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Do not want incomplete inconsistent basketball players anymore
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fishmike
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2/14/2018  12:33 PM
Vmart wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Vmart wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

The Knicks haven’t had a well rounded player since Patrick Ewing. This team can’t get a superstar. This team invests in flawed players one after another just look at the players that come in. The Knicks are now invested in KP and no one can delude themselves into thinking he has no flaws he is extremely flawed. Look at the players the Knicks have now everyone one of them have crazy flaws.

This organization is a sad organization that is destined to fail. They don’t have a f’ing clue. This organization is f’ing around and will continue to do so. They don’t realize the players flaws that is a very big problem. They are just plugging players without a rhyme or reason.

Porzingis is as well-rounded as Ewing was at age 22. More in fact. He dominates both side of the ball at times. He is not perfect, but will improve. He is as well-rounded as any 22 year old in the league. The drop off this team has had without him says it all. Stop whining and just let things play out.

KP can get better but his shooting is getting worse and rebounding needs a lot of work. He can be a better ball mover. These are flaws that need to be worked on. Acknowledging flaws should not be seen as negative they should be looked at as areas of improvement. Especially for the young like KP.

The problem with this is that the Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws. They don’t point it out to the players. If they don’t point it out how are they going to improve if they don’t work on it improvement will be futile.

this is as made up as Shrek and Donkey. "Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws" I mean how are you quantifying that and are you talking about last 20 years? Last 4? Under new management? Do tell.

Sure seems like they are acquiring a lot of guys who's games they are looking to improve on. Burke started in the D league. The day THjr was signed they said they still expect him to improve as a player. They just brought in Mudiay. Vet guys like Lee and Kanter are having career years. Beasley is having his best season in many. Guys have been benched this season and brought back and they have played better.

There has been a lot of focus on improving players. I have no idea what your seeing and want to hear why you think that. The problem is the players arent very good right now, so its going to be a struggle on the court. Most everyone except the usual guy predicted that would be the case this season.

AUTOADVERT
Vmart
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2/14/2018  12:33 PM
Knixkik wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Vmart wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

The Knicks haven’t had a well rounded player since Patrick Ewing. This team can’t get a superstar. This team invests in flawed players one after another just look at the players that come in. The Knicks are now invested in KP and no one can delude themselves into thinking he has no flaws he is extremely flawed. Look at the players the Knicks have now everyone one of them have crazy flaws.

This organization is a sad organization that is destined to fail. They don’t have a f’ing clue. This organization is f’ing around and will continue to do so. They don’t realize the players flaws that is a very big problem. They are just plugging players without a rhyme or reason.

Porzingis is as well-rounded as Ewing was at age 22. More in fact. He dominates both side of the ball at times. He is not perfect, but will improve. He is as well-rounded as any 22 year old in the league. The drop off this team has had without him says it all. Stop whining and just let things play out.

KP can get better but his shooting is getting worse and rebounding needs a lot of work. He can be a better ball mover. These are flaws that need to be worked on. Acknowledging flaws should not be seen as negative they should be looked at as areas of improvement. Especially for the young like KP.

The problem with this is that the Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws. They don’t point it out to the players. If they don’t point it out how are they going to improve if they don’t work on it improvement will be futile.

His shooting got worse because of increased responsibility. There is an adjustment period there and he will need to improve of course. Look at his 3pt shooting. There's a significant improvement year over year. But he will get better. I expect him to play more in control after coming back from this injury. Long-term, it might help get his game under control a little bit.

His shooting got worse because he is taking bad shots and doesn’t understand passing. He doesn’t know how to pass out of the post.

blkexec
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2/14/2018  12:37 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

So you want not just some NBA players, you want All-stars or at minimum stars.
I am with you. I want this too.

I like how the Raptors built their team. No guy is perfect but the cumulative parts there and very very good. Can sustain injury from any player. They have a lot of guys who can handle the rock

Do Derozen and Lowry last as long in NY as they do Tor with the playoff performances they have produced in the past.

Everyone always wants the final result when it all comes together.

