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Do not want incomplete inconsistent basketball players anymore
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BRIGGS
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2/14/2018  8:40 AM
We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

AUTOADVERT
jrodmc
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2/14/2018  9:01 AM
We also don't want 1st round draft picks that get hurt.
We also don't want players who will play on contracts that are not cap-friendly and not economically efficient, per 36 minutes.
We also don't want players who want NTC's.
We also don't want players who don't overachieve and don't overperform.


Threads like this are so much more fun than trying to watch clips of Bulgarian league prospects and high school AAU clips BRIGGS!

Keep em coming!

Hope is a good thing. And nothing good ever dies, but it just may not make the playoffs.
BRIGGS
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2/14/2018  9:14 AM
jrodmc wrote:We also don't want 1st round draft picks that get hurt.
We also don't want players who will play on contracts that are not cap-friendly and not economically efficient, per 36 minutes.
We also don't want players who want NTC's.
We also don't want players who don't overachieve and don't overperform.


Threads like this are so much more fun than trying to watch clips of Bulgarian league prospects and high school AAU clips BRIGGS!

Keep em coming!

Keep em coming? The Knicks have scked for 20 years? The most money spent per win in the history of sports. And what does J Dolan do--retread the management so he can keep making his own calls that have been -well very poor. Ripped off the fan for a long time now--just a running scam.

arkrud
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2/14/2018  9:31 AM
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

So you want not just some NBA players, you want All-stars or at minimum stars.
I am with you. I want this too.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
BRIGGS
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2/14/2018  10:15 AM
arkrud wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

So you want not just some NBA players, you want All-stars or at minimum stars.
I am with you. I want this too.

I like how the Raptors built their team. No guy is perfect but the cumulative parts there and very very good. Can sustain injury from any player. They have a lot of guys who can handle the rock

fishmike
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2/14/2018  10:24 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

So you want not just some NBA players, you want All-stars or at minimum stars.
I am with you. I want this too.

I like how the Raptors built their team. No guy is perfect but the cumulative parts there and very very good. Can sustain injury from any player. They have a lot of guys who can handle the rock

they also play defense top to bottom first and foremost. TOR has the 3rd ranked defense in the league. You do understand that is as big a part of their success as anything yea? Do you??
GustavBahler
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2/14/2018  10:33 AM
.....now Slump free!

Would be nice if that were true. Guessing that creating a more stable roster will help keep some players from going off the rails. Build a comfort level.

HofstraBBall
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2/14/2018  10:48 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/14/2018  10:51 AM
fishmike wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

So you want not just some NBA players, you want All-stars or at minimum stars.
I am with you. I want this too.

I like how the Raptors built their team. No guy is perfect but the cumulative parts there and very very good. Can sustain injury from any player. They have a lot of guys who can handle the rock

they also play defense top to bottom first and foremost. TOR has the 3rd ranked defense in the league. You do understand that is as big a part of their success as anything yea? Do you??

Lets not ignore they have the second best bench in the league. Agree that the Raptors have a deep roster. However, who cares? At the end of the year there are 29 teams, including the Raptors, who are by definition a failure. Dont think Raptor fans feel better because they play decent defense. In case anyone is paying attention, the teams winning chips are doing so because they formed "Super Teams". We can dream about building an "Old School" tough team, that plays hard defense, through the draft and "Reasonable contracts" but its just not going to happen. And as seen, it is nearly impossible. The only way we will ever win a chip is to put together top tier established NBA talent. And yes, PAY. Unfortunately, NY, is no longer as attractive as it once was nor is it the only market that can pay. specially with the dysfunction that has been created in recent years. Unfortunately, the forecast around here is just for a lot of bull**** talk on the next great second rounder in the draft and which All Star, who wont come here, would be a great fit.

