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Stunned that we couldn't deal Lee and/or KOQ.
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WaltLongmire
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2/8/2018  3:44 PM
These are two guys who can legitimately fit in on playoff caliber teams.

KOQ is a quality backup C who can block shots and pass, and he's improved his midrange shot over the years. Hard to believe we couldn't get something of value for him from a team on a playoff run. KOQ will also, undoubtedly, opt out next season, since his next contract is probably his best chance for a decent contract. Now we have him for the rest of this year, and probably lose him next year...Makes little sense.

Lee is having a career year, is on a reasonable contract, and after this year, if he was a FA, might have been able to command about $15M/yr. The other issue with Lee is that as long as he is on the team Dotson is going to ride the pine. I'd like to see what Dotson could do with regular and extended minutes...that will not happen now, I guess.

Both play good D for their positions and both are good in the locker room.

I know there is something out there about teams not dealing and waiting for waiver pickups, and that there are always cap issues which limit trades, but these are two guys I thought we could get something for.

Would have preferred keeping Willy, picking up Mudiay the way we did, and trading Lee and KOQ.

Surprised at how things worked out.

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Nalod
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2/8/2018  3:49 PM
Most trading deadlines produce great hopes.
We apply our own values and reading the UK has no value basis.
If we say over and over "At least get a 2nd rounder for........" enought times we start to apply that expectation.
Not based on any tangible valuation. Is it unreasonable? Not really. But Who really needs KOQ as a finishing piece?
Of the trades done, how many were rotational players? You want to see dotson, I wnat to see dotson. Why do we have to trade Clee? Just play the kid.
I doubt we find a better player in the 2nd round ready to play over Clee. There is next season to consider.
Anger sells, don't buy!
fishmike
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2/8/2018  3:50 PM
yes and no. The problem isnt the desire, its making trades in the CBA. Its tough when you have to match salaries.

Im sure teams would have given us a 2nd rounder for KOQ like Payton, but they have to send a player back. Same with Lee. We have to take back a player with making about $12mm or include other pieces and you end up with deals neither of you really like.

Also good teams like GS can draft a mature role player and have a cost controlled roster player for 3-4 years for cheap. Teams just dont give that up like they used to.

In an ideal world we younger or picks for Lee or KOQ but you need another team to join in on that

Melo is ranked 38 on defense. Probably one of the best PF defenders in the league -HofstraBBall (1/24/2018)
Nalod
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2/8/2018  3:53 PM
fishmike wrote:yes and no. The problem isnt the desire, its making trades in the CBA. Its tough when you have to match salaries.

Im sure teams would have given us a 2nd rounder for KOQ like Payton, but they have to send a player back. Same with Lee. We have to take back a player with making about $12mm or include other pieces and you end up with deals neither of you really like.

Also good teams like GS can draft a mature role player and have a cost controlled roster player for 3-4 years for cheap. Teams just dont give that up like they used to.

In an ideal world we younger or picks for Lee or KOQ but you need another team to join in on that

Payton went for a 2nd rounder. That was cheap.
KOQ CAME from Orlando, not always a good thing to send him back.
Never saw the Mundiay thing coming.

Anger sells, don't buy!
Nalod
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2/8/2018  3:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/8/2018  3:56 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:These are two guys who can legitimately fit in on playoff caliber teams.

KOQ is a quality backup C who can block shots and pass, and he's improved his midrange shot over the years. Hard to believe we couldn't get something of value for him from a team on a playoff run. KOQ will also, undoubtedly, opt out next season, since his next contract is probably his best chance for a decent contract. Now we have him for the rest of this year, and probably lose him next year...Makes little sense.

Lee is having a career year, is on a reasonable contract, and after this year, if he was a FA, might have been able to command about $15M/yr. The other issue with Lee is that as long as he is on the team Dotson is going to ride the pine. I'd like to see what Dotson could do with regular and extended minutes...that will not happen now, I guess.

Both play good D for their positions and both are good in the locker room.

I know there is something out there about teams not dealing and waiting for waiver pickups, and that there are always cap issues which limit trades, but these are two guys I thought we could get something for.

