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My Ques. When? do we see Knicks becoming very good Or playoff team among elite NBA stars
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DJMUSIC
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2/28/2018  12:42 AM
I pondered this since we lost out on Steph Curry pick (desired by Donnie Walsh) but of course
only to have Curry picked 1 spot ahead #7 in NBA by Warriors.

Impact guys of course beside Curry (GS) was Harden (OKC), Derozan(Tor), Teague (Atl) & of course Blake Griffith (LAL)

However sad point is during our many years of Knicks fans the ballclub was really never elite OR good
(e.g playoffs)

Knicks were good 1 season with Mike Woodson , *That's it! exit playoffs.
Our Org. Knick team wasn't even good when Shaq Left Miami for LA, and Kobe, Duncan, a young LBJ began running things in 2004.
Now is what 2018?

During this era of Lebron James, Steph Curry, Chris Paul, James Harden, Westbrook, K.Leonard, J.Butler and on and on
of many oter NBA stars & Superstars in today's and recent years NBA. It P_sses me off like hell that we're that bad
for that long, & watching Lebron getting older cause my heart is all Knickerbockers.

Doesn't it bother you? the very very least that During the tims of these superstars fame mention and some stars prior
to Steph, LBJ, Harden ect. that Our NY Knickerbockers has never been good (yet) while these present NBA stars
carve their niche in NBA History book year in year out.

As avid long time Knick fan I am like many here, it bothers the HELL out of me on how long we've been
VERY bad very unlucky with lessened hope in sight. I ain't saying Lebron Or Steph, Harden , Russell Westbrook
new stars such as Greek-Freek, D.Lillard, Kyrie, P.George, Derozan none of them retiring any time soon.

HOWEVER , how much is a NY Local Knick fan to take? when do we ever turn the corner ? WITHOUT hittting "Reset" button year in yr. out
All the bad that's happened to our Knickerbocker organization as far as being irrelevant in contention in NBA East conference
basketball. Really hurts every season with no hope.

Where is confidence in organization? that Knickerbockers will hit reset & have a Coach in place for June 2018 draft ( 3 picks)
Its way over due that J.Hornachek and Kurtis 'blow' Rambis need to be out of Knicks plans. But I'll believe that when I see it!

I ponder how much Or when? does all this Knick fortune Or lack of planning to be the ELITE in NBA or among the best
this topic is hard pill to swallow.

Lebron and company NBA stars has & will never ever seen the Knickerbockers really really GOOD! anytime soon.

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arkrud
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2/28/2018  1:21 AM
DJMUSIC wrote:I pondered this since we lost out on Steph Curry pick (desired by Donnie Walsh) but of course
only to have Curry picked 1 spot ahead #7 in NBA by Warriors.

Impact guys of course beside Curry (GS) was Harden (OKC), Derozan(Tor), Teague (Atl) & of course Blake Griffith (LAL)

However sad point is during our many years of Knicks fans the ballclub was really never elite OR good
(e.g playoffs)

Knicks were good 1 season with Mike Woodson , *That's it! exit playoffs.
Our Org. Knick team wasn't even good when Shaq Left Miami for LA, and Kobe, Duncan, a young LBJ began running things in 2004.
Now is what 2018?

During this era of Lebron James, Steph Curry, Chris Paul, James Harden, Westbrook, K.Leonard, J.Butler and on and on
of many oter NBA stars & Superstars in today's and recent years NBA. It P_sses me off like hell that we're that bad
for that long, & watching Lebron getting older cause my heart is all Knickerbockers.

Doesn't it bother you? the very very least that During the tims of these superstars fame mention and some stars prior
to Steph, LBJ, Harden ect. that Our NY Knickerbockers has never been good (yet) while these present NBA stars
carve their niche in NBA History book year in year out.

As avid long time Knick fan I am like many here, it bothers the HELL out of me on how long we've been
VERY bad very unlucky with lessened hope in sight. I ain't saying Lebron Or Steph, Harden , Russell Westbrook
new stars such as Greek-Freek, D.Lillard, Kyrie, P.George, Derozan none of them retiring any time soon.

HOWEVER , how much is a NY Local Knick fan to take? when do we ever turn the corner ? WITHOUT hittting "Reset" button year in yr. out
All the bad that's happened to our Knickerbocker organization as far as being irrelevant in contention in NBA East conference
basketball. Really hurts every season with no hope.

