Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

The Knicks haven’t had a well rounded player since Patrick Ewing. This team can’t get a superstar. This team invests in flawed players one after another just look at the players that come in. The Knicks are now invested in KP and no one can delude themselves into thinking he has no flaws he is extremely flawed. Look at the players the Knicks have now everyone one of them have crazy flaws.

This organization is a sad organization that is destined to fail. They don’t have a f’ing clue. This organization is f’ing around and will continue to do so. They don’t realize the players flaws that is a very big problem. They are just plugging players without a rhyme or reason.

Porzingis is as well-rounded as Ewing was at age 22. More in fact. He dominates both side of the ball at times. He is not perfect, but will improve. He is as well-rounded as any 22 year old in the league. The drop off this team has had without him says it all. Stop whining and just let things play out.

KP can get better but his shooting is getting worse and rebounding needs a lot of work. He can be a better ball mover. These are flaws that need to be worked on. Acknowledging flaws should not be seen as negative they should be looked at as areas of improvement. Especially for the young like KP.

The problem with this is that the Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws. They don’t point it out to the players. If they don’t point it out how are they going to improve if they don’t work on it improvement will be futile.

Sure seems like they are acquiring a lot of guys who's games they are looking to improve on. Burke started in the D league. The day THjr was signed they said they still expect him to improve as a player. They just brought in Mudiay. Vet guys like Lee and Kanter are having career years. Beasley is having his best season in many. Guys have been benched this season and brought back and they have played better.

There has been a lot of focus on improving players. I have no idea what your seeing and want to hear why you think that. The problem is the players arent very good right now, so its going to be a struggle on the court. Most everyone except the usual guy predicted that would be the case this season.

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

The Knicks haven’t had a well rounded player since Patrick Ewing. This team can’t get a superstar. This team invests in flawed players one after another just look at the players that come in. The Knicks are now invested in KP and no one can delude themselves into thinking he has no flaws he is extremely flawed. Look at the players the Knicks have now everyone one of them have crazy flaws.

This organization is a sad organization that is destined to fail. They don’t have a f’ing clue. This organization is f’ing around and will continue to do so. They don’t realize the players flaws that is a very big problem. They are just plugging players without a rhyme or reason.

Porzingis is as well-rounded as Ewing was at age 22. More in fact. He dominates both side of the ball at times. He is not perfect, but will improve. He is as well-rounded as any 22 year old in the league. The drop off this team has had without him says it all. Stop whining and just let things play out.

KP can get better but his shooting is getting worse and rebounding needs a lot of work. He can be a better ball mover. These are flaws that need to be worked on. Acknowledging flaws should not be seen as negative they should be looked at as areas of improvement. Especially for the young like KP.

The problem with this is that the Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws. They don’t point it out to the players. If they don’t point it out how are they going to improve if they don’t work on it improvement will be futile.

His shooting got worse because of increased responsibility. There is an adjustment period there and he will need to improve of course. Look at his 3pt shooting. There's a significant improvement year over year. But he will get better. I expect him to play more in control after coming back from this injury. Long-term, it might help get his game under control a little bit.

His shooting got worse because he is taking bad shots and doesn’t understand passing. He doesn’t know how to pass out of the post.

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

The Knicks haven’t had a well rounded player since Patrick Ewing. This team can’t get a superstar. This team invests in flawed players one after another just look at the players that come in. The Knicks are now invested in KP and no one can delude themselves into thinking he has no flaws he is extremely flawed. Look at the players the Knicks have now everyone one of them have crazy flaws.

This organization is a sad organization that is destined to fail. They don’t have a f’ing clue. This organization is f’ing around and will continue to do so. They don’t realize the players flaws that is a very big problem. They are just plugging players without a rhyme or reason.

Porzingis is as well-rounded as Ewing was at age 22. More in fact. He dominates both side of the ball at times. He is not perfect, but will improve. He is as well-rounded as any 22 year old in the league. The drop off this team has had without him says it all. Stop whining and just let things play out.

KP can get better but his shooting is getting worse and rebounding needs a lot of work. He can be a better ball mover. These are flaws that need to be worked on. Acknowledging flaws should not be seen as negative they should be looked at as areas of improvement. Especially for the young like KP.

The problem with this is that the Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws. They don’t point it out to the players. If they don’t point it out how are they going to improve if they don’t work on it improvement will be futile.

this is as made up as Shrek and Donkey. "Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws" I mean how are you quantifying that and are you talking about last 20 years? Last 4? Under new management? Do tell.

