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EMMANUEL MUDIAY VS. ELFRID PAYTON: A Little Nugget of Truth
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GrandDesign
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2/12/2018  8:14 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  8:29 PM
MUDIAY VS. PAYTON: A Little Nugget of Truth

(2/11/18, Copyright-protected with Myows)


** all stats current as of day trade was finalized **

Knicks fan here. I’m a freelance writer by trade with a growing portfolio. You won’t see me on Bleacher Report or one of those hack sites because I actually value my work and prefer to preserve copyrights. This was written yesterday on short notice...


Emmanuel Mudiay was New York’s big acquisition in the wake of Willy Hernangomez being scapegoated to Siberia last Wednesday, and some fans have come away disappointed and confused in the process. Wasn’t Elfrid Payton rumored to be their target? This is a quick write-up just to educate the doubters and curmudgeons out there. Hopefully, some of you will come away feeling a bit better about Scott Perry electing to trade for the mercurial Nugget instead. Let’s get to it, shall we?

So, right off the bat, Elfrid Payton and Emmanuel Mudiay seemed like near identical options at the trade deadline. They’re big, young, athletic point guards who crash the lane, can pass a little, and have equally suspect jumpshots. Same as Michael Carter Williams, same as Rondo, same as Rubio, same as Rose post-ACL, etc., etc. Payton is largely recognized as the more consistent, steady performer, whereas Mudiay’s stock as a prospect is based off his higher upside.

- Both players have a knack for half-court penetration and transition playmaking.
- They both suffer from general shooting woes.
- They’ve more or less failed to justify being drafted in the lottery (#6 and #10 respectively).
- Neither has met their defensive potential, despite having great physical metrics.

Yadda, yadda, yadda.

So that’s the general consensus, but this is where we come to a fork in the road with a big ass sign that says “THE TRUTH” (no, not Paul Pierce).

Let’s dig a little deeper and go down that road…


#1. ATHLETICISM

Mudiay is a much more explosive physical threat with higher upside, somewhat in the same mold as a young Tyreke Evans. He’s a bull. Although he doesn’t have elite hops or end-to-end speed, he does have elite change of direction, an elite first step, and creative footwork. These are signs of a player that can one day score effectively and adapt in half-court sets. He clearly has a strong MCL given his Dwyane Wade/Manu Ginobili-esque Euro-step (as you no doubt witnessed last night against the Pacers).

Payton is a good athlete with good height (6-4’) and a 35.5 inch vertical. (Mudiay sat out the combine, as did Porzingis by the way, but if I were to measure based on experience I’d speculate his vert is lower by a few inches). Elfrid is faster in the open court, due in large part to his superior ballhandling.

Unlike Payton, who is a bit of a stick, Mudiay has a bigger frame (listed at 6-5’, 200 lbs) with a wider wingspan (6-8.5’), which lends itself to bulking up to play the 2 or even the 3 if necessary (think Lance Stephenson). That kind of strong physique coupled with elite lateral quickness is exactly what allowed Lebron, for example, to be so versatile and flexible on defense in his prime – the ability to guard multiple positions well depending on the matchup. Mudiay has that potential. Payton, at 185 lbs soaking wet, does not. This is an important distinction, especially in today’s heavy emphasis on switching and position-less basketball.

Advantage: MUDIAY


#2. SCORING

I’ll get right to the gist and point out that Payton’s 52% FG percentage this season is a unique instance of a ginormously misleading, inflated statistic. On the surface, it looks great, sure. Among the best for guards in the NBA, in fact. Until you apply some context. 52% is by no means unimpressive, but when you account for all of his shooting numbers across the board you start to see a troubling pattern. He’s still dreadful from the charity stripe, in the low 60’s, and free throw shooting is the gold standard 99% of the time (Ricky Rubio serving as the exception to the rule). I don’t want my PG being a liability in the 4th quarter.

And while Elfrid’s pumped his 3-point accuracy up to 37%, that’s really just a flash in the pan: he’s doing it on only 1.5 attempts per game; hardly impactful. To that point, he doesn’t even make one 3 per game. He makes 0.6. Let that sink in. What DID happen, clearly, is that he’s restricted his offense to only the paint after having it drilled in his head that HE…CANNOT…SHOOT. Or maybe he’s scared to. I think it’s a combination of both. Either way, Elfrid’s scoring has reached a ceiling. To put it bluntly: even Ason Kidd (because he had no “J”) managed to improve to 80% at the line in his 4th year.

