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Teams needs shooting brains and athletic role players in that order
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Finestrg
Posts: 27296
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/1/2006
Member: #1069

2/6/2018  9:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/6/2018  9:29 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:
martin wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:C Wood has just kept getting better and better in the G league--when will a team realize how to use him in the NBA? What exactly do the KNicks have to lose?

Answer this first: why hasn't 1 team called him up or signed him to an offseason, non guaranteed contract?

Who gives a flyin' F???!!!! What the hell kind of criteria is that to go by?? Why did the Dow Jones plummet over 1100 points yesterday? People are afraid of what they don't know, I don't know, and I don't care what anyone else thinks!!! Neither should you. Thing is they should know about this dude by now, he's only been ripping up the GL for the past few seasons. This guy's better than KOQ and 100X better than LT, NOT EVEN CLOSE..I've seen him play and see the value. End of story. And he has had cups of coffee in the NBA and performed well btw. Just hasn't been able to stick. Come on man, you know better than anyone that the NBA's a numbers game. Counting the GL (and the incoming drafted/select few undrafted players every year), there's just too many good players now and not enough teams and roster spots (which is why I brought up possible expansion the other day). The issue here is when there are better players available in the GL then there are on my favorite team's roster AND we stink! Clearly the case here.

KOQ, Kanter, KP, Willy. Who you sitting so that the coveted Woods get minutes that no other team in the league will touch?


Why not see if he can do it. WHiteside languished for a few years before he put it all together and now is one of the top C's in the league.

Worth a shot.

Good point, good comparison. Agreed.

AUTOADVERT
Finestrg
Posts: 27296
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Joined: 1/1/2006
Member: #1069

2/6/2018  9:37 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:My 4 names in this draft for the KNICKS

#1 Gary Trent SG

#2 Jalen Brunson PG

#3 Chandler Hutchinson SF

#4 Tyus Battle Athetic wing

I like that draft plan A LOT. What to do in the meantime? Approx. 30 games to go. Do we sit on our hands or try to do some minor things within reason that could build toward a better future?

Not sure if we can swing it but I'd love to see them clear 3, possibly 4 roster spots right away, maybe by buying out Noah, buying out or simply cutting Lance Thomas and trading both O'Quinn and Lee (tough because we'd have to bring back players in those two deals to equal salaries -- I'd be hoping for a lot of garbage we can just waive immediately, but I understand if that's not plausible). The 3 players I'd bring in: Cat Barber, Christian Wood and Brandon Ashley. I also wouldn't be against bringing in Khem Birch and Janis Timma from Orlando in some package (I see good value there), and I'd attempt to pry Antonio Blakeney from Chicago somehow. But say we only managed to import Barber, Wood and Ashley --

For the remainder of the year evaluate the following:

5 - Kanter
4 - KP
3 - THJ
2 - Dotson
1 - Burke
---------------------
5 - Hernangomez
4 - Wood
3/4 - Beasley
3/4 - Ashley (a player that could make Beasley expendable)
3 - McDermott
2/1 - Barber
2/1 - Ntilikina

Jack and Ron Baker OUT (Baker's injured anyway). That's a big rotation (12 guys) but in the interest of finding out who's a keeper and who's not, I'd be willing to run all 12 guys. I might even trim Beasley (maybe explain to him that he's already a keeper for next year --OR-- maybe he winds up going in a trade himself at the deadline here if we can get back enough value. Playing Beasley the rest of this season really does nothing for us--he's performed well and we already know what he can do. So do other teams out there). Things would work themselves out--start with the 12 then let the cream rise to the top--maybe Barber outplays Frank (and Dotson?), what if Barber turns out to be an even better pro than Burke?, maybe Ashley outplays McDermott (and makes us rethink bringing back Beasley next season), re-establish Hernangomez and build him back up to the player we saw last year, etc.. I honestly think this wouldn't be a bad plan right now--should've been executed weeks ago in fact. If we could somehow find a few keepers here with Barber, Wood and Ashley THEN ADD a Gary Trent and Jalen Brunson this summer, a nice fresh foundation would be laid.

Real quick on Trent Jr. -- just curious if he's more Dell Curry than Klay Thompson. Also, I'd really want to find out what I had with Dotson. How similar is he to Trent? Is Trent that much better? Same type of effective shooter in college + Dotson's looked real good in the G-League. Suppose we already have this type of player on board with Dotson? Maybe we could then take the best rugged big man at that spot in the draft instead, whether that's Carter, Robert Williams, McCoy, etc.. Or a legit SF in the lottery like Mikal or Miles Bridges. I'd also like to bring Dotson's value up to the point where we could consider trading him, maybe to the Bulls to bring back what might very well be an even better young 2G like an Antonio Blakeney. A lot of possibilities here.

