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Good chart on 2019 cap space and being able to sign max free agent
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martin
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4/12/2018  3:48 PM
Moving Lee is paramount!

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ccinflushing
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4/12/2018  4:18 PM
KP's cap hold also goes from $17Mn to $27Mn if he signs an extension this year .. assuming we stay at slot 9 in 2018, the hold reduces to $3.6Mn from $6.3Mn, probably need to include Dotson's $1.4Mn cap hold as well .. but yeah if you're going this route of stretching Noah, then you need to trade Lee for expiring contracts ..
reub
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4/12/2018  4:22 PM
Kawhi just quit on his team. Why would we want him?
ccinflushing
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4/12/2018  4:24 PM
They're just using him as an example ..
Jmpasq
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4/12/2018  8:16 PM
Trading Lee has to be a priority. However when you look at this team after signing a max FA you can see that there is no chance in hell we are competing with Boston or Philly
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BigDaddyG
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4/12/2018  8:38 PM
Jmpasq wrote:Trading Lee has to be a priority. However when you look at this team after signing a max FA you can see that there is no chance in hell we are competing with Boston or Philly

Yeah, this process is going to take longer than a couple of years. Even if were able to sign a Max guy, we'd still have to fill out the rest of the roster. The THJ deal will continue to haunt us unless we can unload Lee for expirings.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Jmpasq
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4/12/2018  9:15 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Trading Lee has to be a priority. However when you look at this team after signing a max FA you can see that there is no chance in hell we are competing with Boston or Philly

Yeah, this process is going to take longer than a couple of years. Even if were able to sign a Max guy, we'd still have to fill out the rest of the roster. The THJ deal will continue to haunt us unless we can unload Lee for expirings.

Yep the Hardaway deal was stupid. I think Phil was right this season, should of bought out Carmelo and tanked the season. We probably would be picking top 5.

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Knixkik
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4/13/2018  8:35 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/13/2018  8:36 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Trading Lee has to be a priority. However when you look at this team after signing a max FA you can see that there is no chance in hell we are competing with Boston or Philly

Yeah, this process is going to take longer than a couple of years. Even if were able to sign a Max guy, we'd still have to fill out the rest of the roster. The THJ deal will continue to haunt us unless we can unload Lee for expirings.

Yep the Hardaway deal was stupid. I think Phil was right this season, should of bought out Carmelo and tanked the season. We probably would be picking top 5.

Hardaway deal is fine. He's a younger player who can score. In the NBA we need that. This isn't a Noah contract. Hardaway is a useful starter on a market value contract. His numbers will look much better playing next to a healthy KP, as we saw earlier this year with the small sample size of them both playing together.

wargames
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4/13/2018  9:15 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/13/2018  9:38 AM
I think we get that space if we stretch Lee as well...... Considering he is a legit good player, the knicks would be wise to trade him for either a crappy expiring or a worse player on a similar contract (with at least a 2nd or two attached) to make the stretching of a contract make better sense.

Basically we can still sign up to 17 mil in cap space this year, and if KP accepts his QA they can then waive everyone and have 33 mil in cap space, Then afterward they can negotiate a Max contract for KP after using that 33 mil on a Max contract.

Knixkik
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4/13/2018  9:43 AM
wargames wrote:I think we get that space if we stretch Lee as well...... Considering he is a legit good player, the knicks would be wise to trade him for either a crappy expiring or a worse player on a similar contract (with at least a 2nd or two attached) to make the stretching of a contract make better sense.

Basically we can still sign up to 17 mil in cap space this year, and if KP accepts his QA they can then waive everyone and have 33 mil in cap space, Then afterward they can negotiate a Max contract for KP after using that 33 mil on a Max contract.

He will be easy to move via trade. As long as we aren't expecting any real value back for him, just a strict salary dump for a comparable contract that expires next season, he should be moveable. Examples would be to Minn for Aldrich's contract or to Denver for Faried's contract.

After that, we will only have Porzingis (who i still expect them to extend this summer even though it will cost more), Hardaway, Ntilikina, and 2018 pick long-term. Noah will be stretched (maybe wait until after next season to save more money) and Thomas only has 1 mil guaranteed after next season. So between Noah and Thomas, we should have something along the lines of 6 mil in dead money on the books. Should give us plenty of flexibility in summer 2019.

wargames
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4/13/2018  9:50 AM
Knixkik wrote:
wargames wrote:I think we get that space if we stretch Lee as well...... Considering he is a legit good player, the knicks would be wise to trade him for either a crappy expiring or a worse player on a similar contract (with at least a 2nd or two attached) to make the stretching of a contract make better sense.

