knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Too soon? We spent a long time arguing about how the Triangle and Phil were a terrible choice to begin a successful rebuild. Now the king of stupidity is admiting that it was a problem and claimed Phil was out of touch and did not relate to tadays players? Claimed that JH's problem was that he was like Phil, in that he was stuck in the past? (My Gripe from day one of the Phil/Triangle era) Yet he does not take any of the blame for being the guy that put antiquated Phil/Triangle in charge. This guy cannot lead or take responsibility. No respect for him. He should sell the team and move on to some crappy jazz club and call it a day. Yeah right. That will happen.

Where are the guys that argued the Triangle/Phil was the right plan to build a long term future? As their excuse was always "Wait and see". Well its now completely over and we have not heard from the Phil/Triangle supporters. Some of us saw how short sighted it was to trust a Prez/System that was "Stuck in the past" and out of touch with Todays NBA. Although Dolan did not take the blame he did finnaly admit it was the reason it did not work . Anyone else have the Bballs?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/james-dolan-reminding-knicks-remain-dysfunctional-article-1.3944169

I know this is going to sound like I'm defending Dolan but to be fair,

You have to look at how phil presented himself to an Owner who admitted to not knowing much about building a winning culture(brain wash). Phil Hired Fisher for 2 reasons 1)he could relate to today's player 2)he can mold a young coach into himself.

JH (we now realize) had the same thought process as phil, that's why he came out of the blue and nailed the job. They spent an entire day together and had a 6 hr diner discussing their IDEAS.

Mills has already interviewed 5 coaches in less than a week, and phil interviewed just 3 in almost a month. What Dolan is saying now is something that has clearly becoming super obvious.

It's easy to hire a person who talks a good game during the interviewing process but when he gets on the job your like WTF.

What make dolan STILL an Idiot (IMO) is that he promoted MILLs, a guy who was part of phils disaster, A guy who couldn't bring in a single all star(since he's been here) despite having major cap space, a guy who couldn't help phil facilitate better trades, A guy who signed JR smiths brother, A guy who has been every part of the losing culture from the DAY he started

All the stuff about Mills is true and yet I feel he did the right thing in hiring Perry. I think that move is the best thing Mills has done. This coaching search has the potential of being the next best thing. If they can continue to make smart decisions that's going to lead to success IMO. Let's see how this Coach search pans out and take it into the Draft and Free Agency this summer. I'm hoping for the best cuz this is a very pivotal summer.

That's your optimism, the only smart move they made was FIRING JH. There's hasn't been any success to say they are continuing.

Perry comes from Orlando where they never got the coaching thing right, Never got an All star to signed with them, and just poor to AVG draft selections. Now they are looking for a coach who thinks like them

Sure i'm optimistic based on those things why should I not be? Why should I give more credence to the stuff that went on in Orlando or another place than to what i've seen Perry doing here in NY? Now he's about to choose a coach, draft and hit Free Agency. There's a lot of reason for optimism at this Point IMO. Seems to me that your pessimism is unwarranted at this point.

Nalod wrote:In hindsight, and Kyrie wanted out quickly and Haywood pending free agency, what would have Boston really done?
I think Ainge would also doubt KP’s durability as well and value a trade accordingly?
Since we in hindsight fantasy, why not say we draft Mitchell as well?

I love your posts Nalod but your generalizations suck. They always piss me off. "Hindsight fantasy" is the Knicks drafting Mitchell. They didnt want him. Period. I presented a totally possible hypothetical situation. If the Celts were interested in Porzingis (they were) the only real currency they had was that pick. The Knicks werent trading for Bradley or Smart, or whoever else. The centerpiece was that pick.

Now draft wise if the Knicks picked 3, they still needed a PG if they draft a PG at 3 (Fox who was at the time graded light years ahead of Frank)they arent drafting Frank at 8. If they drafted one of the swingmen at 3 it is totally possible they end up with Frank at 8 still. In no world EVER with that management in place would they draft Mitchell or Smith. At that time they werent looking for that type of point guard.

"Hindsight fantasy" implies no thought was put into my post. Thats insulting.

CrushAlot wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:What annoys me is the "the only thing Phil did right was draft KP" that is declared incessantly in media and by fans. I was happy when Phil came on board but it didn't work out -- I'd put his stubborness and ego at the top of reasons why. But he did draft KP (and was dragged across the coals for it if you remember. He was killed for not signing Greg Monroe and Lamarcus Aldridge (who was never going to come here) but signed some decent FA's in Robin Lopez, KOQ, Courtney Lee. Obviously the Noah signing was bad -- I think that happens. He probably should have ditched Melo but what kind of s#!tstorm would have followed that? Frank remains to be seen but looks to be a good piece going forward. And to me the main thing he did right might be he never traded a #1 pick. Tell me that isn't a big deal. Think Bargiani trade.

