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Is there a remote possibility the JH keeps his job
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knicks1248
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3/13/2018  10:24 PM
He seems very confident that he will, i just don't see how that's possible. Even if it's not about wins and loses, these team plays like they don't give a FCK,

They look loss, and are lacking in almost every aspect of the game , FT's, 3's, perimeter defense, hustle, heart, pride, poise, leadership, quickness, athleticism, IQ..

Who's more responsible for this ugly nightmare, MILLs, Perry or JH. The defense is by far the worst ever assembled.

7-34 since mid december, and two 8 game losing streaks in the process, blowouts at home to several teams below you, and he had the never to say guys are getting better...smfh..at what...LOSING?

ES
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jskinny35
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3/13/2018  10:39 PM
I think he may... Perry seems to verbally support/praise him and seems committed to the long-term rebuild. In fairness to Hornacek, he is playing G-League and youth/we have little NBA talent out there. I suspect they may wait until after next season to replace him. Makes sense to me - why bring in another coach and start over with all these young guys. Hornacek will likely be replaced, just not yet... Hornacek isn't helping his case as they should be playing harder - but I don't think Perry actually believes there is enough talent (right now) to expect more wins.
Jmpasq
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3/14/2018  6:58 AM
knicks1248 wrote:He seems very confident that he will, i just don't see how that's possible. Even if it's not about wins and loses, these team plays like they don't give a FCK,

They look loss, and are lacking in almost every aspect of the game , FT's, 3's, perimeter defense, hustle, heart, pride, poise, leadership, quickness, athleticism, IQ..

Who's more responsible for this ugly nightmare, MILLs, Perry or JH. The defense is by far the worst ever assembled.

7-34 since mid december, and two 8 game losing streaks in the process, blowouts at home to several teams below you, and he had the never to say guys are getting better...smfh..at what...LOSING?

Past GM's, Mills and Phil are responsible for this mess. Hornaceck didn't assemble this awful roster. Do you see who is on the court right now without Porzingis. The Knicks have the worst roster in the NBA, open your eyes. Your surprised they can't win, they suck. The only way this thing gets turned around by 2020 is if we hit back to back home runs in the draft. Whats the point of firing Hornaceck to bring in another guy who is over matched talent wise every single night. We are doomed next year as well. We can start to shoot for respectively after next season. The losing has to happen we have to get more young talent assembled on cost controlled contracts, we have to let the bad contracts phase out. I just pray to god the Knicks don't do anything stupid like stretch Noah to pay I Thomas 20 million a year for 4 years. It will start this nonsense all over again.

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franco12
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3/14/2018  7:18 AM
the only reason Hornacek should be brought back is if he is able to improve Mudiay and Frank's shooting. Hornacek was a shooter- it looks like he has been working with them on form. Can he get them to become good/decent shooters?

Because our 3rd quarter play is a big indictment that he has no clue what he is doing.

Honest, if that were me, I'd try keeping the guys on the bench during half time- try something, anything.

I get the lack of talent, but the lack of effort? The lack of smarts?

The only other reason Hornacek stays is there is no better option available to us this summer. Mark Jackson isn't a clear better option. I like Luke Walton, but I don't know you can see he is better, but I like how the Lakers have been playing- good effort there.

fishmike
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3/14/2018  8:52 AM
not a coaching problem but most who understand the game know that. Knicks are essentially an expansion team and thats OK. Right where we should be
arkrud
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3/14/2018  9:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/14/2018  9:46 AM
knicks1248 wrote:He seems very confident that he will, i just don't see how that's possible. Even if it's not about wins and loses, these team plays like they don't give a FCK,

They look loss, and are lacking in almost every aspect of the game , FT's, 3's, perimeter defense, hustle, heart, pride, poise, leadership, quickness, athleticism, IQ..

Who's more responsible for this ugly nightmare, MILLs, Perry or JH. The defense is by far the worst ever assembled.

7-34 since mid december, and two 8 game losing streaks in the process, blowouts at home to several teams below you, and he had the never to say guys are getting better...smfh..at what...LOSING?

What do you want to accomplish by firing him except of finding escape-goat?
Do you think this bunch of random dudes will magically win more games or start playing better for some other coach?
Do you really believe any good coach will come here now to damage his record by going through years of rebuild?

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
SupremeCommander
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3/14/2018  9:55 AM
I think there's a chance. I don't think a different voice makes this roster a playoff team -- it's trash. Also, who would replace him? If Jay Wright or Tony Bennett wants to come here, I could see a change. But just to recycle JH for another retread? God, I hope that doesn't happen
Nalod said: You had me at the first sentence. Then you asked us to be your emotional tampon.
knicks1248
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3/14/2018  11:39 AM
You can't keep a coach that the players aren't responding to. If the coach says run and the player walks, do you give up on the player or coach?