Where is confidence in organization? that Knickerbockers will hit reset & have a Coach in place for June 2018 draft ( 3 picks)
Its way over due that J.Hornachek and Kurtis 'blow' Rambis need to be out of Knicks plans. But I'll believe that when I see it!

I ponder how much Or when? does all this Knick fortune Or lack of planning to be the ELITE in NBA or among the best
this topic is hard pill to swallow.

Lebron and company NBA stars has & will never ever seen the Knickerbockers really really GOOD! anytime soon.

If we do it right this tine - 3-5 years.
If we do it wrong again - never.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
meloshouldgo
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2/28/2018  6:33 AM
When Dolan dies and someone extricates the franchise from his dead clutching fingers.
The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
Vmart
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2/28/2018  8:33 AM
It bothers me too. I hope and pray that the win now mentality goes away because it is the reason why the Knicks have never been good. Add to it they have a win n win now mandate and it isn’t a destination the superstars crave. I know a lot of Knicks fans are deluded by NYC it’s a great place but to be avoided if you are an athlete.

I have said like forever that the draft is the only way the Knicks can get out of the mess they are in. It looks like there are no short cuts to sustainable winning the Knicks have to do their time. If think about it Houston might be the only team that has very little homegrown talent on the team. The rest all have one or two players that can be considered homegrown.

The Knicks are well on their way to add a third piece to the team this year. I still think the Knicks will start trading all their picks soon. Somehow the organization doesn’t understand the concept of d veloping players. I just don’t trust them to do the right thing.

Nalod
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2/28/2018  8:36 AM
Milwaukee was in a rut for 20 some odd years. Greek freak is changing that. Still, Jabari Injury and coaching changes plague them.
How many years is Giannis now in the league? A few years.
Really, only Lebron was hailed as the next big thing coming to the nBA. Kobe, 13th pick. Jordan was drafted 3rd.
Curry 7th, Harden 4th, Westbrook.......my point is its nevere a sure thing. KP, for all his warts was 3rd season all star. BTW, very few players reach this level at age 22. Very few. Reduce that draft, he goes second before Russell and Oka4.
We own our own no. 1 pick going forward. That’s new.
The past is done, can’t change it. We might not ever reach the pinnacle of fun you want but the components are at least available to create the opportunities that create “luck”.
The fundamentals are in place. Normal GM situation, auditioning youth and sitting the vets. We had melo, he alone was not enough if you can’t build a proper core.
It’s frustrating and KP’s injury set us back. Frank is not a break out rookie but that does not mean he won’t be a significant player down the road.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
knicks1248
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2/28/2018  11:29 AM
Win now should always be the course of actions, injuries, trades bad coaching will derail any long term process. With the way stars are pairing up with other stars...smh. The other day I heard ANTHONY DAVIS talking about the possibility of doing just that.

Labron and KD have started the trend of hooking up with other stars to have a real shot a championships, and the fact that they both won rings, better believe your going to start seeing more and more players doing that

ES
BigDaddyG
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2/28/2018  11:43 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/28/2018  11:44 AM
knicks1248 wrote:Win now should always be the course of actions, injuries, trades bad coaching will derail any long term process. With the way stars are pairing up with other stars...smh. The other day I heard ANTHONY DAVIS talking about the possibility of doing just that.

Labron and KD have started the trend of hooking up with other stars to have a real shot a championships, and the fact that they both won rings, better believe your going to start seeing more and more players doing that


Not so sure. For every KD, there's a Kyrie that wants his own team. Plus, cap projections aren't as glowing as they once were. Sure, there are guys who'll take pay cuts. But, 9* out of 10, players are going to the the destination that offers the most money.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Nalod
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2/28/2018  12:00 PM
knicks1248 wrote:Win now should always be the course of actions, injuries, trades bad coaching will derail any long term process. With the way stars are pairing up with other stars...smh. The other day I heard ANTHONY DAVIS talking about the possibility of doing just that.