Would have preferred keeping Willy, picking up Mudiay the way we did, and trading Lee and KOQ.

Surprised at how things worked out.

This was the environment.

Several teams tell ESPN that they're already easing out of the trade market today to focus on filling needs with what is expected to be a strong post-deadline pool of free agents in the buyout market.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) February 8, 2018

Anger sells, don't buy!
WaltLongmire
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2/8/2018  3:57 PM
Nalod wrote:Most trading deadlines produce great hopes.
We apply our own values and reading the UK has no value basis.
If we say over and over "At least get a 2nd rounder for........" enought times we start to apply that expectation.
Not based on any tangible valuation. Is it unreasonable? Not really. But Who really needs KOQ as a finishing piece?
Of the trades done, how many were rotational players? You want to see dotson, I wnat to see dotson. Why do we have to trade Clee? Just play the kid.
I doubt we find a better player in the 2nd round ready to play over Clee. There is next season to consider.

Actually...with all the numbers fit, and team like the Cavs could have used a KOQ. I wouldn't want to take on a Thomas, but in terms of fit, he would have been a decent fit on Cleveland.

As Crush pointed out, Lee would have been a perfect fit on the Thunder, but they are cap challenged, and when I looked at their roster, there was not much there that I would have wanted in a salary swap.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
WaltLongmire
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2/8/2018  3:59 PM
Nalod wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:These are two guys who can legitimately fit in on playoff caliber teams.

KOQ is a quality backup C who can block shots and pass, and he's improved his midrange shot over the years. Hard to believe we couldn't get something of value for him from a team on a playoff run. KOQ will also, undoubtedly, opt out next season, since his next contract is probably his best chance for a decent contract. Now we have him for the rest of this year, and probably lose him next year...Makes little sense.

Lee is having a career year, is on a reasonable contract, and after this year, if he was a FA, might have been able to command about $15M/yr. The other issue with Lee is that as long as he is on the team Dotson is going to ride the pine. I'd like to see what Dotson could do with regular and extended minutes...that will not happen now, I guess.

Both play good D for their positions and both are good in the locker room.

I know there is something out there about teams not dealing and waiting for waiver pickups, and that there are always cap issues which limit trades, but these are two guys I thought we could get something for.

Would have preferred keeping Willy, picking up Mudiay the way we did, and trading Lee and KOQ.

Surprised at how things worked out.

This was the environment.

Several teams tell ESPN that they're already easing out of the trade market today to focus on filling needs with what is expected to be a strong post-deadline pool of free agents in the buyout market.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) February 8, 2018

Yeah, I had seen the Woj quote...kind of referred to it.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
SkyWalker
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2/8/2018  4:02 PM
I guess the Knicks figure that if the market this summer for KO is not crazy high that perhaps they can keep him at a reasonable salary. I mean, it's not like KO is going to get a multi year offer at $14 million per right? I would think maybe a 3-4 year contract at $8 million per which is not insane. If teams are really strapped for cash and things tighten up then maybe KO can be had for 6-7 million per year which is reasonable.
Kenny SkyWalker
BigDaddyG
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2/8/2018  4:03 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:
Nalod wrote:Most trading deadlines produce great hopes.
We apply our own values and reading the UK has no value basis.
If we say over and over "At least get a 2nd rounder for........" enought times we start to apply that expectation.
Not based on any tangible valuation. Is it unreasonable? Not really. But Who really needs KOQ as a finishing piece?
Of the trades done, how many were rotational players? You want to see dotson, I wnat to see dotson. Why do we have to trade Clee? Just play the kid.
I doubt we find a better player in the 2nd round ready to play over Clee. There is next season to consider.

Actually...with all the numbers fit, and team like the Cavs could have used a KOQ. I wouldn't want to take on a Thomas, but in terms of fit, he would have been a decent fit on Cleveland.

As Crush pointed out, Lee would have been a perfect fit on the Thunder, but they are cap challenged, and when I looked at their roster, there was not much there that I would have wanted in a salary swap.


