Last year was a total cirle jerk the way Phil managed him, the triangle, etc etc...
This year what happened? When the Knicks were 18-18 I sure do remember him getting a lot of praise..
- inserting Jack over sessions and benching Beasley were two moves that worked well among many others.

Rose and Melo? Are these guys even NBA players at this point?

Hardaway is an outspoken supporter of Jeff which is interesting as Jeff yells at Tim a whole lot.

I dont expect guys to be perfect... not even sure how you quantify that. Larry Brown was perfect until he came here.

Jeff is fine. I like him. Dont love him. I would like to see him with this same crop of guards next year. I think with a healthy Burke/Frank/Ron you see a much improved team. Everyone loves continuity, until it actually means letting guys grow together. That means taking lumps. Like what Frank has done this year. Its a process. Jeff is fine.

fishmike wrote:hard to agree with this...
Lee, Hardaway, KP and Kanter all had career years.
Frank the Knicks highest ranked prospect got 20+ minutes a night in 70+ games.

Last year was a total cirle jerk the way Phil managed him, the triangle, etc etc...
This year what happened? When the Knicks were 18-18 I sure do remember him getting a lot of praise..
- inserting Jack over sessions and benching Beasley were two moves that worked well among many others.

Rose and Melo? Are these guys even NBA players at this point?

Hardaway is an outspoken supporter of Jeff which is interesting as Jeff yells at Tim a whole lot.

I dont expect guys to be perfect... not even sure how you quantify that. Larry Brown was perfect until he came here.

Jeff is fine. I like him. Dont love him. I would like to see him with this same crop of guards next year. I think with a healthy Burke/Frank/Ron you see a much improved team. Everyone loves continuity, until it actually means letting guys grow together. That means taking lumps. Like what Frank has done this year. Its a process. Jeff is fine.

really, in what form, they were all career bench players (except kp) who were force to start and where all overwhelmed/over match.

Kp became the #1 option as oppose to #3 which is what he was prior to this season.
Yr-1)72 games 22 double doubles
yr-2)66 games 16 DD
yr-3)48 games 5 DD

Overall they all played more minute, had more touches, but in the clutch at the end of games fatigue took over.

JH is a solid coach, just not for this type of situation.

I cant believe you mention rose and melo as if we are doing so much better without them, and in fact we are much worse.

Lee is not having a career yr judge for yourself
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3445/courtney-lee

the others shot a worse % this yr than last, but scored more points.

back to back 50+ loss seasons under JH, you think that's a good culture to develop in?

franco12 wrote:I'm kinda troubled by #6 - his handling of Noah. Noah might have been out of shape, he might have blown some assignments, but unless the FO came to him and said push him away, the fact that we are rebuilding and are likely stuck with him for 2 more years, kinda a stupid move.

#4 & 5 require looking at data, and if true, kinda are damning.

I'm on the fence with #3, because Jack did have us playing halfway decent ball when we had all our guys healthy. I would have liked to have gone to Burke sooner- no idea if the FO told Jeff to play the young guys or not and if Jeff would have been happy to play Jack down the stretch. At the start of the season, we really didn't have any better options.

If I am firing Jeff, it is for a clean start and because I want Perry to have his guy. I don't know that I have seen Jeff get effort from the team. I watch the Nets and I think I see effort there, and I like that they seem to have a 'modern' offense with lots of 3 ptrs being taken.

Nets are the 26th worst team at taking 3s. The Nets take the 2nd most 3s in the league. That strikes you as smart?

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:hard to agree with this...
Lee, Hardaway, KP and Kanter all had career years.
Frank the Knicks highest ranked prospect got 20+ minutes a night in 70+ games.

Last year was a total cirle jerk the way Phil managed him, the triangle, etc etc...
This year what happened? When the Knicks were 18-18 I sure do remember him getting a lot of praise..
- inserting Jack over sessions and benching Beasley were two moves that worked well among many others.

Rose and Melo? Are these guys even NBA players at this point?