I'm not buying the roster is trash because we have seen them played at a high level. Aside from frank and lance, most of the players main players can put 20 points and can play decent defense.

The problems is the effort is the effort, and JH does not get his players to play hard.

What sense does it make to have any kind of roster if the players aren't going to play hard, it don't take talent to play with urgency, we have players that are getting worse by the game.

ES
fishmike
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3/14/2018  12:07 PM
knicks1248 wrote:You can't keep a coach that the players aren't responding to. If the coach says run and the player walks, do you give up on the player or coach?

I'm not buying the roster is trash because we have seen them played at a high level. Aside from frank and lance, most of the players main players can put 20 points and can play decent defense.

The problems is the effort is the effort, and JH does not get his players to play hard.

What sense does it make to have any kind of roster if the players aren't going to play hard, it don't take talent to play with urgency, we have players that are getting worse by the game.

We can listen to the same BS you spout all the time, or we can listen to Tim Hardaway who said this AFTER the coach blasted his defense during a TO
https://dailyknicks.com/2018/03/08/new-york-knicks-tim-hardaway-jr-defends-jeff-hornacek/

someone smarter than knicks1248 wrote:“He’s doing a great job in a tough situation,’’ Hardaway said of Hornacek. “Coaches are in a tough situation too. It’s easy for him to fold as well. He’s continuing to develop us as ballplayers, continuing to encourage us on both ends of the floor, especially in practice, continuing to have that killer instinct and mentality to instill in the ball club. We appreciate that and we’ll keep on fighting for him.’’
Swishfm3
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3/14/2018  12:40 PM
franco12 wrote:the only reason Hornacek should be brought back is if he is able to improve Mudiay and Frank's shooting. Hornacek was a shooter- it looks like he has been working with them on form. Can he get them to become good/decent shooters?

Because our 3rd quarter play is a big indictment that he has no clue what he is doing.

Honest, if that were me, I'd try keeping the guys on the bench during half time- try something, anything.

I get the lack of talent, but the lack of effort? The lack of smarts?

The only other reason Hornacek stays is there is no better option available to us this summer. Mark Jackson isn't a clear better option. I like Luke Walton, but I don't know you can see he is better, but I like how the Lakers have been playing- good effort there.

Spoken like a true internet troll that has never coached, let alone played, a sport.

The only two players that can improve Mudiay and Franks shooting are Mudiay and Frank. There isn't a magic pill or some a special *cue* that Hornacek can say that can fix it. The "players" have to put in the work. That's it.

You can't make someone play harder, or give more effort or make them a smarter player. At ANY level...all you can do is give them tools and hope that, one day, they learn to apply it.

Nalod
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3/14/2018  1:15 PM
one might appreciate what KP was doing on the court now he is not playing.
OP wants a rant and others to join him. I suppose it feels good at times.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
franco12
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3/14/2018  2:47 PM
fishmike wrote:not a coaching problem but most who understand the game know that. Knicks are essentially an expansion team and thats OK. Right where we should be

are you not troubled by the trend of 3rd quarter collapses?

I agree, the talent is lacking.

But I think back to Don Chaney, and at the time I wanted him fired because I thought he lacked offensive imagination.

But I realize he got a team that honestly wasn't a whole lot more talented than this group to win 37 games, and to be in every game, night in, night out.

I'm not advocating for Jeff to go. I like him. I think continuity is desperately needed, and I would like to see what he can do if we let him have the chance.

martin
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3/14/2018  2:56 PM
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:not a coaching problem but most who understand the game know that. Knicks are essentially an expansion team and thats OK. Right where we should be

are you not troubled by the trend of 3rd quarter collapses?

I agree, the talent is lacking.

But I think back to Don Chaney, and at the time I wanted him fired because I thought he lacked offensive imagination.

But I realize he got a team that honestly wasn't a whole lot more talented than this group to win 37 games, and to be in every game, night in, night out.

I'm not advocating for Jeff to go. I like him. I think continuity is desperately needed, and I would like to see what he can do if we let him have the chance.

good teams do adjust at halftime. What player on the Knicks is there to step up and carry offense, especially during 3rd quarter?

THJr can but he is hot and cold. Lee a complimentary player at best. Mudiay? Ew. Kanter? He is easily doubled and is always out of sorts when that happens. LT? LOL

Beas is hit and miss from game to game.