Payton’s had plenty of minutes and opportunities as a starter in Orlando under a good coach to mature. Instead, his production has become stagnant and leveled off, even his rebounding and oddly enough his FT attempts (same exact rate for 4 consecutive seasons). What you see is what you get with Elfrid Payton – a competent and unselfish, albeit limited, fast-pace point guard that legitimately can’t stroke it from distance, and actually avoids doing so.

Emmanuel, on the other hand, has shown much more promising improvements. His FG%, FT%, and 3 PT % are all simultaneously at career highs, despite wild fluctuations in minutes and shot attempts. In just his 3rd season he’s converting on over 80% from the line. He hits one 3 per game on 2.5 attempts at the exact same 37% as Payton, indicating he’ll be a more meaningful threat from deep in the future. One stat even shows him hovering near 60% from the corner. (Insert “Veray Nayce” thumbs up gif).

Feel free to look up their individual accuracy charts, but their PPS and PP100 (Points Per Shot and Points Per 100 Possessions) are basically a draw. Emmanuel is younger and surging in spite of the diminished role in Denver. Elfrid is older and has a trajectory that’s flattened out completely. All Mudiay needs to do to is consolidate his shot selection. That, and stop lunging his body into defenders and crashing to the floor like a big, drunk toddler. Seriously...he’s going to break his coccyx.

Advantage: EVEN, but MUDIAY long-term


#3. DEFENSE

“Advanced” stats show them both to be, well, awful. There’s really no point in trying to dissect who’s worse. As highlighted in the breakdown of their athleticism, however, I’ll take the kid who’s bigger, stronger, younger, with better lateral foot speed. Payton does rack up more steals, though. And if he ever gets back on track he might one day fulfill his vaunted defensive promise. Unfortunately, he’s regressed badly each year. This trend is frankly as disgusting as his combover, and in a contract year no less.

Considering the risk you’d have taken, forced to either resign him this offseason or outright lose him in free agency, I’d say a big, fat “No, thanks.” Mudiay has some time to figure things out, which may not be saying much. But it’s still something.

Advantage: EVEN, but Mudiay long-term


#4. PLAYMAKING

I’ll keep this short and sweet – Payton has been a better playmaker thus far his entire career. Every metric favors him. He dishes more assists with a higher A/T ratio to boot. That doesn’t necessarily make him a better or more cerebral PASSER. He’s not. It just means he’s a more conventional, more efficient PG.

It’s important to note that his assist numbers have, as alluded to, already leveled off at around 6.5 per game. He hasn’t improved, which is a glaring red flag. Mudiay, to his credit, did average 5.5 as a starter his rookie year, and has shown the ability to drop dimes with a high degree of difficulty. But he really needs to tone down those turnovers if he ever hopes to become a dependable floor general. Time will tell if he can.

Advantage: PAYTON


#5. COST CONTROL

Mudiay’s still on a cost-controlled rookie scale through next season. That can’t be overstated. Payton needs to be resigned THIS summer, with only a handful of games to assess his value (no Porzingis). And despite current predictions, it only takes one stupid GM (they replicate like Smallpox in the NBA) to offer him a bloated contract (Exhibit A: Phil Jackson). I expect him to receive a similar deal as Jordan Clarkson – somewhere in the ballpark of 4/48.

Oh, and they were essentially dealt for the same package – a middle of the pack 2nd round pick. So that’s a wash if it makes you feel any better. Dougie McBuckets had little value around the league and was included solely as a RFA salary filler, whereas the Suns simply ate Payton’s cost on their end (Knicks couldn’t straight up absorb Emmanuel since they’re over the cap).

This one’s a no brainer.

Advantage: MUDIAY


#6. HAIR

Mudiay needs to hit up a barber. Payton needs to take a chainsaw to that ferret on his head and drop it off at a mortuary.

Advantage: THE MORTICIAN

In summation, keep in mind it took Victor Oladipo 5 SEASONS (at age 25) to become an All-Star.

So…BE HAPPY, BE PATIENT KNICKS FANS. AND HAVE A GOOD MUDIAY.


If you enjoyed this article and appreciate the time and energy that went into it, leave a like, share it with a friend. If you have any topics you'd like seen covered in-depth, I'm open for requests depending on my availability.

