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Some Reality Checks Here
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Knixkik
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2/7/2018  11:24 AM
No doubt this is a bad injury, and not much positive spin from this. But i am really hating myself for getting sucked into the back and forth with the doom and gloom crowd, and i won't continue.

Bottom line is this;

1. This injury will take time, but likely won't affect his long-term career. He's 22 years old. He's not a speedy guard. ACL tear won't disrupt his shooting touch or ability to shoot over people. What it will likely affect is his style of play, as he will inevitably make adjustments as any developing player should. But he can still become a Dirk-type player. He can still be a franchise player, this injury aside. The other side is the various injuries may prevent him from playing complete seasons, but this particular injury was a freak injury that should not dictate how people view his future. He will still be 23 years old when he gets healthy, with the ability to dominate the game in the same ways.

2. Some people will get their wish, better draft odds. We will have the opportunity to draft a player who can become part of the future. Assuming next year becomes another rebuilding year with Porzingis still out for the beginning, it will be a great opportunity for a rookie to have a typical up and down rookie year, and Frank to make another jump. When Porzingis is back to his normal self the following year, that 2018 pick is hopefully making a nice second year jump, and Frank will be a 3rd year player and high level starter. Basically, my point is this doesn't really change the timeline that much. This team still needed talent and time, and the rest of this year and next year should be focused on player development as Porzingis gets reintegrated as the number one guy.

There is no way to know what will happen long-term, but this particular injury certainly won't derail my opinion of Porzingis and his long-term potential, given how early in his career this occurred. This is the Knicks so bad things tend to happen, but instead of making it worse, focus on development and hope for the best.

AUTOADVERT
HofstraBBall
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2/7/2018  11:36 AM
Knixkik wrote:No doubt this is a bad injury, and not much positive spin from this. But i am really hating myself for getting sucked into the back and forth with the doom and gloom crowd, and i won't continue.

Bottom line is this;

1. This injury will take time, but likely won't affect his long-term career. He's 22 years old. He's not a speedy guard. ACL tear won't disrupt his shooting touch or ability to shoot over people. What it will likely affect is his style of play, as he will inevitably make adjustments as any developing player should. But he can still become a Dirk-type player. He can still be a franchise player, this injury aside. The other side is the various injuries may prevent him from playing complete seasons, but this particular injury was a freak injury that should not dictate how people view his future. He will still be 23 years old when he gets healthy, with the ability to dominate the game in the same ways.

2. Some people will get their wish, better draft odds. We will have the opportunity to draft a player who can become part of the future. Assuming next year becomes another rebuilding year with Porzingis still out for the beginning, it will be a great opportunity for a rookie to have a typical up and down rookie year, and Frank to make another jump. When Porzingis is back to his normal self the following year, that 2018 pick is hopefully making a nice second year jump, and Frank will be a 3rd year player and high level starter. Basically, my point is this doesn't really change the timeline that much. This team still needed talent and time, and the rest of this year and next year should be focused on player development as Porzingis gets reintegrated as the number one guy.

There is no way to know what will happen long-term, but this particular injury certainly won't derail my opinion of Porzingis and his long-term potential, given how early in his career this occurred. This is the Knicks so bad things tend to happen, but instead of making it worse, focus on development and hope for the best.

Can I have what your on? Cheers. Hard for anyone to have a positve spin after last night but I give you a lot of credit.

Doom and gloom? That is for something that is doing welll and headed in the wrong direction. The last 4 years have been more of a "Heads in the Sand" narrative. This injury has now made it, "The Fat lady has song and its time to watch some college basketball"

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
technomaster
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2/7/2018  11:41 AM
The rationale here is valid, though painted a little optimistic. :) I'm hopeful too that he's basically taking a 1 year pause on his career and he'll be able to resume none the worse.

This was written a number of years ago when Derrick Rose got hurt.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1177651-10-nba-players-that-suffered-torn-acls-and-recovered-better-than-ever

Of course we all know that Rose was never the same player again.