What options do the Knicks have? Trey can get his own for a hot minute.

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fishmike
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3/14/2018  3:13 PM
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:not a coaching problem but most who understand the game know that. Knicks are essentially an expansion team and thats OK. Right where we should be

are you not troubled by the trend of 3rd quarter collapses?

I agree, the talent is lacking.

But I think back to Don Chaney, and at the time I wanted him fired because I thought he lacked offensive imagination.

But I realize he got a team that honestly wasn't a whole lot more talented than this group to win 37 games, and to be in every game, night in, night out.

I'm not advocating for Jeff to go. I like him. I think continuity is desperately needed, and I would like to see what he can do if we let him have the chance.

yea.. what you realized is you were wrong. WRONG about coaching. That team won 37 games with a frontline of Kurt, Spoon and Othella. Chaney was a fantastic coach that year and anyone with brain could see it. Sorry dude... but this track gets old. Blaming the coach. Its the roster. Its the players. 3rd qtr collapses were OK with early on when the team was healthy and playing better.

Sorry to blast you but it drives me nuts because blaming the coach on a team like this (or that) is pure ignorance man.

No the 3rd qtr collapses dont trouble me. Jeff has made tons of adjustments. They (the KNicks) are not very good right now.

Hey Franco... when your coworkers are lazy, skip out early, take credit for stuff they didnt do or call out sick when you know they arent who do you blame? The boss? How people look at poor effort and stick that on the coach is beyond me. Can coaches inspire? Do some work better with some than others? Of course. That is not what we are talking about.

That is also why its important to have guys like Lee and Lance who have played for winning teams who can tell these guys NO... your EFFORT is NOT enough.

Nalod
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3/14/2018  3:24 PM
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:not a coaching problem but most who understand the game know that. Knicks are essentially an expansion team and thats OK. Right where we should be

are you not troubled by the trend of 3rd quarter collapses?

I agree, the talent is lacking.

But I think back to Don Chaney, and at the time I wanted him fired because I thought he lacked offensive imagination.

But I realize he got a team that honestly wasn't a whole lot more talented than this group to win 37 games, and to be in every game, night in, night out.

I'm not advocating for Jeff to go. I like him. I think continuity is desperately needed, and I would like to see what he can do if we let him have the chance.

good teams do adjust at halftime. What player on the Knicks is there to step up and carry offense, especially during 3rd quarter?

THJr can but he is hot and cold. Lee a complimentary player at best. Mudiay? Ew. Kanter? He is easily doubled and is always out of sorts when that happens. LT? LOL

Beas is hit and miss from game to game.

What options do the Knicks have? Trey can get his own for a hot minute.

Time to unleash the "French Prince"!!!

You don't show a fool a job half done!
franco12
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3/14/2018  3:34 PM
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:not a coaching problem but most who understand the game know that. Knicks are essentially an expansion team and thats OK. Right where we should be

are you not troubled by the trend of 3rd quarter collapses?

I agree, the talent is lacking.

But I think back to Don Chaney, and at the time I wanted him fired because I thought he lacked offensive imagination.

But I realize he got a team that honestly wasn't a whole lot more talented than this group to win 37 games, and to be in every game, night in, night out.

I'm not advocating for Jeff to go. I like him. I think continuity is desperately needed, and I would like to see what he can do if we let him have the chance.

yea.. what you realized is you were wrong. WRONG about coaching. That team won 37 games with a frontline of Kurt, Spoon and Othella. Chaney was a fantastic coach that year and anyone with brain could see it. Sorry dude... but this track gets old. Blaming the coach. Its the roster. Its the players. 3rd qtr collapses were OK with early on when the team was healthy and playing better.

Sorry to blast you but it drives me nuts because blaming the coach on a team like this (or that) is pure ignorance man.

No the 3rd qtr collapses dont trouble me. Jeff has made tons of adjustments. They (the KNicks) are not very good right now.

Hey Franco... when your coworkers are lazy, skip out early, take credit for stuff they didnt do or call out sick when you know they arent who do you blame? The boss? How people look at poor effort and stick that on the coach is beyond me. Can coaches inspire? Do some work better with some than others? Of course. That is not what we are talking about.

That is also why its important to have guys like Lee and Lance who have played for winning teams who can tell these guys NO... your EFFORT is NOT enough.

I'm trying to understand your point. Because, on the one hand- it seems like we agree, Chaney got max effort out of that group, and they outperformed.

But, then you're saying I can't hold Jeff accountable for the performance of this group, because they have no talent. But you cite 3 players who performed for Chaney that year that barely even belonged in the league.

