I understand ur argument, but i still think it is very immature to be mentioned.

I wasn't talking about Kurt being overpowered. I was referring to ur previous comment.

look at the history.. the more KT plays the more we lose. KT is a bench player, always has been. He's a foul waiting to happen. He works hard on D, but hes not a good defender.. please. Anytime he's matched up against an offesive player at either spot he's killed. He's killed by KMart, Walker killed him so bad the Celtic won like 20 in a row against us. Big Z, Boozer, Kenny Freakin Thomas lights us up... please, while we are talking about KTs good defense please tell me one guy he's locked up... EVER. Tony Battie?

Let KT come off the bench where undersized hustle players are better suited. Nazr isnt the answer but he's clearly a better fit to play the 5 because of size and athleticism.

Posted by fishmike:

look at the history.. the more KT plays the more we lose. KT is a bench player, always has been. He's a foul waiting to happen. He works hard on D, but hes not a good defender.. please. Anytime he's matched up against an offesive player at either spot he's killed. He's killed by KMart, Walker killed him so bad the Celtic won like 20 in a row against us. Big Z, Boozer, Kenny Freakin Thomas lights us up... please, while we are talking about KTs good defense please tell me one guy he's locked up... EVER. Tony Battie?

Let KT come off the bench where undersized hustle players are better suited. Nazr isnt the answer but he's clearly a better fit to play the 5 because of size and athleticism.

Fish, the team loses with Kurt at center if you have diminutive SF giving you 3.9 rbs in 40 + mpg and a fat PF in Weatherspoon. You keep saying look at history, but, how do you know playing Kurt at center was the reason that team lost? Maybe it had nothing to do with Kurt and was simply because we had a 6'5" SF averaging less than 4 rbs in 40 mpg and had an obese PF who didn't care enough about basketball to get in shape. You can't compare that frontcourt with a frontcourt of TT, Sweetney, and Kurt. With certain frontcourts, you can use Kurt at C; with others you can't. Would a starting rotation of Kurt, Sweetney, and TT win us the championship? Probably not, unless Crawford emerges as the next Michael Jordan, Sweetney as the next Elton Brand, TT becomes a superstar, etc. Will it be good enough for the team to improve from last year and be in a good position in ten months to better address the center position? Probably yes.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 09/08/2004 11:51:22]

Bonn.... thats why I brought up the individual matchups. Spree at SF was good enough to get us to the ECFs.
KT's numbers remind of when Chris Calloway led the Giants in recieving year after year. Somebody HAD to. KT's 14/9 means nothing and here is why: We were outrebounded every game, last in the NBA in blocks and last in the NBA in points in the paint.

did people watch those games? Just answer me this... did we win games because of KT at center? Im sure there was a couple... heck, Eisley had a couple good games. That happens when you play 82.

You start KT at center and every night you start the game at a disadvantage. At least w/ Nazr he's big enough and athletic enough to make his defender pay for coming out to help on TT, Crawford or MArbury, because Nazr will dunk it in someones face. KT cant even do that.

KT plays hard, but I do not see how he fits into the type of group Isiah is putting together, except to come off the bench and hustle and bang

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by gunsnewing:

yeah don't get me wrong I hate Kurt Thomas too lol

but Nazr flat out stinks and no he's not atheletic. Stromile Swift is atheletic. He can actually get out on a break and block shots and play defense.. things you'll never see Nazr do.

Look at Nazr's Knicks numbers. He averaged almost a block every 24 minutes. His numbers as a Knick were 10 pts, 9 rebs and .9 blks in 24 minutes, while shooting well over 56%. That's not too shabby. If he could play 36 minutes, it stands to reason he could average 15, 13.5 and 1.5 blocks and then he would be extremely valuable either to us or in a trade. Nazr just needs to play more and his numbers will look better. His career has been derailed by injuries more than anything.

Frankly, I feel more comfortable with Nazr at center than I do with Sweetney at PF. If we had Stromile Swift or Chris Andersen or Drew Gooden or Chris Wilcox or Tyson Chandler at PF, I guarantee you no one would complain about Nazr. People are complaining about Nazr because Sweets is very small, which makes Nazr's average size at center look too small. If they got a real PF with hops, Nazr would not be an issue.