OKC would've been the most obvious choice to deal with, but yeah, they have nothing intriguing they can give up, aside from Ferguson.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
SkyWalker
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2/8/2018  4:06 PM
Lee is a nice player. Would have been good to trade him but who is to say he can't be traded in the offseason? Not worth giving him away for next to nothing. He still has 2 more years left and provides good veteran leadership for the young guys.
Kenny SkyWalker
SkyWalker
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2/8/2018  4:08 PM
I would hope they start to play Lee less minutes as he is getting older and better to not have as much wear and tear on his body and to give the young guys chance to develop. I would think that if he is a team player he would understand the Knicks situation and be ok with it.
Kenny SkyWalker
Bonn1997
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2/8/2018  4:09 PM
Maybe they're planning to keep these guys long-term. We lost Willy. KP is questionable for part of next year and not really a center anyway. You do need 2 centers.
SocraticBallin22
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2/8/2018  4:10 PM
I know Lee is 32 but he was having a career year and can really help a contending team. I can't believe he couldn't garner a late 1st? For instance, why wouldn't OKC do a Ferguson for Lee trade straight up?
WaltLongmire
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2/8/2018  4:10 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Nalod wrote:Most trading deadlines produce great hopes.
We apply our own values and reading the UK has no value basis.
If we say over and over "At least get a 2nd rounder for........" enought times we start to apply that expectation.
Not based on any tangible valuation. Is it unreasonable? Not really. But Who really needs KOQ as a finishing piece?
Of the trades done, how many were rotational players? You want to see dotson, I wnat to see dotson. Why do we have to trade Clee? Just play the kid.
I doubt we find a better player in the 2nd round ready to play over Clee. There is next season to consider.

Actually...with all the numbers fit, and team like the Cavs could have used a KOQ. I wouldn't want to take on a Thomas, but in terms of fit, he would have been a decent fit on Cleveland.

As Crush pointed out, Lee would have been a perfect fit on the Thunder, but they are cap challenged, and when I looked at their roster, there was not much there that I would have wanted in a salary swap.


OKC would've been the most obvious choice to deal with, but yeah, they have nothing intriguing they can give up, aside from Ferguson.

Who would not have been a salary match, anyway.
EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
WaltLongmire
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2/8/2018  4:12 PM
SocraticBallin22 wrote:I know Lee is 32 but he was having a career year and can really help a contending team. I can't believe he couldn't garner a late 1st? For instance, why wouldn't OKC do a Ferguson for Lee trade straight up?

Not a fit in terms of the salary cap...OKC has the 3rd highest payroll at about $132M, I think.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
HofstraBBall
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2/8/2018  4:12 PM
Disappointed but hard to say without knowing what was offered. However, with Hood, Namce Jr and Payton traded for not much, seems like they could have done a little better.

Will be harder to take if KO walks after the year. Which i think he will. So anything in return would have been better.

Don't mind keeping Lee. If scraps were being offered. Not like we need cap room yet.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
WaltLongmire
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2/8/2018  4:14 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:Maybe they're planning to keep these guys long-term. We lost Willy. KP is questionable for part of next year and not really a center anyway. You do need 2 centers.

Something to consider, though you will have to reward KOQ with a better contract...not saying he doesn't deserve one, and opting out is the logical thing for him to do, but would the Knicks be willing to give him $7-10M/yr ?

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
knicks1248
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2/8/2018  4:16 PM
They may waive quin
ES
MaTT4281
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2/8/2018  4:18 PM
knicks1248 wrote:They may waive quin

Why would they do that?


Doesn't seem malcontent.
"I must break you." - Kristaps Porzingis to Rocky Balboa
WaltLongmire
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2/8/2018  4:22 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:Disappointed but hard to say without knowing what was offered. However, with Hood, Namce Jr and Payton traded for not much, seems like they could have done a little better.

Will be harder to take if KO walks after the year. Which i think he will. So anything in return would have been better.

Don't mind keeping Lee. If scraps were being offered. Not like we need cap room yet.


This is true...one of the articles or tweets said we wanted a young athletic player in return...We have no idea who was offered.

I like Lee, though...has become a leader and an efficient player. I was looking forward to seeing Dotson getting more playing time, though, and let's face it...keeping Lee and KOQ makes it harder to tank.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Stunned that we couldn't deal Lee and/or KOQ.

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