Am I saying Phil was great? Hell no. But the level of hate for him is irrational. Relative to recent prior GMs, he was pretty okay.

I was really excited when Phil was hired. I remember how excited Clyde was and I thought this time it is going to be different. Also, his having autonomy was a first and I thought he would rebuild the Knicks. But he was really bad. He sh@t the bed in every aspect of his job as an executive. You would be hard pressed to find any executive that could turn what he took over into 80-166, make the environment more toxic, be really bad at trades and give out two of the worst contracts in professional sports. Yes he did not trade the 2018 pick. That was a blessing because the roster he created is so devoid of talent that that pick is very valuable. I don't know of any knick fan that started off not liking Phil or the hire. He earned the dislike that he left with.

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:What annoys me is the "the only thing Phil did right was draft KP" that is declared incessantly in media and by fans. I was happy when Phil came on board but it didn't work out -- I'd put his stubborness and ego at the top of reasons why. But he did draft KP (and was dragged across the coals for it if you remember. He was killed for not signing Greg Monroe and Lamarcus Aldridge (who was never going to come here) but signed some decent FA's in Robin Lopez, KOQ, Courtney Lee. Obviously the Noah signing was bad -- I think that happens. He probably should have ditched Melo but what kind of s#!tstorm would have followed that? Frank remains to be seen but looks to be a good piece going forward. And to me the main thing he did right might be he never traded a #1 pick. Tell me that isn't a big deal. Think Bargiani trade.

Am I saying Phil was great? Hell no. But the level of hate for him is irrational. Relative to recent prior GMs, he was pretty okay.

I was really excited when Phil was hired. I remember how excited Clyde was and I thought this time it is going to be different. Also, his having autonomy was a first and I thought he would rebuild the Knicks. But he was really bad. He sh@t the bed in every aspect of his job as an executive. You would be hard pressed to find any executive that could turn what he took over into 80-166, make the environment more toxic, be really bad at trades and give out two of the worst contracts in professional sports. Yes he did not trade the 2018 pick. That was a blessing because the roster he created is so devoid of talent that that pick is very valuable. I don't know of any knick fan that started off not liking Phil or the hire. He earned the dislike that he left with.

+1
Its really not that hard to understand.

Phil was an amazing hire. He knew what the team needed to do and had a vision for the team. He gave the Knicks a star player home grown and he got a two way gem in Ntlikina. Phil needed the draft and unfortunately for Phil his tenure was marred by past dealing.

Phil made mistakes I won’t deny them but the mistakes made Worth it. They had purpose behind them of creating a young core which we currently had. If not for the bungling of this current regime. We should have at least seen a young core develop which basically again got tampered with. If thing were done right you would have seen a starting lineup of: KP, Kuz, Willie, Dotson and Ntlikina going forward. Would it be successful I doubt it but the whole purpose of this was development and the proper youth movement.

The Knicks biggest problem is that they are constantly pushing for playoffs it gets in the way of true success. Which is basically having a homegrown core of high talented players then adding vet leadership. That’s my two cents.

I liked Phil's drafts and the young players he brought in.

However...

He literally lost every trade. Was wildly wrong on guys like Melo, Noah, Rose and did a terrible job building any kind of culture starting with mismanaging his coaches. No idea how you can call that an amazing hire.

I can it what I like and you can call it what you like and leave it at that.

smackeddog wrote:Triangle could be back, baby!

Oh god. Is this gonna be done EVERY time someone mentions the triangle? Did you even hear what he said? He said "...there are good solid basketball fundamentals every coach can learn from..." The principles of this offense are almost the basis for what the league is now! It is not an ISO league anymore! My head is going to explode based on the fact so few people dont understand that the principles are THE BASIS FOR TODAY'S NBA! It has just been modified through thebuse of analytics to include alot more 3's by coaches much more modern and flexible than Jackson.

Rant over. It just dawned on me you may be being sarcastic. Please be being sarcastic.

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:What annoys me is the "the only thing Phil did right was draft KP" that is declared incessantly in media and by fans. I was happy when Phil came on board but it didn't work out -- I'd put his stubborness and ego at the top of reasons why. But he did draft KP (and was dragged across the coals for it if you remember. He was killed for not signing Greg Monroe and Lamarcus Aldridge (who was never going to come here) but signed some decent FA's in Robin Lopez, KOQ, Courtney Lee. Obviously the Noah signing was bad -- I think that happens. He probably should have ditched Melo but what kind of s#!tstorm would have followed that? Frank remains to be seen but looks to be a good piece going forward. And to me the main thing he did right might be he never traded a #1 pick. Tell me that isn't a big deal. Think Bargiani trade.

