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Philly is above Boston
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BRIGGS
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4/12/2018  12:54 PM
Philly is so good that I think they have a real good chance to be in the finals. Great starters great bench great D great offense

The guy had a plan stuck to it was not content on sticking with rookies who did not conform or play well and lookm at them now. I give credit to Colangelo to both GMS have done great great jobs. The first guy did so well--I dont think it can be done again--no one will fall for trading all of those picks.

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newyorknewyork
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4/12/2018  1:32 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Philly is so good that I think they have a real good chance to be in the finals. Great starters great bench great D great offense

The guy had a plan stuck to it was not content on sticking with rookies who did not conform or play well and lookm at them now. I give credit to Colangelo to both GMS have done great great jobs. The first guy did so well--I dont think it can be done again--no one will fall for trading all of those picks.

Yea now that the results are showing. Now the process and patience needed is good.

Who had belief when the results weren't immediate??

Uptown
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4/12/2018  1:55 PM
Lots of luck and leeway was involved....They purposely tanked for years...He drafted Ok4, Nerlens, Carter-Williams with hopes that they would be the franchise players...He turned them over, and lucked up but landing a few number #1's and the fact that Embiid dropped due to injury....You think Perry would have the leeway to do what that guy did over the years? He would be fired by year 3!!!
reub
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4/12/2018  2:06 PM
Uptown wrote:Lots of luck and leeway was involved....They purposely tanked for years...He drafted Ok4, Nerlens, Carter-Williams with hopes that they would be the franchise players...He turned them over, and lucked up but landing a few number #1's and the fact that Embiid dropped due to injury....You think Perry would have the leeway to do what that guy did over the years? He would be fired by year 3!!!

I don't give Philly much credit, except they only wanted to lose for years. They had very high picks and only hit on about half of them. You and me could have done that too.
Nalod
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4/12/2018  2:09 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Philly is so good that I think they have a real good chance to be in the finals. Great starters great bench great D great offense

The guy had a plan stuck to it was not content on sticking with rookies who did not conform or play well and lookm at them now. I give credit to Colangelo to both GMS have done great great jobs. The first guy did so well--I dont think it can be done again--no one will fall for trading all of those picks.

Yea now that the results are showing. Now the process and patience needed is good.

Who had belief when the results weren't immediate??

Nalod. I do not have the link but the owner is a hedgefund manager and the approach was very different.
I said Philly would win before knicks. Philly went so deep they had to move it up a bit because owners were crying about them as a visiting team.
Hinkie knew what he was doing. Now, I will not say I knew it would work for sure but when you deviate from any other process your bound to have an extreme outcome.
That was evident all along. I often mentioned "Changing the decision making process" and What Hinkie was doing was extreme. He failed with Oka4 and Norlens but you create enough opportunities your bound to hit a statistical probability called "Luck".
And to pay JJ reddick 23mm for one year was the right addition. Seemed absurd at at the time!

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
newyorknewyork
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4/12/2018  6:10 PM
Nalod wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Philly is so good that I think they have a real good chance to be in the finals. Great starters great bench great D great offense

The guy had a plan stuck to it was not content on sticking with rookies who did not conform or play well and lookm at them now. I give credit to Colangelo to both GMS have done great great jobs. The first guy did so well--I dont think it can be done again--no one will fall for trading all of those picks.

Yea now that the results are showing. Now the process and patience needed is good.

Who had belief when the results weren't immediate??

Nalod. I do not have the link but the owner is a hedgefund manager and the approach was very different.
I said Philly would win before knicks. Philly went so deep they had to move it up a bit because owners were crying about them as a visiting team.
Hinkie knew what he was doing. Now, I will not say I knew it would work for sure but when you deviate from any other process your bound to have an extreme outcome.
That was evident all along. I often mentioned "Changing the decision making process" and What Hinkie was doing was extreme. He failed with Oka4 and Norlens but you create enough opportunities your bound to hit a statistical probability called "Luck".
And to pay JJ reddick 23mm for one year was the right addition. Seemed absurd at at the time!

I didn't have a problem with how he was collecting picks. My main issue was how they drafted the same position 3 yrs in a row I believe. And how they didn't attempt to build any type of complementary roster that could grow together.

But building up enough assets to be able to play with house money down the road and set the franchise up for 10+ yrs I supported the ideal. They should have more picks coming. And they should trade these picks for multiple future picks with the possibility of landing another top 5 pick down the road.