Labron and KD have started the trend of hooking up with other stars to have a real shot a championships, and the fact that they both won rings, better believe your going to start seeing more and more players doing that

That's some real forthright insight! "stars hooking up"!!! what a concept!
Davis is on record saying he is committed to NOLA, and they will make the playoffs even with Boogie out.
They made a big "win move now" with Cousins and they have to tread water until he returns.
They commited to Drue Holiday, got Rondo and traded for cousins.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
technomaster
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2/28/2018  12:26 PM
The Knicks haven't had consistent success since the Ewing era ended. But now with the numbers in front of me, it's interesting to look at the bits of sucess we had.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/

The year after Ewing left (2000-2001), we had a .585 winning record. (Luc Longley was the prime recipient of Ewing's mins).

After that year, we didn't have a .500 record for a decade until 2010-2011. Arrival of Amare, then Carmelo late. (bye bye Gallo, Chandler)

We stayed over .500 for 2 more years, peaking at 54-28. I thought the Knicks were legit championship contenders - that is, until Garnett dislocated Carmelo's shoulder. I really liked that team - Kidd, Kenyon, KT40, Rasheed, Camby providing prototype championship level veteran leadership off the bench.

At that point, we thought we just needed mild retooling to maintain champion contender status for 3-5 more years.

Instead, things went south fast. We're now in our 5th consecutive sub-500 season.

The KP injury is a a major setback for this franchise. I'd say the safe bet is that we won't be legit playoff contenders until 'til the 2019-2020 season. Of course, a few things can go right for us that get us down a winning road next season:

1) Most importantly (and largely by luck) our 2018 lottery pick turns out to be an NBA-ready superstar, or is immediately seen as a future great. There haven't been too many rookies who have been all-star game worthy in recent years. Even the great Anthony Davis only averaged 13.5ppg in his rookie year - he wasn't ready to carry a team from day 1.

2) 2-3 young players develop into top-15 starters at their positions. We get an all-star level performer on the team. I don't think Kanter/THJr are that far away from being even or better than half of their direct matchups. But we badly need a top-15 or better PG on the team. I'm optimistic that out of Burke/Ntilikina/Mudiay, we may have a long term solution at PG. That would make a HUGE difference. We haven't had a really good PG since the aging Jason Kidd. (sad to say Calderon, Rose and Jennings didn't work out for us)

3) We sign top-15/borderline all-star or better player from free agency. I think the Knicks will bring back Kanter and perhaps take a look at Randle and Thomas, but I'm skeptical of the Knicks investing big in the free agent market. The only way we'd go down this road if our draft pick is really, really good.

Here's a link to the top free agents.
http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/

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franco12
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2/28/2018  1:58 PM
technomaster wrote:The Knicks haven't had consistent success since the Ewing era ended. But now with the numbers in front of me, it's interesting to look at the bits of sucess we had.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/

The year after Ewing left (2000-2001), we had a .585 winning record. (Luc Longley was the prime recipient of Ewing's mins).

After that year, we didn't have a .500 record for a decade until 2010-2011. Arrival of Amare, then Carmelo late. (bye bye Gallo, Chandler)

We stayed over .500 for 2 more years, peaking at 54-28. I thought the Knicks were legit championship contenders - that is, until Garnett dislocated Carmelo's shoulder. I really liked that team - Kidd, Kenyon, KT40, Rasheed, Camby providing prototype championship level veteran leadership off the bench.

At that point, we thought we just needed mild retooling to maintain champion contender status for 3-5 more years.

Instead, things went south fast. We're now in our 5th consecutive sub-500 season.

The KP injury is a a major setback for this franchise. I'd say the safe bet is that we won't be legit playoff contenders until 'til the 2019-2020 season. Of course, a few things can go right for us that get us down a winning road next season:

1) Most importantly (and largely by luck) our 2018 lottery pick turns out to be an NBA-ready superstar, or is immediately seen as a future great. There haven't been too many rookies who have been all-star game worthy in recent years. Even the great Anthony Davis only averaged 13.5ppg in his rookie year - he wasn't ready to carry a team from day 1.