They pass the ball more now and have way better ball movement then in the past which they were Iso heavy. After Masi said something needs to change regarding Derozen ball jocking and chucking leading to a crushing defeat in last yrs playoffs. He bought in and the whole team followed and it has paid dividends so far this season.

They have pretty much adopted a Spurs model of defense and ball movement for high efficient shots. To go along with depth.

Everyone wants the final results of a good team, but nobody wants to go through the losing pains!

Maybe it's only a few of the loud fans that I'm talking about, and the rest of us understand.

"NO PAIN....NO GAIN"

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
Vmart
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2/14/2018  12:58 PM
fishmike wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Vmart wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

The Knicks haven’t had a well rounded player since Patrick Ewing. This team can’t get a superstar. This team invests in flawed players one after another just look at the players that come in. The Knicks are now invested in KP and no one can delude themselves into thinking he has no flaws he is extremely flawed. Look at the players the Knicks have now everyone one of them have crazy flaws.

This organization is a sad organization that is destined to fail. They don’t have a f’ing clue. This organization is f’ing around and will continue to do so. They don’t realize the players flaws that is a very big problem. They are just plugging players without a rhyme or reason.

Porzingis is as well-rounded as Ewing was at age 22. More in fact. He dominates both side of the ball at times. He is not perfect, but will improve. He is as well-rounded as any 22 year old in the league. The drop off this team has had without him says it all. Stop whining and just let things play out.

KP can get better but his shooting is getting worse and rebounding needs a lot of work. He can be a better ball mover. These are flaws that need to be worked on. Acknowledging flaws should not be seen as negative they should be looked at as areas of improvement. Especially for the young like KP.

The problem with this is that the Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws. They don’t point it out to the players. If they don’t point it out how are they going to improve if they don’t work on it improvement will be futile.

this is as made up as Shrek and Donkey. "Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws" I mean how are you quantifying that and are you talking about last 20 years? Last 4? Under new management? Do tell.

Sure seems like they are acquiring a lot of guys who's games they are looking to improve on. Burke started in the D league. The day THjr was signed they said they still expect him to improve as a player. They just brought in Mudiay. Vet guys like Lee and Kanter are having career years. Beasley is having his best season in many. Guys have been benched this season and brought back and they have played better.

There has been a lot of focus on improving players. I have no idea what your seeing and want to hear why you think that. The problem is the players arent very good right now, so its going to be a struggle on the court. Most everyone except the usual guy predicted that would be the case this season.

I quantified it by year of losses. Years of futility. Have they ever developed a player? Who was that player? Did he become a superstar? KP is the only one that can say in 18 years that He is that player flawed as he is. Superstar only time will tell if he can improve on his areas of weaknesses.

What gives you guys the faith in this organization. That you continually defend them. They have done nothing for the fans. They do nothing for their young players. That Willie move is indicative of the organization in a nut shell. Adding Mudiay when you have Ntlikina to develop and Burk already on the team what does that do for Ntlikina’s development.

HofstraBBall
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2/14/2018  1:06 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/14/2018  1:12 PM
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

Playing in the conference finals isnt close to competing?

How did their two stars play? Look at Boston. Why did Boston decide to change directions and use their stock pile? Did it work?

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
BigRedDog
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2/14/2018  1:30 PM
Vmart wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Vmart wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

The Knicks haven’t had a well rounded player since Patrick Ewing. This team can’t get a superstar. This team invests in flawed players one after another just look at the players that come in. The Knicks are now invested in KP and no one can delude themselves into thinking he has no flaws he is extremely flawed. Look at the players the Knicks have now everyone one of them have crazy flaws.

This organization is a sad organization that is destined to fail. They don’t have a f’ing clue. This organization is f’ing around and will continue to do so. They don’t realize the players flaws that is a very big problem. They are just plugging players without a rhyme or reason.

Porzingis is as well-rounded as Ewing was at age 22. More in fact. He dominates both side of the ball at times. He is not perfect, but will improve. He is as well-rounded as any 22 year old in the league. The drop off this team has had without him says it all. Stop whining and just let things play out.

KP can get better but his shooting is getting worse and rebounding needs a lot of work. He can be a better ball mover. These are flaws that need to be worked on. Acknowledging flaws should not be seen as negative they should be looked at as areas of improvement. Especially for the young like KP.