Hardaway is an outspoken supporter of Jeff which is interesting as Jeff yells at Tim a whole lot.

I dont expect guys to be perfect... not even sure how you quantify that. Larry Brown was perfect until he came here.

Jeff is fine. I like him. Dont love him. I would like to see him with this same crop of guards next year. I think with a healthy Burke/Frank/Ron you see a much improved team. Everyone loves continuity, until it actually means letting guys grow together. That means taking lumps. Like what Frank has done this year. Its a process. Jeff is fine.

really, in what form, they were all career bench players (except kp) who were force to start and where all overwhelmed/over match.

Kp became the #1 option as oppose to #3 which is what he was prior to this season.
Yr-1)72 games 22 double doubles
yr-2)66 games 16 DD
yr-3)48 games 5 DD

Overall they all played more minute, had more touches, but in the clutch at the end of games fatigue took over.

JH is a solid coach, just not for this type of situation.

I cant believe you mention rose and melo as if we are doing so much better without them, and in fact we are much worse.

Lee is not having a career yr judge for yourself
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3445/courtney-lee

the others shot a worse % this yr than last, but scored more points.

back to back 50+ loss seasons under JH, you think that's a good culture to develop in?

I know it is. Thats how sports works. Clearly you have never been in a team situation before so you have no clue. Have you played organized sports? Even amateur weekend stuff? Anything? You talk like someone who has zero experience at any level. You offer no solutions, usually because when you do they are stupid ones like bring back Rose or trade draft picks for Kemba Walker

you are part of the small fan base that has fully embraced losing, that's why you walking around with "I LOVE STEVE MILLS PROCESS" T shirt,

And yes I played high school ball and helped develop a league for a hand full of brokerage firms on wall St (when I worked for GE) in the 90's and and early 2k, and I have coached.

Funny how Bledsoe and Rose(your whipping boys) are headed to the PO while we are enduring our 4th straight 50 loss season, something you have no problem with..

In your opinion Mills deserves exec of the yr.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:hard to agree with this...
Lee, Hardaway, KP and Kanter all had career years.
Frank the Knicks highest ranked prospect got 20+ minutes a night in 70+ games.

Last year was a total cirle jerk the way Phil managed him, the triangle, etc etc...
This year what happened? When the Knicks were 18-18 I sure do remember him getting a lot of praise..
- inserting Jack over sessions and benching Beasley were two moves that worked well among many others.

Rose and Melo? Are these guys even NBA players at this point?

Hardaway is an outspoken supporter of Jeff which is interesting as Jeff yells at Tim a whole lot.

I dont expect guys to be perfect... not even sure how you quantify that. Larry Brown was perfect until he came here.

Jeff is fine. I like him. Dont love him. I would like to see him with this same crop of guards next year. I think with a healthy Burke/Frank/Ron you see a much improved team. Everyone loves continuity, until it actually means letting guys grow together. That means taking lumps. Like what Frank has done this year. Its a process. Jeff is fine.

really, in what form, they were all career bench players (except kp) who were force to start and where all overwhelmed/over match.

Kp became the #1 option as oppose to #3 which is what he was prior to this season.
Yr-1)72 games 22 double doubles
yr-2)66 games 16 DD
yr-3)48 games 5 DD

Overall they all played more minute, had more touches, but in the clutch at the end of games fatigue took over.

JH is a solid coach, just not for this type of situation.

I cant believe you mention rose and melo as if we are doing so much better without them, and in fact we are much worse.

Lee is not having a career yr judge for yourself
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3445/courtney-lee

the others shot a worse % this yr than last, but scored more points.

back to back 50+ loss seasons under JH, you think that's a good culture to develop in?

I know it is. Thats how sports works. Clearly you have never been in a team situation before so you have no clue. Have you played organized sports? Even amateur weekend stuff? Anything? You talk like someone who has zero experience at any level. You offer no solutions, usually because when you do they are stupid ones like bring back Rose or trade draft picks for Kemba Walker

you are part of the small fan base that has fully embraced losing, that's why you walking around with "I LOVE STEVE MILLS PROCESS" T shirt,

And yes I played high school ball and helped develop a league for a hand full of brokerage firms on wall St (when I worked for GE) in the 90's and and early 2k, and I have coached.

