Nalod wrote:Small changes add up and for goodness sake its worth every life to try!! We are long past events changing peoples minds.
My family has been touched by a sensless murder by a man who had a gun that was supposed to have been removed by the sheriff due to a restraining order. He did not have license for it but they suppose to come and collect them. This bought this home to our family. I am enraged by these murders!
My son was in a movie theatre lobby and kid 10 feet from him was gunned down in a gang related argument. He was 16 at the time. My boy was a bit dramatized by the ordeal.
I can't imagine what this has done in urban communities with high "body counts".
I can't imagine any father of any child killed not losing his mind on those very recipients of NRA funds who vote for lax laws over the people. I suppose they stop because it makes them into the monster that took their child. The sick phuchs who have gone after the Sandy Hook parents are culpable. THis is the Alex Jones crowd and they are big Trump supporters.
Time to put people before party. The "Take a knee" bought attention to police violence. Trump loves the damage it does to NFL because of his failed USFL team. It also dilutes the message as being anti patriotic!

Dont mistaken my tone for insensitivity. Its just when you consider the amount of firepower out there on the street do people really think partial bans or making it tougher to get specific weapon types is going to make any difference at all?

"But we gotta try!"

Maybe try something different? I dont know Nalod. I dont know what the solution is. You have two very different viewpoints and cultures in one country. States with tougher guns have fewer killings. Thats an easy one. The only plausible solution as currently presented is to separate those cultures as much as possible. Its works over large averages. Would it have prevented this? We both know it likely would not have. Connecticut has very tough laws. Sandy Hook happened there.

Here's a question. Guns have been around awhile. School shootings are pretty new. How did this come about? Free press and free speech are great, until all the bad people copy each other because everyone knows what they did, how they did it and how much pain they caused. I think these people who are able to hurt others this way are in great pain. I think they see others being happy while they suffer. I think they see the suffering of people on the internet who are at ground zero of these horrific events. I think they see that suffering and identify with it. THATS HOW I FEEL they say. I think those people who hurt others that way want those people to feel their own suffering. Our intense coverage of these events ensures they continue.

Our freedoms, every one of them comes with a cost. Free speech, free press.... there is always a cost. The whole point of the 2nd amendment is the Gov can not take away our freedoms (starting with no taxation w/o representation) because... we are armed.

Big cost to that one also.

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:Small changes add up and for goodness sake its worth every life to try!! We are long past events changing peoples minds.
My family has been touched by a sensless murder by a man who had a gun that was supposed to have been removed by the sheriff due to a restraining order. He did not have license for it but they suppose to come and collect them. This bought this home to our family. I am enraged by these murders!
My son was in a movie theatre lobby and kid 10 feet from him was gunned down in a gang related argument. He was 16 at the time. My boy was a bit dramatized by the ordeal.
I can't imagine what this has done in urban communities with high "body counts".
I can't imagine any father of any child killed not losing his mind on those very recipients of NRA funds who vote for lax laws over the people. I suppose they stop because it makes them into the monster that took their child. The sick phuchs who have gone after the Sandy Hook parents are culpable. THis is the Alex Jones crowd and they are big Trump supporters.
Time to put people before party. The "Take a knee" bought attention to police violence. Trump loves the damage it does to NFL because of his failed USFL team. It also dilutes the message as being anti patriotic!

this is all emotion. I get it. "Small changes add up." I mean ok... do they?
Here are some good stats for the last 30 years.
https://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/publish/news/newsroom/9562
When it was bad 6 people per/100,000 were being killed in gun homicides. When it was better it was 4 people per/100,000

Dont mistaken my tone for insensitivity. Its just when you consider the amount of firepower out there on the street do people really think partial bans or making it tougher to get specific weapon types is going to make any difference at all?

"But we gotta try!"

Maybe try something different? I dont know Nalod. I dont know what the solution is. You have two very different viewpoints and cultures in one country. States with tougher guns have fewer killings. Thats an easy one. The only plausible solution as currently presented is to separate those cultures as much as possible. Its works over large averages. Would it have prevented this? We both know it likely would not have. Connecticut has very tough laws. Sandy Hook happened there.