The problem with this is that the Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws. They don’t point it out to the players. If they don’t point it out how are they going to improve if they don’t work on it improvement will be futile.

this is as made up as Shrek and Donkey. "Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws" I mean how are you quantifying that and are you talking about last 20 years? Last 4? Under new management? Do tell.

Sure seems like they are acquiring a lot of guys who's games they are looking to improve on. Burke started in the D league. The day THjr was signed they said they still expect him to improve as a player. They just brought in Mudiay. Vet guys like Lee and Kanter are having career years. Beasley is having his best season in many. Guys have been benched this season and brought back and they have played better.

There has been a lot of focus on improving players. I have no idea what your seeing and want to hear why you think that. The problem is the players arent very good right now, so its going to be a struggle on the court. Most everyone except the usual guy predicted that would be the case this season.

I quantified it by year of losses. Years of futility. Have they ever developed a player? Who was that player? Did he become a superstar? KP is the only one that can say in 18 years that He is that player flawed as he is. Superstar only time will tell if he can improve on his areas of weaknesses.

What gives you guys the faith in this organization. That you continually defend them. They have done nothing for the fans. They do nothing for their young players. That Willie move is indicative of the organization in a nut shell. Adding Mudiay when you have Ntlikina to develop and Burk already on the team what does that do for Ntlikina’s development.

You can't rip the Knicks for getting Mudiay. Even if they are or are not happy with Frank the final result is getting more young, athletic talent on this team. He may or may not work out but the fact that you can get the 7th pick from a draft who is only 21 yrs old for nothing is a move that has to be applauded. Don't be so jaded by the Knicks history that you can't see a good move by them.

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
newyorknewyork
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2/14/2018  1:53 PM
fishmike wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

So you want not just some NBA players, you want All-stars or at minimum stars.
I am with you. I want this too.

I like how the Raptors built their team. No guy is perfect but the cumulative parts there and very very good. Can sustain injury from any player. They have a lot of guys who can handle the rock

Do Derozen and Lowry last as long in NY as they do Tor with the playoff performances they have produced in the past.

Everyone always wants the final result when it all comes together.

They pass the ball more now and have way better ball movement then in the past which they were Iso heavy. After Masi said something needs to change regarding Derozen ball jocking and chucking leading to a crushing defeat in last yrs playoffs. He bought in and the whole team followed and it has paid dividends so far this season.

They have pretty much adopted a Spurs model of defense and ball movement for high efficient shots. To go along with depth.

right... and not just last year. They took a good team who had (Ibaka aside) played together for years and made tweaks.

It's possible Casey would have gotten fired seasons ago for not making Derozen and Lowry better come playoff time.

newyorknewyork
Posts: 28000
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2/14/2018  1:54 PM
blkexec wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

So you want not just some NBA players, you want All-stars or at minimum stars.
I am with you. I want this too.

I like how the Raptors built their team. No guy is perfect but the cumulative parts there and very very good. Can sustain injury from any player. They have a lot of guys who can handle the rock

Do Derozen and Lowry last as long in NY as they do Tor with the playoff performances they have produced in the past.

Everyone always wants the final result when it all comes together.

They pass the ball more now and have way better ball movement then in the past which they were Iso heavy. After Masi said something needs to change regarding Derozen ball jocking and chucking leading to a crushing defeat in last yrs playoffs. He bought in and the whole team followed and it has paid dividends so far this season.

They have pretty much adopted a Spurs model of defense and ball movement for high efficient shots. To go along with depth.

Everyone wants the final results of a good team, but nobody wants to go through the losing pains!

Maybe it's only a few of the loud fans that I'm talking about, and the rest of us understand.

