BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

martin wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

GrandDesign wrote:19 year olds, dude.

If he's 19 and can't play then he belongs back in France on the bench just like he was last year

Eny, this is what a rebuild with a very young player looks like. Get used to it. Sometimes they have great games, lots of times they stink.

this

That's not fair. Nobody else gets a pass but Frank does? Guy's were saying Mudiay sucked and wasn't a NBA player at 19. That he was force fed minutes....a bunch of wild ****... but all that talk is actually what is happening with Frank and were not allowed to say that? That's ridiculous.

Frank is young and I believe he can get better obviously.... but I can't give him that because posters here aren't giving everyone the same benifit of doubt.

No one is really targeting Mudiay. My point is that he had a horrendous rookie year and Denver fans gave him a pass. He made some improvements, which is to be expected of any decent prospect. But you're not giving Frank the same benefit of the doubt?

I keep saying this but I guess i have to keep saying it. 12 and 5 is not a horrendous rookie year.... there is nothing around that fact.

I've also said repeatedly that I believe Frank can and will improve.

I am also saying that he absolutley sucks right now. Anyone that doesn't agree with that is not looking at the game with any type of clarity. To compare mudiay rookie year too what Frank is doing... if you say Mudiay was horrendous, them Frank is a straight up embarrassment to the sport.... I been repeating myself over and over.

Lol we'll have to agree to do disagree. Through advanced stats paint the picture of a substandard rookie year and, if you dig deeper, basic stats like field goal percentage and turnovers show the same thing. That 12 and 5 is superficial. If it was so good, why did they pull the leash the next year when he showed minimal improvement? He was bad and the Denver management thought he was bad and the fans...we'll go check out the Nugget fan boards. Point is Mudiay is still relatively young and Frank is even younger.

They went with the better player... Jamal Murray. That's really it....

And how could you disagree with me and still talk about fg% when Frank has terrible percentages too... even if you project Frank to 36 minutes per his production. Is still bad.... it's a sad day when guys dismiss a NBA player making 12/5 as a rookie and 11 and 5 his second year as being terrible.

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

martin wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

GrandDesign wrote:19 year olds, dude.

If he's 19 and can't play then he belongs back in France on the bench just like he was last year

Eny, this is what a rebuild with a very young player looks like. Get used to it. Sometimes they have great games, lots of times they stink.

this

That's not fair. Nobody else gets a pass but Frank does? Guy's were saying Mudiay sucked and wasn't a NBA player at 19. That he was force fed minutes....a bunch of wild ****... but all that talk is actually what is happening with Frank and were not allowed to say that? That's ridiculous.

Frank is young and I believe he can get better obviously.... but I can't give him that because posters here aren't giving everyone the same benifit of doubt.

No one is really targeting Mudiay. My point is that he had a horrendous rookie year and Denver fans gave him a pass. He made some improvements, which is to be expected of any decent prospect. But you're not giving Frank the same benefit of the doubt?

I keep saying this but I guess i have to keep saying it. 12 and 5 is not a horrendous rookie year.... there is nothing around that fact.

I've also said repeatedly that I believe Frank can and will improve.

I am also saying that he absolutley sucks right now. Anyone that doesn't agree with that is not looking at the game with any type of clarity. To compare mudiay rookie year too what Frank is doing... if you say Mudiay was horrendous, them Frank is a straight up embarrassment to the sport.... I been repeating myself over and over.

Lol we'll have to agree to do disagree. Through advanced stats paint the picture of a substandard rookie year and, if you dig deeper, basic stats like field goal percentage and turnovers show the same thing. That 12 and 5 is superficial. If it was so good, why did they pull the leash the next year when he showed minimal improvement? He was bad and the Denver management thought he was bad and the fans...we'll go check out the Nugget fan boards. Point is Mudiay is still relatively young and Frank is even younger.

They went with the better player... Jamal Murray. That's really it....

And how could you disagree with me and still talk about fg% when Frank has terrible percentages too... even if you project Frank to 36 minutes per his production. Is still bad.... it's a sad day when guys dismiss a NBA player making 12/5 as a rookie and 11 and 5 his second year as being terrible.

