

it's so hard to determine. if everything falls right, we could be better than i anticipate which i hope is the case. weve been bad for awhile now, so it may cloud my thinking. we are much younger+ more athletic now and we have a serious backcourt threesome if H2O is healthy enough to play 24-26 minutes. That alone will make it hard to defend this team. throw in TT Sweetney Nazr-some unexpected play from Ariza with Baker Hardaway and KT as the vet stabilizers--if things fall real nice than we could be a real decent team--with a legit chance for the first time in years to make some legit noise again in the playoffs. It's time to turn optomistic and lay down the pessimism until game 1 is over:>)

It's about time some1 said anything like that im 100% with u!

I think we should wait until atleast half the season is over.
Bizzy Shadyville, NY **soundcloud.com/Bizzy211**
Allanfan20
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9/11/2004  2:02 PM
I think Utah can be a top 4 team, if everything falls into place for them. AK47 could be an MVP candidate this year too.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
mintyfreshness33
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9/11/2004  2:31 PM
magics are gonna be good this year, they have just as good as a backcourt as anyone, Jameer nelson is the sleeper of the draft, hes gonna make the first 19 team regret not picking him. And if dwight is as good as they say he is, i can see magic top 6 in the east.
Marv
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9/12/2004  8:55 AM
Of the teams you mentioned, I see us as better than the Magic, Suns, Clips and Bucks. I think Cavs will be major surprise this year. The Boozer deal ws a major cluster **** but they recovered beautifully with picking up Gooden, Traylor and Vaerejo. Snow protects them from another McInnis injury and Jackson could be a star rookie.

I don't believe in the chemistry of Phoenix or Orlando - just a feeling. Btw, I saw Grant Hill at the Garden 2 years ago and it was one of the efficient displays of basketball ability I've ever seen. While clearly severly limited by the injury, he came up with 14 points and 15 rebounds while contributing something productive to virtually every single offensive and defensive play he was on the court for. A display of basketball intelligence and using skill to beat athleticism like I have never seen before. Where wouild this guy rank on the all-time annals of NBA players if he hadn't gotten hurt???

Just to weigh in on the comments re: the Marbury deal, I agree we gave up a lot but I think we did the exact right thing for this franchise. You start right there and put a stake in the ground and say '"This isn't happening anmymore." Lampe and Snyder may or may not become major players. Good luck to them both. I still don't think Vujanic is coming over. At any rate, for me that turned the direction of the franchise around. Without that move, I think the obvious answer to the question on this thread would be, "Are you kidding? We're going to get killed buy all those teams."
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