Sure seems like they are acquiring a lot of guys who's games they are looking to improve on. Burke started in the D league. The day THjr was signed they said they still expect him to improve as a player. They just brought in Mudiay. Vet guys like Lee and Kanter are having career years. Beasley is having his best season in many. Guys have been benched this season and brought back and they have played better.

There has been a lot of focus on improving players. I have no idea what your seeing and want to hear why you think that. The problem is the players arent very good right now, so its going to be a struggle on the court. Most everyone except the usual guy predicted that would be the case this season.

I quantified it by year of losses. Years of futility. Have they ever developed a player? Who was that player? Did he become a superstar? KP is the only one that can say in 18 years that He is that player flawed as he is. Superstar only time will tell if he can improve on his areas of weaknesses.

What gives you guys the faith in this organization. That you continually defend them. They have done nothing for the fans. They do nothing for their young players. That Willie move is indicative of the organization in a nut shell. Adding Mudiay when you have Ntlikina to develop and Burk already on the team what does that do for Ntlikina’s development.

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

The Knicks haven’t had a well rounded player since Patrick Ewing. This team can’t get a superstar. This team invests in flawed players one after another just look at the players that come in. The Knicks are now invested in KP and no one can delude themselves into thinking he has no flaws he is extremely flawed. Look at the players the Knicks have now everyone one of them have crazy flaws.

This organization is a sad organization that is destined to fail. They don’t have a f’ing clue. This organization is f’ing around and will continue to do so. They don’t realize the players flaws that is a very big problem. They are just plugging players without a rhyme or reason.

Porzingis is as well-rounded as Ewing was at age 22. More in fact. He dominates both side of the ball at times. He is not perfect, but will improve. He is as well-rounded as any 22 year old in the league. The drop off this team has had without him says it all. Stop whining and just let things play out.

KP can get better but his shooting is getting worse and rebounding needs a lot of work. He can be a better ball mover. These are flaws that need to be worked on. Acknowledging flaws should not be seen as negative they should be looked at as areas of improvement. Especially for the young like KP.

The problem with this is that the Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws. They don’t point it out to the players. If they don’t point it out how are they going to improve if they don’t work on it improvement will be futile.

this is as made up as Shrek and Donkey. "Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws" I mean how are you quantifying that and are you talking about last 20 years? Last 4? Under new management? Do tell.

Sure seems like they are acquiring a lot of guys who's games they are looking to improve on. Burke started in the D league. The day THjr was signed they said they still expect him to improve as a player. They just brought in Mudiay. Vet guys like Lee and Kanter are having career years. Beasley is having his best season in many. Guys have been benched this season and brought back and they have played better.

There has been a lot of focus on improving players. I have no idea what your seeing and want to hear why you think that. The problem is the players arent very good right now, so its going to be a struggle on the court. Most everyone except the usual guy predicted that would be the case this season.

I quantified it by year of losses. Years of futility. Have they ever developed a player? Who was that player? Did he become a superstar? KP is the only one that can say in 18 years that He is that player flawed as he is. Superstar only time will tell if he can improve on his areas of weaknesses.

What gives you guys the faith in this organization. That you continually defend them. They have done nothing for the fans. They do nothing for their young players. That Willie move is indicative of the organization in a nut shell. Adding Mudiay when you have Ntlikina to develop and Burk already on the team what does that do for Ntlikina’s development.

You can't rip the Knicks for getting Mudiay. Even if they are or are not happy with Frank the final result is getting more young, athletic talent on this team. He may or may not work out but the fact that you can get the 7th pick from a draft who is only 21 yrs old for nothing is a move that has to be applauded. Don't be so jaded by the Knicks history that you can't see a good move by them.

blkexec wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

So you want not just some NBA players, you want All-stars or at minimum stars.
I am with you. I want this too.

I like how the Raptors built their team. No guy is perfect but the cumulative parts there and very very good. Can sustain injury from any player. They have a lot of guys who can handle the rock

Do Derozen and Lowry last as long in NY as they do Tor with the playoff performances they have produced in the past.

Everyone always wants the final result when it all comes together.

They pass the ball more now and have way better ball movement then in the past which they were Iso heavy. After Masi said something needs to change regarding Derozen ball jocking and chucking leading to a crushing defeat in last yrs playoffs. He bought in and the whole team followed and it has paid dividends so far this season.