First off fine let me say you are easily a top poster on this site for a very long time. Highly knowledgable and respectful as well. That is a great great question I.e is Trent curry or Thompson. Fine I think Curry would be much better in this era-- he might be something like Thompson-- maybe Trent is in between those two. Will there be a better player at 11-12-- maybe. On top of which Trent hasn't shown a part of a near requirement( a dribble drive game) but looking at his hs tapes he has it in him. He's perfect two guard size 6-6 215 he's got long arms and a high level nba skill a potential elite shooter. I'm kind of looking T done of the better teams and looking at how we can assimilate. I have to think the plan is to move Kp to center and to increase the space Kp will get in the post if we surround with better perimeter players. I'm also very high on brunson as he runs the best offense so well and avg 20-5-3 shooting efg 65% now can he do that at 6.1/5 200 pounds in the nba? That's a question but I've thought yes for well over a year. A guy like Sexton is physically more imposing for a pg-- he's also a lock to go top 9 but is sexton a thinking mans player-- not yet. I might be willing to take more of a fit than a better talent. I also really like Hutchinson and battle as the athletic in between guys that would make brunson kp thj so much better-- but it's also not realistic -- maybe we can get involved with burton in free agency?well see

C. Wood. He plays well in a faster tempo I'm not sure why he doesn't play on the nba were not privvy to everything but in terms of gabe you'd think a team like the suns would pick h up knicks right now we have so many issues w big men -- wood is probably not a radar guy for the k icks

Thanks man. That's nice to say and much appreciated! Same to you.

Yeah, interested to see how good Trent Jr. can be. Great shooter but I do see some limitation there. Also curious if we already have our own version of this guy with Daymean Dotson. I'd love to dust this kid off and get him some court time. We could get him a good 30 game look here. I think that's worth it to us. Great call on Brunson (my buddy and I have watched him a few times on TV--we're both big fans) and I like this kid Hutchinson too. Never even heard of him before you started talking about him but I've since looked at a lot of tape--def. looks like an NBA player and a guy that could help us..

BRIGGS
Posts: 50392
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Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
2/6/2018  10:17 PM
Finestrg wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Finestrg wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:My 4 names in this draft for the KNICKS

#1 Gary Trent SG

#2 Jalen Brunson PG

#3 Chandler Hutchinson SF

#4 Tyus Battle Athetic wing

I like that draft plan A LOT. What to do in the meantime? Approx. 30 games to go. Do we sit on our hands or try to do some minor things within reason that could build toward a better future?

Not sure if we can swing it but I'd love to see them clear 3, possibly 4 roster spots right away, maybe by buying out Noah, buying out or simply cutting Lance Thomas and trading both O'Quinn and Lee (tough because we'd have to bring back players in those two deals to equal salaries -- I'd be hoping for a lot of garbage we can just waive immediately, but I understand if that's not plausible). The 3 players I'd bring in: Cat Barber, Christian Wood and Brandon Ashley. I also wouldn't be against bringing in Khem Birch and Janis Timma from Orlando in some package (I see good value there), and I'd attempt to pry Antonio Blakeney from Chicago somehow. But say we only managed to import Barber, Wood and Ashley --

For the remainder of the year evaluate the following:

5 - Kanter
4 - KP
3 - THJ
2 - Dotson
1 - Burke
---------------------
5 - Hernangomez
4 - Wood
3/4 - Beasley
3/4 - Ashley (a player that could make Beasley expendable)
3 - McDermott
2/1 - Barber
2/1 - Ntilikina

Jack and Ron Baker OUT (Baker's injured anyway). That's a big rotation (12 guys) but in the interest of finding out who's a keeper and who's not, I'd be willing to run all 12 guys. I might even trim Beasley (maybe explain to him that he's already a keeper for next year --OR-- maybe he winds up going in a trade himself at the deadline here if we can get back enough value. Playing Beasley the rest of this season really does nothing for us--he's performed well and we already know what he can do. So do other teams out there). Things would work themselves out--start with the 12 then let the cream rise to the top--maybe Barber outplays Frank (and Dotson?), what if Barber turns out to be an even better pro than Burke?, maybe Ashley outplays McDermott (and makes us rethink bringing back Beasley next season), re-establish Hernangomez and build him back up to the player we saw last year, etc.. I honestly think this wouldn't be a bad plan right now--should've been executed weeks ago in fact. If we could somehow find a few keepers here with Barber, Wood and Ashley THEN ADD a Gary Trent and Jalen Brunson this summer, a nice fresh foundation would be laid.