"NO PAIN....NO GAIN"

I like that. No pain....No gain!

djsunyc
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2/14/2018  2:16 PM
my "raptors mentioned on uk.com" alert just dinged me. :)

i could write a 15 paragraph article about the raptors and how the team was built but i don't think y'all care lol.

it's very simple and i apologize if i come off a bit harsh here but the knicks will never be good as long as dolan is the owner. he truly is the worst owner in the nba. well him and vivek.

there is no gm that is going to be able to come in here and run things the way ujiri was able to in toronto (or ainge in boston or buford/pop in san antonio). and anyone that carries that type of cred (like pop or ujiri or ainge) would never work for dolan. this idiot brought back mills lol. phil came here for the money. the dude didn't even do all the draft scouting trips.

it would take nothing more than pure luck to even get the knicks to mediocrity. that's real talk.

once you accept that, then you can alter your perceptions and redefine your fandom or do what i did and leave.

now, if you chose to stay then dissecting and scrutinizing a 19 year old (frank) makes almost zero logical sense. he was a project drafted from a foreign league. if he came in and made an impact then the knicks would've struck gold - which just isn't in the org's dna. even if you take a player like derozan, drafted as a project, and who uncharacteristically, became a much better player through hard work every year - there could be hope for frank but....even when demar entered the league he was a scorer coming out of college, not a defender.

imho, frank was a bad draft pick. not necessarily b/c he's a bad player but b/c in today's nba, you need guards/wings that can score. that at the very least would put you into the mediocrity zone. then how you flesh out around those scorers can take you to different levels. (and i'm talking about building a team w/o drafting a super duper star). look around the league - let's take portland as an example. two really high level scorers in the backcourt. they didn't do a great job building around them but you get a floor of a mediocre team out west. can also include the wizards in that discussion. then you take a team like the raptors who built excellently around them and you're talking a high level team.

that's why y'all should've picked dennis smith jr simply b/c he's a scorer and an aggressive offensive player. maybe in 5 years, frank is a better all around player but when building a team from scratch, you need the scorer first before a defender that may or may not develop offensively. smith still would've been the smarter pick in today's nba.

any team built w/o quality wing scorers will result in mediocrity being your ceiling. porzingis is a good player but look at a team like the pelicans with two stud bigs - even when healthy, their ceiling was 45 wins. pistons will still be about .500 with blake + deandre. knicks got melo but the proceeded to do almost everything wrong after that. only for 1 year did you build it somewhat logically and that was the 54 win season that you quickly dismantled lol.

hell even gsw took klay and steph in the drafts when rebuilding - two scorers. morey gave up what the could to land harden.

the knicks (and really any rebuilding team) have to go after scorers from the pg/g/sf position first and foremost or else you are doomed to build nothing more than a 45 max win team.

the little bullcr p deals for players like mudiay or picking up burke - i mean these are simply trivial moves that really won't accomplish anything or help the franchise in any real way. mudiay is a guy you look at when you need to shore up a bench spot. y'all need to discuss it here b/c that's what online internet forums are about but if you take a step back, you need to realize just how minor and insignificant these moves are.

look at the rest of the league. the only exception may be the spurs but that org is a different animal altogether.

with all that said and knowing who owns the knicks...mediocrity and 42-45 wins may be the high end realistic expectation - at least so most of y'all can keep your sanity.

fishmike
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2/14/2018  2:36 PM
blkexec wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

So you want not just some NBA players, you want All-stars or at minimum stars.
I am with you. I want this too.

I like how the Raptors built their team. No guy is perfect but the cumulative parts there and very very good. Can sustain injury from any player. They have a lot of guys who can handle the rock

Do Derozen and Lowry last as long in NY as they do Tor with the playoff performances they have produced in the past.

Everyone always wants the final result when it all comes together.

They pass the ball more now and have way better ball movement then in the past which they were Iso heavy. After Masi said something needs to change regarding Derozen ball jocking and chucking leading to a crushing defeat in last yrs playoffs. He bought in and the whole team followed and it has paid dividends so far this season.

They have pretty much adopted a Spurs model of defense and ball movement for high efficient shots. To go along with depth.

Everyone wants the final results of a good team, but nobody wants to go through the losing pains!

Maybe it's only a few of the loud fans that I'm talking about, and the rest of us understand.

"NO PAIN....NO GAIN"

well Knick fans have had pain for years.. which is why they believe they should be rewarded. Now. Today. How about now? No? Your fired. Lets get someone in here who knows how to win. Or build. Or smile. Or eat Twinkies.

