Knixkik wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:another 2 point night shooting 16%. He looked better 71 games ago

Yea but his defense was top notch/elite... Jeff needs to make frank a bigger part of the offense he just missed his open looks tonight, wish he got the ball more frequently on O so he’s in the flow and not stiffly taking a few jumpers through out a long game, never in rhythm. Coach has to do a better job of getting him involved. He seems like a passive teenager.

I'm so sick of reading posts like this....

Frank played like **** again but we're gonna talk about his "elite defense" and complain that Frank isn't more involved in the offense....

Frank is not the only player in the team! We are not catering to him.... as it is we're forcing him into minutes he doesn't deserve. So now we need to run plays specifically just to get him shots? Gtfoh!

I bet we're gonna say Mudiay was terrible tonight too right? That 11pt, 7 assist, 6 rebound might was terrible... but in the same 21 minutes Frank got 2pts 2 rebounds and 1 assist.... zero steals and blocks.... but Frank is elite right? Gtfoh!

Do you only watch one side of the ball? Must have hated the 90's Knicks

There is a serious disconnect on this forum with the difference between guys who put up empty stats, and guys who impact the game. Defensively, there will especially always be a disconnect because it's harder to follow a player's impact on the game defensively, or track his defensive impact statistically.

Shut up. Seriously.... harder to follow a player's defensive impact? Man **** you. Frank is a bum. You not gonna disrespect me or the Knicks talking that stupid ****. If this gets me banned so be it.

You guys aren't knick fans. Just a bunch of **** boys sucking french dick because you are butt hurt we haven't rebuilt in 30 years. You gonna tell me a guy that consistently drops horrible games 2pts, 2 rebounds and 1 assist in 21 minutes is an elite player? They are worth more than a guy that can drop 19pts or flirt with a triple double in the same 21 minutes? Shut the **** up ****ing clown! Suck my dick from the back!

Lol you're taking this way too seriously, wow.

I apologize but **** you at the same time

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:another 2 point night shooting 16%. He looked better 71 games ago

Yea but his defense was top notch/elite... Jeff needs to make frank a bigger part of the offense he just missed his open looks tonight, wish he got the ball more frequently on O so he’s in the flow and not stiffly taking a few jumpers through out a long game, never in rhythm. Coach has to do a better job of getting him involved. He seems like a passive teenager.

I'm so sick of reading posts like this....

Frank played like **** again but we're gonna talk about his "elite defense" and complain that Frank isn't more involved in the offense....

Frank is not the only player in the team! We are not catering to him.... as it is we're forcing him into minutes he doesn't deserve. So now we need to run plays specifically just to get him shots? Gtfoh!

I bet we're gonna say Mudiay was terrible tonight too right? That 11pt, 7 assist, 6 rebound might was terrible... but in the same 21 minutes Frank got 2pts 2 rebounds and 1 assist.... zero steals and blocks.... but Frank is elite right? Gtfoh!

Do you only watch one side of the ball? Must have hated the 90's Knicks

There is a serious disconnect on this forum with the difference between guys who put up empty stats, and guys who impact the game. Defensively, there will especially always be a disconnect because it's harder to follow a player's impact on the game defensively, or track his defensive impact statistically.

Shut up. Seriously.... harder to follow a player's defensive impact? Man **** you. Frank is a bum. You not gonna disrespect me or the Knicks talking that stupid ****. If this gets me banned so be it.

You guys aren't knick fans. Just a bunch of **** boys sucking french dick because you are butt hurt we haven't rebuilt in 30 years. You gonna tell me a guy that consistently drops horrible games 2pts, 2 rebounds and 1 assist in 21 minutes is an elite player? They are worth more than a guy that can drop 19pts or flirt with a triple double in the same 21 minutes? Shut the **** up ****ing clown! Suck my dick from the back!

that's a little harsh, but I definitely get you point..

this what happens to fans that have been rooting for a really bad franchise for so long. I keep saying that if frank was on dallas, and dsj was on the knicks, the same people who be rooting for DSJ and calling frank a sure nuff project.