Then there's this article from ESPN Today - on the bottom half there's a section which features a long term impact of ACL injuries on young players' (age 21-23) development.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22351198/fallout-kristaps-porzingis-acl-tear-nba

That particular study is pulled down particularly by the lack of awesomeness of Derrick Rose and Ricky Rubio - though they note that the players that fared the worst after the injuries were players that weren't good shooters to begin with. KP's a mobile player, but shooting is supposed to be one of his standout skills.

In any case, I think another thread pointed out that there are a number of teams that have wins in the teens. At 23 wins, we really need to suck to fall back into that group. It's going to be painful, and unfortunately for Horny, he's damned if he wins and damned if he loses (as losing a lot likely means he's going to lose his job, whether his fault or not).

The GM can certainly help by trading away any valuable assets and reducing our talent level further.

With KP out for the season and THJr, I reckon this is now Kanter's team. I'm curious if Horny will keep playing him the same (and turn Beasley into our lead scorer), or elevate him to #1 scoring option.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
Knixkik
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2/7/2018  11:44 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knixkik wrote:No doubt this is a bad injury, and not much positive spin from this. But i am really hating myself for getting sucked into the back and forth with the doom and gloom crowd, and i won't continue.

Bottom line is this;

1. This injury will take time, but likely won't affect his long-term career. He's 22 years old. He's not a speedy guard. ACL tear won't disrupt his shooting touch or ability to shoot over people. What it will likely affect is his style of play, as he will inevitably make adjustments as any developing player should. But he can still become a Dirk-type player. He can still be a franchise player, this injury aside. The other side is the various injuries may prevent him from playing complete seasons, but this particular injury was a freak injury that should not dictate how people view his future. He will still be 23 years old when he gets healthy, with the ability to dominate the game in the same ways.

2. Some people will get their wish, better draft odds. We will have the opportunity to draft a player who can become part of the future. Assuming next year becomes another rebuilding year with Porzingis still out for the beginning, it will be a great opportunity for a rookie to have a typical up and down rookie year, and Frank to make another jump. When Porzingis is back to his normal self the following year, that 2018 pick is hopefully making a nice second year jump, and Frank will be a 3rd year player and high level starter. Basically, my point is this doesn't really change the timeline that much. This team still needed talent and time, and the rest of this year and next year should be focused on player development as Porzingis gets reintegrated as the number one guy.

There is no way to know what will happen long-term, but this particular injury certainly won't derail my opinion of Porzingis and his long-term potential, given how early in his career this occurred. This is the Knicks so bad things tend to happen, but instead of making it worse, focus on development and hope for the best.

Can I have what your on? Cheers. Hard for anyone to have a positve spin after last night but I give you a lot of credit.

Doom and gloom? That is for something that is doing welll and headed in the wrong direction. The last 4 years have been more of a "Heads in the Sand" narrative. This injury has now made it, "The Fat lady has song and its time to watch some college basketball"


It's not so much positive spin, but i'm just buying that whole "his career is over" type stuff. It's 2018. ACL's aren't a big deal and certainly doesn't change his game that much, as his best skills have nothing to do with his speed.
HofstraBBall
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2/7/2018  12:24 PM
Knixkik wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knixkik wrote:No doubt this is a bad injury, and not much positive spin from this. But i am really hating myself for getting sucked into the back and forth with the doom and gloom crowd, and i won't continue.

Bottom line is this;

1. This injury will take time, but likely won't affect his long-term career. He's 22 years old. He's not a speedy guard. ACL tear won't disrupt his shooting touch or ability to shoot over people. What it will likely affect is his style of play, as he will inevitably make adjustments as any developing player should. But he can still become a Dirk-type player. He can still be a franchise player, this injury aside. The other side is the various injuries may prevent him from playing complete seasons, but this particular injury was a freak injury that should not dictate how people view his future. He will still be 23 years old when he gets healthy, with the ability to dominate the game in the same ways.