I like the current direct of the team. A lot. I know its going to take time. Im good with that. The only thing this front office gets from this Knick fan is a mostly open mind mixed with some wait and see. Some are here to drop daily turds. Im still a fan of the team. This is also not more of the same. No FO for this team has ever said they were going to rebuild with youth. We will see if things remain Dolan free. If they do then Perry gets his shot.

I dont care if we suck. Culture needs to change. Teams that dont defend dont win. The me-first AAU babies can take a hike. Team first. Better together on both sides of the ball.

fishmike
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2/14/2018  2:45 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

Playing in the conference finals isnt close to competing?

How did their two stars play? Look at Boston. Why did Boston decide to change directions and use their stock pile? Did it work?

you cant answer that question? The #1 thing is they we not giving Isiaih Thomas a max contract, despite playing his way into that zone the year before his contract year. He's an a-hole and cant guard anyone. They had 4 of the NBA's better defenders on the floor with him and teams still found ways to go right at him. So what do you think happened? They were going to move him. Kyrie demands a trade. Guess who is the highest bidder with his treasure chest of picks and good contracts.

What does that have to do with the Knicks?

HofstraBBall
Posts: 22742
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2/14/2018  3:02 PM
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

Playing in the conference finals isnt close to competing?

How did their two stars play? Look at Boston. Why did Boston decide to change directions and use their stock pile? Did it work?

you cant answer that question? The #1 thing is they we not giving Isiaih Thomas a max contract, despite playing his way into that zone the year before his contract year. He's an a-hole and cant guard anyone. They had 4 of the NBA's better defenders on the floor with him and teams still found ways to go right at him. So what do you think happened? They were going to move him. Kyrie demands a trade. Guess who is the highest bidder with his treasure chest of picks and good contracts.

What does that have to do with the Knicks?

Did you read my post above? It speaks to what I think the Knicks should do. Stockpile picks and use them for a top tier player. (What Boston did) Not count on all our draft picks to turn into something and hope we can pick up a whole bunch of solid role players. (What Raptors have done) Next move for Toronto, IMO, will be to pick up ONE more elite player. Or they will consistently bow out of the play offs. Let alone be able to beat a Super Team.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
fishmike
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2/14/2018  3:17 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

Playing in the conference finals isnt close to competing?

How did their two stars play? Look at Boston. Why did Boston decide to change directions and use their stock pile? Did it work?

you cant answer that question? The #1 thing is they we not giving Isiaih Thomas a max contract, despite playing his way into that zone the year before his contract year. He's an a-hole and cant guard anyone. They had 4 of the NBA's better defenders on the floor with him and teams still found ways to go right at him. So what do you think happened? They were going to move him. Kyrie demands a trade. Guess who is the highest bidder with his treasure chest of picks and good contracts.

What does that have to do with the Knicks?

Did you read my post above? It speaks to what I think the Knicks should do. Stockpile picks and use them for a top tier player. (What Boston did) Not count on all our draft picks to turn into something and hope we can pick up a whole bunch of solid role players. (What Raptors have done) Next move for Toronto, IMO, will be to pick up ONE more elite player. Or they will consistently bow out of the play offs. Let alone be able to beat a Super Team.

sure. How do you stockpile picks when you only get one a year? No team is making the kind of trade Boston got. Never again. FRP dont get traded like that anymore. Boston's situation can not be replicated.

That being said it would appear that this org is trying to accomplish something similar to what your are talking about, at least in terms of developing and collecting young players.

Acquire picks sounds great. Whats your plan?

HofstraBBall
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2/14/2018  4:40 PM
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

Playing in the conference finals isnt close to competing?

How did their two stars play? Look at Boston. Why did Boston decide to change directions and use their stock pile? Did it work?

you cant answer that question? The #1 thing is they we not giving Isiaih Thomas a max contract, despite playing his way into that zone the year before his contract year. He's an a-hole and cant guard anyone. They had 4 of the NBA's better defenders on the floor with him and teams still found ways to go right at him. So what do you think happened? They were going to move him. Kyrie demands a trade. Guess who is the highest bidder with his treasure chest of picks and good contracts.

What does that have to do with the Knicks?

