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Frank the Blank
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martin
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2/17/2018  2:39 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:200 post about a kid who is avg 5 points..The bottom line is, if he doesn't show a vast improvement next season he will be traded. Clearly the knicks don't have a lot of faith in him, or else they wouldn't be scouring the nba circut's for cheap pgs to help

“Clearly the knicks don’t have confidence...” Again, your asking. Shit up.
Say “I think the knicks don’t have confidence”, then explain your view.
Otherwise your making things up.

This kid is far from ready and he really hasn't shown much progress, look at his scouting report from a yr ago, and tell me you don't see the same issues now..


again thats your opinion. But saying that the knicks dont have faith in him is inaccurate unless you have some inside info or something which i doubt

Faith in him right now, clearly the kid has potential, and no one is ever going to debate that, but i don't have faith in the knicks current coaching staff to develop him the right way in the right system.

The idea should be to put much better players around him so he can learn and clearly the FO his struggling to do that because of what they have to work with..little to no assets or cap space.

They brought in Sessions and Jack to do just that, they've told everyone who would listen that very fact. You weren't paying attention.

How much better were they?

On court production for the Knicks, not much and zero. But each has had success in the NBA to a degree. Their influence on Frank? TBD

Yup. If Frank wasnt picked in the top ten, I doubt anyone would be antsy about how much of a project he is turning out to be.

Baker was undrafted, his struggles were easier to deal with because we knew he was a low risk project.

I would say then that your expectations are not in line with what Frank is but rather the # he was picked.

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Panos
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2/17/2018  2:39 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/17/2018  2:45 PM
nixluva wrote:
Panos wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Panos wrote:Frank N. is Michael Sweetney, 2017 edition. He'll be out of the league once his rookie contract is up.
You know NOTHING! Tony Allen made a career Off Defense and hes not even close to the passer Frank is. Guys like Frank tend to stick in the NBA! Fans are assuming Frank isnt going to improve his offense but chances are he will.

Don't get your panties in a snit. It's my prediction. Just as you're looking into that cracked crystal ball of yours making a prediction, that he'll develop an offensive game, based on nothing, zero facts or foundation. You make overly optimistic predictions about the Knicks' rookies every single year, and say how this time it's different, and *I'm* the one who knows nothing? So you're whole point is that the Knicks "knew he was raw offensively". Yeah, so? What does that prove? That says he'll magically be able to become a developed and effective offensive NBA player in 3 years? Based on what? Back the F up with your "You know NOTHING!"
If I'm wrong I'll be happy to eat crow. But my prediction is more likely to be right than yours. Like every other year.

The reason our scouts have confidence in Frank’s ability to improve is based on their close observations of his progress and underlying talent. Just cuz he’s not yet a good shooter doesn’t mean a Pro Scout can’t predict whether he can become one. Just watching him it’s obvious that Frank has touch and needs more work but I see nothing that should prohibit him from continuing to improve.

You clearly missed the point I made. Tony Allen has made a CAREER as a defensive guard. He’s not the passer that Frank is already. Allen was 23 in his rookie year. Frank has time to develop his offense and confidence in his scoring. IMO Frank is smart enough to know he’s not developed enough to be hoisting up too many bad shots right now.


"Our scouts." Like the Knicks scouts have this tremendous drafting record. Man, every single player drafted into the NBA is scouted by Professional NBA scouts, every one. Every average player, every steal and every BUST. Yes, even the BUSTS. People hired by the New York Knickerbockers looked at Jordan Hill and thought he was the best player available at the #8 position, even though DeMar DeRozan(!), Jrue Holiday, Jeff Teague, Ty Lawson, Taj Gibson and Demarre Carroll were still on the board. What is your point? "Our scouts have confidence." What the F do you know about "our scouts"? You spew out this generic crap like you have some special insight into the minds of the personnel inside the organization, that no other fan knows, when, in fact, you don't know a damn thing.
I remember 2015 when Jerian Grant was drafted (OOOH, what a steal! We traded THjr for draft rights for Jerian Grant! How brilliant!) you and others were calling for him to start by like the 4th game of the season. Got news for you, he'll be out of the league after his rookie contract, too.

You're like a magpie that gets so excited when he finds a glittery piece of tinsel and forgets about the bottle cap he found yesterday that, even though it was shiny and new, was, well, just another bottle cap.