Funny how Bledsoe and Rose(your whipping boys) are headed to the PO while we are enduring our 4th straight 50 loss season, something you have no problem with..

In your opinion Mills deserves exec of the yr.

You are part of the small fan base who has fully embraced retardation. Rather than actually think about what the team needs and how best to proceed you mumble and dont make any sense.

So you played high school ball. When some of your teammates didnt practice very hard did you blame the coach? When you missed shots was it because of the losing environment?

Bledsoe is in the playoffs? How did he get there? Good play? Or was he traded to Lebron's team?

Your problem is dont seem capable of grasping how NBA teams are built or where talent come from. You talk about things like "losing culture" because you have nothing to add to the conversation... just grumbling and mumbling.

The Knicks are in a phase of gathering talent. They are building a young athletic team. This is going to take time. Not like the time it takes for you to remember your password. Like a couple years time. During that time there will be losing. That is what happens when the other teams in the league are more talented. There is no way to avoid that.

Some people understand that is part of the process. You are the type of fan who love Isiah. He smiles and promises this is going to be the player who turns it all around and you say YES! CAN I GET AN AMEN! Then that player sucks, and while team are drafting young studs who will help their franchises sustain winning for many years, you dont understand why the KNicks (who have no picks) cant be more like those teams. You are the biggest emracer of losing here.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:hard to agree with this...
Lee, Hardaway, KP and Kanter all had career years.
Frank the Knicks highest ranked prospect got 20+ minutes a night in 70+ games.

Last year was a total cirle jerk the way Phil managed him, the triangle, etc etc...
This year what happened? When the Knicks were 18-18 I sure do remember him getting a lot of praise..
- inserting Jack over sessions and benching Beasley were two moves that worked well among many others.

Rose and Melo? Are these guys even NBA players at this point?

Hardaway is an outspoken supporter of Jeff which is interesting as Jeff yells at Tim a whole lot.

I dont expect guys to be perfect... not even sure how you quantify that. Larry Brown was perfect until he came here.

Jeff is fine. I like him. Dont love him. I would like to see him with this same crop of guards next year. I think with a healthy Burke/Frank/Ron you see a much improved team. Everyone loves continuity, until it actually means letting guys grow together. That means taking lumps. Like what Frank has done this year. Its a process. Jeff is fine.

really, in what form, they were all career bench players (except kp) who were force to start and where all overwhelmed/over match.

Kp became the #1 option as oppose to #3 which is what he was prior to this season.
Yr-1)72 games 22 double doubles
yr-2)66 games 16 DD
yr-3)48 games 5 DD

Overall they all played more minute, had more touches, but in the clutch at the end of games fatigue took over.

JH is a solid coach, just not for this type of situation.

I cant believe you mention rose and melo as if we are doing so much better without them, and in fact we are much worse.

Lee is not having a career yr judge for yourself
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3445/courtney-lee

the others shot a worse % this yr than last, but scored more points.

back to back 50+ loss seasons under JH, you think that's a good culture to develop in?

I know it is. Thats how sports works. Clearly you have never been in a team situation before so you have no clue. Have you played organized sports? Even amateur weekend stuff? Anything? You talk like someone who has zero experience at any level. You offer no solutions, usually because when you do they are stupid ones like bring back Rose or trade draft picks for Kemba Walker

you are part of the small fan base that has fully embraced losing, that's why you walking around with "I LOVE STEVE MILLS PROCESS" T shirt,

And yes I played high school ball and helped develop a league for a hand full of brokerage firms on wall St (when I worked for GE) in the 90's and and early 2k, and I have coached.

Funny how Bledsoe and Rose(your whipping boys) are headed to the PO while we are enduring our 4th straight 50 loss season, something you have no problem with..