Now this guy makes a couple of decent defensive plays, and his ELITE..lmao

What's this elite stuff? Not sure who is saying he is elite. Let me repeat this; the team is 13th best defensive team with him on the floor, 105 points per 100 possession. They are 29th with him off the floor, 110 points per 100 possessions. Look at the on/off impact of Dennis Smith, and tell me what you come up with. I am giving you simple proof that displays his impact to winning. We aren't a good team with him on the court, but we are less bad. He bumps us from 2nd worst defensive team in the league, to slightly above average. Not sure how you can dispute that. I am trying to keep things civil for those who obviously take this subject very sensitively. For a team who has been bad for so long and have been led by guys like Stoudemire, Melo, Rose, etc, and not getting too many winning seasons out of these guys, i am now judging players on their impact to winning, not just on how many points they score, or what their shooting percentages are. Frank is not a 2-way player at this point in time. But he is a plus on 1 end of the floor, whereas most rookies are net-negative on both ends. But i understand he is not flashy and is extremely passive on offense, so if you are looking solely at points/reb/assist/steals/blocks, than that's your right and i don't blame any of you for feeling he has underachieved. In terms of basic stats, yes he has not had a great year. Fortunately, that doesn't have as much with becoming a good NBA player. Otherwise a guy like Beasley would be getting paid the big bucks.

Zebo13 wrote:Your patience is saintly my friend.

I have been here a long time, so i have seen it all. Obviously rebuilding is going to take it's toll on many. Especially when a guy isn't a star on both ends of the floor in his rookie season!

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Zebo13 wrote:Your patience is saintly my friend.

I have been here a long time, so i have seen it all. Obviously rebuilding is going to take it's toll on many. Especially when a guy isn't a star on both ends of the floor in his rookie season!

Knixkik
Posts: 29239
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 24/7/2001
Member: #11
USA

REALLY long dude!

Exactly the reason I'm off the deep end with this. We're supposed to be superfans and we're going blow smoke up Frank's ass because of what he can do in a year or two? We're going to desecrate the 90s Knicks because a 19 year old kid from France might be able to play defense (yes someone said elite and Frank in the same sentence in this thread).... it's pathetic. Almost 17 years posting here and this is what we are now? I been posting here along time... this is terrible. I can point to a few timesthe last few seasons where you guys have really went on a tangent when it comes to basic fandom. This Frank stuff got me seriously aggravated

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:another 2 point night shooting 16%. He looked better 71 games ago

Yea but his defense was top notch/elite... Jeff needs to make frank a bigger part of the offense he just missed his open looks tonight, wish he got the ball more frequently on O so he’s in the flow and not stiffly taking a few jumpers through out a long game, never in rhythm. Coach has to do a better job of getting him involved. He seems like a passive teenager.

yea its funny... you can tell who watches. When I saw he was starting I tuned it. He locked down Porter early. He defends everyone well. He was on Gortat for a switch and challenged him into a bad jumper.

Frank's offense (obviously) needs work but his defense is straight up impact. 19 year old, never lifted weights and he's playing great defense. Funny how knicks1248 cries we need a guy like Mark Jackson to "instill defensive toughness." Meanwhile we have a prospect on the team who could be one of the league's best but dummies cant see the value of having him here and developing him. Typical.

Agreed. He is a very good "Role" player. Great for spurts off the bench to be a stopper. Don't think anyone is questioning his defense. Just the fact that he has proven to be a solid starter on a good tean or a great 8th pick.

right... we wont know that right away. That how prospects work. Just like we wont know if Dennis Smith will ever do anything beside chuck shots at a sub 40% or be a turnstile on defense on a tanking team. I mean maybe he will, maybe he is what many were concerned he would be... a me first shot taker with health issues.

Being a very good role player at 19 from EU having never lifted weights speaks volumes of his talent.

When it comes to winning, Frank has "IT"

Is Draymond Green a "ROLE" player? I am ok with using a lottery pick on that caliber a player.