Here's a question. Guns have been around awhile. School shootings are pretty new. How did this come about? Free press and free speech are great, until all the bad people copy each other because everyone knows what they did, how they did it and how much pain they caused. I think these people who are able to hurt others this way are in great pain. I think they see others being happy while they suffer. I think they see the suffering of people on the internet who are at ground zero of these horrific events. I think they see that suffering and identify with it. THATS HOW I FEEL they say. I think those people who hurt others that way want those people to feel their own suffering. Our intense coverage of these events ensures they continue.

Our freedoms, every one of them comes with a cost. Free speech, free press.... there is always a cost. The whole point of the 2nd amendment is the Gov can not take away our freedoms (starting with no taxation w/o representation) because... we are armed.

Big cost to that one also.

we do have to try. we have a serious gun problem. I think the number I heard last night is 42% o fthe civilian firearms in the world are in the United States. that's insane.

other countries have done things that work, such as gun buy back programs

what, we can try and change the culture of our basketball team but not the culture of our country? I have been pro-second amendment for along time and still am but. something. has. to. change.

fishmike wrote:
Our freedoms, every one of them comes with a cost. Free speech, free press.... there is always a cost. The whole point of the 2nd amendment is the Gov can not take away our freedoms (starting with no taxation w/o representation) because... we are armed.

Big cost to that one also.

When have citizens successfuly fought the government off with guns? Civil war was the closest yet in the end, government prevailed. The civil rights movement won thanks to MLK's non violent stance, not to the black panthers more radical approach. Firearms should only be carried by law enforcement, the 2nd amendment is as obsolete as the electoral college. Justifiable 200 years ago, outdated in the 21st century.

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:Small changes add up and for goodness sake its worth every life to try!! We are long past events changing peoples minds.
My family has been touched by a sensless murder by a man who had a gun that was supposed to have been removed by the sheriff due to a restraining order. He did not have license for it but they suppose to come and collect them. This bought this home to our family. I am enraged by these murders!
My son was in a movie theatre lobby and kid 10 feet from him was gunned down in a gang related argument. He was 16 at the time. My boy was a bit dramatized by the ordeal.
I can't imagine what this has done in urban communities with high "body counts".
I can't imagine any father of any child killed not losing his mind on those very recipients of NRA funds who vote for lax laws over the people. I suppose they stop because it makes them into the monster that took their child. The sick phuchs who have gone after the Sandy Hook parents are culpable. THis is the Alex Jones crowd and they are big Trump supporters.
Time to put people before party. The "Take a knee" bought attention to police violence. Trump loves the damage it does to NFL because of his failed USFL team. It also dilutes the message as being anti patriotic!

this is all emotion. I get it. "Small changes add up." I mean ok... do they?
Here are some good stats for the last 30 years.
https://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/publish/news/newsroom/9562
When it was bad 6 people per/100,000 were being killed in gun homicides. When it was better it was 4 people per/100,000

Dont mistaken my tone for insensitivity. Its just when you consider the amount of firepower out there on the street do people really think partial bans or making it tougher to get specific weapon types is going to make any difference at all?

"But we gotta try!"

Maybe try something different? I dont know Nalod. I dont know what the solution is. You have two very different viewpoints and cultures in one country. States with tougher guns have fewer killings. Thats an easy one. The only plausible solution as currently presented is to separate those cultures as much as possible. Its works over large averages. Would it have prevented this? We both know it likely would not have. Connecticut has very tough laws. Sandy Hook happened there.

Here's a question. Guns have been around awhile. School shootings are pretty new. How did this come about? Free press and free speech are great, until all the bad people copy each other because everyone knows what they did, how they did it and how much pain they caused. I think these people who are able to hurt others this way are in great pain. I think they see others being happy while they suffer. I think they see the suffering of people on the internet who are at ground zero of these horrific events. I think they see that suffering and identify with it. THATS HOW I FEEL they say. I think those people who hurt others that way want those people to feel their own suffering. Our intense coverage of these events ensures they continue.

Our freedoms, every one of them comes with a cost. Free speech, free press.... there is always a cost. The whole point of the 2nd amendment is the Gov can not take away our freedoms (starting with no taxation w/o representation) because... we are armed.

