[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Were you Team Mudiay or Team Latvia? (Honestly); Frank & Emmanuel Future Backcourt tandem?!?
Author Thread
SocraticBallin22
Posts: 23878
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/3/2015
Member: #6096

2/8/2018  4:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/8/2018  4:42 PM
Three years ago, there were many Knick fans (many of which were on this board) who were on Team Mudiay prior to the 2015 NBA draft over Team Latvia. I was one of them (see...I can admit it). We had not seen much of either prospects. KP was a 19 year old kid playing in Spain in a limited capacity and Mudiay decided to forego college and play professional ball in China. Both were international players--one from the Republic of China, the other from Latvia.

Luckily, probably the only good move Uncle Phil did while here was listen to Clarence Gaines and draft KP (and the Knick fans at the Garden boo'ed at the unknown, lanky international prospect reminiscent of Frederic Weis). Kp went 4; Mudiay went 7.

Three years later, prior to the trading deadline, KP suffers a season ending ACL injury with a long rehab awaiting where he may possibly miss even part of next season, and Mudiay finally becomes a Knick in a trade on the cheap.

There is no mistake about it, Mudiay has been a bad NBA player so far. He has not lived up to expectations and his games has regressed since his rookie season when he was named All-Rookie second team. He lost his starting job and played limited minutes this year off the bench as a backup. It was apparent that the Nuggets FO were done with

But let's take a look back three years ago on why he was so heavily touted by prospects and why many Knick fans wanted him to see why this was a good trade by Perry and the Knicks.

1) When you look at Mudiay, he has all the physical tools you would want from a top tier point guard prospect: 1) great size and strength at 6'5", athleticism and agility for that size and a lightning quick first step and speed. I think it would be generous to say that he has not put it all together yet (he's been terrible).

2) Also coming into the draft, he was touted as an unselfish, cerebral type pg who could get his teammates easy buckets from his penetration (something this team desperately lacks from a point guard).

All these physical tools and skills made him into a can't miss lottery prospect. So what happened? It's been 3 years. He's gotten worse. He's been a bust!

1) He has no consistent jump shot (and it has not improved while in the league). Until he develops into an average jump shooter and forces opposing teams to respect him from the perimeter, he will never become a starting pg in the NBA. This is his biggest weakness where he must improve in.

2) He fell out favor with the Denver FO. It's obvious they gave up on the guy and moved forward without him. Instead of developing him, they cut back his minutes and made him a very limited role player off the bench. Sometimes a situation is bad and a change of scenery is needed to develop and grow. The Knicks brass are hoping this is the case.

Why this trade works as a low risk?

Mudiay has been in the league 3 years (and has not shown much) but he still ONLY 21 years old. That is incredible. He would be a junior in college right now. He still has a chance to live up to his potential and still has tremendous upside as a project. The only way we were able to get him for McBuckets, who to me is a 1 trick pony--is how much of a let down he's been (but the raw talent is still there).

I digress.

To the subject of my post: Frank is still developing and is only 19 years old (one of the youngest players in the NBA). The jury is still out on him, but he has at least proven that he can at least be a defensive stopper and competent combo guard in the league. He still has tons of upside, as well.

Mudiay is 21 years old and fits the age trajectory and timeline to grow with Frank. He has the complete opposite skill set as Frank. His strength is to penetrate and get in the paint to create for himself and others. If you pair them together and let them grow together through experience and playing time, they could potentially form a formidable compliment to one another with their skill set in the backcourt. Frank can play off the ball; Mudiay can be on the ball and they can play off each other. It makes for an intriguing experiment, at least.

And now you have KP, who will be back next year and only 23 from the same draft class as Mudiay. 23, 22, 20 ( 3 young, promising players (nucleus) to build around; this is one of the youngest cores in the NBA)

It's a low risk, high reward move, which is why I like it. We did not give up anything to take a chance on Mudiay, who still has a chance to pan
out.

Kudos to Perry. These are the moves we should be making going forward in our legit rebuild. It's amazing that he was able to flip assets from the Melo deal (with dwindling value) into a prospect like Mudiay.