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BRIGGS
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2/12/2018  9:19 PM
They both pretty much sck. No need to compare. If you want to win in the nba find a pg who can shoot a 3. What do yiu think about Mudiay against t j McDonnell? Th whooped his arse tonight
GrandDesign
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2/12/2018  9:28 PM
BRIGGS wrote:They both pretty much sck. No need to compare. If you want to win in the nba find a pg who can shoot a 3. What do yiu think about Mudiay against t j McDonnell? Th whooped his arse tonight

There was a need to compare. Because many fans have debated it. Post ran a story on it, too. Your illuminating (sarcasm) and wholly unnecessary, inflammatory comment sucks. Mudiay and Payton do not. The real question is why did you read my article, and then reply to it?

I feel nothing about his performance; I don't deal with 2 game sample sizes for a 21 year old. I leave that to idiots.

Lastly, learn to spell. And Mudiay's "arse" didn't get "whooped." TJ's a good player, and you sound drunk.

EnySpree
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2/12/2018  9:36 PM
BRIGGS wrote:They both pretty much sck. No need to compare. If you want to win in the nba find a pg who can shoot a 3. What do yiu think about Mudiay against t j McDonnell? Th whooped his arse tonight

Mudiay played 19 minutes to TJs 37....if you project Mudiay to double his minutes, Mudiay would have 14pts, 8 rebounds and 4 assists... so to say he beat his ass is over blown.


But let's talk about Frank going 21 minutes and only grabbing 2 rebounds.... nothing else. Tell me again who got their ass beat?

You know why I'm here....
BRIGGS
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2/12/2018  9:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  9:41 PM
GrandDesign wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:They both pretty much sck. No need to compare. If you want to win in the nba find a pg who can shoot a 3. What do yiu think about Mudiay against t j McDonnell? Th whooped his arse tonight

There was a need to compare. Because many fans have debated it. Post ran a story on it, too. Your illuminating (sarcasm) and wholly unnecessary, inflammatory comment sucks. Mudiay and Payton do not. The real question is why did you read my article, and then reply to it?

I feel nothing about his performance; I don't deal with 2 game sample sizes for a 21 year old. I leave that to idiots.

Lastly, learn to spell. And Mudiay's "arse" didn't get "whooped." TJ's a good player, and you sound drunk.


Mudiay got his area whooped tonight by T J Mcdonell-- nothing else. You do not win in the nba with a pg like Mudiay who simply can't shoot and plays a low iq game. Save all the stupid banter-- you don't win in the nba with a pg who can't shoot. That's is why Payton and Mudiay were dumped--

getting Mudiay for Doug is fine but I don't think it's a material move

Oh yeah Mudiay has scked for 3 years in the nba

CrushAlot
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2/12/2018  9:39 PM
GrandDesign wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:They both pretty much sck. No need to compare. If you want to win in the nba find a pg who can shoot a 3. What do yiu think about Mudiay against t j McDonnell? Th whooped his arse tonight

There was a need to compare. Because many fans have debated it. Post ran a story on it, too. Your illuminating (sarcasm) and wholly unnecessary, inflammatory comment sucks. Mudiay and Payton do not. The real question is why did you read my article, and then reply to it?

I feel nothing about his performance; I don't deal with 2 game sample sizes for a 21 year old. I leave that to idiots.

Lastly, learn to spell. And Mudiay's "arse" didn't get "whooped." TJ's a good player, and you sound drunk.

Most fans know Mudiay was picked 7th. Not sure what the data says about freelance writers.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
GrandDesign
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2/12/2018  9:42 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
Mudiay got his area whooped tonight by T J Mcdonell-- nothing else. You do not win in the nba with a pg like Mudiay who simply can't shoot and plays a low iq game. Save all the stupid banter-- you don't win in the nba with a pg who can't shoot. That's is why Payton and Mudiay were dumped--

You're repetitive and boring. Nothing else. No one's "area" was "whooped" tonight except for the Knicks as a team.

The only stupid banter is excreting from your soon to get banned, dumb ass mouth. You're drunk, it's obvious. Speaking of low IQ's, I'm nearly positive you're on the spectrum.

But yes, the Mavs I'm sure were quite satisfied seeing Jason Kidd lead the Nets to 2 straight Finals, having given up on him early in his career because he couldn't shoot. Then he only became an 80% player at the line and 9th All-Time in 3's made.

You're getting your ass whooped by me in these exchanges. Your game is low IQ. Save all YOUR ACTUAL banter and go to sleep, kid. It's past your bedtime.