In your opinion Mills deserves exec of the yr.

the only t shirt I walk around with is the one that says how much I love your mom.

You are part of the small fan base who has fully embraced retardation. Rather than actually think about what the team needs and how best to proceed you mumble and dont make any sense.

So you played high school ball. When some of your teammates didnt practice very hard did you blame the coach? When you missed shots was it because of the losing environment?

Bledsoe is in the playoffs? How did he get there? Good play? Or was he traded to Lebron's team?

Your problem is dont seem capable of grasping how NBA teams are built or where talent come from. You talk about things like "losing culture" because you have nothing to add to the conversation... just grumbling and mumbling.

The Knicks are in a phase of gathering talent. They are building a young athletic team. This is going to take time. Not like the time it takes for you to remember your password. Like a couple years time. During that time there will be losing. That is what happens when the other teams in the league are more talented. There is no way to avoid that.

Some people understand that is part of the process. You are the type of fan who love Isiah. He smiles and promises this is going to be the player who turns it all around and you say YES! CAN I GET AN AMEN! Then that player sucks, and while team are drafting young studs who will help their franchises sustain winning for many years, you dont understand why the KNicks (who have no picks) cant be more like those teams. You are the biggest emracer of losing here.

No accountable, that's you, I told you when every coach was on his way out months prior , and you came with same stupid logic about, is the coach the one missing the shot's.

You say the same stupid logic about it takes time with phils triangle, only to see that didn't last.

I'm sure the kings and suns have fans like you that keep saying the same sht draft after draft, it takes time, give it time.

NEW FLASH- THE KNICK ARENT DRAFTING YOUNG STUDS like lillard, Kyrie, Towns, Mitchell, wall, or who ever.

I bet you the twolves had thought the had a process when they drafted Love, Rubio kg, ect.

The avg NBA career is 5 yrs..(google that sht) It's not about the fckng draft alone, it's about trades and FA, how many draft picks your going to go through before you figure that out.

Yeah we draft players and trade them or waive them, and mills is continuing the process

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:hard to agree with this...
Lee, Hardaway, KP and Kanter all had career years.
Frank the Knicks highest ranked prospect got 20+ minutes a night in 70+ games.

Last year was a total cirle jerk the way Phil managed him, the triangle, etc etc...
This year what happened? When the Knicks were 18-18 I sure do remember him getting a lot of praise..
- inserting Jack over sessions and benching Beasley were two moves that worked well among many others.

Rose and Melo? Are these guys even NBA players at this point?

Hardaway is an outspoken supporter of Jeff which is interesting as Jeff yells at Tim a whole lot.

I dont expect guys to be perfect... not even sure how you quantify that. Larry Brown was perfect until he came here.

Jeff is fine. I like him. Dont love him. I would like to see him with this same crop of guards next year. I think with a healthy Burke/Frank/Ron you see a much improved team. Everyone loves continuity, until it actually means letting guys grow together. That means taking lumps. Like what Frank has done this year. Its a process. Jeff is fine.

really, in what form, they were all career bench players (except kp) who were force to start and where all overwhelmed/over match.

Kp became the #1 option as oppose to #3 which is what he was prior to this season.
Yr-1)72 games 22 double doubles
yr-2)66 games 16 DD
yr-3)48 games 5 DD

Overall they all played more minute, had more touches, but in the clutch at the end of games fatigue took over.

JH is a solid coach, just not for this type of situation.

I cant believe you mention rose and melo as if we are doing so much better without them, and in fact we are much worse.

Lee is not having a career yr judge for yourself
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3445/courtney-lee

the others shot a worse % this yr than last, but scored more points.

back to back 50+ loss seasons under JH, you think that's a good culture to develop in?