2) 2-3 young players develop into top-15 starters at their positions. We get an all-star level performer on the team. I don't think Kanter/THJr are that far away from being even or better than half of their direct matchups. But we badly need a top-15 or better PG on the team. I'm optimistic that out of Burke/Ntilikina/Mudiay, we may have a long term solution at PG. That would make a HUGE difference. We haven't had a really good PG since the aging Jason Kidd. (sad to say Calderon, Rose and Jennings didn't work out for us)

3) We sign top-15/borderline all-star or better player from free agency. I think the Knicks will bring back Kanter and perhaps take a look at Randle and Thomas, but I'm skeptical of the Knicks investing big in the free agent market. The only way we'd go down this road if our draft pick is really, really good.

Here's a link to the top free agents.
http://hoopshype.com/2018/02/13/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/

I agree with everything you said - but critical is having us land the top pick in this draft. We can't pick another Frank when there are better talents available like a Donovan Mitchell was this year. We don't need to pick#1, but that would sure help.

nykshaknbake
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2/28/2018  5:26 PM
2 years to the playoffs. No path to contention for the next 5 years unless we get stupid lucky in the draft. We just don't have the cap space now and the team appeal and cap space now and in the coming years to attract any difference makers.
martin
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2/28/2018  5:45 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:2 years to the playoffs. No path to contention for the next 5 years unless we get stupid lucky in the draft. We just don't have the cap space now and the team appeal and cap space now and in the coming years to attract any difference makers.

Feel like 2 years before playoffs too, but deep playoffs with be determined by Lee's contract, FA market and who is available and who the Knicks could target, and the next 2 drafts.

In summer 2020, Noah will be off cap and only KP should be only long term contract outside of rookies. From there one out there is ample opportunity for the Knicks.

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knicks1248
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2/28/2018  6:41 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Win now should always be the course of actions, injuries, trades bad coaching will derail any long term process. With the way stars are pairing up with other stars...smh. The other day I heard ANTHONY DAVIS talking about the possibility of doing just that.

Labron and KD have started the trend of hooking up with other stars to have a real shot a championships, and the fact that they both won rings, better believe your going to start seeing more and more players doing that


Not so sure. For every KD, there's a Kyrie that wants his own team. Plus, cap projections aren't as glowing as they once were. Sure, there are guys who'll take pay cuts. But, 9* out of 10, players are going to the the destination that offers the most money.

And that's not the type of player you win with

ES
reub
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2/28/2018  6:45 PM
We'll be a rising playoff team the season after next. Call your bookie now!
nykshaknbake
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2/28/2018  6:48 PM
martin wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:2 years to the playoffs. No path to contention for the next 5 years unless we get stupid lucky in the draft. We just don't have the cap space now and the team appeal and cap space now and in the coming years to attract any difference makers.

Feel like 2 years before playoffs too, but deep playoffs with be determined by Lee's contract, FA market and who is available and who the Knicks could target, and the next 2 drafts.

In summer 2020, Noah will be off cap and only KP should be only long term contract outside of rookies. From there one out there is ample opportunity for the Knicks.

Hope you are right. I guess we haven't tried the overpay for mediocre talent thing in a while. If we have a clean roster with just KP and lots of cap space, it's conceivable someone wants to do a team up here.

SupremeCommander
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2/28/2018  7:49 PM
carry the two.....
GustavBahler said: Check please....
Paris907
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2/28/2018  8:09 PM
As much as I abhor Free agency, it will come into play at some point.
We’ve “ifs” in the backcourt so hopefully between Dotson, Mudiay Burke and Frank, a dynamic backcourt surfaces and rotation as well. Our front Court however is shaky. Let’s assume KP comes back and in 2 years is an all star again. My assumption is that he doesn’t play 5 as coming off an injury management won’t want him banging down Low night in and night out. Kanter is a luxury but not a startin 30 + minute 5 due to his deficiencies defensively and his lack of a jumper. He can’t guard down low or in the perimeter. If he stays he sends up securing 25 minutes a night as a sub. That leaves Sf and a 5.

If the Knicks draft Colin Sexton it’s because they don’t believe in one or two of the aforementioned quartet. If we pick 7, we can do better than Knox or either Bridges. Thus, we draft to find a star. If it’s Sexton and he turns into Donovon M, fine. If we draft a 5 and it’s Jackson or Carter - fine. The alternative is finding a SF. I think the Knicks will play Tim at SF this next year. His jumper is erratic and inconsistent and his IQ B.B. debateable. Thus we either break the bank in 2019-2020 for a SF or we trade next years first and one of our backcourt to either secure a Sf (Middleton) or to move up in the draft and secure Bamba/Bagley or Porter.