Big cost to that one also.

Emotion? More like common sense. Btw. Why quote a study done in 2012? Great, we found out that white guys like to kill themselves and most homicides happen among African Americans. Thanks for the insight.

Here is the thing, people can go and find stats/facts and make any wrong idea sound good. You just did. Without using some simple logic to alnalyze what the real issue is. You are missing THE MOST IMPORTANT point! And it has nothing to do with HANDGUNS or homicide rates. Its has everyhting to do with ASSAULT RIFFLES!! We dont need them. But thats just simple common sense. But I guess you missed that point as you were busy quoting a 2012 study. Here is some more commons sense.. the second amendment was designed for people who lived in the middle of no where and did not trust the government to protect them. It was also written in a time that "Arms" reffered to pea shooter that needed to be filled with gun powder. Fact is, people are too stupid to remember this. Gun companies know this and continue to hide behind that pretense when arming every 19 year old , that has a couple of hundred bucks, with a riffle that is used in modern warfare.
I have an idea. I should be able to buy a nuclear weapon as it is my right to bear arms. I mean what do I do if my enemy on my block gets one before I do.

Here is the problem.
The average citizen is stupid, forget easily and wont do any real work for any cause. They just like burgers.
Politicians need NRA's money so they will never sign a bill against any gun company.
Gun companies dont give a **** about 17 people dying. They probably like it as most gun stock prices and sales go up after a mass shooting.
Things never change, they just get worse. People just put their heads in the sand and hope it goes away. It wont.

BRIGGS wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/japan-almost-completely-eliminated-gun-200700252.html

Japanese people share a culture, that plays a big role in elimination of guns. In the US most people see themselves and others as something else which leads fear. People who buy guns are fearful of other cultures.

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:this is part of America. Its a gun toting nation. Its not just that the NRA is the strongest and best funded lobby in Wash. What people fail to understand is a massive part of this country's population believe in the 2nd ammendment and armed citizens. They put the right to bear arms as important an American value as free speech and the most basic right. I mean I could go into gun culture all day. City people dont understand it. Neither to most suburbanites. In the rest of the country its as important as the good lord Jesus. That is what you are up against.

Also here it is:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That is incredible and simple language. The constitution is the backbone of this country. Shall not be infringed. Drink that in guys.

The ONLY solution is mental health. No gun laws will prevent these shootings. The thought of "liberals coming after their guns" only strengthens the lobby. What happens after gun tragedies? Sales go up. Stock pile.

My suggestion is Canada or Europe. Different laws and different culture. Im not being snarky. Just suggesting some acceptance is in order before people look at what can and cant be changed.

Sucks. Social media fuels it. When these people hurt, and want to hurt others there is a platform. Everyone sees it. Now it can be used as a threat. Now angry teens have a voice. There are many hard questions ahead. Terrible tragedy and a big problem here. Or is it? Do we need to be safe or do we need to feel safe?

Slavery was constitutional as well, part of the same backbone, drink that in.
It's a document, it's not infallible. Times have changed, the world has changed, there's no shame in admitting the Constitution needs to change.

so you ready go to war to get rid of the guns? You willing to strap one on and fight to have them removed? You ready to fight that group of Americans who are fallible and need to recognized times changed? Drink that in.

No, I am not. War is not the only way to solve a problem. Even in America
But someone somewhere has to start the dialogue and I am looking for the Democrats to do that and be real leaders.

Democrats be real leaders... to what end? Your missing the point. Not everyone feels and thinks like you do. I happen to be one that does, but many dont.

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/japan-almost-completely-eliminated-gun-200700252.html

Japanese people share a culture, that plays a big role in elimination of guns. In the US most people see themselves and others as something else which leads fear. People who buy guns are fearful of other cultures.

The bold is nothing but one person's opinion. How many gun owners to do you know Vmart?

BRIGGS wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/japan-almost-completely-eliminated-gun-200700252.html

And sorry dude.... but your a Trump guy so on this issue you can stick a sock in your mouth.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database.