GrandDesign
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2/12/2018  9:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  9:49 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Most fans know Mudiay was picked 7th. Not sure what the data says about freelance writers.

Most fans definitely do not know that. And if all you learned from the multiple paragraphs of information in that article is his lottery position, I'd say that says a lot about you as a reader and student of life in general.

"Not sure what the data says about freelance writers."

So because you're jealous that you can't write, you throw an obnoxious, nonsensical, head-scratching dig at me? LOL. F*ck off.

See - this is why intelligent ex-athletes can't mingle with you mongrels.

Stick to 4chan and bodybuilding.com.

You could have simply NOT REPLIED, and you'd have done well for yourself. Now go call your ol' pal Briggs, seeing as how you felt the pathetic need to white-knight for him/her randomly.

CRUSHED....A LOT.

BRIGGS
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2/12/2018  9:48 PM
GrandDesign wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Mudiay got his area whooped tonight by T J Mcdonell-- nothing else. You do not win in the nba with a pg like Mudiay who simply can't shoot and plays a low iq game. Save all the stupid banter-- you don't win in the nba with a pg who can't shoot. That's is why Payton and Mudiay were dumped--

You're repetitive and boring. Nothing else. No one's "area" was "whooped" tonight except for the Knicks as a team.

The only stupid banter is excreting from your soon to get banned, dumb ass mouth. You're drunk, it's obvious. Speaking of low IQ's, I'm nearly positive you're on the spectrum.

But yes, the Mavs I'm sure were quite satisfied seeing Jason Kidd lead the Nets to 2 straight Finals, having given up on him early in his career because he couldn't shoot. Then he only became an 80% player at the line and 9th All-Time in 3's made.

You're getting your ass whooped by me in these exchanges. Your game is low IQ. Save all YOUR ACTUAL banter and go to sleep, kid. It's past your bedtime.

Lol!!!!!! The warriors have the splash brothers we have the clank brothers! Let's hope we get pick 1 in the draft

GrandDesign
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2/12/2018  9:53 PM
BRIGGS wrote:

Lol!!!!!! The warriors have the splash brothers we have the clank brothers! Let's hope we get pick 1 in the draft

Those who utilize exclamation points in general tend to be attention whores and of relatively low intelligence. Nothing being said here is funny. Hardly even amusing.

And you know what they say about people with big mouths with napoleon complexes that, for example, type 6 !'s in a row...right?

They're challenged in certain organs.

Lastly, you're doing the opposite of upsetting me. I couldn't hardly give a **** about your childish euphemisms or labels for our players. I hope to God we shoot 35% the rest of the way and lose every single game and draft Doncic.

You lose.

BRIGGS
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2/12/2018  9:55 PM
GrandDesign wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Most fans know Mudiay was picked 7th. Not sure what the data says about freelance writers.

Most fans definitely do not know that. And if all you learned from the multiple paragraphs of information in that article is his lottery position, I'd say that says a lot about you as a reader and student of life in general.

"Not sure what the data says about freelance writers."

So because you're jealous that you can't write, you throw an obnoxious, nonsensical, head-scratching dig at me? LOL. F*ck off.

See - this is why intelligent ex-athletes can't mingle with you mongrels.

Stick to 4chan and bodybuilding.com.

You could have simply NOT REPLIED, and you'd have done well for yourself. Now go call your ol' pal Briggs, seeing as how you felt the pathetic need to white-knight for him/her randomly.

CRUSHED....A LOT.

The only stupid thing I've seen tonight is someone who wasted 3 hours writing a post comparing Mudiay and Payton-- why did you even write about Payton -- what exactly does that do for the Knicks?

Mudiay is an ok prospect but using the name j Kidd shows how much you know about badketball

GrandDesign
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2/12/2018  10:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  10:13 PM
BRIGGS wrote:

The only stupid thing I've seen tonight is someone who wasted 3 hours writing a post comparing Mudiay and Payton-- why did you even write about Payton -- what exactly does that do for the Knicks?

Mudiay is an ok prospect but using the name j Kidd shows how much you know about badketball

So it's that small, huh? Yeah, I figured. Between your frustration, horrible grammar, sloppy and drunken behavior, and general impotent aggression I can tell you're a flat out life-long loser. YOU ARE THE ONLY STUPID THING. Stop deflecting it and accept it.