Basically we can still sign up to 17 mil in cap space this year, and if KP accepts his QA they can then waive everyone and have 33 mil in cap space, Then afterward they can negotiate a Max contract for KP after using that 33 mil on a Max contract.

He will be easy to move via trade. As long as we aren't expecting any real value back for him, just a strict salary dump for a comparable contract that expires next season, he should be moveable. Examples would be to Minn for Aldrich's contract or to Denver for Faried's contract.

After that, we will only have Porzingis (who i still expect them to extend this summer even though it will cost more), Hardaway, Ntilikina, and 2018 pick long-term. Noah will be stretched (maybe wait until after next season to save more money) and Thomas only has 1 mil guaranteed after next season. So between Noah and Thomas, we should have something along the lines of 6 mil in dead money on the books. Should give us plenty of flexibility in summer 2019.

I actually think they pause on the extension for KP. He's injured so you need to see how he is on his return, and waiting can let them build a better team around him and he'll still get his money. They could add a 17 mil player like Randle, Parker, or Gordon this year (of keep KOQ and add another piece)

Knixkik
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4/13/2018  10:07 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/13/2018  10:09 AM
wargames wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
wargames wrote:I think we get that space if we stretch Lee as well...... Considering he is a legit good player, the knicks would be wise to trade him for either a crappy expiring or a worse player on a similar contract (with at least a 2nd or two attached) to make the stretching of a contract make better sense.

Basically we can still sign up to 17 mil in cap space this year, and if KP accepts his QA they can then waive everyone and have 33 mil in cap space, Then afterward they can negotiate a Max contract for KP after using that 33 mil on a Max contract.

He will be easy to move via trade. As long as we aren't expecting any real value back for him, just a strict salary dump for a comparable contract that expires next season, he should be moveable. Examples would be to Minn for Aldrich's contract or to Denver for Faried's contract.

After that, we will only have Porzingis (who i still expect them to extend this summer even though it will cost more), Hardaway, Ntilikina, and 2018 pick long-term. Noah will be stretched (maybe wait until after next season to save more money) and Thomas only has 1 mil guaranteed after next season. So between Noah and Thomas, we should have something along the lines of 6 mil in dead money on the books. Should give us plenty of flexibility in summer 2019.

I actually think they pause on the extension for KP. He's injured so you need to see how he is on his return, and waiting can let them build a better team around him and he'll still get his money. They could add a 17 mil player like Randle, Parker, or Gordon this year (of keep KOQ and add another piece)

If they want to add a player this summer, then there is no point in waiting on an extension. My thought is, we need to build a culture here, and KP is the franchise player, so he should be locked up early so there is no uncertainty there. We can add injury stipulations into the contract for some protection, but ultimately if we want KP to be loyal to the Knicks, we need to do the same. If Kanter opts out, i definitely want to look at the players you mentioned, assuming we don't draft a big man.

Nalod
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4/13/2018  10:16 AM
You give KP the choice to wait to help the cap, or the extension now. Assuming medically it checks out. Before the injury we would have done it.
This is what you do with 22 year old franchise talent. You give him the keys and let him drive the decision.
Either way you make him part of the decision process.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
knicks1248
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4/13/2018  10:33 AM
Jmpasq wrote:Trading Lee has to be a priority. However when you look at this team after signing a max FA you can see that there is no chance in hell we are competing with Boston or Philly

all it takes is one good trade, one good FA signing, and a good coach. Essentially what boston did

ES
Knixkik
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4/13/2018  11:24 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/13/2018  11:25 AM
Nalod wrote:You give KP the choice to wait to help the cap, or the extension now. Assuming medically it checks out. Before the injury we would have done it.
This is what you do with 22 year old franchise talent. You give him the keys and let him drive the decision.
Either way you make him part of the decision process.

Making him part of the process is absolutely the key. He should feel like he is a partner in building the foundation here. Injury or not, he is the most important piece moving forward. He's the franchise player.

