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ekstarks94
Posts: 21011 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/5/2015 Member: #6104 |
2/17/2018 1:14 PM LAST EDITED: 2/17/2018 1:18 PM
This whole thread embodies why we haven't won $$hit in several decades....fans are impatient. For years we had front office and owner problems...now we have a somewhat competent front office the is a full time band member ...we hold a $$hit hand for a roster with one Ace we just lost....then fans start questioning everything when you not winning....
A fan has a player and picks apart all their deficiencies and always wants the other teams player...if who they got and we were not winning would do the same thing....Kyrie holds the ball to long.....x player takes to many shots...etc.. Just because a player does not go hog wild in a rookie pick up game there done....Frank will never get a fair shake with these types of fans....always glass half empty....no patience....drooling over the other man as opposed to seeing what you have in yours... Just like ***$hole$ everyone has an opinion....and there is a lot up for debate with Frank....either you like him and want to see if he can grow into his potential or you think he is 2nd rounder trash that we took to soon.... It is a waste arguing..trying to convince these fans... Let just sit back and see what happens and time will separate the winners from the suckers on Frank |
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CrushAlot
Posts: 59764 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/25/2003 Member: #452 USA |
2/17/2018 1:30 PM
ekstarks94 wrote:This whole thread embodies why we haven't won $$hit in several decades....fans are impatient. For years we had front office and owner problems...now we have a somewhat competent front office the is a full time band member ...we hold a $$hit hand for a roster with one Ace we just lost....then fans start questioning everything when you not winning....Wow. I don't think any Knick fan wants to see Frank not develop so they can be right. Also, I am not sure how talking about how inept Frank is at times on offense is why the Knicks haven't won sh@t. That makes no sense unless you think they blew the pick. I do think it is hard and frustrating to watch him struggle because of his draft position. Making observations about his struggles isn't being reactionary. No one is saying Frank isn't young and is the player he will be for his entire career. But this is a message board for fans of a team. If guys don't play well, look like they were picked too high etc. that is going to be talked about. Frank has struggled and on offense does not look like a point guard. I think that sucks and when he goes out and turns the ball over a bunch, doesn't score and shuns having possession of the ball after he passes half court it really sucks. His sucking on offense isn't as big a deal now because the Knicks are not playing for anything other than draft position. But I can't root for the Knicks to lose when I watch games so if someone sucks it frustrates me. Hopefully Frank plays better on offense for the last third of the season. I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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martin
Posts: 68680 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
2/17/2018 1:31 PM
CrushAlot wrote:technomaster wrote:So... putting on my Mr. Obvious hat... when learning the game of basketball, we're taught to move the ball if 1) we're double teamed or under pressure 2) we're not in a position to score or 3) someone else is in a better position to score. That's the game he's been taught.I think one of the more obvious problems with Frank is that he doesn't want to possess the ball after he crosses half court. Getting rid of the ball seems to be the goal more than setting up teammate for a better shot. Also, I can't remember Frank facing a double team. He gets rid of the ball before he has a second player commit to defending him. I don't watch Frank and think that I am seeing a better, more pure point guard because he isn't aggressive and doesn't put pressure on the defense. I don't see him as a guy that moves the ball so well because he is looking to set up his teammates. I see a guy that moves the ball because he doesn't want to have the ball after he crosses half court. WOW. I am literally just flabbergasted at a statement like the above. BTW, I do see the opposite, namely, a PG who just wants to play defense and pass the ball rather than score himself; still unsure of his own offense, lack of confidence, and more. Also, it's had to take those 2 separate statements together, the Not watching Frank and then any conclusion after that. BTW, part of the Knicks offense to to move the ball and players at the top of the 3 point line after crossing half court. They have been doing that all year. Frank and Jack. Jack doesn't do it as often, I'm guess because he is a vet and knows what he is doing out there and sees stuff better. I'm guessing that the Knicks employ this tactic to get both player and ball movement as a team. That's just simple. And more than just the Knicks do it. Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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CrushAlot
Posts: 59764 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/25/2003 Member: #452 USA |
2/17/2018 1:37 PM
martin wrote:I am off this week and I have some games on tape that I missed part of. I'll watch and see if I am overstating this with Frank. I do think it is a fault of his. He hits guys with passes in tough spots at times just to get rid of the ball.CrushAlot wrote:technomaster wrote:So... putting on my Mr. Obvious hat... when learning the game of basketball, we're taught to move the ball if 1) we're double teamed or under pressure 2) we're not in a position to score or 3) someone else is in a better position to score. That's the game he's been taught.I think one of the more obvious problems with Frank is that he doesn't want to possess the ball after he crosses half court. Getting rid of the ball seems to be the goal more than setting up teammate for a better shot. Also, I can't remember Frank facing a double team. He gets rid of the ball before he has a second player commit to defending him. I don't watch Frank and think that I am seeing a better, more pure point guard because he isn't aggressive and doesn't put pressure on the defense. I don't see him as a guy that moves the ball so well because he is looking to set up his teammates. I see a guy that moves the ball because he doesn't want to have the ball after he crosses half court. I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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martin
Posts: 68680 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
2/17/2018 1:44 PM
