Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:A year removed from the Triangle and all that, the Knicks are in the same boat.
They had a nice run when KP was playing like a MVP the first few weeks, but when KP's body tired, the team was winning 3 in 10 games.

We continue to draft in a spot where we neither will be getting franchise level talent, or being close enough to the playoffs where one good move can put us in.

I really wish we had gone trust the process for this one year. Although the way Kristaps was playing early in the year, would have been hard to do. We did make some moves that made little sense for the longterm such as use Kanter, Jack as starters. Veterans that will get you more wins. If we surrounded Kristaps with young guys and G-Leaguers we may be drafting in the top 4 right now. The talent in the top 4 is much richer. Argh.

2013: Giannis and Gobert
2014: Jokic
2015: Booker
2016: Brogdon was ROTY
2017: Mitchell

Most of the best player's in each draft were drafted outside the top 10. Happens every year. We just need to find that guy at 9. So it's niave to say we are in a spot where we wouldn't get a franchise player, when in fact, the best player from each draft has been available at 9 or later. Look at the top 4 in previous drafts, just as many busts as stars. Talent evaluation matters more than draft position.

what he's getting at is the trust factor, we have never ever been able to snag the right pick(since mills had input) if it isn't an obvious one on the board like KP.

While the triangle wasn't the only issue, the fact that coaching staff was all over the place with the system, no one knew wtf they were doing, everyday it was something different, you heard that from every player not just kp, it was a ball of confusion.

We still have the same coaching staff and obviously the same results

nyknickzingis wrote:A year removed from the Triangle and all that, the Knicks are in the same boat.
They had a nice run when KP was playing like a MVP the first few weeks, but when KP's body tired, the team was winning 3 in 10 games.

We continue to draft in a spot where we neither will be getting franchise level talent, or being close enough to the playoffs where one good move can put us in.

I really wish we had gone trust the process for this one year. Although the way Kristaps was playing early in the year, would have been hard to do. We did make some moves that made little sense for the longterm such as use Kanter, Jack as starters. Veterans that will get you more wins. If we surrounded Kristaps with young guys and G-Leaguers we may be drafting in the top 4 right now. The talent in the top 4 is much richer. Argh.

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:A year removed from the Triangle and all that, the Knicks are in the same boat.
They had a nice run when KP was playing like a MVP the first few weeks, but when KP's body tired, the team was winning 3 in 10 games.

We continue to draft in a spot where we neither will be getting franchise level talent, or being close enough to the playoffs where one good move can put us in.

I really wish we had gone trust the process for this one year. Although the way Kristaps was playing early in the year, would have been hard to do. We did make some moves that made little sense for the longterm such as use Kanter, Jack as starters. Veterans that will get you more wins. If we surrounded Kristaps with young guys and G-Leaguers we may be drafting in the top 4 right now. The talent in the top 4 is much richer. Argh.

I don't think the management and the coaching staff realized how much of a project Frank was. Jack was brought in last minute because the Knicks desperately needed a point guard. Kanter was a part of the Melo deal and outplayed Willy and KOQ. There wasn't a clear trust the process path when this management team came in. They had to clean things up with the Melo deal and fill a hole in the roster that wasn't filled in at the draft. The Noah deal also made things messy and caused Kuz to be waived. However, aside from Jack, they stuck to their 25 and under plan.

Beasley isn’t 25 and younger. Neither was Sessions. Age has to equate to talent just adding young players doesn’t always equate to successful players. Once Kanter came to the Knicks he was going to start because the Knicks management had to feel they got something from the Melo deal. Ntlikina calling card is defense and offensively he still has that deer in headlights look. This is in Knicks coaching staff. Their developmental priorities are all over the place.

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:A year removed from the Triangle and all that, the Knicks are in the same boat.
They had a nice run when KP was playing like a MVP the first few weeks, but when KP's body tired, the team was winning 3 in 10 games.

We continue to draft in a spot where we neither will be getting franchise level talent, or being close enough to the playoffs where one good move can put us in.

I really wish we had gone trust the process for this one year. Although the way Kristaps was playing early in the year, would have been hard to do. We did make some moves that made little sense for the longterm such as use Kanter, Jack as starters. Veterans that will get you more wins. If we surrounded Kristaps with young guys and G-Leaguers we may be drafting in the top 4 right now. The talent in the top 4 is much richer. Argh.