Classic....Fishmike: "Frank=Green"

Did you want to start the Smith-Frank comparison again? How is a "chucker" "shoot first" guy averaging close to 5 dimes a game in his FIRST year? And you don't see me posting any Homer posts talking about a 2 pt. 21 minute performance on Smith Jr.?

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Zebo13 wrote:Your patience is saintly my friend.

I have been here a long time, so i have seen it all. Obviously rebuilding is going to take it's toll on many. Especially when a guy isn't a star on both ends of the floor in his rookie season!

Knixkik
Posts: 29239
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 24/7/2001
Member: #11
USA

REALLY long dude!

Exactly the reason I'm off the deep end with this. We're supposed to be superfans and we're going blow smoke up Frank's ass because of what he can do in a year or two? We're going to desecrate the 90s Knicks because a 19 year old kid from France might be able to play defense (yes someone said elite and Frank in the same sentence in this thread).... it's pathetic. Almost 17 years posting here and this is what we are now? I been posting here along time... this is terrible. I can point to a few timesthe last few seasons where you guys have really went on a tangent when it comes to basic fandom. This Frank stuff got me seriously aggravated

There's no "might." Dudes who follow the NBA on a local and national basis have raved about Frank's D. We're rebuilding and part of that includes sitting through a player's growing pains. Why should Frank stuff get you aggravated. You're a fan of the team. If Frank improves the team improves. He has A LOT to work on offensively, but we're seeing flashes. IMHO, the biggest concern was of he could keep up athletically and he has. Like I said, if he's still playing at this level in his third season, the we'll turn on him too.

My whole thing is.... I like the kid. I see the potential like everyone else.... but you aren't going to tell me a guy putting up 2 pts 2 rebounds and 1 assist had a better game than a guy that scored 19 and another guy that flirted with a triple double in the same 21 minutes. No way... right now Frank is terrible. Nothing wrong with that because it's not his time yet... but don't tellme he'sso good right now when he's literally garbage right now.

Knixkik wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Zebo13 wrote:Your patience is saintly my friend.

I have been here a long time, so i have seen it all. Obviously rebuilding is going to take it's toll on many. Especially when a guy isn't a star on both ends of the floor in his rookie season!

Knixkik
Posts: 29239
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 24/7/2001
Member: #11
USA

REALLY long dude!

Exactly the reason I'm off the deep end with this. We're supposed to be superfans and we're going blow smoke up Frank's ass because of what he can do in a year or two? We're going to desecrate the 90s Knicks because a 19 year old kid from France might be able to play defense (yes someone said elite and Frank in the same sentence in this thread).... it's pathetic. Almost 17 years posting here and this is what we are now? I been posting here along time... this is terrible. I can point to a few timesthe last few seasons where you guys have really went on a tangent when it comes to basic fandom. This Frank stuff got me seriously aggravated

There's no "might." Dudes who follow the NBA on a local and national basis have raved about Frank's D. We're rebuilding and part of that includes sitting through a player's growing pains. Why should Frank stuff get you aggravated. You're a fan of the team. If Frank improves the team improves. He has A LOT to work on offensively, but we're seeing flashes. IMHO, the biggest concern was of he could keep up athletically and he has. Like I said, if he's still playing at this level in his third season, the we'll turn on him too.

My whole thing is.... I like the kid. I see the potential like everyone else.... but you aren't going to tell me a guy putting up 2 pts 2 rebounds and 1 assist had a better game than a guy that scored 19 and another guy that flirted with a triple double in the same 21 minutes. No way... right now Frank is terrible. Nothing wrong with that because it's not his time yet... but don't tellme he'sso good right now when he's literally garbage right now.

When i'm referring to the type of year Frank is having, i'm not talking about last game or whatever. I think his past 5 games he's averaged 8 pts, 3 rebs, 3 asts. Not great, but not terrible. But in the 17 years i have been here, i have seen countless players come to NY who can score points in a hurry, but don't help the team win. Here is a guy who, as a rookie, can't score, but can impact the game without scoring. In terms of projecting what he might grow into, i can be happy with what he is doing now.