I'm not saying any other coach could turn this group into a play off team.

But Riley of the 90's would have this group out there trying- and I'm not sure we're seeing that.

And I'm just talking results- I have not watched much of this team of late.

I turned on the game last nite, down comfortably, then Burke comes in and turns into Isiaih Thomas and sparks a small come back.

Why isn't Burke starting? He is our best, young PG. If not starting, why not playing? He got no minutes in the first half, then gets a chance when we're down 20.

I'm honestly just trying to ask questions.

If this franchise were a farm animal, it would have been put down a long time ago.

knicks1248
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3/14/2018  3:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/14/2018  3:46 PM
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:You can't keep a coach that the players aren't responding to. If the coach says run and the player walks, do you give up on the player or coach?

I'm not buying the roster is trash because we have seen them played at a high level. Aside from frank and lance, most of the players main players can put 20 points and can play decent defense.

The problems is the effort is the effort, and JH does not get his players to play hard.

What sense does it make to have any kind of roster if the players aren't going to play hard, it don't take talent to play with urgency, we have players that are getting worse by the game.

We can listen to the same BS you spout all the time, or we can listen to Tim Hardaway who said this AFTER the coach blasted his defense during a TO
https://dailyknicks.com/2018/03/08/new-york-knicks-tim-hardaway-jr-defends-jeff-hornacek/

someone smarter than knicks1248 wrote:“He’s doing a great job in a tough situation,’’ Hardaway said of Hornacek. “Coaches are in a tough situation too. It’s easy for him to fold as well. He’s continuing to develop us as ballplayers, continuing to encourage us on both ends of the floor, especially in practice, continuing to have that killer instinct and mentality to instill in the ball club. We appreciate that and we’ll keep on fighting for him.’’

I mean if your going to quote players, here's lee

“It’s not really what the team is doing. It’s what we’re making mistakes on. [b]We’re making mistakes on our basic rotations that we’ve been doing all year. We’re still making those same mistakes,”[/b] Lee said. “That’s the frustrating part.”

“When you watch film, it’s just all effort,” Lee said Monday after practice in Tarrytown, his first non-game work with the team in nearly a week following a death in the family. “Effort is the key to everything. It takes no talent to run from the paint out to contest a 3-point shot, that’s just all effort. We have to get everybody’s effort. Everybody’s got to be locked in

So then mills is bringing terrible players, the guy you think will bring us back to respectability, signed BURKE, Bease, THJ, Baker, jack, and traded for Kanter and mudaiy

I was praising the hell out of JH the first month of the season, so this is not some rant.

ES
fishmike
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3/14/2018  4:12 PM
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:not a coaching problem but most who understand the game know that. Knicks are essentially an expansion team and thats OK. Right where we should be

are you not troubled by the trend of 3rd quarter collapses?

I agree, the talent is lacking.

But I think back to Don Chaney, and at the time I wanted him fired because I thought he lacked offensive imagination.

But I realize he got a team that honestly wasn't a whole lot more talented than this group to win 37 games, and to be in every game, night in, night out.

I'm not advocating for Jeff to go. I like him. I think continuity is desperately needed, and I would like to see what he can do if we let him have the chance.

yea.. what you realized is you were wrong. WRONG about coaching. That team won 37 games with a frontline of Kurt, Spoon and Othella. Chaney was a fantastic coach that year and anyone with brain could see it. Sorry dude... but this track gets old. Blaming the coach. Its the roster. Its the players. 3rd qtr collapses were OK with early on when the team was healthy and playing better.

Sorry to blast you but it drives me nuts because blaming the coach on a team like this (or that) is pure ignorance man.

No the 3rd qtr collapses dont trouble me. Jeff has made tons of adjustments. They (the KNicks) are not very good right now.

Hey Franco... when your coworkers are lazy, skip out early, take credit for stuff they didnt do or call out sick when you know they arent who do you blame? The boss? How people look at poor effort and stick that on the coach is beyond me. Can coaches inspire? Do some work better with some than others? Of course. That is not what we are talking about.

That is also why its important to have guys like Lee and Lance who have played for winning teams who can tell these guys NO... your EFFORT is NOT enough.

I'm trying to understand your point. Because, on the one hand- it seems like we agree, Chaney got max effort out of that group, and they outperformed.

But, then you're saying I can't hold Jeff accountable for the performance of this group, because they have no talent. But you cite 3 players who performed for Chaney that year that barely even belonged in the league.

I'm not saying any other coach could turn this group into a play off team.

But Riley of the 90's would have this group out there trying- and I'm not sure we're seeing that.