2. Some people will get their wish, better draft odds. We will have the opportunity to draft a player who can become part of the future. Assuming next year becomes another rebuilding year with Porzingis still out for the beginning, it will be a great opportunity for a rookie to have a typical up and down rookie year, and Frank to make another jump. When Porzingis is back to his normal self the following year, that 2018 pick is hopefully making a nice second year jump, and Frank will be a 3rd year player and high level starter. Basically, my point is this doesn't really change the timeline that much. This team still needed talent and time, and the rest of this year and next year should be focused on player development as Porzingis gets reintegrated as the number one guy.

There is no way to know what will happen long-term, but this particular injury certainly won't derail my opinion of Porzingis and his long-term potential, given how early in his career this occurred. This is the Knicks so bad things tend to happen, but instead of making it worse, focus on development and hope for the best.

Can I have what your on? Cheers. Hard for anyone to have a positve spin after last night but I give you a lot of credit.

Doom and gloom? That is for something that is doing welll and headed in the wrong direction. The last 4 years have been more of a "Heads in the Sand" narrative. This injury has now made it, "The Fat lady has song and its time to watch some college basketball"


It's not so much positive spin, but i'm just buying that whole "his career is over" type stuff. It's 2018. ACL's aren't a big deal and certainly doesn't change his game that much, as his best skills have nothing to do with his speed.

Agree. He can overcome the injury. Still cant say its not a kick in the balls.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
Knixkik
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2/7/2018  12:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/7/2018  12:28 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Knixkik wrote:No doubt this is a bad injury, and not much positive spin from this. But i am really hating myself for getting sucked into the back and forth with the doom and gloom crowd, and i won't continue.

Bottom line is this;

1. This injury will take time, but likely won't affect his long-term career. He's 22 years old. He's not a speedy guard. ACL tear won't disrupt his shooting touch or ability to shoot over people. What it will likely affect is his style of play, as he will inevitably make adjustments as any developing player should. But he can still become a Dirk-type player. He can still be a franchise player, this injury aside. The other side is the various injuries may prevent him from playing complete seasons, but this particular injury was a freak injury that should not dictate how people view his future. He will still be 23 years old when he gets healthy, with the ability to dominate the game in the same ways.

2. Some people will get their wish, better draft odds. We will have the opportunity to draft a player who can become part of the future. Assuming next year becomes another rebuilding year with Porzingis still out for the beginning, it will be a great opportunity for a rookie to have a typical up and down rookie year, and Frank to make another jump. When Porzingis is back to his normal self the following year, that 2018 pick is hopefully making a nice second year jump, and Frank will be a 3rd year player and high level starter. Basically, my point is this doesn't really change the timeline that much. This team still needed talent and time, and the rest of this year and next year should be focused on player development as Porzingis gets reintegrated as the number one guy.

There is no way to know what will happen long-term, but this particular injury certainly won't derail my opinion of Porzingis and his long-term potential, given how early in his career this occurred. This is the Knicks so bad things tend to happen, but instead of making it worse, focus on development and hope for the best.

Can I have what your on? Cheers. Hard for anyone to have a positve spin after last night but I give you a lot of credit.

Doom and gloom? That is for something that is doing welll and headed in the wrong direction. The last 4 years have been more of a "Heads in the Sand" narrative. This injury has now made it, "The Fat lady has song and its time to watch some college basketball"


It's not so much positive spin, but i'm just buying that whole "his career is over" type stuff. It's 2018. ACL's aren't a big deal and certainly doesn't change his game that much, as his best skills have nothing to do with his speed.

Agree. He can overcome the injury. Still cant say its not a kick in the balls.


Oh it absolutely is. Thankfully we have draft picks.