CrushAlot
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4/12/2018  6:17 PM
Uptown wrote:Lots of luck and leeway was involved....They purposely tanked for years...He drafted Ok4, Nerlens, Carter-Williams with hopes that they would be the franchise players...He turned them over, and lucked up but landing a few number #1's and the fact that Embiid dropped due to injury....You think Perry would have the leeway to do what that guy did over the years? He would be fired by year 3!!!
This. I am really interested in seeing who Perry hires to be his coach. It will be his biggest move so far and will probably be4 the biggest factor in determining if he is successful in NY.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
Vmart
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4/12/2018  7:25 PM
That is what Phil was doing. But the dumb bastards stepped in. You have to lose to be great in the NBA and have a little luck on the way. But it starts with a plan and it has to be stuck to. The Knicks are notorious for switching plans and its always a step back. Phil gave the Knicks a base in KP and Ntlikina. Some of his draft picks have potential to be high level contributors. Willie was one of them, Dotson and Kornet look like players that can contribute. The big problem with the Knicks is they treat players according to where they are drafted. If a player is a second rounder they won’t get the opportunity to succeed. They always fall back to where the player was drafted which is absolutely dumb. JH totally f’ed the pooch with his ridiculous approach to have vets getting minutes.
reub
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4/12/2018  7:43 PM
Vmart wrote:That is what Phil was doing. But the dumb bastards stepped in. You have to lose to be great in the NBA and have a little luck on the way. But it starts with a plan and it has to be stuck to. The Knicks are notorious for switching plans and its always a step back. Phil gave the Knicks a base in KP and Ntlikina. Some of his draft picks have potential to be high level contributors. Willie was one of them, Dotson and Kornet look like players that can contribute. The big problem with the Knicks is they treat players according to where they are drafted. If a player is a second rounder they won’t get the opportunity to succeed. They always fall back to where the player was drafted which is absolutely dumb. JH totally f’ed the pooch with his ridiculous approach to have vets getting minutes.

This!
Paris907
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4/12/2018  7:54 PM
I’ve said repeatedly that the Knicks need a 5, a big man who can matchup against KAT and Embiid, Ayton, Anthony Davis etc. Bamba is a true 5 and has shown some touch. He won’t be around at 9 but Carter maybe and I would grab him as the Knicks know KP Off of surgery ain’t gonna bang with those guys. Kanter still suffers from Matador D and is intimidated by those guys. The old Noah would have been fine. Wanna win the East in 3 years, find your 5 asap.
Young will have a tougher time defensively than Trey Burke and his stats are an atroscity.
Jmpasq
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4/13/2018  6:30 AM
Vmart wrote:That is what Phil was doing. But the dumb bastards stepped in. You have to lose to be great in the NBA and have a little luck on the way. But it starts with a plan and it has to be stuck to. The Knicks are notorious for switching plans and its always a step back. Phil gave the Knicks a base in KP and Ntlikina. Some of his draft picks have potential to be high level contributors. Willie was one of them, Dotson and Kornet look like players that can contribute. The big problem with the Knicks is they treat players according to where they are drafted. If a player is a second rounder they won’t get the opportunity to succeed. They always fall back to where the player was drafted which is absolutely dumb. JH totally f’ed the pooch with his ridiculous approach to have vets getting minutes.

Yep Phil was tanking this year. I think the team would be in a lot better spot right now had he stayed.

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Uptown
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4/13/2018  10:04 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
Vmart wrote:That is what Phil was doing. But the dumb bastards stepped in. You have to lose to be great in the NBA and have a little luck on the way. But it starts with a plan and it has to be stuck to. The Knicks are notorious for switching plans and its always a step back. Phil gave the Knicks a base in KP and Ntlikina. Some of his draft picks have potential to be high level contributors. Willie was one of them, Dotson and Kornet look like players that can contribute. The big problem with the Knicks is they treat players according to where they are drafted. If a player is a second rounder they won’t get the opportunity to succeed. They always fall back to where the player was drafted which is absolutely dumb. JH totally f’ed the pooch with his ridiculous approach to have vets getting minutes.

Yep Phil was tanking this year. I think the team would be in a lot better spot right now had he stayed.

Yeah, I see what you mean...Melo and his no-trade clause( thanks phil) would still be here and the media circus to go with it...or maybe he would have traded Melo to the Rockets for Ryan Andersons cap killing contract! And by some miracle maybe phil would have convinced Noah to give back all the guaranteed money he gave to him...Oh, and lets not forget all of the freeagents who would have been lining up to play in phils dated triangle system...phil changed his mind every January...dude was clueless and fed into the circus atmosphere..Good riddance

knicks1248
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4/13/2018  10:29 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
Vmart wrote:That is what Phil was doing. But the dumb bastards stepped in. You have to lose to be great in the NBA and have a little luck on the way. But it starts with a plan and it has to be stuck to. The Knicks are notorious for switching plans and its always a step back. Phil gave the Knicks a base in KP and Ntlikina. Some of his draft picks have potential to be high level contributors. Willie was one of them, Dotson and Kornet look like players that can contribute. The big problem with the Knicks is they treat players according to where they are drafted. If a player is a second rounder they won’t get the opportunity to succeed. They always fall back to where the player was drafted which is absolutely dumb. JH totally f’ed the pooch with his ridiculous approach to have vets getting minutes.

