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Would Kanter give up his 18mm
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BRIGGS
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2/15/2018  6:17 PM
for a 5 year 70mm$ contract? 14 per? Would give us an additional 4.7mm to spend and give Enes long term security --say a no trade contract first two years
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HofstraBBall
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2/15/2018  6:22 PM
BRIGGS wrote:for a 5 year 70mm$ contract? 14 per? Would give us an additional 4.7mm to spend and give Enes long term security --say a no trade contract first two years

I like Kanter, but whats the point of locking up a back up center that cant play defense for 5 years. You feel there are not many of those in the NBA?

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
stanleybostitch
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2/15/2018  6:37 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:for a 5 year 70mm$ contract? 14 per? Would give us an additional 4.7mm to spend and give Enes long term security --say a no trade contract first two years

I like Kanter, but whats the point of locking up a back up center that cant play defense for 5 years. You feel there are not many of those in the NBA?

The guy is a double-double machine who has improved every season in the league. I'd be all for a 5/70 deal as it gives us dominant paint option and rebounder who has a bit of the Oak in his game.

Patience with the rebuild, keep all the picks, no starphucks, and team-first attitude. Marinate a couple years and we're playing like the '72 team. Championship here we come!
BRIGGS
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2/15/2018  7:06 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:for a 5 year 70mm$ contract? 14 per? Would give us an additional 4.7mm to spend and give Enes long term security --say a no trade contract first two years

I like Kanter, but whats the point of locking up a back up center that cant play defense for 5 years. You feel there are not many of those in the NBA?

The lack of defense thing is ridiculous--hes more than fine.

TripleThreat
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2/15/2018  7:21 PM
BRIGGS wrote:for a 5 year 70mm$ contract? 14 per? Would give us an additional 4.7mm to spend and give Enes long term security --say a no trade contract first two years

A) You cannot have a NTC for only a partial length of a contract. If this was possible, free agency would never end during the offseason.

Out of the major sports, the NBA does not have a compensation pick system for lost free agents. The old sign and trade operated as a form of a compensation system. Now standard trades operate as a form of a compensation system ( i.e. Paul George to OKC) NTC chokes out the trade market, which would crush any type of compensation "in practice" anywhere in the league.

B) A player needs to have 8 years of NBA service time AND four years ( either consecutive or accumulated/non consecutive) with the same team to qualify for a NTC.

C) The Knicks could wait, let Kanter test the market in a cap choked out environment, then if he inexplicably didn't take his player option, they could sign him for 2 years at a far lower AAV than 14 million.

You are suggesting the team sign a guy through his decline phase, to outbid against itself without regard to the entire marketplace and offer an illegal contract.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
Andrew
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2/15/2018  7:31 PM
Would love to see him signed to a similar structured contest as Robert Covington. 16 plus year one, then 10, 10 etc
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blkexec
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2/15/2018  7:38 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/15/2018  7:38 PM
Beware.....of Kanters bloated stats. The reason why it doesnt produce wins is because he's giving up the same stats to the defender...

He's a solid backup or temporary starter to have....as a gap filler.

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
blkexec
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2/15/2018  7:42 PM
a poor mans zach randolph

because of his lack of rim protection....JH cant play him in the 4th.

why would you give someone 17 mil to play 3 quarters?

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
BRIGGS
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2/15/2018  7:44 PM
Andrew wrote:Would love to see him signed to a similar structured contest as Robert Covington. 16 plus year one, then 10, 10 etc

Maybe but the whole reason why Id do it is so I have the extra 5mm next year. I think that would give us the required money to sign a Hezonja and possibly one more guy.

BRIGGS
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2/15/2018  7:47 PM
blkexec wrote:a poor mans zach randolph

because of his lack of rim protection....JH cant play him in the 4th.

why would you give someone 17 mil to play 3 quarters?

He gives us stability. Every single night hes been there giving the same effort and production and there's value to that. I think he has additional upside--I think after the season here--maybe a few back and forthsin my own mind--Ive come to the conclusion that his stability is good for the team.

If I end up drafting Bamba--Ill put Bamba at PF like Ibaka.