Gudris
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2/7/2018  1:08 PM
This injury is best case scenario for KP and Knicks

1) KP will come back stronger and smarter, this year he already looked tired and developing bad habits
2) Knicks have time to develop team and players who can win without KP, this is better for KP and team overall

we are not going to playoffs this year anyway, so all this bullkrap is a good thing for everybody

Knixkik
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2/7/2018  2:53 PM
Gudris wrote:This injury is best case scenario for KP and Knicks

1) KP will come back stronger and smarter, this year he already looked tired and developing bad habits
2) Knicks have time to develop team and players who can win without KP, this is better for KP and team overall

we are not going to playoffs this year anyway, so all this bullkrap is a good thing for everybody

Thank you for this and i hope you're right. Not sure if best case scenario is the right term, but i agree some positives can come out of this. Most important thing is he's only 22 and this injury should have no impact on him long-term.

HofstraBBall
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2/7/2018  3:07 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/7/2018  3:08 PM
Gudris wrote:This injury is best case scenario for KP and Knicks

1) KP will come back stronger and smarter, this year he already looked tired and developing bad habits
2) Knicks have time to develop team and players who can win without KP, this is better for KP and team overall

we are not going to playoffs this year anyway, so all this bullkrap is a good thing for everybody

Sorry. But I think this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Besides Trump being called Mr. President

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
Nalod
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2/7/2018  4:32 PM
Messiahs are always tested. GodZingis is.
Anger sells, don't buy!
GustavBahler
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2/7/2018  5:51 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/7/2018  5:55 PM
Dirk became "Dirk" when he stopped playing almost exclusively on the perimeter, and started taking it to the rim. It was just before he won a ring.

KP might not be able to drive like he used to. Porzingis doesnt have to come back with a dribble drive to be a star. Its about getting better in other areas like a post game, rebounding, boxing out under the rim, and being an effective passer out of a double team, or single coverage.

Arvydas Sabonis wasnt known as a distributor when he entered the league, long after his prime. Still ended up being maybe the best passing center in the league at the time.

KP can use this as a challenge to become a more well rounded player. I believe he can do it.

Knixkik
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2/7/2018  7:34 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Dirk became "Dirk" when he stopped playing almost exclusively on the perimeter, and started taking it to the rim. It was just before he won a ring.

KP might not be able to drive like he used to. Porzingis doesnt have to come back with a dribble drive to be a star. Its about getting better in other areas like a post game, rebounding, boxing out under the rim, and being an effective passer out of a double team, or single coverage.

Arvydas Sabonis wasnt known as a distributor when he entered the league, long after his prime. Still ended up being maybe the best passing center in the league at the time.

KP can use this as a challenge to become a more well rounded player. I believe he can do it.

I think the key for him will be to watch a lot of film and really study. Learn how to read and react to what defenses threw at him this season. He can improve while rehabbing. Shooting, strength training, and watching film can all be done during his rehab and will make him a better player when he's healthy.

meloshouldgo
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2/7/2018  7:49 PM
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Dirk became "Dirk" when he stopped playing almost exclusively on the perimeter, and started taking it to the rim. It was just before he won a ring.

KP might not be able to drive like he used to. Porzingis doesnt have to come back with a dribble drive to be a star. Its about getting better in other areas like a post game, rebounding, boxing out under the rim, and being an effective passer out of a double team, or single coverage.

Arvydas Sabonis wasnt known as a distributor when he entered the league, long after his prime. Still ended up being maybe the best passing center in the league at the time.

KP can use this as a challenge to become a more well rounded player. I believe he can do it.

I think the key for him will be to watch a lot of film and really study. Learn how to read and react to what defenses threw at him this season. He can improve while rehabbing. Shooting, strength training, and watching film can all be done during his rehab and will make him a better player when he's healthy.

Honestly hoping that's what he focuses on instead of trying to rush the healing process

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
GustavBahler
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2/7/2018  8:06 PM
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Dirk became "Dirk" when he stopped playing almost exclusively on the perimeter, and started taking it to the rim. It was just before he won a ring.