And I'm just talking results- I have not watched much of this team of late.

I turned on the game last nite, down comfortably, then Burke comes in and turns into Isiaih Thomas and sparks a small come back.

Why isn't Burke starting? He is our best, young PG. If not starting, why not playing? He got no minutes in the first half, then gets a chance when we're down 20.

I'm honestly just trying to ask questions.

If this franchise were a farm animal, it would have been put down a long time ago.

Thats my point... Getting 37 wins out of a team with literally no frontcourt is a good coaching job. Chaney had Houston and Spree, and Spree missed the first like 9-10 games and they were essentially a +.500 team with both of them. That team hit 3s and took care of the ball.

But Riley of the 90's would have this group out there trying- and I'm not sure we're seeing that.
how would you know the difference?

Why isn't Burke starting? He is our best, young PG. If not starting, why not playing? He got no minutes in the first half, then gets a chance when we're down 20.

I'm honestly just trying to ask questions.

He's 25 from the Dleague and signed for next year. He's getting 18 minutes a game while Mudiay is getting 24. I mean is this really your issue with Jeff? 6 minute difference in minutes or who is starting? Maybe Burke does get some starts... its only been a few weeks since Jack was benched to view the youth.

Also what information from the front office are you working with? The Knicks have seen Burke all year in the G league. They just got Mudiay and want to evaluate him. You are making an assumption and putting that on the coach when you are not working with all the info.

Do you want to win these games with Trey Burke? Arent you one of the guys who have killed the Knicks for winning meaningless games and hurting their draft position when they should be evaluating young guys? How is this hard to see?

fishmike
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3/14/2018  4:18 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:You can't keep a coach that the players aren't responding to. If the coach says run and the player walks, do you give up on the player or coach?

I'm not buying the roster is trash because we have seen them played at a high level. Aside from frank and lance, most of the players main players can put 20 points and can play decent defense.

The problems is the effort is the effort, and JH does not get his players to play hard.

What sense does it make to have any kind of roster if the players aren't going to play hard, it don't take talent to play with urgency, we have players that are getting worse by the game.

We can listen to the same BS you spout all the time, or we can listen to Tim Hardaway who said this AFTER the coach blasted his defense during a TO
https://dailyknicks.com/2018/03/08/new-york-knicks-tim-hardaway-jr-defends-jeff-hornacek/

someone smarter than knicks1248 wrote:“He’s doing a great job in a tough situation,’’ Hardaway said of Hornacek. “Coaches are in a tough situation too. It’s easy for him to fold as well. He’s continuing to develop us as ballplayers, continuing to encourage us on both ends of the floor, especially in practice, continuing to have that killer instinct and mentality to instill in the ball club. We appreciate that and we’ll keep on fighting for him.’’

I mean if your going to quote players, here's lee

“It’s not really what the team is doing. It’s what we’re making mistakes on. [b]We’re making mistakes on our basic rotations that we’ve been doing all year. We’re still making those same mistakes,”[/b] Lee said. “That’s the frustrating part.”

“When you watch film, it’s just all effort,” Lee said Monday after practice in Tarrytown, his first non-game work with the team in nearly a week following a death in the family. “Effort is the key to everything. It takes no talent to run from the paint out to contest a 3-point shot, that’s just all effort. We have to get everybody’s effort. Everybody’s got to be locked in

So then mills is bringing terrible players, the guy you think will bring us back to respectability, signed BURKE, Bease, THJ, Baker, jack, and traded for Kanter and mudaiy

I was praising the hell out of JH the first month of the season, so this is not some rant.

good quote. Try reading it. Seems like Lee is calling out the players not the coach.

Yes its Mill's fault. Didnt he also say we are rebuilding? Yes he did. This is what you get. Yes... they are some crappy players and some that arent ready or know how to win in the league. Do you understand how rosters are built and players aquired in the NBA? Your the guy who wanted to give up young guys and pics for players like Bledsoe and Kemba. Your the guy who wants to be more like Miami, a team stuck in no mans land and no chance to win a title anytime sooner than the Knicks. Your the guy who wanted to bring back Derrick Rose.

Blame who you want. We have yet ANOTHER GM with crap to cleanup from the last. What player do you want the Knicks to get? Labrun?

CrushAlot
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3/14/2018  4:51 PM
Absolutely. He doesn't have players that he can win with at this point. He is following managements directive and trying to develop the young guys and sacrificing his w/l record in the process. It would be nice to have some continuity. If the Knicks were going to add an amazing coach then you move on from Jeff. I don't see that happening next year.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
Is there a remote possibility the JH keeps his job

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