I know it is. Thats how sports works. Clearly you have never been in a team situation before so you have no clue. Have you played organized sports? Even amateur weekend stuff? Anything? You talk like someone who has zero experience at any level. You offer no solutions, usually because when you do they are stupid ones like bring back Rose or trade draft picks for Kemba Walker

you are part of the small fan base that has fully embraced losing, that's why you walking around with "I LOVE STEVE MILLS PROCESS" T shirt,

And yes I played high school ball and helped develop a league for a hand full of brokerage firms on wall St (when I worked for GE) in the 90's and and early 2k, and I have coached.

Funny how Bledsoe and Rose(your whipping boys) are headed to the PO while we are enduring our 4th straight 50 loss season, something you have no problem with..

In your opinion Mills deserves exec of the yr.

the only t shirt I walk around with is the one that says how much I love your mom.

You are part of the small fan base who has fully embraced retardation. Rather than actually think about what the team needs and how best to proceed you mumble and dont make any sense.

So you played high school ball. When some of your teammates didnt practice very hard did you blame the coach? When you missed shots was it because of the losing environment?

Bledsoe is in the playoffs? How did he get there? Good play? Or was he traded to Lebron's team?

Your problem is dont seem capable of grasping how NBA teams are built or where talent come from. You talk about things like "losing culture" because you have nothing to add to the conversation... just grumbling and mumbling.

The Knicks are in a phase of gathering talent. They are building a young athletic team. This is going to take time. Not like the time it takes for you to remember your password. Like a couple years time. During that time there will be losing. That is what happens when the other teams in the league are more talented. There is no way to avoid that.

Some people understand that is part of the process. You are the type of fan who love Isiah. He smiles and promises this is going to be the player who turns it all around and you say YES! CAN I GET AN AMEN! Then that player sucks, and while team are drafting young studs who will help their franchises sustain winning for many years, you dont understand why the KNicks (who have no picks) cant be more like those teams. You are the biggest emracer of losing here.

No accountable, that's you, I told you when every coach was on his way out months prior , and you came with same stupid logic about, is the coach the one missing the shot's.

You say the same stupid logic about it takes time with phils triangle, only to see that didn't last.

I'm sure the kings and suns have fans like you that keep saying the same sht draft after draft, it takes time, give it time.

NEW FLASH- THE KNICK ARENT DRAFTING YOUNG STUDS like lillard, Kyrie, Towns, Mitchell, wall, or who ever.

I bet you the twolves had thought the had a process when they drafted Love, Rubio kg, ect.

The avg NBA career is 5 yrs..(google that sht) It's not about the fckng draft alone, it's about trades and FA, how many draft picks your going to go through before you figure that out.

Yeah we draft players and trade them or waive them, and mills is continuing the process

Where does accountability come in? For what? Players have gotten better, had career years... they arent good enough. When we were healthy they were .500 which considering was pretty good.

I'm sure the kings and suns have fans like you that keep saying the same sht draft after draft, it takes time, give it time.

You would have traded Steph Curry after his rookie contract because he couldnt stay healthy and was just part of the losing culture.
You would have thought the worst trade in NBA history was good because KG and Pierce were bringing their "winning culture" from Boston
You would have traded your future for Kemba Walker and DeAndre Jordan for a couple first round exits and think making the playoffs was actually great.

I understand winning a title is tough. I also understand that when a team has no foundation that sustainable winning will take time to build. Luck can strike. You can draft a generational player. Even those teams still had an extended period of losing to acquire talent with the Spurs being the lone exception. ALL OF THEM.

You just choose to ignore that. Like its pretend. Its not.

knicks1248 wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Overall, i like Jeff. I hate that Dotson did not get more time but I understand. Playing Jack went too long as well.

Jeff has good credentials. He is very competitive and with Sloan as his mentor, there is no doubt he understands the game.

The team has a good offense. They were better this year with spacing and open looks. They cannot get more in transition because they don't have those types of players. It is something that needs to be fixed. Also the D needs improvement - again need those types of players.

I am not against him staying. What coach available now, is a no-brainer over Jeff? IMO, no one. They all have their warts.

Does a coach have to have a household name to be considered, just like JVG, there's tons of assistants who just have gotten an opportunity.