They have pretty much adopted a Spurs model of defense and ball movement for high efficient shots. To go along with depth.

Everyone wants the final results of a good team, but nobody wants to go through the losing pains!

Maybe it's only a few of the loud fans that I'm talking about, and the rest of us understand.

"NO PAIN....NO GAIN"

I like that. No pain....No gain!

blkexec wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

arkrud wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

So you want not just some NBA players, you want All-stars or at minimum stars.
I am with you. I want this too.

I like how the Raptors built their team. No guy is perfect but the cumulative parts there and very very good. Can sustain injury from any player. They have a lot of guys who can handle the rock

Do Derozen and Lowry last as long in NY as they do Tor with the playoff performances they have produced in the past.

Everyone always wants the final result when it all comes together.

They pass the ball more now and have way better ball movement then in the past which they were Iso heavy. After Masi said something needs to change regarding Derozen ball jocking and chucking leading to a crushing defeat in last yrs playoffs. He bought in and the whole team followed and it has paid dividends so far this season.

They have pretty much adopted a Spurs model of defense and ball movement for high efficient shots. To go along with depth.

Everyone wants the final results of a good team, but nobody wants to go through the losing pains!

Maybe it's only a few of the loud fans that I'm talking about, and the rest of us understand.

"NO PAIN....NO GAIN"

I like the current direct of the team. A lot. I know its going to take time. Im good with that. The only thing this front office gets from this Knick fan is a mostly open mind mixed with some wait and see. Some are here to drop daily turds. Im still a fan of the team. This is also not more of the same. No FO for this team has ever said they were going to rebuild with youth. We will see if things remain Dolan free. If they do then Perry gets his shot.

I dont care if we suck. Culture needs to change. Teams that dont defend dont win. The me-first AAU babies can take a hike. Team first. Better together on both sides of the ball.

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

Playing in the conference finals isnt close to competing?

How did their two stars play? Look at Boston. Why did Boston decide to change directions and use their stock pile? Did it work?

you cant answer that question? The #1 thing is they we not giving Isiaih Thomas a max contract, despite playing his way into that zone the year before his contract year. He's an a-hole and cant guard anyone. They had 4 of the NBA's better defenders on the floor with him and teams still found ways to go right at him. So what do you think happened? They were going to move him. Kyrie demands a trade. Guess who is the highest bidder with his treasure chest of picks and good contracts.

What does that have to do with the Knicks?

Did you read my post above? It speaks to what I think the Knicks should do. Stockpile picks and use them for a top tier player. (What Boston did) Not count on all our draft picks to turn into something and hope we can pick up a whole bunch of solid role players. (What Raptors have done) Next move for Toronto, IMO, will be to pick up ONE more elite player. Or they will consistently bow out of the play offs. Let alone be able to beat a Super Team.

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

Playing in the conference finals isnt close to competing?

How did their two stars play? Look at Boston. Why did Boston decide to change directions and use their stock pile? Did it work?

you cant answer that question? The #1 thing is they we not giving Isiaih Thomas a max contract, despite playing his way into that zone the year before his contract year. He's an a-hole and cant guard anyone. They had 4 of the NBA's better defenders on the floor with him and teams still found ways to go right at him. So what do you think happened? They were going to move him. Kyrie demands a trade. Guess who is the highest bidder with his treasure chest of picks and good contracts.

What does that have to do with the Knicks?

Did you read my post above? It speaks to what I think the Knicks should do. Stockpile picks and use them for a top tier player. (What Boston did) Not count on all our draft picks to turn into something and hope we can pick up a whole bunch of solid role players. (What Raptors have done) Next move for Toronto, IMO, will be to pick up ONE more elite player. Or they will consistently bow out of the play offs. Let alone be able to beat a Super Team.

sure. How do you stockpile picks when you only get one a year? No team is making the kind of trade Boston got. Never again. FRP dont get traded like that anymore. Boston's situation can not be replicated.

That being said it would appear that this org is trying to accomplish something similar to what your are talking about, at least in terms of developing and collecting young players.

Acquire picks sounds great. Whats your plan?

Think Mudiay fits as an asset. Specially if he progresses. Trading Lee may return some future assets. Surprising KO did not have anyone interested. Kanter may return some assets next year. If he continues his good play. Timmy may gauge some interest in 2 years? Hopefully Frank turns into something. All questions. Safe to say I don't see any conference finals in our near future. But some around here didn't think that was so special in 2012. Feels better to be rebuilding without any immediate sight of a winning team.