I don't think the management and the coaching staff realized how much of a project Frank was. Jack was brought in last minute because the Knicks desperately needed a point guard. Kanter was a part of the Melo deal and outplayed Willy and KOQ. There wasn't a clear trust the process path when this management team came in. They had to clean things up with the Melo deal and fill a hole in the roster that wasn't filled in at the draft. The Noah deal also made things messy and caused Kuz to be waived. However, aside from Jack, they stuck to their 25 and under plan.

Beasley isn’t 25 and younger. Neither was Sessions. Age has to equate to talent just adding young players doesn’t always equate to successful players. Once Kanter came to the Knicks he was going to start because the Knicks management had to feel they got something from the Melo deal. Ntlikina calling card is defense and offensively he still has that deer in headlights look. This is in Knicks coaching staff. Their developmental priorities are all over the place.

I forgot about Bease but Sessions was before Perry. Again, there wasn't a clear trust the path process for the new management team. The ntc, Noah's deal, what the Knicks got in the draft etc. put Perry in a position where he had to react to his roster instead of being proactive.

I’m not a Perry fan and losing a second rounder to get a GM ridiculous. Who does that but the Knicks. He is part of the hole that he too created.

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:A year removed from the Triangle and all that, the Knicks are in the same boat.
They had a nice run when KP was playing like a MVP the first few weeks, but when KP's body tired, the team was winning 3 in 10 games.

We continue to draft in a spot where we neither will be getting franchise level talent, or being close enough to the playoffs where one good move can put us in.

I really wish we had gone trust the process for this one year. Although the way Kristaps was playing early in the year, would have been hard to do. We did make some moves that made little sense for the longterm such as use Kanter, Jack as starters. Veterans that will get you more wins. If we surrounded Kristaps with young guys and G-Leaguers we may be drafting in the top 4 right now. The talent in the top 4 is much richer. Argh.

2013: Giannis and Gobert
2014: Jokic
2015: Booker
2016: Brogdon was ROTY
2017: Mitchell

Most of the best player's in each draft were drafted outside the top 10. Happens every year. We just need to find that guy at 9. So it's niave to say we are in a spot where we wouldn't get a franchise player, when in fact, the best player from each draft has been available at 9 or later. Look at the top 4 in previous drafts, just as many busts as stars. Talent evaluation matters more than draft position.

I like how you have some examples of draft success after top four picks. There is always hope. But for everyone of those that you mentioned there are the Sweetney, Jordan Hill type players. The chances of getting a good player is higher when drafting high. Everyone say I’m down on the Knicks and they are right. To me this has been one of the worst years in franchise history. They got neither the draft right or development right. The Knicks should be top three in draft position meaningless vet lead wins which is now going to haunt the fans barring Lady Luck saving our butts. Guys I didn’t see the development that some see. This year was a golden opportunity to develop players and lose a lot of games in the name of development.

I hope the optimists are right and the Knicks are going the right way. I sincerely wish that.

If we tank correctly....There will be pessimistic threads discussing why the head coach was fired....How we have a new GM now, trying to create his rebuilding strategy. Basically if you tank in NY, the media and especially fans will be on Dolans case to fire everybody and start over. This build / rebuild cycle forces more changes at the top, which creates an environment of more instability.

If we don't tank correctly.....There will be pessimistic threads about that, on how we should've lost every game. How that one game we won caused us a top pick. Blah....Blah...Blah

Aren't you guys tired of going back and forth....circle after circle, just to be in the same spot. We are our own worse enemy. The media starts it, and we feed on it.

Basically it doesn't matter which direction we take on this rebuild, somebody is going to have something to complain about. Fisher was hated on because we won some meaningless games. Guess what that got us....KP. So b4 the draft, majority of knicks fans created several negative sulking and depressing threads about this being the worse year. Every year was the worse year if you read all the threads.

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:A year removed from the Triangle and all that, the Knicks are in the same boat.
They had a nice run when KP was playing like a MVP the first few weeks, but when KP's body tired, the team was winning 3 in 10 games.

We continue to draft in a spot where we neither will be getting franchise level talent, or being close enough to the playoffs where one good move can put us in.

I really wish we had gone trust the process for this one year. Although the way Kristaps was playing early in the year, would have been hard to do. We did make some moves that made little sense for the longterm such as use Kanter, Jack as starters. Veterans that will get you more wins. If we surrounded Kristaps with young guys and G-Leaguers we may be drafting in the top 4 right now. The talent in the top 4 is much richer. Argh.