There is no "stupid thing" about dedicating your life to something you've lived and love, you arrogant little child. The ONLY damn stupid thing you've seen tonight is yourself in the mirror, balding head and all. My posts make eloquent use of the english language. Because unlike you I'M EDUCATED. You pick up trash for a living. I'll spend however many minutes, hours, or days writing and your tears of anger and depression empower me to do it again.

I did the same thing every other journalist, reporter, writer, and commentator has done. INFORM PEOPLE.

What did I do for the Knicks? What kind of autistic question is that? I don't currently work for the Knicks; why would I have any desire or requirement to help them precisely? Oh right - you're attempting to segue way into some BS nonsense. I've just educated some fans about the new guy on the team.

WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE?

NOTHING.

Go back to picking up my trash. And hope we don't cross paths.

GrandDesign
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2/12/2018  10:07 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2018  10:19 PM
I used the name JKidd for "badketball"? You mean I provided an example that hurts your feelings because it disproves the narrative that you should give up on "he can't shoot" types. You mongoloid.

I've already proven in a single hour that I know far, FAR more about "badketball" than you ever have or will.

Now is "badketball" better or worse than goodketball?

BRIGGS
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2/12/2018  10:34 PM
GrandDesign wrote:I used the name JKidd for "badketball"? You mean I provided an example that hurts your feelings because it disproves the narrative that you should give up on "he can't shoot" types. You mongoloid.

I've already proven in a single hour that I know far, FAR more about "badketball" than you ever have or will.

Now is "badketball" better or worse than goodketball?

If I was looking at pg I'd look at three-to four things. Iq jumpshot intensity level and I'll throw in quickness-- I see you omit all4 from your " analysis". I think Mudiay can probably dunk better than steph curry!

GrandDesign
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2/12/2018  10:38 PM
BRIGGS wrote:

If I was looking at pg I'd look at three-to four things. Iq jumpshot intensity level and I'll throw in quickness-- I see you omit all4 from your " analysis". I think Mudiay can probably dunk better than steph curry!

Know your role and shut your mouth you inbred douche.

It's not "analysis," it's analysis. Because I analysed. Just like I'm ANALIZING you in my new thread.

I omitted nothing. You MIGHT want to look at the "Athleticism" paragraph. *Sigh* You're just retarded and deflecting attention away from your illiteracy by making up gobbledy gook. You should be taken out back and shot to rid the planet of your useless DNA from infecting some poor lady.

I also omitted commentary on Trump, and birds, and clouds, and your momma, by the way. She knows, though. She knows.

martin
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2/12/2018  10:45 PM
GrandDesign wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:

If I was looking at pg I'd look at three-to four things. Iq jumpshot intensity level and I'll throw in quickness-- I see you omit all4 from your " analysis". I think Mudiay can probably dunk better than steph curry!

Know your role and shut your mouth you inbred douche.

It's not "analysis," it's analysis. Because I analysed. Just like I'm ANALIZING you in my new thread.

I omitted nothing. You MIGHT want to look at the "Athleticism" paragraph. *Sigh* You're just retarded and deflecting attention away from your illiteracy by making up gobbledy gook. You should be taken out back and shot to rid the planet of your useless DNA from infecting some poor lady.

I also omitted commentary on Trump, and birds, and clouds, and your momma, by the way. She knows, though. She knows.

Haven't caught up with everything but please tone it down. Thanks.

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TLover
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2/12/2018  11:29 PM
Payton putting up some serious #’s against the Warriors tonight.

Same old Knicks in making the wrong decisions...

stopstandthere
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2/12/2018  11:41 PM
Let see how Mudiay will be developed here, give him some time.
Knixkik
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2/12/2018  11:47 PM
TLover wrote:Payton putting up some serious #’s against the Warriors tonight.

Same old Knicks in making the wrong decisions...

Knicks didn't want to pay Payton the big bucks this summer.

TheGame
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2/13/2018  12:12 AM
Knixkik wrote:
TLover wrote:Payton putting up some serious #’s against the Warriors tonight.

Same old Knicks in making the wrong decisions...

Knicks didn't want to pay Payton the big bucks this summer.

That pretty much sums it up. If Payton had one more rookie scaled year on his deal like Mudiay, we probably trade for Payton, who has shown himself to be at least a competent pg. But I am fine with the Mudiay deal.

Playoffs or bust
EMMANUEL MUDIAY VS. ELFRID PAYTON: A Little Nugget of Truth

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