Yep Phil was tanking this year. I think the team would be in a lot better spot right now had he stayed.

Team would have been capped out for yrs to come with Ryan Anderson and NOAH on the Books. Phil was never going to make it pushing that Triangle on coaches and players. He had the right plan, but the wrong way of going about it.

Philly looks good now, but they are still saddle with their young core being very injury prone. Boston losing Haywood, and now Kyrie, championship window is close for business

In sports your only a major injury away from being sub par. As good as GSW are, they are barely .500(17-14) without curry,and look very beatable.

There's a good bit of luck when it comes to winning rings

ES
newyorknewyork
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4/13/2018  10:34 AM
Uptown wrote:Lots of luck and leeway was involved....They purposely tanked for years...He drafted Ok4, Nerlens, Carter-Williams with hopes that they would be the franchise players...He turned them over, and lucked up but landing a few number #1's and the fact that Embiid dropped due to injury....You think Perry would have the leeway to do what that guy did over the years? He would be fired by year 3!!!

Hinkie put himself in position for the good and bad. If luck landed him Embild and Simmons. Then he was unlucky with Ok4, Noel, MCW. Which could have been KP, CJ Mcollum, Greak Freak, Shrodeder, Gobert. They had a shot at Jokic in the 2nd as well but took Mcdaniels & Grant.

But because he gave himself so many opportunities to get lucky he banked on if he could hit one or 2 studs it would override the misses. And to his credit that's exactly what happen.

Hinkie got fired himself just like any GM would. But the next regime gets all those assets. As an owner its a win win. As a fan base if your willing to deal with all that losing to be in the position they are in now. Hinkie becomes the fall guy, yet the owner gets to reap all the benefits of the ground work he laid for the next 5-15yrs. And the fan base gets to enjoy a contender for the next 5-15yrs.

newyorknewyork
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4/13/2018  10:41 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
Vmart wrote:That is what Phil was doing. But the dumb bastards stepped in. You have to lose to be great in the NBA and have a little luck on the way. But it starts with a plan and it has to be stuck to. The Knicks are notorious for switching plans and its always a step back. Phil gave the Knicks a base in KP and Ntlikina. Some of his draft picks have potential to be high level contributors. Willie was one of them, Dotson and Kornet look like players that can contribute. The big problem with the Knicks is they treat players according to where they are drafted. If a player is a second rounder they won’t get the opportunity to succeed. They always fall back to where the player was drafted which is absolutely dumb. JH totally f’ed the pooch with his ridiculous approach to have vets getting minutes.

Yep Phil was tanking this year. I think the team would be in a lot better spot right now had he stayed.

I can't say this is what Phil was doing. He wanted to try to win with Melo(at least make a playoff team) while building up a young core on the back end. His problem is trying to do both cost him both. The talent he was able to get to try to win now wasn't good enough. And he wasn't committed to stockpiling assets like he could have and should have done with Tyson. As well as the cap space we had. He could have ate a contract or 2 for draft picks. Kings gave up Stauskus and basically a top 10 lotto pick to Philly to eat 2 mid level contracts with 2 yrs left.

We could have ate Carrolls contract this past off season and landed a draft pick and an prospect from Toronto. Carroll would have slide right in our SF spot as well.

GustavBahler
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4/13/2018  10:48 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Uptown wrote:Lots of luck and leeway was involved....They purposely tanked for years...He drafted Ok4, Nerlens, Carter-Williams with hopes that they would be the franchise players...He turned them over, and lucked up but landing a few number #1's and the fact that Embiid dropped due to injury....You think Perry would have the leeway to do what that guy did over the years? He would be fired by year 3!!!

Hinkie put himself in position for the good and bad. If luck landed him Embild and Simmons. Then he was unlucky with Ok4, Noel, MCW. Which could have been KP, CJ Mcollum, Greak Freak, Shrodeder, Gobert. They had a shot at Jokic in the 2nd as well but took Mcdaniels & Grant.

But because he gave himself so many opportunities to get lucky he banked on if he could hit one or 2 studs it would override the misses. And to his credit that's exactly what happen.