CrushAlot wrote:martin wrote:I am off this week and I have some games on tape that I missed part of. I'll watch and see if I am overstating this with Frank. I do think it is a fault of his. He hits guys with passes in tough spots at times just to get rid of the ball.CrushAlot wrote:technomaster wrote:So... putting on my Mr. Obvious hat... when learning the game of basketball, we're taught to move the ball if 1) we're double teamed or under pressure 2) we're not in a position to score or 3) someone else is in a better position to score. That's the game he's been taught.I think one of the more obvious problems with Frank is that he doesn't want to possess the ball after he crosses half court. Getting rid of the ball seems to be the goal more than setting up teammate for a better shot. Also, I can't remember Frank facing a double team. He gets rid of the ball before he has a second player commit to defending him. I don't watch Frank and think that I am seeing a better, more pure point guard because he isn't aggressive and doesn't put pressure on the defense. I don't see him as a guy that moves the ball so well because he is looking to set up his teammates. I see a guy that moves the ball because he doesn't want to have the ball after he crosses half court. .... Or he sees player movement really well and makes great passes? He also makes rookie bone head plays all the time too. Up to everyone to decide if they think Frank can be an elite level passer OR is just getting rid of the ball cause he can't stand having it in his own hands. Watch some of the early games in the year. You know the Knicks did to protect Frank? They had a SG on the opposite side of the court BEHIND him as an outlet player in cause Frank couldn't bring the ball up the court against pressure. Knicks have employed this over the past couple of years (or maybe just starting last year with Jeff). They were protecting Frank. They don't do that much any more cause he's OK there. Mostly, I'd guess, they start player and ball movement to help Frank out there too. Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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knicks1248
Posts: 42059 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #582 |
2/17/2018 1:49 PM LAST EDITED: 2/17/2018 1:51 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:again thats your opinion. But saying that the knicks dont have faith in him is inaccurate unless you have some inside info or something which i doubtNalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:200 post about a kid who is avg 5 points..The bottom line is, if he doesn't show a vast improvement next season he will be traded. Clearly the knicks don't have a lot of faith in him, or else they wouldn't be scouring the nba circut's for cheap pgs to help Faith in him right now, clearly the kid has potential, and no one is ever going to debate that, but i don't have faith in the knicks current coaching staff to develop him the right way in the right system. The idea should be to put much better players around him so he can learn and clearly the FO his struggling to do that because of what they have to work with..little to no assets or cap space. ES
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martin
Posts: 68680 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
2/17/2018 1:51 PM
man, IMHO, Knicks draft a kid who all he wants to do is set up his teammates and play D.... to a fault. To an extreme fault. So extreme it's gotten to his conscience and mucked up his confidence. Seems about right from someone who is 19. And we complain? Just got off of the opposite in Rose - all athleticism, score-first, no D, can't pass player - I'm savoring this opposite.
He is not a me-first PG. Got to get over that mentality that the Knicks have a scoring PG and, quite frankly, that they NEED one to succeed IMO. That is a benchmark that will not fly for this player. Does it mean Frank will succeed or succeed soon? Nope. If Frank goes backward after the start of this next season, I would be worried. Until then, watch and wait. All we hear is that he listens and learns, those are 2 keys to being successful. Now he got to put what he has heard into motion this summer and refine his game, instincts and body. Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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martin
Posts: 68680 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
2/17/2018 1:53 PM
knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:again thats your opinion. But saying that the knicks dont have faith in him is inaccurate unless you have some inside info or something which i doubtNalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:200 post about a kid who is avg 5 points..The bottom line is, if he doesn't show a vast improvement next season he will be traded. Clearly the knicks don't have a lot of faith in him, or else they wouldn't be scouring the nba circut's for cheap pgs to help They brought in Sessions and Jack to do just that, they've told everyone who would listen that very fact. You weren't paying attention. Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 12/28/2012 Member: #4451 |
2/17/2018 1:55 PM
martin wrote:thisknicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:again thats your opinion. But saying that the knicks dont have faith in him is inaccurate unless you have some inside info or something which i doubtNalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:200 post about a kid who is avg 5 points..The bottom line is, if he doesn't show a vast improvement next season he will be traded. Clearly the knicks don't have a lot of faith in him, or else they wouldn't be scouring the nba circut's for cheap pgs to help |
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GustavBahler
Posts: 41138 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
2/17/2018 1:56 PM
martin wrote:knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:again thats your opinion. But saying that the knicks dont have faith in him is inaccurate unless you have some inside info or something which i doubtNalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:200 post about a kid who is avg 5 points..The bottom line is, if he doesn't show a vast improvement next season he will be traded. Clearly the knicks don't have a lot of faith in him, or else they wouldn't be scouring the nba circut's for cheap pgs to help How much better were they? |
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Knixkik
Posts: 34908 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #11 USA |
2/17/2018 1:56 PM