BigDaddyG
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4/13/2018  1:09 PM
Knixkik wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Trading Lee has to be a priority. However when you look at this team after signing a max FA you can see that there is no chance in hell we are competing with Boston or Philly

Yeah, this process is going to take longer than a couple of years. Even if were able to sign a Max guy, we'd still have to fill out the rest of the roster. The THJ deal will continue to haunt us unless we can unload Lee for expirings.

Yep the Hardaway deal was stupid. I think Phil was right this season, should of bought out Carmelo and tanked the season. We probably would be picking top 5.

Hardaway deal is fine. He's a younger player who can score. In the NBA we need that. This isn't a Noah contract. Hardaway is a useful starter on a market value contract. His numbers will look much better playing next to a healthy KP, as we saw earlier this year with the small sample size of them both playing together.

It's not so much the value of the contract as it is the timing. THJ is a fourth or fifth option and we still need a #2, a small forward etc. We still suck with or without him? We probability should have held off on that signing until our cap is in a healthier condition.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Knixkik
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4/13/2018  1:13 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/13/2018  1:14 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Trading Lee has to be a priority. However when you look at this team after signing a max FA you can see that there is no chance in hell we are competing with Boston or Philly

Yeah, this process is going to take longer than a couple of years. Even if were able to sign a Max guy, we'd still have to fill out the rest of the roster. The THJ deal will continue to haunt us unless we can unload Lee for expirings.

Yep the Hardaway deal was stupid. I think Phil was right this season, should of bought out Carmelo and tanked the season. We probably would be picking top 5.

Hardaway deal is fine. He's a younger player who can score. In the NBA we need that. This isn't a Noah contract. Hardaway is a useful starter on a market value contract. His numbers will look much better playing next to a healthy KP, as we saw earlier this year with the small sample size of them both playing together.

It's not so much the value of the contract as it is the timing. THJ is a fourth or fifth option and we still need a #2, a small forward etc. We still suck with or without him? We probability should have held off on that signing until our cap is in a healthier condition.

In a perfect world sure, that would have been ideal. But adding a player who averaged 15 ppg on a playoff team and only 25 years old doesn't really come up very often, so i think you have to grab a good young player when the opportunity presents itself. It won't prevent us from clearing max cap space next year, if we choose to.

BigDaddyG
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4/13/2018  1:22 PM
Knixkik wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Trading Lee has to be a priority. However when you look at this team after signing a max FA you can see that there is no chance in hell we are competing with Boston or Philly

Yeah, this process is going to take longer than a couple of years. Even if were able to sign a Max guy, we'd still have to fill out the rest of the roster. The THJ deal will continue to haunt us unless we can unload Lee for expirings.

Yep the Hardaway deal was stupid. I think Phil was right this season, should of bought out Carmelo and tanked the season. We probably would be picking top 5.

Hardaway deal is fine. He's a younger player who can score. In the NBA we need that. This isn't a Noah contract. Hardaway is a useful starter on a market value contract. His numbers will look much better playing next to a healthy KP, as we saw earlier this year with the small sample size of them both playing together.

It's not so much the value of the contract as it is the timing. THJ is a fourth or fifth option and we still need a #2, a small forward etc. We still suck with or without him? We probability should have held off on that signing until our cap is in a healthier condition.

In a perfect world sure, that would have been ideal. But adding a player who averaged 15 ppg on a playoff team and only 25 years old doesn't really come up very often, so i think you have to grab a good young player when the opportunity presents itself. It won't prevent us from clearing max cap space next year, if we choose to.

Disagree. You have to build you foundation first. THJ would probably be sixth or 7th man on most of these contending teams. We should have used the space on a short-term deal that gave us flexibility down the line. There's no use bemoaning the fact that he's here, but it will be a sore point everytime 2019 comes up.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Gudris
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4/13/2018  1:56 PM
I am pretty sure KP will take less than MAX, KP want to win more than money, even without Max deal he will the richest man in Latvia :)
franco12
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4/13/2018  2:14 PM
Gudris wrote:I am pretty sure KP will take less than MAX, KP want to win more than money, even without Max deal he will the richest man in Latvia :)

I'm sure whatever team signs him (not us) will second that, and point out how great he could look in San Antonio, GS, Boston- wherever not NYC with our 18 year history of being the biggest loser in the NBA.

Good chart on 2019 cap space and being able to sign max free agent

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