Hinkie got fired himself just like any GM would. But the next regime gets all those assets. As an owner its a win win. As a fan base if your willing to deal with all that losing to be in the position they are in now. Hinkie becomes the fall guy, yet the owner gets to reap all the benefits of the ground work he laid for the next 5-15yrs. And the fan base gets to enjoy a contender for the next 5-15yrs.

I dont know how they did it (even after Hinkie left) but they've managed to draft one seriously injured top pick after another. Players now must be wondering if getting drafted by Philly is a date with a season ending injury.

Thats the ingredient baked into this "process" that has allowed them (until this season) not to receive the bump, high picks usually gives the team that drafted them. Thats how they kept landing all those high picks. How do you replicate that, and do you even want to?

newyorknewyork
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4/13/2018  1:12 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Uptown wrote:Lots of luck and leeway was involved....They purposely tanked for years...He drafted Ok4, Nerlens, Carter-Williams with hopes that they would be the franchise players...He turned them over, and lucked up but landing a few number #1's and the fact that Embiid dropped due to injury....You think Perry would have the leeway to do what that guy did over the years? He would be fired by year 3!!!

Hinkie put himself in position for the good and bad. If luck landed him Embild and Simmons. Then he was unlucky with Ok4, Noel, MCW. Which could have been KP, CJ Mcollum, Greak Freak, Shrodeder, Gobert. They had a shot at Jokic in the 2nd as well but took Mcdaniels & Grant.

But because he gave himself so many opportunities to get lucky he banked on if he could hit one or 2 studs it would override the misses. And to his credit that's exactly what happen.

Hinkie got fired himself just like any GM would. But the next regime gets all those assets. As an owner its a win win. As a fan base if your willing to deal with all that losing to be in the position they are in now. Hinkie becomes the fall guy, yet the owner gets to reap all the benefits of the ground work he laid for the next 5-15yrs. And the fan base gets to enjoy a contender for the next 5-15yrs.

I dont know how they did it (even after Hinkie left) but they've managed to draft one seriously injured top pick after another. Players now must be wondering if getting drafted by Philly is a date with a season ending injury.

Thats the ingredient baked into this "process" that has allowed them (until this season) not to receive the bump, high picks usually gives the team that drafted them. Thats how they kept landing all those high picks. How do you replicate that, and do you even want to?

When Embild missed his rookie yr. They drafted OK4 with higher pick they landed because of it.Who ended up being a wasted pick. So even though they got the bump they really got nothing to show for it. The next yr Embild got Injured again and Ok4 wasn't a good bball player. So they ended up sucking again and landed the #1 pick which was Simmons.

Simmons missed his rookie yr and they landed a top 3 pick which they traded up to one with some of the million assets they had stored. (Jokes on them though as they could have traded down and taken Mitchell 😁).

You could say that Simmons was the result of the injuries. But Embild developed into a stronger player over time and they didn't have much talent around him to be much better for him to carry them to more wins at that stage of his career.


Noel & MCW haven't proven to be difference makers on the level of winning much more games.

awe1028
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4/13/2018  1:29 PM
reub wrote:
Uptown wrote:Lots of luck and leeway was involved....They purposely tanked for years...He drafted Ok4, Nerlens, Carter-Williams with hopes that they would be the franchise players...He turned them over, and lucked up but landing a few number #1's and the fact that Embiid dropped due to injury....You think Perry would have the leeway to do what that guy did over the years? He would be fired by year 3!!!

I don't give Philly much credit, except they only wanted to lose for years. They had very high picks and only hit on about half of them. You and me could have done that too.

This is exactly why you should give Philadelphia credit. They devised a SIMPLE process that is essentially foolproof (hence your point that you and me could have done that too). That's a good thing. This is what the Knicks should have done and are trying to do now but are not doing properly.

We all know the examples of the Knicks not tanking properly: The Knicks missed out on Steph Curry and ended up with the immortal Jordan Hill because they won some meaningless games that dropped them down
This year the Knicks could be in contention for the 6th pick but because of those 2 meaningless wins against Miami and Cleveland they are stuck with the 9th pick

Unlike the Knicks when Philadelphia tanked they did it right and now they are the best young team in the NBA. I am envious of Philadelphia because had the knicks tanked right it could be us going to the playoffs with the best team young team in the NBA

We can only hope that despite the fact the Knicks screwed up the tank this year we get lucky and Mikal Briges is still available with the 9th pick

Nalod
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4/13/2018  2:57 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Uptown wrote:Lots of luck and leeway was involved....They purposely tanked for years...He drafted Ok4, Nerlens, Carter-Williams with hopes that they would be the franchise players...He turned them over, and lucked up but landing a few number #1's and the fact that Embiid dropped due to injury....You think Perry would have the leeway to do what that guy did over the years? He would be fired by year 3!!!