Nalod
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2/17/2018  2:49 PM
Pano's,

We have extreme opinions. I suppose I am guilty of pushing back on the negative but in truth I don't read Nixluva's post because they are so one sided.
Me, every year there are guys that drop or play far greater than their draft position. With that in mind and knowing frank was a prospect I was fully prepared by what was to come.
I hoped Frank was a star and "Just 19" was the kind of thing that was "even better". Giannis has been given such great press for that. "Future MVP" is the label. Talk about expectations!!!
Kid is good, no problem there.
Frank is debated by the prism which we look at him. Nix farts rainbows. In my book thats a good place to be. Happy.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
martin
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2/17/2018  2:50 PM
Panos wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Panos wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Panos wrote:Frank N. is Michael Sweetney, 2017 edition. He'll be out of the league once his rookie contract is up.
You know NOTHING! Tony Allen made a career Off Defense and hes not even close to the passer Frank is. Guys like Frank tend to stick in the NBA! Fans are assuming Frank isnt going to improve his offense but chances are he will.

Don't get your panties in a snit. It's my prediction. Just as you're looking into that cracked crystal ball of yours making a prediction, that he'll develop an offensive game, based on nothing, zero facts or foundation. You make overly optimistic predictions about the Knicks' rookies every single year, and say how this time it's different, and *I'm* the one who knows nothing? So you're whole point is that the Knicks "knew he was raw offensively". Yeah, so? What does that prove? That says he'll magically be able to become a developed and effective offensive NBA player in 3 years? Based on what? Back the F up with your "You know NOTHING!"
If I'm wrong I'll be happy to eat crow. But my prediction is more likely to be right than yours. Like every other year.

The reason our scouts have confidence in Frank’s ability to improve is based on their close observations of his progress and underlying talent. Just cuz he’s not yet a good shooter doesn’t mean a Pro Scout can’t predict whether he can become one. Just watching him it’s obvious that Frank has touch and needs more work but I see nothing that should prohibit him from continuing to improve.

You clearly missed the point I made. Tony Allen has made a CAREER as a defensive guard. He’s not the passer that Frank is already. Allen was 23 in his rookie year. Frank has time to develop his offense and confidence in his scoring. IMO Frank is smart enough to know he’s not developed enough to be hoisting up too many bad shots right now.


"Our scouts." Like the Knicks scouts have this tremendous drafting record. Man, every single player drafted into the NBA is scouted by Professional NBA scouts, every one. Every average player, every steal and every BUST. Yes, even the BUSTS. People hired by the New York Knickerbockers looked at Jordan Hill and thought he was the best player available at the #8 position, even though DeMar DeRozan(!), Jrue Holiday, Jeff Teague, Ty Lawson, Taj Gibson and Demarre Carroll were still on the board. What is your point? "Our scouts have confidence." What the F do you know about "our scouts"? You spew out this generic crap like you have some special insight into the minds of the personnel inside the organization, that no other fan knows, when, in fact, you don't know a damn thing.
I remember 2015 when Jerian Grant was drafted (OOOH, what a steal! We traded THjr for draft rights for Jerian Grant! How brilliant!) you and others were calling for him to start by like the 4th game of the season. Got news for you, he'll be out of the league after his rookie contract, too.

You're like a magpie that gets so excited when he finds a glittery piece of tinsel and forgets about the bottle cap he found yesterday that, even though it was shiny and new, was, well, just another bottle cap.

Not for nothing but if you are going to poo-poo Nix about anything he says about a player then expect to get tons of **** for posts like this:

Panos wrote:Frank N. is Michael Sweetney, 2017 edition. He'll be out of the league once his rookie contract is up.
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Panos
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2/17/2018  2:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/17/2018  3:00 PM
Nixluva from thread: "Jerian Grant Is Our Starting Lead Guard"

nixluva wrote:I love this kid. I was so happy when they announced we got him in the draft. Now watching him play it just makes me even more happy cuz we really needed a guard for our future. No more TD or Felton types. A real guard that can do the things this team needs. I could kiss Phil for giving us what we've needed for so long. I'm pulling for him to win the starting job cuz I think he's our best option, even as a rookie.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=52075&page=1

GustavBahler
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2/17/2018  2:56 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:200 post about a kid who is avg 5 points..The bottom line is, if he doesn't show a vast improvement next season he will be traded. Clearly the knicks don't have a lot of faith in him, or else they wouldn't be scouring the nba circut's for cheap pgs to help

“Clearly the knicks don’t have confidence...” Again, your asking. Shit up.
Say “I think the knicks don’t have confidence”, then explain your view.
Otherwise your making things up.