"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
Nalod
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2/14/2018  10:48 AM
They have the same coach for 6 years.
Masai has been there a few years now.
Did not change the coach when he was hired.
So we want "continuity" after a period of success, but change it the phuch up when things are not going well.
First third of the season was awesome. Second, less than. So lets blow it up.
Lets keep blowing it up over and over.
There is frustration and rants. That's fine, but at some point its just sounds like whining.
"I want allstars!!!"
No shyt.
"I want to win!!"
No shyt!
I want a new owner with big bucks but will leave the team alone!
No shyt. We might have that now.
I want guys that never get hurt!
No shyt.
How do you draft better? Start with having picks. 1st three years of the cultural revolution had just one 1st round.
Had to pay for the sins of the past.
We can do this all day. Then Knicks1248 and his "I see the end result of the underlying problems but like to only talk about the symptoms".
Briggs, same thing, all those great ideas but its the application of those ideas.
Hardaway in slump and now he is a bust. Hardaway did well and it was genious. This biplorCoaster is the fans right, but its not that easy.
Nalod prescribes that this stuff is not easy and it takes time to fix. No doubt mistakes have been made in the last three years. Noah was a bit easy to see coming. Its astonishing how bad DRose has fallen. Not a big price for us. We tried.
Its astonishing that Melo would stay, resign, pledge his allegiance to the culture ("Sacrifice his game, use his rolodex to recruit") and in return get a NTC only to not do those things. Its astonishing that PHil, the best coach in the history of the league would be so inept as an executive.
.....Astonishing we actually got lucky in the draft and got KP. Equally as bad that our unicorn got hurt. Frank? We measure his career as a 19 year old based on two others who were drafted after him. I understand the nature of comparison but to fully reconcile his whole career trajectory and try to sell it to others is a real trip.
"Oh woe is me the poor citizen of Mecca, we deserve better!!!".
Yes we do. Maybe one day. But blowing it up over and over feels good. But its activity, not change.
Are we on the right track? I think what was not fully recognized was the dysfunction that was Phil. He was better than Dolan's interference (Bargnani trade) so those days are gone.
We have picks, we have some yoot. Things are different. It still hurt though.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
Nalod
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2/14/2018  10:51 AM
Raptors cut bait with Bargnani after a few years.
That was a big turning point. They cannot attract free agents so they do other things.
We are starphuchers, we want stars. Admit it folks, you like the glitz of a star.
We have a boring 19 year old who plays great defense and some of you want him gone because he has yet to develop his offense.
We had melo, a HOF prolific scorer yet he alone was not able to carry the team. Team never was able to build with lack of picks.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
HofstraBBall
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2/14/2018  10:59 AM
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
Nalod
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2/14/2018  11:02 AM
I think Hardaway will be OK. He thinks he is "Just 19"!
You don't show a fool a job half done!
fishmike
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2/14/2018  11:17 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

Playing in the conference finals isnt close to competing?
Vmart
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2/14/2018  11:36 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

The Knicks haven’t had a well rounded player since Patrick Ewing. This team can’t get a superstar. This team invests in flawed players one after another just look at the players that come in. The Knicks are now invested in KP and no one can delude themselves into thinking he has no flaws he is extremely flawed. Look at the players the Knicks have now everyone one of them have crazy flaws.

This organization is a sad organization that is destined to fail. They don’t have a f’ing clue. This organization is f’ing around and will continue to do so. They don’t realize the players flaws that is a very big problem. They are just plugging players without a rhyme or reason.

Knixkik
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2/14/2018  11:39 AM
Vmart wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

The Knicks haven’t had a well rounded player since Patrick Ewing. This team can’t get a superstar. This team invests in flawed players one after another just look at the players that come in. The Knicks are now invested in KP and no one can delude themselves into thinking he has no flaws he is extremely flawed. Look at the players the Knicks have now everyone one of them have crazy flaws.

This organization is a sad organization that is destined to fail. They don’t have a f’ing clue. This organization is f’ing around and will continue to do so. They don’t realize the players flaws that is a very big problem. They are just plugging players without a rhyme or reason.