Knixkik
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2/15/2018  7:47 PM
I think what we do with kanter will depend on the draft. A lot of bigs coming out. I'm hoping kanter opts in and we can delay that decision. I want another year of kanter and mudiay especially. No Long term commitments outside of the KP extension, hardaway contract and rookie deals. The one exception might be Beasley if he comes back on a 3 year deal well below market rate.
EnySpree
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2/15/2018  7:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/15/2018  7:51 PM
We can't sign Anyone long term truthfully. We should encourage Kanter to opt in....I seriously doubt we're looking to sign anyone this summer after KP went down
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Paris907
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2/15/2018  8:17 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:for a 5 year 70mm$ contract? 14 per? Would give us an additional 4.7mm to spend and give Enes long term security --say a no trade contract first two years

I like Kanter, but whats the point of locking up a back up center that cant play defense for 5 years. You feel there are not many of those in the NBA?

Many will disagree but the impact of this years Draft is critical. I don’t mind if Lee and Thomas play SF yet another year and i don’t mind the Mudiay experiment, and frankly while it’s painful at times, I’m willing to endure Franks growing pains. Yet if we manage to pick 6 or 7 and a Bona Fide “stud” 5 is still on the board, count me in. It’s critical. How else do teams come back on us four times this year when we’ve a 20 point lead. Assuming KP comes back at 90-95% and can protect the rim, an athletic 5 (Jackson/Carter/Bamba) would make the difference as it would provide stability. If he can run, and shot board and play great defense, I will take him over Trae Young or Doncic.
If Frank works out as a flex guard who plays great d and can pass, then either Timmy or Mudiay work out or not. That leaves the SF issue which will be solved once Noah and Lee are odd the books by draft or FA.

Paris907
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2/15/2018  8:20 PM
If you want Kanter keep Kanter but recognize the fact that he’s a 25 min a night rotation player who Billy Donovon sat in the 4th Qtr in the playoffs for all the right reasons b
BigRedDog
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2/15/2018  8:35 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:for a 5 year 70mm$ contract? 14 per? Would give us an additional 4.7mm to spend and give Enes long term security --say a no trade contract first two years

A) You cannot have a NTC for only a partial length of a contract. If this was possible, free agency would never end during the offseason.

Out of the major sports, the NBA does not have a compensation pick system for lost free agents. The old sign and trade operated as a form of a compensation system. Now standard trades operate as a form of a compensation system ( i.e. Paul George to OKC) NTC chokes out the trade market, which would crush any type of compensation "in practice" anywhere in the league.

B) A player needs to have 8 years of NBA service time AND four years ( either consecutive or accumulated/non consecutive) with the same team to qualify for a NTC.

C) The Knicks could wait, let Kanter test the market in a cap choked out environment, then if he inexplicably didn't take his player option, they could sign him for 2 years at a far lower AAV than 14 million.

You are suggesting the team sign a guy through his decline phase, to outbid against itself without regard to the entire marketplace and offer an illegal contract.

With Darvish arriving to Cubs' camp on Tuesday, the deal is now official. According to Bob Nightengale of USA Today, the yearly salaries break down as follows: $25 million in 2018, $20 million in 2019, $22 million in 2020, $22 million in 2021, $19 million in 2022, and $18 million in 2023. He has an opt-out after two years and a full no-trade clause for the first four years. It then switches to a limited no-trade clause consisting of 12 teams. Darvish and Tyler Chatwood are the new additions to a strong rotation which also includes Jon Lester, Jose Quintana, and Kyle Hendricks.

I don't really understand what you mean why FA would never end? Are u saying baseball rules and basketball are different?

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
fishmike
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2/15/2018  10:04 PM
Paris907 wrote:If you want Kanter keep Kanter but recognize the fact that he’s a 25 min a night rotation player who Billy Donovon sat in the 4th Qtr in the playoffs for all the right reasons b
Is this your first day here? Briggs knows more than Billy Donovan and defense is not that important. He'll be fine.

Here's my take. Kanter can be a nice piece, but you really need 4 other quality defenders out there. KP is one. Frank is not a good NBA player right now. Dotson, Baker, Burke, THjr... I mean you need a group of perimeter guys who can stop penetration because Kanter simply cant help. He can however rebound among the best and scorer as well. He's also not a bad passer and sets a good pick. He can be a useful piece but Im not sure we are close enough to having the pieces that make having him worth it.