This kid is far from ready and he really hasn't shown much progress, look at his scouting report from a yr ago, and tell me you don't see the same issues now..


again thats your opinion. But saying that the knicks dont have faith in him is inaccurate unless you have some inside info or something which i doubt

Faith in him right now, clearly the kid has potential, and no one is ever going to debate that, but i don't have faith in the knicks current coaching staff to develop him the right way in the right system.

The idea should be to put much better players around him so he can learn and clearly the FO his struggling to do that because of what they have to work with..little to no assets or cap space.

They brought in Sessions and Jack to do just that, they've told everyone who would listen that very fact. You weren't paying attention.

How much better were they?

On court production for the Knicks, not much and zero. But each has had success in the NBA to a degree. Their influence on Frank? TBD

Yup. If Frank wasnt picked in the top ten, I doubt anyone would be antsy about how much of a project he is turning out to be.

Baker was undrafted, his struggles were easier to deal with because we knew he was a low risk project.

I would say then that your expectations are not in line with what Frank is but rather the # he was picked.

Thats fair, dont believe Im alone on that. Most lottery picks are thought to be more NBA ready, faster to step into their role. When I watch Frank play, listen to him, dont be surprised if Frank doesnt show the ability to be a go to scorer because he doesnt feel he needs to be one.

Thats the big question for me. Will Frank be satisfied if his game becomes more efficient but doesnt expand much beyond what we see now? I honestly dont know the answer.

Check out the article on DSJ I posted in the thread about knowing his dribble drive sets up the rest of his game, helps the team. Im not so sure Frank agrees. Havent seen any indication.

Panos
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2/17/2018  2:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/17/2018  3:04 PM
martin wrote:Not for nothing but if you are going to poo-poo Nix about anything he says about a player then expect to get tons of **** for posts like this:

Panos wrote:Frank N. is Michael Sweetney, 2017 edition. He'll be out of the league once his rookie contract is up.

I've already said, that I'll be happy to eat crow if I'm wrong about Frank. I've said it since the start of the season. It's not just that he's "raw" offensively. He has no eye of the tiger. He's got no balls. That has nothing to do with age. I was at MSG the night the Jazz came to visit. Donovan Mitchell has "it". He's got guts. Maybe he doesn't become an all-star, maybe he does. But he's definitely an NBA player.

Panos
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2/17/2018  3:07 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/17/2018  3:08 PM
Nixluva from thread: "Jerian Grant Is Our Starting Lead Guard"

nixluva wrote:I love this kid. I was so happy when they announced we got him in the draft. Now watching him play it just makes me even more happy cuz we really needed a guard for our future. No more TD or Felton types. A real guard that can do the things this team needs. I could kiss Phil for giving us what we've needed for so long. I'm pulling for him to win the starting job cuz I think he's our best option, even as a rookie.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=52075&page=1

Nixluva from thread: "Starting Lineup - Douglas, Fields, Melo, Amare, Chandler"

nixluva wrote:Watch out for Iman. The kid is going to be part of this rotation. He's got the kind of talent to be a scorer in this offense. He can get in the lane and finish and he'll be strong on the break. Once he gets adjusted to the speed of the game I think he'll be just fine. He has the handle and speed to get wherever he wants to be on the court and that's a key skill.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=40134&page=3

I'm sure I could find the same crap about Toney Douglas, Langston Galloway, etc, etc. But you get the point.

knicks1248
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2/17/2018  3:19 PM
The knicks should trade frank to the spurs for their first rnd pick, he would have a better development process over there for a number of reasons
ES
knicks1248
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2/17/2018  3:23 PM
this is even more disturbing


After playing Friday in the Rising Stars Challenge, Ntilikina revealed he will spend most of the offseason training in France. It’s a bit of a surprise since his development after a modestly successful rookie season is vital to the organization’s growth.

Most likely the Knicks would send a developmental coach to work with him in France but Ntiliikina indicated the Las Vegas Summer League doesn’t appear in the plans. The Knicks’ brass has yet to talk with Ntilikina about an offseason plan.