Did you read my post above? It speaks to what I think the Knicks should do. Stockpile picks and use them for a top tier player. (What Boston did) Not count on all our draft picks to turn into something and hope we can pick up a whole bunch of solid role players. (What Raptors have done) Next move for Toronto, IMO, will be to pick up ONE more elite player. Or they will consistently bow out of the play offs. Let alone be able to beat a Super Team.

sure. How do you stockpile picks when you only get one a year? No team is making the kind of trade Boston got. Never again. FRP dont get traded like that anymore. Boston's situation can not be replicated.

That being said it would appear that this org is trying to accomplish something similar to what your are talking about, at least in terms of developing and collecting young players.

Acquire picks sounds great. Whats your plan?

Think Mudiay fits as an asset. Specially if he progresses. Trading Lee may return some future assets. Surprising KO did not have anyone interested. Kanter may return some assets next year. If he continues his good play. Timmy may gauge some interest in 2 years? Hopefully Frank turns into something. All questions. Safe to say I don't see any conference finals in our near future. But some around here didn't think that was so special in 2012. Feels better to be rebuilding without any immediate sight of a winning team.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
CrushAlot
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2/14/2018  5:21 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
Vmart wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Vmart wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

The Knicks haven’t had a well rounded player since Patrick Ewing. This team can’t get a superstar. This team invests in flawed players one after another just look at the players that come in. The Knicks are now invested in KP and no one can delude themselves into thinking he has no flaws he is extremely flawed. Look at the players the Knicks have now everyone one of them have crazy flaws.

This organization is a sad organization that is destined to fail. They don’t have a f’ing clue. This organization is f’ing around and will continue to do so. They don’t realize the players flaws that is a very big problem. They are just plugging players without a rhyme or reason.

Porzingis is as well-rounded as Ewing was at age 22. More in fact. He dominates both side of the ball at times. He is not perfect, but will improve. He is as well-rounded as any 22 year old in the league. The drop off this team has had without him says it all. Stop whining and just let things play out.

KP can get better but his shooting is getting worse and rebounding needs a lot of work. He can be a better ball mover. These are flaws that need to be worked on. Acknowledging flaws should not be seen as negative they should be looked at as areas of improvement. Especially for the young like KP.

The problem with this is that the Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws. They don’t point it out to the players. If they don’t point it out how are they going to improve if they don’t work on it improvement will be futile.

this is as made up as Shrek and Donkey. "Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws" I mean how are you quantifying that and are you talking about last 20 years? Last 4? Under new management? Do tell.

Sure seems like they are acquiring a lot of guys who's games they are looking to improve on. Burke started in the D league. The day THjr was signed they said they still expect him to improve as a player. They just brought in Mudiay. Vet guys like Lee and Kanter are having career years. Beasley is having his best season in many. Guys have been benched this season and brought back and they have played better.

There has been a lot of focus on improving players. I have no idea what your seeing and want to hear why you think that. The problem is the players arent very good right now, so its going to be a struggle on the court. Most everyone except the usual guy predicted that would be the case this season.

I quantified it by year of losses. Years of futility. Have they ever developed a player? Who was that player? Did he become a superstar? KP is the only one that can say in 18 years that He is that player flawed as he is. Superstar only time will tell if he can improve on his areas of weaknesses.

What gives you guys the faith in this organization. That you continually defend them. They have done nothing for the fans. They do nothing for their young players. That Willie move is indicative of the organization in a nut shell. Adding Mudiay when you have Ntlikina to develop and Burk already on the team what does that do for Ntlikina’s development.

You can't rip the Knicks for getting Mudiay. Even if they are or are not happy with Frank the final result is getting more young, athletic talent on this team. He may or may not work out but the fact that you can get the 7th pick from a draft who is only 21 yrs old for nothing is a move that has to be applauded. Don't be so jaded by the Knicks history that you can't see a good move by them.

I agree. You have to take that chance. Also, you have had 2/3 of a season to see Frank and know his best position might not be starting point guard. Nothing that has happened on the court gives me the impression the Knicks are not trying to develop Frank.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
Do not want incomplete inconsistent basketball players anymore

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