Frank is on his own timetable. Doesn’t matter what Mudiay did at 19. They’re different players with different strengths. Frank is a project on offense but a stud in the making on Defense. Frank is still having an impact despite his poor scoring. What is most important is how Frank develops the next couple of years. This rookie season is meaningless relative to what happens the next couple of years. The experience is valuable for Frank even with the struggles.

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

martin wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

GrandDesign wrote:19 year olds, dude.

If he's 19 and can't play then he belongs back in France on the bench just like he was last year

Eny, this is what a rebuild with a very young player looks like. Get used to it. Sometimes they have great games, lots of times they stink.

this

That's not fair. Nobody else gets a pass but Frank does? Guy's were saying Mudiay sucked and wasn't a NBA player at 19. That he was force fed minutes....a bunch of wild ****... but all that talk is actually what is happening with Frank and were not allowed to say that? That's ridiculous.

Frank is young and I believe he can get better obviously.... but I can't give him that because posters here aren't giving everyone the same benifit of doubt.

No one is really targeting Mudiay. My point is that he had a horrendous rookie year and Denver fans gave him a pass. He made some improvements, which is to be expected of any decent prospect. But you're not giving Frank the same benefit of the doubt?

Agree that Mudiays first year was not horrendous. But okay, what exactly does that speak to? We should give Frank a pass and get ready to trade him for scraps in year 3?

There is no getting around it. Frank has been a disappointment as an 8th pick. Can he get better? Sure Is he only 19? Yes. But all we have is hope. Some other teams have picks, made after us, that are having very good years. Which position would you rather be in?

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

martin wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

GrandDesign wrote:19 year olds, dude.

If he's 19 and can't play then he belongs back in France on the bench just like he was last year

Eny, this is what a rebuild with a very young player looks like. Get used to it. Sometimes they have great games, lots of times they stink.

this

That's not fair. Nobody else gets a pass but Frank does? Guy's were saying Mudiay sucked and wasn't a NBA player at 19. That he was force fed minutes....a bunch of wild ****... but all that talk is actually what is happening with Frank and were not allowed to say that? That's ridiculous.

Frank is young and I believe he can get better obviously.... but I can't give him that because posters here aren't giving everyone the same benifit of doubt.

No one is really targeting Mudiay. My point is that he had a horrendous rookie year and Denver fans gave him a pass. He made some improvements, which is to be expected of any decent prospect. But you're not giving Frank the same benefit of the doubt?

I keep saying this but I guess i have to keep saying it. 12 and 5 is not a horrendous rookie year.... there is nothing around that fact.

I've also said repeatedly that I believe Frank can and will improve.

I am also saying that he absolutley sucks right now. Anyone that doesn't agree with that is not looking at the game with any type of clarity. To compare mudiay rookie year too what Frank is doing... if you say Mudiay was horrendous, them Frank is a straight up embarrassment to the sport.... I been repeating myself over and over.

Lol we'll have to agree to do disagree. Through advanced stats paint the picture of a substandard rookie year and, if you dig deeper, basic stats like field goal percentage and turnovers show the same thing. That 12 and 5 is superficial. If it was so good, why did they pull the leash the next year when he showed minimal improvement? He was bad and the Denver management thought he was bad and the fans...we'll go check out the Nugget fan boards. Point is Mudiay is still relatively young and Frank is even younger.

They went with the better player... Jamal Murray. That's really it....

And how could you disagree with me and still talk about fg% when Frank has terrible percentages too... even if you project Frank to 36 minutes per his production. Is still bad.... it's a sad day when guys dismiss a NBA player making 12/5 as a rookie and 11 and 5 his second year as being terrible.

Frank is on his own timetable. Doesn’t matter what Mudiay did at 19. They’re different players with different strengths. Frank is a project on offense but a stud in the making on Defense. Frank is still having an impact despite his poor scoring. What is most important is how Frank develops the next couple of years. This rookie season is meaningless relative to what happens the next couple of years. The experience is valuable for Frank even with the struggles.