ES
martin
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2/17/2018  3:24 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:200 post about a kid who is avg 5 points..The bottom line is, if he doesn't show a vast improvement next season he will be traded. Clearly the knicks don't have a lot of faith in him, or else they wouldn't be scouring the nba circut's for cheap pgs to help

“Clearly the knicks don’t have confidence...” Again, your asking. Shit up.
Say “I think the knicks don’t have confidence”, then explain your view.
Otherwise your making things up.

This kid is far from ready and he really hasn't shown much progress, look at his scouting report from a yr ago, and tell me you don't see the same issues now..


again thats your opinion. But saying that the knicks dont have faith in him is inaccurate unless you have some inside info or something which i doubt

Faith in him right now, clearly the kid has potential, and no one is ever going to debate that, but i don't have faith in the knicks current coaching staff to develop him the right way in the right system.

The idea should be to put much better players around him so he can learn and clearly the FO his struggling to do that because of what they have to work with..little to no assets or cap space.

They brought in Sessions and Jack to do just that, they've told everyone who would listen that very fact. You weren't paying attention.

How much better were they?

On court production for the Knicks, not much and zero. But each has had success in the NBA to a degree. Their influence on Frank? TBD

Yup. If Frank wasnt picked in the top ten, I doubt anyone would be antsy about how much of a project he is turning out to be.

Baker was undrafted, his struggles were easier to deal with because we knew he was a low risk project.

I would say then that your expectations are not in line with what Frank is but rather the # he was picked.

Thats fair, dont believe Im alone on that. Most lottery picks are thought to be more NBA ready, faster to step into their role. When I watch Frank play, listen to him, dont be surprised if Frank doesnt show the ability to be a go to scorer because he doesnt feel he needs to be one.

Thats the big question for me. Will Frank be satisfied if his game becomes more efficient but doesnt expand much beyond what we see now? I honestly dont know the answer.

Check out the article on DSJ I posted in the thread about knowing his dribble drive sets up the rest of his game, helps the team. Im not so sure Frank agrees. Havent seen any indication.

As a whole, most lottery picks should be more NBA ready, but we should also know when they are not and adjust accordingly. Was KP ready to start? Should Frank be by way of 8th pick? Do we consider body type, age, and in this particular case, Frank's unique background?

Should Kobe have been picked earlier? Probably. And if so, should we have expected him to start and produce right away or do we set our expectations differently and let the kid marinate?

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StarksEwing1
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2/17/2018  3:34 PM
knicks1248 wrote:The knicks should trade frank to the spurs for their first rnd pick, he would have a better development process over there for a number of reasons
the knicks should hire you...you seem to know more about frank and his future than they do
martin
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2/17/2018  3:37 PM
knicks1248 wrote:this is even more disturbing


After playing Friday in the Rising Stars Challenge, Ntilikina revealed he will spend most of the offseason training in France. It’s a bit of a surprise since his development after a modestly successful rookie season is vital to the organization’s growth.

Most likely the Knicks would send a developmental coach to work with him in France but Ntiliikina indicated the Las Vegas Summer League doesn’t appear in the plans. The Knicks’ brass has yet to talk with Ntilikina about an offseason plan.

Is that what you got out of that statement?

Frank probably hasn't made summer plans yet. Knicks haven't made summer plans with Frank yet.

And then a reporter asks if he plans to play in the Summer League. Frank: "I dunno".

LOL

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Knixkik
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2/17/2018  3:37 PM
It's crazy this thread has turned into what it has. Only Knicks fans would write off a 19 year old after 50 games. Some of the stuff i am reading, literally the reason you can't rebuild here. Some will never learn!
EnySpree
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2/17/2018  3:42 PM
I'm tired of repeating the same **** over and over.
You know why I'm here....
fitzfarm
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2/17/2018  4:08 PM
Knixkik wrote:It's crazy this thread has turned into what it has. Only Knicks fans would write off a 19 year old after 50 games. Some of the stuff i am reading, literally the reason you can't rebuild here. Some will never learn!

Agreed, frank is doing good for a 19 year old rookie from France, this is a big change for him personally and professionally. I think he should start the rest of the way to build up confidence with more PT.... Franks defense is awesome, court vision is underrated , solid rebounder for a PG.

Frank has work to do as he should for a 19 year old, horny needs to let frank run wild, he looks so tentative. I’d like to see frank post up his man ala mark Jackson. Frank is a big PG who needs to learn how to use his larger body as a advantage to getting to the hoop and collapse the defense..