Your argument was good until u started knocking Sweetney. Sweetney is a true P/F. He is just a rookie (actually this will be his second year). Sweetney has hops and he can grab boards. If Sweetney's size was an issue, then he wouldn't have been with the Knicks when Isaiah took over. I say his size isn't an issue because of his bulk and hops. 6'8 to 6'10 is only 2 inches. I'm just defending Sweet-water Sweetney that's all. But u are right though, if we had a bigger P/F to compliment Nazr then he would be better judged by his critics.

Posted by crzymdups:

Maybe if Sweets sheds a few pounds he can develop some hops? I don't know, maybe. He was a fantastic shotblocker at Gtown with those arms, but he was also much bigger than most players, now he's smaller than some perimeter guys. Sweetney can adapt his game, but even I admit that Nazr and Sweets is a little small at the 4/5.

I just think it's easier to find an athletic hopping 4 than to find an athletic hopping 5. Look how cheaply the Cavs got Gooden. I know he has an annoying posse that travels around with him, but I was hoping the Knicks would get in the action for Gooden.

Actually, two guys who may pop free as far as trade availbility by the all-star break are either Kelvin Cato or Tony Battie. We could use their defensive pressence and size.

Let me ask u this? (I am not saying u are wrong, i'm just curious.) Who Would u substitute out of our roster now for those guys and why? Obviously I'm not talking about the like of Shandon and Penny, but of our 4 and 5s.

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by Bizzy211:

Posted by crzymdups:

Maybe if Sweets sheds a few pounds he can develop some hops? I don't know, maybe. He was a fantastic shotblocker at Gtown with those arms, but he was also much bigger than most players, now he's smaller than some perimeter guys. Sweetney can adapt his game, but even I admit that Nazr and Sweets is a little small at the 4/5.

I just think it's easier to find an athletic hopping 4 than to find an athletic hopping 5. Look how cheaply the Cavs got Gooden. I know he has an annoying posse that travels around with him, but I was hoping the Knicks would get in the action for Gooden.

Actually, two guys who may pop free as far as trade availbility by the all-star break are either Kelvin Cato or Tony Battie. We could use their defensive pressence and size.

Let me ask u this? (I am not saying u are wrong, i'm just curious.) Who Would u substitute out of our roster now for those guys and why? Obviously I'm not talking about the like of Shandon and Penny, but of our 4 and 5s.

I would trade Kurt for either Cato or Gooden, but probably not Battie. Frankly, I'd take almost anyone over Baker. I'm not sure I understand Isiah's interest in him, I'm thinking it was just a sweetner in the Crawford deal for Mr. Goodwin. I wonder how Craw feels about that? I hope Baker proves me wrong.

I don't think our front court is as jacked as everyone else seems to. If I could do one thing right now that would be so painless, it would be to sign Keon Clark and see if the guy has anything left in the tank.

Vin Baker has been kept because he still is an offensive and somewhat defensive player. If his surgery was a turn around in his play then you will definately see. I'm sure, if u were watching the games, u must of seen his production was obvious.

Posted by crzymdups:

oh....I watched the Baker games alright. Dear lord, did I watch them. Shiver.

Lol, hey he did okay..... come on man ur a Knicks fan for crying out loud

Posted by Bizzy211:

Posted by crzymdups:

oh....I watched the Baker games alright. Dear lord, did I watch them. Shiver.

Lol, hey he did okay..... come on man ur a Knicks fan for crying out loud

hey.. Baker can score and thats a plus. The nice thing about having guys like Baker and JYD is they will both have their moments. some games they wont play much at all.. other times they will give you a great push. It will depend on matchups but its nice depth to have.

We could have desperately used a guy like JYD in the Nets series because he would have at least put a body on KMart.

strike nothing.... ask any coach around the league whos more valuable. This is why OBrien was so pissed about losing Battie. He's one of the best frontcourt defenders in the league. Dont look at a statsheet and tell me what kind of player he is... please spare me.

Battie isnt a good scorer by any means, but he anchors you in the post on defense, he makes penetrating guards change their shot. He's one of the big reasons the Celtics got to the ECFs with Walker defending the 4.

This is what I'm talking about... stats schmats. The KNicks have enough scoring. Give me Bruce Bowen and Battie over Nazr, KT or Baker and Penny for this team in a minute... and I will show you another 5 wins. EASY