AUTOADVERT
WaltLongmire
Posts: 27559
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

2/8/2018  4:19 PM
I was adamant that we should not take Mudiay over KP. I actually thought he might be a good pick for Philly, though. I was happy, but surprised that the Sixers took OK4 given the size they had on the team at that time.

I remember the Lakers giving him a second workout, and reading that they had him going against potential 2nd rounders. They clearly saw something they didn't like in his game.

I know they did not like OK4 because of his D, wonder what the killer was for Mudiay?

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Welpee
Posts: 21974
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

2/8/2018  4:24 PM
I've said this a million times, I wanted either pick #1 or #4 because I wanted no part of Russell or Okafor. However, Mudiay was the guy I wanted and not KP.
GustavBahler
Posts: 34428
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

2/8/2018  4:27 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/8/2018  4:28 PM
I was team Russell, definitely did not want Mudiay. Aside from some maturity issues, I still wouldnt have a problem if the Knicks had drafted him. 22/7 pre injury.
BigRedDog
Posts: 21892
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 1/23/2004
Member: #569
2/8/2018  4:30 PM
KP all the way
Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
Welpee
Posts: 21974
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

2/8/2018  4:32 PM
Pre-draft

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/emmanuel-mudiay

NBA Comparison: John Wall
Strengths: Rare combination of size, speed, agility and athleticism to go with the vision and mentality of a point guard … Has great intangibles with natural leadership and communication skills ... Also an extremely competitive kid who rises in big situations and has a killer instinct ... Very quick first step and adept ball skills that really help him when attacking the basket … Showed in China he was adept at absorbing contact and still finishing the play ... Has added strength and was not overwhelmed by the pro game physically … Really difficult cover in transition, great at pushing the ball on the break with explosive ability to finish while also being an adept passer on the run ... While he possesses great quickness at 6’5, he's also quite good at using change of speed and direction … Good passer, has run the point throughout his life and is a creative passer who is good at finding his teammates in scoring position … Very good at creating for himself, getting to spots where he can get good looks at the basket … Understands the pick-and-roll quite well, should thrive as he learns to run it against NBA competition … Really good with the in-out dribble, particularly with his strong right hand … Has shown real ability to finish at the basket with either hand … With his size and strength, can post-up, and punish smaller guards … Great feel for the game ... Shooting mechanics and balance seem to be improving since his time in the pros … Length and lateral quickness could make him a strong defender in time, definitely seems willing to put in work as a defender … Very strong rebounder for a guard, good nose for the ball and covers a lot of ground … While he does at times force the issue, China showed that he is leaning more on his strengths and has a greater knowledge of what he does best … Averaged 31.5 mpg and seems to be a candidate to get well accustomed to NBA level conditioning … At only 19-years of age, already has a great knowledge of the game, seems to be quite willing to learn and has ability to fill out his solid physique even more so … Showed a level of perseverance by staying in China to recuperate from his ankle injury to play in Guangdong’s last two games, when some just believed he would head home and prepare for the draft … Competitor, consistently gives a strong effort and shows a great deal of confidence in his ability ..
EnySpree
Posts: 44729
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

2/8/2018  4:32 PM
I was prepared to draft Mudiay.... I'm happy about the move. I think he's better than Frank. Frank might actually be better at off guard.... still alot of career left tto grow though
You know why I'm here....
Welpee
Posts: 21974
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

2/8/2018  4:37 PM
EnySpree wrote:I was prepared to draft Mudiay.... I'm happy about the move. I think he's better than Frank. Frank might actually be better at off guard.... still alot of career left tto grow though
So do we waive Jack to give him an opportunity to latch on to a playoff team or keep Jack, Mudiay, Frank and Burke? Is Jack's vet leadership still needed?
CrushAlot
Posts: 56900
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
2/8/2018  4:38 PM
I think I wanted Mudiay. Saw some workout/game footage that reminded me of Jason Kidd at CAl around the draft. Also, he was one of the highest rated in his class coming out of high school. Top 3? I am really excited that he is a Knick.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
SRacide
Posts: 20026
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/29/2017
Member: #7604

2/8/2018  4:42 PM
Mudiay better than Frank? Lol

We have to play both together

Frank in PG and Mudiay instead of THJ?