KP might not be able to drive like he used to. Porzingis doesnt have to come back with a dribble drive to be a star. Its about getting better in other areas like a post game, rebounding, boxing out under the rim, and being an effective passer out of a double team, or single coverage.

Arvydas Sabonis wasnt known as a distributor when he entered the league, long after his prime. Still ended up being maybe the best passing center in the league at the time.

KP can use this as a challenge to become a more well rounded player. I believe he can do it.

I think the key for him will be to watch a lot of film and really study. Learn how to read and react to what defenses threw at him this season. He can improve while rehabbing. Shooting, strength training, and watching film can all be done during his rehab and will make him a better player when he's healthy.

Watching film alone wont do it. Has to practice, work on his game.

Knixkik
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2/7/2018  8:29 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Dirk became "Dirk" when he stopped playing almost exclusively on the perimeter, and started taking it to the rim. It was just before he won a ring.

KP might not be able to drive like he used to. Porzingis doesnt have to come back with a dribble drive to be a star. Its about getting better in other areas like a post game, rebounding, boxing out under the rim, and being an effective passer out of a double team, or single coverage.

Arvydas Sabonis wasnt known as a distributor when he entered the league, long after his prime. Still ended up being maybe the best passing center in the league at the time.

KP can use this as a challenge to become a more well rounded player. I believe he can do it.

I think the key for him will be to watch a lot of film and really study. Learn how to read and react to what defenses threw at him this season. He can improve while rehabbing. Shooting, strength training, and watching film can all be done during his rehab and will make him a better player when he's healthy.

Watching film alone wont do it. Has to practice, work on his game.

Shooting, strength training, and specialized training sessions. He doesn't have to be playing pickup to improve. If anything, he can save some mileage.

GustavBahler
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2/7/2018  8:37 PM
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Dirk became "Dirk" when he stopped playing almost exclusively on the perimeter, and started taking it to the rim. It was just before he won a ring.

KP might not be able to drive like he used to. Porzingis doesnt have to come back with a dribble drive to be a star. Its about getting better in other areas like a post game, rebounding, boxing out under the rim, and being an effective passer out of a double team, or single coverage.

Arvydas Sabonis wasnt known as a distributor when he entered the league, long after his prime. Still ended up being maybe the best passing center in the league at the time.

KP can use this as a challenge to become a more well rounded player. I believe he can do it.

I think the key for him will be to watch a lot of film and really study. Learn how to read and react to what defenses threw at him this season. He can improve while rehabbing. Shooting, strength training, and watching film can all be done during his rehab and will make him a better player when he's healthy.

Watching film alone wont do it. Has to practice, work on his game.

Shooting, strength training, and specialized training sessions. He doesn't have to be playing pickup to improve. If anything, he can save some mileage.

Is "pick up game" your new favorite expression? Because your are applying it to working with a trainer, practicing post moves. None of these things requires KP to play in pickup games.

KP will have to play in some the road, not full contact. You cant get back from an injury like that and return to the team like nothing ever happened.

Knixkik
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2/7/2018  9:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/7/2018  9:04 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Dirk became "Dirk" when he stopped playing almost exclusively on the perimeter, and started taking it to the rim. It was just before he won a ring.

KP might not be able to drive like he used to. Porzingis doesnt have to come back with a dribble drive to be a star. Its about getting better in other areas like a post game, rebounding, boxing out under the rim, and being an effective passer out of a double team, or single coverage.

Arvydas Sabonis wasnt known as a distributor when he entered the league, long after his prime. Still ended up being maybe the best passing center in the league at the time.

KP can use this as a challenge to become a more well rounded player. I believe he can do it.

I think the key for him will be to watch a lot of film and really study. Learn how to read and react to what defenses threw at him this season. He can improve while rehabbing. Shooting, strength training, and watching film can all be done during his rehab and will make him a better player when he's healthy.