I don't think the management and the coaching staff realized how much of a project Frank was. Jack was brought in last minute because the Knicks desperately needed a point guard. Kanter was a part of the Melo deal and outplayed Willy and KOQ. There wasn't a clear trust the process path when this management team came in. They had to clean things up with the Melo deal and fill a hole in the roster that wasn't filled in at the draft. The Noah deal also made things messy and caused Kuz to be waived. However, aside from Jack, they stuck to their 25 and under plan.

Beasley isn’t 25 and younger. Neither was Sessions. Age has to equate to talent just adding young players doesn’t always equate to successful players. Once Kanter came to the Knicks he was going to start because the Knicks management had to feel they got something from the Melo deal. Ntlikina calling card is defense and offensively he still has that deer in headlights look. This is in Knicks coaching staff. Their developmental priorities are all over the place.

I forgot about Bease but Sessions was before Perry. Again, there wasn't a clear trust the path process for the new management team. The ntc, Noah's deal, what the Knicks got in the draft etc. put Perry in a position where he had to react to his roster instead of being proactive.

I’m not a Perry fan and losing a second rounder to get a GM ridiculous. Who does that but the Knicks. He is part of the hole that he too created.

What hole did Perry create?

The hole he created is getting McDermott instead of Terrance Ferguson. Then complicated further by adding Mudiay. Didn’t make a decision on firing JH ASAP to implement his guy wasted a year. That second rounder is huge that it cost to get him which I thought was crazy. Dishing out draft pick for someone who doesn’t even play. Right back to the old ways where draft picks don’t mean anything. Quick trigger to trade Willie a player on a cheap contract who if given an opportunity might of fetched a lower first rounder. For what Kanter and O’Quin if given a contract will amass 24-25 million for a center position in today’s NBA that isn’t smart investment. Unless they bring defense with scoring ability and rebounding might be fair value but neither are dynamic enough to warrant that kind of money. He could have played a better angle for draft positioning but he should have created and communicated a better agenda to JH that player development is important, play the vets less. He didn’t make any moves to obtain possible first rounder for Lee. I’ll don’t see Perry being successful here. He wasn’t very successful in Orlando and barely had a cup of tea in Sacramento. Stupid Knicks could have easily brought in the real architect of the Pistons Dumars and it wouldn’t have cost them a second round pick.

And both teams are headed back to the lottery and showed zero improvement like the knicks.

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:A year removed from the Triangle and all that, the Knicks are in the same boat.
They had a nice run when KP was playing like a MVP the first few weeks, but when KP's body tired, the team was winning 3 in 10 games.

We continue to draft in a spot where we neither will be getting franchise level talent, or being close enough to the playoffs where one good move can put us in.

I really wish we had gone trust the process for this one year. Although the way Kristaps was playing early in the year, would have been hard to do. We did make some moves that made little sense for the longterm such as use Kanter, Jack as starters. Veterans that will get you more wins. If we surrounded Kristaps with young guys and G-Leaguers we may be drafting in the top 4 right now. The talent in the top 4 is much richer. Argh.

I don't think the management and the coaching staff realized how much of a project Frank was. Jack was brought in last minute because the Knicks desperately needed a point guard. Kanter was a part of the Melo deal and outplayed Willy and KOQ. There wasn't a clear trust the process path when this management team came in. They had to clean things up with the Melo deal and fill a hole in the roster that wasn't filled in at the draft. The Noah deal also made things messy and caused Kuz to be waived. However, aside from Jack, they stuck to their 25 and under plan.

Beasley isn’t 25 and younger. Neither was Sessions. Age has to equate to talent just adding young players doesn’t always equate to successful players. Once Kanter came to the Knicks he was going to start because the Knicks management had to feel they got something from the Melo deal. Ntlikina calling card is defense and offensively he still has that deer in headlights look. This is in Knicks coaching staff. Their developmental priorities are all over the place.

I forgot about Bease but Sessions was before Perry. Again, there wasn't a clear trust the path process for the new management team. The ntc, Noah's deal, what the Knicks got in the draft etc. put Perry in a position where he had to react to his roster instead of being proactive.

I’m not a Perry fan and losing a second rounder to get a GM ridiculous. Who does that but the Knicks. He is part of the hole that he too created.

What hole did Perry create?