Welpee
Posts: 21974
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/22/2016
Member: #6239

2/8/2018  4:48 PM
CrushAlot wrote:I think I wanted Mudiay. Saw some workout/game footage that reminded me of Jason Kidd at CAl around the draft. Also, he was one of the highest rated in his class coming out of high school. Top 3? I am really excited that he is a Knick.
Hopefully Denver mishandled him and coming to NY provides a spark to reach his pre-draft potential.
GustavBahler
Posts: 34428
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

2/8/2018  4:49 PM
My red flag for Mudiay was that he was a lousy shooter in China, where they dont play D. Didnt want to imagine how he would do in the NBA.
WaltLongmire
Posts: 27559
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

2/8/2018  4:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/8/2018  5:00 PM
Not the first page of Draft Night 2015, but around the time the Sixers take OK4...

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51580&page=7

Good times.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
EnySpree
Posts: 44729
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

2/8/2018  5:03 PM
SRacide wrote:Mudiay better than Frank? Lol

We have to play both together

Frank in PG and Mudiay instead of THJ?

Frank is getting 5pts, 2 rebs and 3 assists per in 20 minutes art 19....

Mudiay was 12, 3 rebounds and 5 assists in 30 min at 19...

You know why I'm here....
CrushAlot
Posts: 56900
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
2/8/2018  5:05 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:Not the first page of Draft Night 2015, but around the time the Sixers take OK4...

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51580&page=7

Good times.

That was an awesome night.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
blkexec
Posts: 24593
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/3/2004
Member: #748
2/8/2018  5:14 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:Not the first page of Draft Night 2015, but around the time the Sixers take OK4...

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=51580&page=7

Good times.

That was an awesome night.

Yep....had to search and make sure I didn't say anything dumb. But I did see some current poster make bold and erroneous statements about KP.

Looks like Mudiay and WCS was thought to be the hidden gems of the draft. Who do we trade for next? WCS?

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
EnySpree
Posts: 44729
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

2/8/2018  5:27 PM
Welpee wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I was prepared to draft Mudiay.... I'm happy about the move. I think he's better than Frank. Frank might actually be better at off guard.... still alot of career left tto grow though
So do we waive Jack to give him an opportunity to latch on to a playoff team or keep Jack, Mudiay, Frank and Burke? Is Jack's vet leadership still needed?

That's up to Jack I think. I don't think he should play another game for us but if he wanted to stay on the team for the year, I dont see a problem.

You know why I'm here....
Chandler
Posts: 22556
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197

2/8/2018  5:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/8/2018  5:36 PM
I was team Latvia (but not without some reservation -- mostly that his famous shooting video showed an annoying tendency to lower his hands after he caught a pass)

I was against Mudiay mostly because Larry Brown was raving about him and as good a coach as he is he has a horrible drafting record

*I should add I hope we can turn him around. it seems like a reasonable gamble. McD was not consistent, and Beasly was outplaying him (never thought I would utter those words)

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
SRacide
Posts: 20026
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/29/2017
Member: #7604

2/8/2018  5:43 PM
EnySpree wrote:
SRacide wrote:Mudiay better than Frank? Lol

We have to play both together

Frank in PG and Mudiay instead of THJ?

Frank is getting 5pts, 2 rebs and 3 assists per in 20 minutes art 19....

Mudiay was 12, 3 rebounds and 5 assists in 30 min at 19...

yes, but Mudiay is he as strong as 19?

What is the message for Franck?

WaltLongmire
Posts: 27559
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843

2/8/2018  7:08 PM
SRacide wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
SRacide wrote:Mudiay better than Frank? Lol

We have to play both together

Frank in PG and Mudiay instead of THJ?

Frank is getting 5pts, 2 rebs and 3 assists per in 20 minutes art 19....

Mudiay was 12, 3 rebounds and 5 assists in 30 min at 19...

yes, but Mudiay is he as strong as 19?

What is the message for Franck?


Mudiay was more developed at 19 than Frank, but he seems to have gotten bigger since his rookie year. I remember looking at Mudiay's face his rookie year and, remembering the Latino players who used to scam MLB by saying they were younger than they were, used to think that that Mudiay really wasn't 19. Felt the same about Byombo, I think.
EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Were you Team Mudiay or Team Latvia? (Honestly); Frank & Emmanuel Future Backcourt tandem?!?

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.