Watching film alone wont do it. Has to practice, work on his game.

Shooting, strength training, and specialized training sessions. He doesn't have to be playing pickup to improve. If anything, he can save some mileage.

Is "pick up game" your new favorite expression? Because your are applying it to working with a trainer, practicing post moves. None of these things requires KP to play in pickup games.

KP will have to play in some the road, not full contact. You cant get back from an injury like that and return to the team like nothing ever happened.

Specialized training sessions is what i said and meant. Working with trainers practicing in the post. These are things he should be ready to do by late summer, during the later stages of his rehab.

GustavBahler
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2/7/2018  9:12 PM
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Dirk became "Dirk" when he stopped playing almost exclusively on the perimeter, and started taking it to the rim. It was just before he won a ring.

KP might not be able to drive like he used to. Porzingis doesnt have to come back with a dribble drive to be a star. Its about getting better in other areas like a post game, rebounding, boxing out under the rim, and being an effective passer out of a double team, or single coverage.

Arvydas Sabonis wasnt known as a distributor when he entered the league, long after his prime. Still ended up being maybe the best passing center in the league at the time.

KP can use this as a challenge to become a more well rounded player. I believe he can do it.

I think the key for him will be to watch a lot of film and really study. Learn how to read and react to what defenses threw at him this season. He can improve while rehabbing. Shooting, strength training, and watching film can all be done during his rehab and will make him a better player when he's healthy.

Watching film alone wont do it. Has to practice, work on his game.

Shooting, strength training, and specialized training sessions. He doesn't have to be playing pickup to improve. If anything, he can save some mileage.

Is "pick up game" your new favorite expression? Because your are applying it to working with a trainer, practicing post moves. None of these things requires KP to play in pickup games.

KP will have to play in some the road, not full contact. You cant get back from an injury like that and return to the team like nothing ever happened.

Specialized training sessions is what i said and meant. Working with trainers practicing in the post. These are things he should be ready to do by late summer, during the later stages of his rehab.

No one (especially me) is suggesting KP rush back and start playing pick up games. So Im not sure why you keep responding with that point.

Zebo13
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2/7/2018  10:23 PM
Send him to Rucker Park straight away!
Knixkik
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2/7/2018  10:28 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Dirk became "Dirk" when he stopped playing almost exclusively on the perimeter, and started taking it to the rim. It was just before he won a ring.

KP might not be able to drive like he used to. Porzingis doesnt have to come back with a dribble drive to be a star. Its about getting better in other areas like a post game, rebounding, boxing out under the rim, and being an effective passer out of a double team, or single coverage.

Arvydas Sabonis wasnt known as a distributor when he entered the league, long after his prime. Still ended up being maybe the best passing center in the league at the time.

KP can use this as a challenge to become a more well rounded player. I believe he can do it.

I think the key for him will be to watch a lot of film and really study. Learn how to read and react to what defenses threw at him this season. He can improve while rehabbing. Shooting, strength training, and watching film can all be done during his rehab and will make him a better player when he's healthy.

Watching film alone wont do it. Has to practice, work on his game.

Shooting, strength training, and specialized training sessions. He doesn't have to be playing pickup to improve. If anything, he can save some mileage.

Is "pick up game" your new favorite expression? Because your are applying it to working with a trainer, practicing post moves. None of these things requires KP to play in pickup games.

KP will have to play in some the road, not full contact. You cant get back from an injury like that and return to the team like nothing ever happened.

Specialized training sessions is what i said and meant. Working with trainers practicing in the post. These are things he should be ready to do by late summer, during the later stages of his rehab.

No one (especially me) is suggesting KP rush back and start playing pick up games. So Im not sure why you keep responding with that point.

Not sure where you're confused. We are talking about the same thing. He will need to practice and train, which he can do during the latter stages of rehab. He doesn't need to play full contact to improve.

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