Porzingis is as well-rounded as Ewing was at age 22. More in fact. He dominates both side of the ball at times. He is not perfect, but will improve. He is as well-rounded as any 22 year old in the league. The drop off this team has had without him says it all. Stop whining and just let things play out.

newyorknewyork
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2/14/2018  11:53 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

So you want not just some NBA players, you want All-stars or at minimum stars.
I am with you. I want this too.

I like how the Raptors built their team. No guy is perfect but the cumulative parts there and very very good. Can sustain injury from any player. They have a lot of guys who can handle the rock

Do Derozen and Lowry last as long in NY as they do Tor with the playoff performances they have produced in the past.

Everyone always wants the final result when it all comes together.

They pass the ball more now and have way better ball movement then in the past which they were Iso heavy. After Masi said something needs to change regarding Derozen ball jocking and chucking leading to a crushing defeat in last yrs playoffs. He bought in and the whole team followed and it has paid dividends so far this season.

They have pretty much adopted a Spurs model of defense and ball movement for high efficient shots. To go along with depth.

fishmike
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2/14/2018  12:04 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
arkrud wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

So you want not just some NBA players, you want All-stars or at minimum stars.
I am with you. I want this too.

I like how the Raptors built their team. No guy is perfect but the cumulative parts there and very very good. Can sustain injury from any player. They have a lot of guys who can handle the rock

Do Derozen and Lowry last as long in NY as they do Tor with the playoff performances they have produced in the past.

Everyone always wants the final result when it all comes together.

They pass the ball more now and have way better ball movement then in the past which they were Iso heavy. After Masi said something needs to change regarding Derozen ball jocking and chucking leading to a crushing defeat in last yrs playoffs. He bought in and the whole team followed and it has paid dividends so far this season.

They have pretty much adopted a Spurs model of defense and ball movement for high efficient shots. To go along with depth.

right... and not just last year. They took a good team who had (Ibaka aside) played together for years and made tweaks.
Vmart
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2/14/2018  12:21 PM
Knixkik wrote:
Vmart wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

The Knicks haven’t had a well rounded player since Patrick Ewing. This team can’t get a superstar. This team invests in flawed players one after another just look at the players that come in. The Knicks are now invested in KP and no one can delude themselves into thinking he has no flaws he is extremely flawed. Look at the players the Knicks have now everyone one of them have crazy flaws.

This organization is a sad organization that is destined to fail. They don’t have a f’ing clue. This organization is f’ing around and will continue to do so. They don’t realize the players flaws that is a very big problem. They are just plugging players without a rhyme or reason.

Porzingis is as well-rounded as Ewing was at age 22. More in fact. He dominates both side of the ball at times. He is not perfect, but will improve. He is as well-rounded as any 22 year old in the league. The drop off this team has had without him says it all. Stop whining and just let things play out.

KP can get better but his shooting is getting worse and rebounding needs a lot of work. He can be a better ball mover. These are flaws that need to be worked on. Acknowledging flaws should not be seen as negative they should be looked at as areas of improvement. Especially for the young like KP.

The problem with this is that the Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws. They don’t point it out to the players. If they don’t point it out how are they going to improve if they don’t work on it improvement will be futile.

Knixkik
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2/14/2018  12:29 PM
Vmart wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Vmart wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:We want guys who are smart can handle the ball dribble pass and shoot it with a nice consistency. Were just throwing out horseshoes with Hardaway Mudiay etc.. and hoping they have an epiphany.

Also we need a PG like Van Fleet or MccOnnell on this teams second unit. Feisty smart well rounded high Iq--able to step in to start or play 25 minutes every night consistently. Maybe not NBA starters but IMPORTANT pieces

Whats funny is that sixer fans are probably calling for a better back up PG. Ofcourse any team would like 14 well rounded players on the team. But which team is giving those players away for cheap?