President Barack Obama recommended the now-nullified regulation in a 2013 memo following the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, which left 20 first graders and six others dead. The measure sought to block some people with severe mental health problems from buying guns.

Related: Assault Weapons Not Protected by Second Amendment, Federal Appeals Court Rules

The original rule was hotly contested by gun rights advocates who said it infringed on Americans’ Second Amendment rights

So there is that.....

Any other Make America Great phucknuts want to add to this?

Good... lets let the grownups talk.

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:this is part of America. Its a gun toting nation. Its not just that the NRA is the strongest and best funded lobby in Wash. What people fail to understand is a massive part of this country's population believe in the 2nd ammendment and armed citizens. They put the right to bear arms as important an American value as free speech and the most basic right. I mean I could go into gun culture all day. City people dont understand it. Neither to most suburbanites. In the rest of the country its as important as the good lord Jesus. That is what you are up against.

Also here it is:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That is incredible and simple language. The constitution is the backbone of this country. Shall not be infringed. Drink that in guys.

The ONLY solution is mental health. No gun laws will prevent these shootings. The thought of "liberals coming after their guns" only strengthens the lobby. What happens after gun tragedies? Sales go up. Stock pile.

My suggestion is Canada or Europe. Different laws and different culture. Im not being snarky. Just suggesting some acceptance is in order before people look at what can and cant be changed.

Sucks. Social media fuels it. When these people hurt, and want to hurt others there is a platform. Everyone sees it. Now it can be used as a threat. Now angry teens have a voice. There are many hard questions ahead. Terrible tragedy and a big problem here. Or is it? Do we need to be safe or do we need to feel safe?

Slavery was constitutional as well, part of the same backbone, drink that in.
It's a document, it's not infallible. Times have changed, the world has changed, there's no shame in admitting the Constitution needs to change.

so you ready go to war to get rid of the guns? You willing to strap one on and fight to have them removed? You ready to fight that group of Americans who are fallible and need to recognized times changed? Drink that in.

No, I am not. War is not the only way to solve a problem. Even in America
But someone somewhere has to start the dialogue and I am looking for the Democrats to do that and be real leaders.

Im not advocating war. I simply said said guns are part of the constitution. You said so was slavery and that was changed.... after over a million casualties. So if you want to tie in one aspect you need to tie in the other. Slavery didnt stop with good ideas and logical thinking. It ended with 3% of the population dying and 600K plus soldiers.

Democrats be real leaders... to what end? Your missing the point. Not everyone feels and thinks like you do. I happen to be one that does, but many dont.

I don't think just because Slavery couldn't be ended without war automatically means the constitution cannot be changed without war. I am also not saying lots of people think like me, I am saying people who do think like me need to speak out and popularize a counter argument. That hasn't happened. Democrats lead to what end?? the NRA pushes their BS to what end? The whole country is paralyzed by this concept that people should be allowed to own guns because it's the constitution. Unless someone proposes a counter argument you can't even measure how much support is there for actual change.

And the constitution DOES NOT give carte blanche to people to own guns. It says the right to own cannon be infringed BECAUSE A well regulated militia is needed. Show me the well regulated militia? See how you conveniently bolded just one part of the sentence and left the context out?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

That is incredible and simple language. The constitution is the backbone of this country. Shall not be infringed. Drink that in guys.

The whole country is paralyzed by this concept that people should be allowed to own guns because it's the constitution

A huge portion of this country wants guns. The love guns. Guns are symbol of freedom. Guns are a simple the tyranny and the repression of the population is not possible here. If Putin tried his KGB **** here we would kill his agents. That **** doesnt go on here. We got GUNS. Dont tread on me. BLA BLA BLA

I am not telling you to agree. But you seem to have a healthy denial or ignorance of just how healthy, embedded and growing the gun culture population is here. People in red states specifically vote gun lobby supporters in to preserve this. Why do you think its so hard to change the laws? Lots of people vote gov in that is there to ensure they DONT change. I am just saying you need to acknowledge that and understand it a little better. Guns are a deep running aspect of culture here. Again.. not selling, not agreeing, just trying to get people to understand the depth and look at more than just their knee jerk reactions of this has gotta change.

It does.

How?