Here you go....

That horrible game Frank had isn't an isolated incident. You want to talk about 5 games of mediocre play to show how Frank is playing well... well i can point to 66 games where he looked like a piece of ****!

Impact the game without scoring? Cool.... but where else is he impacting? That pisses me off too. Who the **** is talking about his scoring? He's not rebounding, passing, blocking, stealing... he's not doing **** out there! Spare me this garbage man.

Knixkik wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Zebo13 wrote:Your patience is saintly my friend.

I have been here a long time, so i have seen it all. Obviously rebuilding is going to take it's toll on many. Especially when a guy isn't a star on both ends of the floor in his rookie season!

Knixkik
Posts: 29239
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 24/7/2001
Member: #11
USA

REALLY long dude!

Exactly the reason I'm off the deep end with this. We're supposed to be superfans and we're going blow smoke up Frank's ass because of what he can do in a year or two? We're going to desecrate the 90s Knicks because a 19 year old kid from France might be able to play defense (yes someone said elite and Frank in the same sentence in this thread).... it's pathetic. Almost 17 years posting here and this is what we are now? I been posting here along time... this is terrible. I can point to a few timesthe last few seasons where you guys have really went on a tangent when it comes to basic fandom. This Frank stuff got me seriously aggravated

There's no "might." Dudes who follow the NBA on a local and national basis have raved about Frank's D. We're rebuilding and part of that includes sitting through a player's growing pains. Why should Frank stuff get you aggravated. You're a fan of the team. If Frank improves the team improves. He has A LOT to work on offensively, but we're seeing flashes. IMHO, the biggest concern was of he could keep up athletically and he has. Like I said, if he's still playing at this level in his third season, the we'll turn on him too.

My whole thing is.... I like the kid. I see the potential like everyone else.... but you aren't going to tell me a guy putting up 2 pts 2 rebounds and 1 assist had a better game than a guy that scored 19 and another guy that flirted with a triple double in the same 21 minutes. No way... right now Frank is terrible. Nothing wrong with that because it's not his time yet... but don't tellme he'sso good right now when he's literally garbage right now.

When i'm referring to the type of year Frank is having, i'm not talking about last game or whatever. I think his past 5 games he's averaged 8 pts, 3 rebs, 3 asts. Not great, but not terrible. But in the 17 years i have been here, i have seen countless players come to NY who can score points in a hurry, but don't help the team win. Here is a guy who, as a rookie, can't score, but can impact the game without scoring. In terms of projecting what he might grow into, i can be happy with what he is doing now.

Here you go....

That horrible game Frank had isn't an isolated incident. You want to talk about 5 games of mediocre play to show how Frank is playing well... well i can point to 66 games where he looked like a piece of ****!

Impact the game without scoring? Cool.... but where else is he impacting? That pisses me off too. Who the **** is talking about his scoring? He's not rebounding, passing, blocking, stealing... he's not doing **** out there! Spare me this garbage man.

So why is the team 5 points per 100 possessions better with him on the floor? Why do we go from 29th to 13th defensively? Coincidence? You asked for scoring, here you go, he's putting up points tonight. Hope this satisfies the stat-chasers. If you think he looked like a POS 66 games, you either aren't watching or don't understand what defensive impact looks like. To you he needs to score 10+ points and have 5+ assists or whatever to be considered having a good game. How naive that is.

I never said **** about scoring *******! Stat chaser my ass. Go **** yourself with that stupid ****. So just going out there while everyone else is playing well while you do nothing says thatyou are a good player? Fuck you dude. Fuuuuuuuck you!

EnySpree wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Zebo13 wrote:Your patience is saintly my friend.

I have been here a long time, so i have seen it all. Obviously rebuilding is going to take it's toll on many. Especially when a guy isn't a star on both ends of the floor in his rookie season!

Knixkik
Posts: 29239
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 24/7/2001
Member: #11
USA

REALLY long dude!