Think the best course is to keep stock piling assets and use them, eventually, to acquire a top tier player. (ie. Boston). They had all these so called "Core" pieces that did not get them any closer to competing until they used some of those assets to get a player like Irving. The thing I would stay away from is paying average guys like Timmy, Kanter big money. Would rather use that for a top tier player, like Irving. We have seen with Beasley, Mo Williams, Evans, etc that there are cheap options that can contribute at the same level.

The Knicks haven’t had a well rounded player since Patrick Ewing. This team can’t get a superstar. This team invests in flawed players one after another just look at the players that come in. The Knicks are now invested in KP and no one can delude themselves into thinking he has no flaws he is extremely flawed. Look at the players the Knicks have now everyone one of them have crazy flaws.

This organization is a sad organization that is destined to fail. They don’t have a f’ing clue. This organization is f’ing around and will continue to do so. They don’t realize the players flaws that is a very big problem. They are just plugging players without a rhyme or reason.

Porzingis is as well-rounded as Ewing was at age 22. More in fact. He dominates both side of the ball at times. He is not perfect, but will improve. He is as well-rounded as any 22 year old in the league. The drop off this team has had without him says it all. Stop whining and just let things play out.

KP can get better but his shooting is getting worse and rebounding needs a lot of work. He can be a better ball mover. These are flaws that need to be worked on. Acknowledging flaws should not be seen as negative they should be looked at as areas of improvement. Especially for the young like KP.

The problem with this is that the Knicks as an organization don’t try to improve on the flaws. They don’t point it out to the players. If they don’t point it out how are they going to improve if they don’t work on it improvement will be futile.

His shooting got worse because of increased responsibility. There is an adjustment period there and he will need to improve of course. Look at his 3pt shooting. There's a significant improvement year over year. But he will get better. I expect him to play more in control after coming back from this injury. Long-term, it might help get his game under control a little bit.

blkexec
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2/14/2018  12:33 PM
Nalod wrote:They have the same coach for 6 years.
Masai has been there a few years now.
Did not change the coach when he was hired.
So we want "continuity" after a period of success, but change it the phuch up when things are not going well.
First third of the season was awesome. Second, less than. So lets blow it up.
Lets keep blowing it up over and over.
There is frustration and rants. That's fine, but at some point its just sounds like whining.
"I want allstars!!!"
No shyt.
"I want to win!!"
No shyt!
I want a new owner with big bucks but will leave the team alone!
No shyt. We might have that now.
I want guys that never get hurt!
No shyt.
How do you draft better? Start with having picks. 1st three years of the cultural revolution had just one 1st round.
Had to pay for the sins of the past.
We can do this all day. Then Knicks1248 and his "I see the end result of the underlying problems but like to only talk about the symptoms".
Briggs, same thing, all those great ideas but its the application of those ideas.
Hardaway in slump and now he is a bust. Hardaway did well and it was genious. This biplorCoaster is the fans right, but its not that easy.
Nalod prescribes that this stuff is not easy and it takes time to fix. No doubt mistakes have been made in the last three years. Noah was a bit easy to see coming. Its astonishing how bad DRose has fallen. Not a big price for us. We tried.
Its astonishing that Melo would stay, resign, pledge his allegiance to the culture ("Sacrifice his game, use his rolodex to recruit") and in return get a NTC only to not do those things. Its astonishing that PHil, the best coach in the history of the league would be so inept as an executive.
.....Astonishing we actually got lucky in the draft and got KP. Equally as bad that our unicorn got hurt. Frank? We measure his career as a 19 year old based on two others who were drafted after him. I understand the nature of comparison but to fully reconcile his whole career trajectory and try to sell it to others is a real trip.
"Oh woe is me the poor citizen of Mecca, we deserve better!!!".
Yes we do. Maybe one day. But blowing it up over and over feels good. But its activity, not change.
Are we on the right track? I think what was not fully recognized was the dysfunction that was Phil. He was better than Dolan's interference (Bargnani trade) so those days are gone.
We have picks, we have some yoot. Things are different. It still hurt though.

The highlighted part is why I created my signature comparing knick fans and babies.

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
Do not want incomplete inconsistent basketball players anymore

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