Get him a shooting coach the form is there just needs consistency, and a conditioning coach for this off season.

Frank crossed all the boxes of a great player especially defensively. Hopeful the knicks can develop frank and allow him to be his best self on the court.

Bizzy211
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2/17/2018  4:21 PM
I personally don't feel like there's anything wrong with saying Frank is not that good and doesn't have the motor/drive/eye of the tiger/it factor to be good in this league currently or in the future. Or Frank is going to be good, just give the 19 year old some time. It's just an opinion.

Some like him, some don't... I think that's just attributed to how he's played the game so far.

Not one person in this thread can predict the future and not one person has been wrong because we are all just stating opinions... maybe all of our responses should start off with the following words... "in my humble opinion...."

So with that said....

In my humble opinion... Frank sucks! Wasted pick at the 8th spot.

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CrushAlot
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2/17/2018  4:22 PM
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:this is even more disturbing


After playing Friday in the Rising Stars Challenge, Ntilikina revealed he will spend most of the offseason training in France. It’s a bit of a surprise since his development after a modestly successful rookie season is vital to the organization’s growth.

Most likely the Knicks would send a developmental coach to work with him in France but Ntiliikina indicated the Las Vegas Summer League doesn’t appear in the plans. The Knicks’ brass has yet to talk with Ntilikina about an offseason plan.

Is that what you got out of that statement?

Frank probably hasn't made summer plans yet. Knicks haven't made summer plans with Frank yet.

And then a reporter asks if he plans to play in the Summer League. Frank: "I dunno".

LOL

I am disappointed that he is not going to be in NY for the summer. It sounds like he is pretty homesick in the Popper article. He may need to go home and be with family. I don't think he will benefit as much as he would if he stayed in NY and worked on his game.
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Jmpasq
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2/17/2018  4:23 PM
Frank was easily the worst looking player on the world team in the rising stars game. Frank looked terrible on offense and no one was playing any defense.
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martin
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2/17/2018  4:37 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:this is even more disturbing


After playing Friday in the Rising Stars Challenge, Ntilikina revealed he will spend most of the offseason training in France. It’s a bit of a surprise since his development after a modestly successful rookie season is vital to the organization’s growth.

Most likely the Knicks would send a developmental coach to work with him in France but Ntiliikina indicated the Las Vegas Summer League doesn’t appear in the plans. The Knicks’ brass has yet to talk with Ntilikina about an offseason plan.

Is that what you got out of that statement?

Frank probably hasn't made summer plans yet. Knicks haven't made summer plans with Frank yet.

And then a reporter asks if he plans to play in the Summer League. Frank: "I dunno".

LOL

I am disappointed that he is not going to be in NY for the summer. It sounds like he is pretty homesick in the Popper article. He may need to go home and be with family. I don't think he will benefit as much as he would if he stayed in NY and worked on his game.

Crush, you do this a lot and I am a bit surprised about your assumptions and where they take you. You KNOW that NY reporters, both in headlines as well as pure reporting within articles, will say one thing while misleading with another.

You just ASSUMED that Frank will not be in NY for the summer, weather that means days, weeks or the whole summer, I do not know. Maybe he will be in France for the whole summer, half the summer, don't know; pretty sure Frank doesn't either at this point. Reporters just shoved a mic in his face and started asking him questions that he probably hasn't spent much time thinking about and we KNOW that he hasn't sat down with the Knicks to go back and forth on it.

He misses home, I'd want to go back for some time too.

Frank demonstrated to us that he played in Melo's pickup games and trained hard in NY after his playoffs. He also came to NY in-between playoff games.

Let's see how this plays out before you get disappointed in something that hasn't even happened.

Actual quotes from Frank:

“I will probably come back home, but I will take care of working on my game,’’ Ntilikina said at Staples Center. “I will make sure I will come back stronger and even better.”

Unlike Kristaps Porzingis, who stayed the entire offseason in Latvia after blowing off his exit meeting, Ntilikina will make a couple of side trips to New York.

“I will come back [to New York] to make sure the team is ready to have a great season next year,’’ Ntilikina said.

He is literally saying that he will PROBABLY go back to France AND come back to NY.

Probably go back?!?! You are disappointed in probably? Are you similarly super happy that is has already indicated he will come back to NY?

At this point in the season, do you really think the Knicks, Frank, Frank's family, Frank's agents have figured out what he is going to do during the summer? At all?

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