knicks1248 wrote:200 post about a kid who is avg 5 points..The bottom line is, if he doesn't show a vast improvement next season he will be traded. Clearly the knicks don't have a lot of faith in him, or else they wouldn't be scouring the nba circut's for cheap pgs to help Picking up some stopgap PG help, or taking a flyer on a player like Mudiay in no way shows lack of faith in Frank. It shows that the Knicks don't want to put too much pressure on him to be a 30 mpg starter right away, because they know what the idiot Knicks fanbase will do to him as he struggles. Unfortunately, it is having the opposite effect, as many see it as a lack of confidence in his future role, instead of something intended to help him. Bottom line is we need multiple ball handlers. Jack won't be on the roster next year. Frank, Mudiay, and Burke will likely be the 3 PGs on the roster next year that the team will invest in, which is fine. We can't just roll with Frank alone. |
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martin
Posts: 68680 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
2/17/2018 1:58 PM
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:again thats your opinion. But saying that the knicks dont have faith in him is inaccurate unless you have some inside info or something which i doubtNalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:200 post about a kid who is avg 5 points..The bottom line is, if he doesn't show a vast improvement next season he will be traded. Clearly the knicks don't have a lot of faith in him, or else they wouldn't be scouring the nba circut's for cheap pgs to help On court production for the Knicks, not much and zero. But each has had success in the NBA to a degree. Their influence on Frank? TBD Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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knicks1248
Posts: 42059 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #582 |
2/17/2018 2:05 PM
martin wrote:man, IMHO, Knicks draft a kid who all he wants to do is set up his teammates and play D.... to a fault. To an extreme fault. So extreme it's gotten to his conscience and mucked up his confidence. Seems about right from someone who is 19. And we complain? Just got off of the opposite in Rose - all athleticism, score-first, no D, can't pass player - I'm savoring this opposite. I wasn't even aware that he played mostly off the ball last 2 season until i watched the scouting report. Which explains his suspect handle, and why teams trap him the minute he crosses the half court line. On the defensive end that some of you think is at NBA level, how is that when.. “Chasing Jodie Meeks, that’s something he’s probably not used to doing,” Hornacek said. “Jodie Meeks is a veteran guy in this league who’s come off those screens for years and made shots. We kind of went back with the veteran guys who have seen that and have covered it.” ES
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GustavBahler
Posts: 41138 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
2/17/2018 2:06 PM
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:again thats your opinion. But saying that the knicks dont have faith in him is inaccurate unless you have some inside info or something which i doubtNalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:200 post about a kid who is avg 5 points..The bottom line is, if he doesn't show a vast improvement next season he will be traded. Clearly the knicks don't have a lot of faith in him, or else they wouldn't be scouring the nba circut's for cheap pgs to help Yup. If Frank wasnt picked in the top ten, I doubt anyone would be antsy about how much of a project he is turning out to be. Baker was undrafted, his struggles were easier to deal with because we knew he was a low risk project. |
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meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
2/17/2018 2:16 PM
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:again thats your opinion. But saying that the knicks dont have faith in him is inaccurate unless you have some inside info or something which i doubtNalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:200 post about a kid who is avg 5 points..The bottom line is, if he doesn't show a vast improvement next season he will be traded. Clearly the knicks don't have a lot of faith in him, or else they wouldn't be scouring the nba circut's for cheap pgs to help Define what makes Frank high risk again. I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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GustavBahler
Posts: 41138 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
2/17/2018 2:19 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:again thats your opinion. But saying that the knicks dont have faith in him is inaccurate unless you have some inside info or something which i doubtNalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:200 post about a kid who is avg 5 points..The bottom line is, if he doesn't show a vast improvement next season he will be traded. Clearly the knicks don't have a lot of faith in him, or else they wouldn't be scouring the nba circut's for cheap pgs to help A high pick you have to wait years to see if the Knicks made the right call. |
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knicks1248
Posts: 42059 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #582 |
2/17/2018 2:22 PM
martin wrote:knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:again thats your opinion. But saying that the knicks dont have faith in him is inaccurate unless you have some inside info or something which i doubtNalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:200 post about a kid who is avg 5 points..The bottom line is, if he doesn't show a vast improvement next season he will be traded. Clearly the knicks don't have a lot of faith in him, or else they wouldn't be scouring the nba circut's for cheap pgs to help Those guys are not much better than him, they couldn't get a bag of rocks for Session to the point that had to waive him Jack and session were the only pg's avail for what they could have afforded . The knick were interested in every point guard that became available, (Irving, bledsoe, kemba) but didn't have the assets to get them, they would have shipped frank if noah could of been part of the package, and you would have been a fool not to. ES
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martin
Posts: 68680 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
2/17/2018 2:38 PM
knicks1248 wrote:martin wrote:man, IMHO, Knicks draft a kid who all he wants to do is set up his teammates and play D.... to a fault. To an extreme fault. So extreme it's gotten to his conscience and mucked up his confidence. Seems about right from someone who is 19. And we complain? Just got off of the opposite in Rose - all athleticism, score-first, no D, can't pass player - I'm savoring this opposite. Wait, what does Bradely Beal and Frank's defense have to do with each other? NOTHING Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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