Exactly the reason I'm off the deep end with this. We're supposed to be superfans and we're going blow smoke up Frank's ass because of what he can do in a year or two? We're going to desecrate the 90s Knicks because a 19 year old kid from France might be able to play defense (yes someone said elite and Frank in the same sentence in this thread).... it's pathetic. Almost 17 years posting here and this is what we are now? I been posting here along time... this is terrible. I can point to a few timesthe last few seasons where you guys have really went on a tangent when it comes to basic fandom. This Frank stuff got me seriously aggravated

There's no "might." Dudes who follow the NBA on a local and national basis have raved about Frank's D. We're rebuilding and part of that includes sitting through a player's growing pains. Why should Frank stuff get you aggravated. You're a fan of the team. If Frank improves the team improves. He has A LOT to work on offensively, but we're seeing flashes. IMHO, the biggest concern was of he could keep up athletically and he has. Like I said, if he's still playing at this level in his third season, the we'll turn on him too.

My whole thing is.... I like the kid. I see the potential like everyone else.... but you aren't going to tell me a guy putting up 2 pts 2 rebounds and 1 assist had a better game than a guy that scored 19 and another guy that flirted with a triple double in the same 21 minutes. No way... right now Frank is terrible. Nothing wrong with that because it's not his time yet... but don't tellme he'sso good right now when he's literally garbage right now.

When i'm referring to the type of year Frank is having, i'm not talking about last game or whatever. I think his past 5 games he's averaged 8 pts, 3 rebs, 3 asts. Not great, but not terrible. But in the 17 years i have been here, i have seen countless players come to NY who can score points in a hurry, but don't help the team win. Here is a guy who, as a rookie, can't score, but can impact the game without scoring. In terms of projecting what he might grow into, i can be happy with what he is doing now.

Here you go....

That horrible game Frank had isn't an isolated incident. You want to talk about 5 games of mediocre play to show how Frank is playing well... well i can point to 66 games where he looked like a piece of ****!

Impact the game without scoring? Cool.... but where else is he impacting? That pisses me off too. Who the **** is talking about his scoring? He's not rebounding, passing, blocking, stealing... he's not doing **** out there! Spare me this garbage man.

So why is the team 5 points per 100 possessions better with him on the floor? Why do we go from 29th to 13th defensively? Coincidence? You asked for scoring, here you go, he's putting up points tonight. Hope this satisfies the stat-chasers. If you think he looked like a POS 66 games, you either aren't watching or don't understand what defensive impact looks like. To you he needs to score 10+ points and have 5+ assists or whatever to be considered having a good game. How naive that is.

I never said **** about scoring *******! Stat chaser my ass. Go **** yourself with that stupid ****. So just going out there while everyone else is playing well while you do nothing says thatyou are a good player? Fuck you dude. Fuuuuuuuck you!

We are just talking basketball, and disagree about a player. Read what you are saying here. My personal opinion is that you are a stat-follower who doesn't understand how players impact a game. You think stats equals wins. Again, just my opinion, but i won't follow suit and be direspectful. I have been here for 17 years talking basketball without saying the type of stuff you are right now. Quite a disgrace. Save that nonsense for another conversation. This stuff really isn't that serious you know. Go get some stress relief somewhere.

Cartman718 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Again I'm so sorry.... I been trying not to be disrespectful.... but you guys are crossing all type of lines here over this Frank kid.

Scoring 42 and 12 is worth less than a guy that only shows up in plus and minus stats. Fuuuuuuuck this man

How old are you? My guess is not in your 20s at least. You are being disrespectful. So you are a fan boy of Burke because of his performance, believe me so am I. But you have a problem with other fan boys of Frank because they see something you don't? I dont see them coming at you with the **** this **** that.

People really need to do some self policing on here, you cant expect mods to give up their personal lives and "reprimand" every trashy post.

I'm a huge fan of Burke. I am also a fan of Frank for the reasons stated. I agree, not sure why EnySpree is so worked up and just throwing this nonsense out there. Really disappointing that he feels it's necessary to make his point this way.