The hole he created is getting McDermott instead of Terrance Ferguson. Then complicated further by adding Mudiay. Didn’t make a decision on firing JH ASAP to implement his guy wasted a year. That second rounder is huge that it cost to get him which I thought was crazy. Dishing out draft pick for someone who doesn’t even play. Right back to the old ways where draft picks don’t mean anything. Quick trigger to trade Willie a player on a cheap contract who if given an opportunity might of fetched a lower first rounder. For what Kanter and O’Quin if given a contract will amass 24-25 million for a center position in today’s NBA that isn’t smart investment. Unless they bring defense with scoring ability and rebounding might be fair value but neither are dynamic enough to warrant that kind of money. He could have played a better angle for draft positioning but he should have created and communicated a better agenda to JH that player development is important, play the vets less. He didn’t make any moves to obtain possible first rounder for Lee. I’ll don’t see Perry being successful here. He wasn’t very successful in Orlando and barely had a cup of tea in Sacramento. Stupid Knicks could have easily brought in the real architect of the Pistons Dumars and it wouldn’t have cost them a second round pick.

Was Terrence Ferguson an option? I thought it was reported that he wasn't but I could be wrong. I think Kanter had the salary slot to make Melo and his ntc go away. That was a horrible contract to move. Willie didn't put in the work and then asked to be traded. In regards to draft positioning, the Knicks had a 3-26 run. That is losing at a historic rate. Did any first round picks get moved at the deadline? I know there was no team offering that for Lee. In regards to Dumars, is he looking to get back into the league. Also, I don't think Dumars takes a job where he is second chair to Mills.

If Ferguson wasn’t an option it was in Mills and Perry’s inability to make him an option. The Knicks had the ball in their court. They were the ones that were hard up for a third superstar. The Knicksnshould have played that. They could have easily said I don’t want the second round pick I want Ferguson. OKC would have caved.

We're gonna be alright. We have a **** load of youth. We have talent. We have alot of guys that care. We'll get more because this guy Scott Perry has shown he is the real deal. Our time isn't now. Everyone has to be on board with being terrible next year again and drafting well.... the 2019 off season is a huge off season for us.... we're almost there.

You guys got to let go the past and see what's happening here. You don't want to miss what's really happening here. We're almost there fellas.

blkexec wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:A year removed from the Triangle and all that, the Knicks are in the same boat.
They had a nice run when KP was playing like a MVP the first few weeks, but when KP's body tired, the team was winning 3 in 10 games.

We continue to draft in a spot where we neither will be getting franchise level talent, or being close enough to the playoffs where one good move can put us in.

I really wish we had gone trust the process for this one year. Although the way Kristaps was playing early in the year, would have been hard to do. We did make some moves that made little sense for the longterm such as use Kanter, Jack as starters. Veterans that will get you more wins. If we surrounded Kristaps with young guys and G-Leaguers we may be drafting in the top 4 right now. The talent in the top 4 is much richer. Argh.

2013: Giannis and Gobert
2014: Jokic
2015: Booker
2016: Brogdon was ROTY
2017: Mitchell

Most of the best player's in each draft were drafted outside the top 10. Happens every year. We just need to find that guy at 9. So it's niave to say we are in a spot where we wouldn't get a franchise player, when in fact, the best player from each draft has been available at 9 or later. Look at the top 4 in previous drafts, just as many busts as stars. Talent evaluation matters more than draft position.

I like how you have some examples of draft success after top four picks. There is always hope. But for everyone of those that you mentioned there are the Sweetney, Jordan Hill type players. The chances of getting a good player is higher when drafting high. Everyone say I’m down on the Knicks and they are right. To me this has been one of the worst years in franchise history. They got neither the draft right or development right. The Knicks should be top three in draft position meaningless vet lead wins which is now going to haunt the fans barring Lady Luck saving our butts. Guys I didn’t see the development that some see. This year was a golden opportunity to develop players and lose a lot of games in the name of development.

I hope the optimists are right and the Knicks are going the right way. I sincerely wish that.

If we tank correctly....There will be pessimistic threads discussing why the head coach was fired....How we have a new GM now, trying to create his rebuilding strategy. Basically if you tank in NY, the media and especially fans will be on Dolans case to fire everybody and start over. This build / rebuild cycle forces more changes at the top, which creates an environment of more instability.

If we don't tank correctly.....There will be pessimistic threads about that, on how we should've lost every game. How that one game we won caused us a top pick. Blah....Blah...Blah

Aren't you guys tired of going back and forth....circle after circle, just to be in the same spot. We are our own worse enemy. The media starts it, and we feed on it.

Basically it doesn't matter which direction we take on this rebuild, somebody is going to have something to complain about. Fisher was hated on because we won some meaningless games. Guess what that got us....KP. So b4 the draft, majority of knicks fans created several negative sulking and depressing threads about this being the worse year. Every year was the worse year if you read all the threads.

Having a dedicated sulk thread may not be a bad idea.