It's meaningless but I can't let it go that guys feel it's ok to bash Mudiay at 19 but not Frank even Frank is clearly worse

http://stats.nba.com/players/ball-handler/#!?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&OD=defensive&sort=Percentile&dir=1&CF=GP*GE*40:PossG*GE*3

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/TheCohencidence/status/963834102481936385

smackeddog wrote:Who'd of thunk it would take more than 4 months to develop a raw 19 year old pg...

Some cant tell the difference between being patient with a process as opposed to simply defending bad play.

nixluva wrote:Frank is RAW Offensively but we knew that. It was always going to take time for Frank to develop but the reason why Frank is still a +1 on the year in On/Off Court is his Defense. Frank is that good and it’s going right over a LOT of fans heads! Frank is 90th Percentile in PnR Defense as a Rookie! When he’s on the floor with KP who is a great rim protector it makes the Knicks Defense a LOT better.

http://stats.nba.com/players/ball-handler/#!?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&OD=defensive&sort=Percentile&dir=1&CF=GP*GE*40:PossG*GE*3

His defense has little to no impact, he is not stopping anyone.

Frank is the only 19 yr old in the league getting that much PT, and he sucks.

IT says something about an organization that brings in a kid that RAW, and has to rely on him..Thats the saddest part. An organization like the spurs would have stash him for another yr..

EnySpree wrote:I'm just waiting for cats to be real and just say Frank sucks.... what you think he can be is irrelevant to that fact. Doesn't mean I'm saying he needs to be traded.... im saying he's terrible right now. That's a fact.

Terrible on offense, yes. But he's a good defensive player already. As opposed to many rookies that put up numbers, but they are empty numbers and they are also poor defensively. He's not as bad as his numbers show, compared to other rookies. 3pt shooting going up, defensive impact clearly there. Obviously he has a long way to go, but if you don't just focus on stats and him being invisible on offense at times, there's good stuff in there.

Knixkik wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I'm just waiting for cats to be real and just say Frank sucks.... what you think he can be is irrelevant to that fact. Doesn't mean I'm saying he needs to be traded.... im saying he's terrible right now. That's a fact.

Terrible on offense, yes. But he's a good defensive player already. As opposed to many rookies that put up numbers, but they are empty numbers and they are also poor defensively. He's not as bad as his numbers show, compared to other rookies. 3pt shooting going up, defensive impact clearly there. Obviously he has a long way to go, but if you don't just focus on stats and him being invisible on offense at times, there's good stuff in there.

No need to bring up other players that actual got stats. Frank isn't even stats.... but Frank is better simply because he can play defense? Disregard how hard it is to average anything on the nba level. Those players suck. Frank isn't even on that level. You have to score more to win. You can't go 20 minutes in the nba and get no stats and poodle still say you are a good player because you can "play defense".... it's ridiculous. Frank needs to hear from us that he sucks. That should light a fire. It's just not acceptable

EnySpree wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I'm just waiting for cats to be real and just say Frank sucks.... what you think he can be is irrelevant to that fact. Doesn't mean I'm saying he needs to be traded.... im saying he's terrible right now. That's a fact.

Terrible on offense, yes. But he's a good defensive player already. As opposed to many rookies that put up numbers, but they are empty numbers and they are also poor defensively. He's not as bad as his numbers show, compared to other rookies. 3pt shooting going up, defensive impact clearly there. Obviously he has a long way to go, but if you don't just focus on stats and him being invisible on offense at times, there's good stuff in there.

No need to bring up other players that actual got stats. Frank isn't even stats.... but Frank is better simply because he can play defense? Disregard how hard it is to average anything on the nba level. Those players suck. Frank isn't even on that level. You have to score more to win. You can't go 20 minutes in the nba and get no stats and poodle still say you are a good player because you can "play defense".... it's ridiculous. Frank needs to hear from us that he sucks. That should light a fire. It's just not acceptable

Compare him to someone like Andre Roberson, who just got paid big but never puts up stats. Frank can shoot much better than him too. Just saying, just because you don't put up stats doesn't mean you suck. Frank has 2 nba skills right now: good perimeter defense, and 3pt shot (which is improving every day to NBA average). The rest of his game is a major work in progress. But he should be a college freshman right now, so i can deal with that.