With a little luck and manuevering we can get in year after next and make noise. Bench : mudiay/Dotson/Kanter/Tim

HofstraBBall
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2/28/2018  8:33 PM
DJMUSIC wrote:I pondered this since we lost out on Steph Curry pick (desired by Donnie Walsh) but of course
only to have Curry picked 1 spot ahead #7 in NBA by Warriors.

Impact guys of course beside Curry (GS) was Harden (OKC), Derozan(Tor), Teague (Atl) & of course Blake Griffith (LAL)

However sad point is during our many years of Knicks fans the ballclub was really never elite OR good
(e.g playoffs)

Knicks were good 1 season with Mike Woodson , *That's it! exit playoffs.
Our Org. Knick team wasn't even good when Shaq Left Miami for LA, and Kobe, Duncan, a young LBJ began running things in 2004.
Now is what 2018?

During this era of Lebron James, Steph Curry, Chris Paul, James Harden, Westbrook, K.Leonard, J.Butler and on and on
of many oter NBA stars & Superstars in today's and recent years NBA. It P_sses me off like hell that we're that bad
for that long, & watching Lebron getting older cause my heart is all Knickerbockers.

Doesn't it bother you? the very very least that During the tims of these superstars fame mention and some stars prior
to Steph, LBJ, Harden ect. that Our NY Knickerbockers has never been good (yet) while these present NBA stars
carve their niche in NBA History book year in year out.

As avid long time Knick fan I am like many here, it bothers the HELL out of me on how long we've been
VERY bad very unlucky with lessened hope in sight. I ain't saying Lebron Or Steph, Harden , Russell Westbrook
new stars such as Greek-Freek, D.Lillard, Kyrie, P.George, Derozan none of them retiring any time soon.

HOWEVER , how much is a NY Local Knick fan to take? when do we ever turn the corner ? WITHOUT hittting "Reset" button year in yr. out
All the bad that's happened to our Knickerbocker organization as far as being irrelevant in contention in NBA East conference
basketball. Really hurts every season with no hope.

Where is confidence in organization? that Knickerbockers will hit reset & have a Coach in place for June 2018 draft ( 3 picks)
Its way over due that J.Hornachek and Kurtis 'blow' Rambis need to be out of Knicks plans. But I'll believe that when I see it!

I ponder how much Or when? does all this Knick fortune Or lack of planning to be the ELITE in NBA or among the best
this topic is hard pill to swallow.

Lebron and company NBA stars has & will never ever seen the Knickerbockers really really GOOD! anytime soon.

Maybe never. I think the times of having a franchise build a team through the draft or by adding one good player are long gone. Its all a matter of where the next "Super Team" will form. Several NBA experts have already made that clear. The new tye of NBA player does not want to win on his own. He wants to team up with as many superstars to dominate and stack up the chips. Look at Toronto and Boston. Very good teams that were bread and built as teams were back in the day. But who cares. They will never win a chip with GS, Cavs or the Rockets super teams out there.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
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2/28/2018  8:43 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Win now should always be the course of actions, injuries, trades bad coaching will derail any long term process. With the way stars are pairing up with other stars...smh. The other day I heard ANTHONY DAVIS talking about the possibility of doing just that.

Labron and KD have started the trend of hooking up with other stars to have a real shot a championships, and the fact that they both won rings, better believe your going to start seeing more and more players doing that


Not so sure. For every KD, there's a Kyrie that wants his own team. Plus, cap projections aren't as glowing as they once were. Sure, there are guys who'll take pay cuts. But, 9* out of 10, players are going to the the destination that offers the most money.

And that's not the type of player you win with


You can't win with James Harden? How many pay cuts did Kobe take to stay with the Lakers?
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
DJMUSIC
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3/1/2018  10:59 PM
Why doesn't knick management take blueprint from successful NBA francises?
Get that sure Jerry West type basketball guru, then let him
Get others in mix to scout/ draft as well as hire coaches who can aid in the
Recruitment of college stars in to be attracted to NY as place to play and win.
Of course with right piece/needs in place.

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My Ques. When? do we see Knicks becoming very good Or playoff team among elite NBA stars

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