Hinkie put himself in position for the good and bad. If luck landed him Embild and Simmons. Then he was unlucky with Ok4, Noel, MCW. Which could have been KP, CJ Mcollum, Greak Freak, Shrodeder, Gobert. They had a shot at Jokic in the 2nd as well but took Mcdaniels & Grant.

But because he gave himself so many opportunities to get lucky he banked on if he could hit one or 2 studs it would override the misses. And to his credit that's exactly what happen.

Hinkie got fired himself just like any GM would. But the next regime gets all those assets. As an owner its a win win. As a fan base if your willing to deal with all that losing to be in the position they are in now. Hinkie becomes the fall guy, yet the owner gets to reap all the benefits of the ground work he laid for the next 5-15yrs. And the fan base gets to enjoy a contender for the next 5-15yrs.

I dont know how they did it (even after Hinkie left) but they've managed to draft one seriously injured top pick after another. Players now must be wondering if getting drafted by Philly is a date with a season ending injury.

Thats the ingredient baked into this "process" that has allowed them (until this season) not to receive the bump, high picks usually gives the team that drafted them. Thats how they kept landing all those high picks. How do you replicate that, and do you even want to?

When Embild missed his rookie yr. They drafted OK4 with higher pick they landed because of it.Who ended up being a wasted pick. So even though they got the bump they really got nothing to show for it. The next yr Embild got Injured again and Ok4 wasn't a good bball player. So they ended up sucking again and landed the #1 pick which was Simmons.

Simmons missed his rookie yr and they landed a top 3 pick which they traded up to one with some of the million assets they had stored. (Jokes on them though as they could have traded down and taken Mitchell 😁).

You could say that Simmons was the result of the injuries. But Embild developed into a stronger player over time and they didn't have much talent around him to be much better for him to carry them to more wins at that stage of his career.


Noel & MCW haven't proven to be difference makers on the level of winning much more games.

Good take. The process ensures infusion of talent when you suck. So simple. Embiid dropped because of his back.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
GustavBahler
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4/13/2018  3:43 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Uptown wrote:Lots of luck and leeway was involved....They purposely tanked for years...He drafted Ok4, Nerlens, Carter-Williams with hopes that they would be the franchise players...He turned them over, and lucked up but landing a few number #1's and the fact that Embiid dropped due to injury....You think Perry would have the leeway to do what that guy did over the years? He would be fired by year 3!!!

Hinkie put himself in position for the good and bad. If luck landed him Embild and Simmons. Then he was unlucky with Ok4, Noel, MCW. Which could have been KP, CJ Mcollum, Greak Freak, Shrodeder, Gobert. They had a shot at Jokic in the 2nd as well but took Mcdaniels & Grant.

But because he gave himself so many opportunities to get lucky he banked on if he could hit one or 2 studs it would override the misses. And to his credit that's exactly what happen.

Hinkie got fired himself just like any GM would. But the next regime gets all those assets. As an owner its a win win. As a fan base if your willing to deal with all that losing to be in the position they are in now. Hinkie becomes the fall guy, yet the owner gets to reap all the benefits of the ground work he laid for the next 5-15yrs. And the fan base gets to enjoy a contender for the next 5-15yrs.

I dont know how they did it (even after Hinkie left) but they've managed to draft one seriously injured top pick after another. Players now must be wondering if getting drafted by Philly is a date with a season ending injury.

Thats the ingredient baked into this "process" that has allowed them (until this season) not to receive the bump, high picks usually gives the team that drafted them. Thats how they kept landing all those high picks. How do you replicate that, and do you even want to?

When Embild missed his rookie yr. They drafted OK4 with higher pick they landed because of it.Who ended up being a wasted pick. So even though they got the bump they really got nothing to show for it. The next yr Embild got Injured again and Ok4 wasn't a good bball player. So they ended up sucking again and landed the #1 pick which was Simmons.

Simmons missed his rookie yr and they landed a top 3 pick which they traded up to one with some of the million assets they had stored. (Jokes on them though as they could have traded down and taken Mitchell 😁).

You could say that Simmons was the result of the injuries. But Embild developed into a stronger player over time and they didn't have much talent around him to be much better for him to carry them to more wins at that stage of his career.


Noel & MCW haven't proven to be difference makers on the level of winning much more games.

Too many injuries, and missed games by top picks, to say that they werent instrumental in acquiring better picks. If they arent playing, they arent helping. I dont see any way Philly drafts nearly as well without benefiting from the remote odds that something like this would happen in consecutive years.

Philly is above Boston

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