Am I saying Phil was great? Hell no. But the level of hate for him is irrational. Relative to recent prior GMs, he was pretty okay.

I was really excited when Phil was hired. I remember how excited Clyde was and I thought this time it is going to be different. Also, his having autonomy was a first and I thought he would rebuild the Knicks. But he was really bad. He sh@t the bed in every aspect of his job as an executive. You would be hard pressed to find any executive that could turn what he took over into 80-166, make the environment more toxic, be really bad at trades and give out two of the worst contracts in professional sports. Yes he did not trade the 2018 pick. That was a blessing because the roster he created is so devoid of talent that that pick is very valuable. I don't know of any knick fan that started off not liking Phil or the hire. He earned the dislike that he left with.

+1
Its really not that hard to understand.

Phil was an amazing hire. He knew what the team needed to do and had a vision for the team. He gave the Knicks a star player home grown and he got a two way gem in Ntlikina. Phil needed the draft and unfortunately for Phil his tenure was marred by past dealing.

Phil made mistakes I won’t deny them but the mistakes made Worth it. They had purpose behind them of creating a young core which we currently had. If not for the bungling of this current regime. We should have at least seen a young core develop which basically again got tampered with. If thing were done right you would have seen a starting lineup of: KP, Kuz, Willie, Dotson and Ntlikina going forward. Would it be successful I doubt it but the whole purpose of this was development and the proper youth movement.

The Knicks biggest problem is that they are constantly pushing for playoffs it gets in the way of true success. Which is basically having a homegrown core of high talented players then adding vet leadership. That’s my two cents.

Giving him credit for his drafts is fine. But he thought he had built a playoff roster the two times the Knicks got lottery picks during his tenure. Phil's dealings were pretty awful all on their own. Contracts given out and trades were really bad.

He did have a playoff roster, but in came the triangle. That's like testing a race car in rush hr traffic.

Some of you use the notion that we have little to no talent, but that is such a small part of the problem.

what about players changing roles every other game, what about your inconsistent minutes, what about half the team wanting PLAYOFFS and the other half just happy to have an NBA JOB.

He had a playoff roster? Really?

KnickDanger wrote:What annoys me is the "the only thing Phil did right was draft KP" that is declared incessantly in media and by fans. I was happy when Phil came on board but it didn't work out -- I'd put his stubborness and ego at the top of reasons why. But he did draft KP (and was dragged across the coals for it if you remember. He was killed for not signing Greg Monroe and Lamarcus Aldridge (who was never going to come here) but signed some decent FA's in Robin Lopez, KOQ, Courtney Lee. Obviously the Noah signing was bad -- I think that happens. He probably should have ditched Melo but what kind of s#!tstorm would have followed that? Frank remains to be seen but looks to be a good piece going forward. And to me the main thing he did right might be he never traded a #1 pick. Tell me that isn't a big deal. Think Bargiani trade.

Am I saying Phil was great? Hell no. But the level of hate for him is irrational. Relative to recent prior GMs, he was pretty okay.

I think if we had a draft pick when Melo became a FA he would not have been resigned.

nykshaknbake wrote:Phil was an understandable hire, given his success as a coach. Terrible GM. Porzibgis was a nice pick, but honestly he was generally ranked where he went. You, the UK reader could have made that pick, and many here would have. It was also the #4 pick, not exactly a bad spot to be picking. He msde terribke coaching decisions, pissed off the unicorn, generally made bad signings. Slept when he was supposed to be scouting. Not trading draft picks is great. Guess what its what every GM outside of a few contenders always does. He thought he had a playoff team each year and ended up the most losing coach in NYK history, by accident! So roster construction was nit anything he did welk. At least Philly was trying to lose...

I have never bought that logic.

Frank the Tank was a senior coming off a great tourney and a safe pick and Winslow was there and reportedly Boston wanted him so badly they were willing to offer multiple picks for him to move up; two guys projected to move into a team and contribute right away. Especially with Melo on board, those were 2 picks that would have fit his timeline.

KP, Hezonja, Mudiay were all overseas "mystery" picks, and if you didn't have the proper scouting as an organization, you were going to make a mistake.

OK4 was supposed to be the next Tim Duncan (light) and a can't miss talent. Not sure Russell was that same way but he must of shown a lot during interviews. Teams blew it with those picks.

KP was high risk/high reward... but no brainer at #4? As much as Russell or OK4 at #2 or #3?

KP has panned out, and lots of credit to the player and the people around him.