Hopefully he opts in so we have more time. He also adds leadership. He plays at a speed and energy level few can match. When they do match it Kanter is pretty bad. In a league full of attacking guards its really tough to give big money to a 5 who doesnt protect the rim. I dont see too many long term scenarios that make sense for the Knicks. Thing can change though and Kanter does bring some things that are hard to ignore.

TripleThreat
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2/16/2018  3:48 AM
BigRedDog wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:for a 5 year 70mm$ contract? 14 per? Would give us an additional 4.7mm to spend and give Enes long term security --say a no trade contract first two years

A) You cannot have a NTC for only a partial length of a contract. If this was possible, free agency would never end during the offseason.

Out of the major sports, the NBA does not have a compensation pick system for lost free agents. The old sign and trade operated as a form of a compensation system. Now standard trades operate as a form of a compensation system ( i.e. Paul George to OKC) NTC chokes out the trade market, which would crush any type of compensation "in practice" anywhere in the league.

B) A player needs to have 8 years of NBA service time AND four years ( either consecutive or accumulated/non consecutive) with the same team to qualify for a NTC.

C) The Knicks could wait, let Kanter test the market in a cap choked out environment, then if he inexplicably didn't take his player option, they could sign him for 2 years at a far lower AAV than 14 million.

You are suggesting the team sign a guy through his decline phase, to outbid against itself without regard to the entire marketplace and offer an illegal contract.

With Darvish arriving to Cubs' camp on Tuesday, the deal is now official. According to Bob Nightengale of USA Today, the yearly salaries break down as follows: $25 million in 2018, $20 million in 2019, $22 million in 2020, $22 million in 2021, $19 million in 2022, and $18 million in 2023. He has an opt-out after two years and a full no-trade clause for the first four years. It then switches to a limited no-trade clause consisting of 12 teams. Darvish and Tyler Chatwood are the new additions to a strong rotation which also includes Jon Lester, Jose Quintana, and Kyle Hendricks.

I don't really understand what you mean why FA would never end? Are u saying baseball rules and basketball are different?


You are citing an example in MLB. In the NBA, you can't have a NTC that covers only a partial length of the total contract. It violates the CBA.

IF, and it's a huge IF, the NBA decided to revise it's NTC within the CBA, the functional problem is that IF a partial contract length NTC existed, that means the 8 Years Total/4 Years With The Same Team standard would need to be extinguished. The 8/4 benchmark is a service time/tenure issue, which means shading the length of security of a possible NTC negates the point of rewarding service time/tenure in the first place. Which means all Tier 2 FAs would try to negotiate for a partial NTC to the point of stalemate with NBA GMs. Tier 1 guys could swing it, most of them, because they are high value enough. With Tier 2 FAs locked up in stalemate, no one is going to sign Tier 3 and 4 guys. Because teams want to know what Tier 2 guys they can get before committed to lesser talented/productive players.

NBA FA would grind to a halt.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
franco12
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2/16/2018  7:56 AM
The only problem I have with giving Kanter that kind of money is I want KP to be our center, and for us to find a PF like Kanter with a bit more mobility.

That said - if he would sign that deal, then you figure next year there is no KP, he's your center. And then maybe 1-2 more years after that for KP to better mature to play center - and his last two years as a back up c @ $14M would probably not be hard to move in a deal if you wanted to.

I don't think they settle, but hey there is a correction coming in basketball just like in baseball.

My other caveat is looking ahead to when we have to sign KP long term, what our cap number looks like then, and whether this deal eliminates flexibility.

smackeddog
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2/16/2018  11:04 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/16/2018  1:01 PM
We need to wait until the draft before deciding what to do with Kanter. If we get lucky and land near the top and take a front court player then I'd let him walk. If we end up wit a PG, SG or SF then I'll consider keeping him for a reasonable price.
martin
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2/16/2018  12:07 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:for a 5 year 70mm$ contract? 14 per? Would give us an additional 4.7mm to spend and give Enes long term security --say a no trade contract first two years

I like Kanter, but whats the point of locking up a back up center that cant play defense for 5 years. You feel there are not many of those in the NBA?

The lack of defense thing is ridiculous--hes more than fine.

Do you watch Knicks games? I can't believe that you would be fine with Kanter's defense.

I'd like to see the Knicks build a deep playoff team. If you think Kanter's defense is good enough in that context than I'd say your instincts are absolutely wrong.

If you are good with a borderline and 1 and out playoff team, have at it with Kanter.

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Would Kanter give up his 18mm

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