Real quick on Trent Jr. -- just curious if he's more Dell Curry than Klay Thompson. Also, I'd really want to find out what I had with Dotson. How similar is he to Trent? Is Trent that much better? Same type of effective shooter in college + Dotson's looked real good in the G-League. Suppose we already have this type of player on board with Dotson? Maybe we could then take the best rugged big man at that spot in the draft instead, whether that's Carter, Robert Williams, McCoy, etc.. Or a legit SF in the lottery like Mikal or Miles Bridges. I'd also like to bring Dotson's value up to the point where we could consider trading him, maybe to the Bulls to bring back what might very well be an even better young 2G like an Antonio Blakeney. A lot of possibilities here.

First off fine let me say you are easily a top poster on this site for a very long time. Highly knowledgable and respectful as well. That is a great great question I.e is Trent curry or Thompson. Fine I think Curry would be much better in this era-- he might be something like Thompson-- maybe Trent is in between those two. Will there be a better player at 11-12-- maybe. On top of which Trent hasn't shown a part of a near requirement( a dribble drive game) but looking at his hs tapes he has it in him. He's perfect two guard size 6-6 215 he's got long arms and a high level nba skill a potential elite shooter. I'm kind of looking T done of the better teams and looking at how we can assimilate. I have to think the plan is to move Kp to center and to increase the space Kp will get in the post if we surround with better perimeter players. I'm also very high on brunson as he runs the best offense so well and avg 20-5-3 shooting efg 65% now can he do that at 6.1/5 200 pounds in the nba? That's a question but I've thought yes for well over a year. A guy like Sexton is physically more imposing for a pg-- he's also a lock to go top 9 but is sexton a thinking mans player-- not yet. I might be willing to take more of a fit than a better talent. I also really like Hutchinson and battle as the athletic in between guys that would make brunson kp thj so much better-- but it's also not realistic -- maybe we can get involved with burton in free agency?well see

C. Wood. He plays well in a faster tempo I'm not sure why he doesn't play on the nba were not privvy to everything but in terms of gabe you'd think a team like the suns would pick h up knicks right now we have so many issues w big men -- wood is probably not a radar guy for the k icks

Thanks man. That's nice to say and much appreciated! Same to you.

Yeah, interested to see how good Trent Jr. can be. Great shooter but I do see some limitation there. Also curious if we already have our own version of this guy with Daymean Dotson. I'd love to dust this kid off and get him some court time. We could get him a good 30 game look here. I think that's worth it to us. Great call on Brunson (my buddy and I have watched him a few times on TV--we're both big fans) and I like this kid Hutchinson too. Never even heard of him before you started talking about him but I've since looked at a lot of tape--def. looks like an NBA player and a guy that could help us..

Jees many of my thoughts may get thrown out the window with kp being hurt like this. Now we need to focus on losing ALOT and hopefully getting a chance at one of the top guys.

martin
Posts: 47523
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Joined: 7/24/2001
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USA
2/7/2018  12:34 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
Finestrg wrote:I've seen him play and see the value. End of story. And he has had cups of coffee in the NBA and performed well btw. Just hasn't been able to stick. Come on man, you know better than anyone that the NBA's a numbers game. Counting the GL (and the incoming drafted/select few undrafted players every year), there's just too many good players now and not enough teams and roster spots

About 12 percent of the entire male adult population in the United States is 6 feet tall or over. And this is ALL AGE RANGES. The average male height in the US is about 5'8. When you go 6'5 and over, the numbers just disappear. We are talking a tiny fraction of the population. Then there are the athleticism requirements. You can't just be big, you also have to be healthy and coordinated and have speed rare for that size.

Based on the "height dependency" the NBA virtually requires, your assertion that there is talent surplus makes no sense. If there was a talent surplus, the draft would be longer than 2 rounds. More teams would be competitive far more quickly. Many veteran players would have much shorter careers because they would be cycled out by superior and younger and cheaper talent ( Not just taking about a Jason Kidd type, but there's a reason guys like Tony Massenburg, Terry Cummings and Kevin Willis hung around so long. Sean Marks was an NBA player before a GM and he carved out a decade long career as a pretty lousy player)

As for Christian Wood, he has the raw talent to be an NBA starter and a could have been a high first round pick on that raw talent alone. Except he's seen privately around the league as a psychotic douchebag. Think about that. This is a league full of solid guys, but also criminals, rapists, thieves, drug dealers, murderers, there are some real scum in the NBA ranks. Not all of this is public, but the NBA is a very small niche community, and even Christian Wood is too much of a douchebag for them. So what does that say? If you told Christian Wood to turn left, he wouldn't turn right. He'd just set fire to an orphanage. Trust me, if one day TMZ had Ntilikina getting stabbed by a Game Of Thrones replica ax, everyone's first thought should be, wow, Christian Wood got promoted.

Even a worthless POS like a Tracy McGrady or a Rip Hamilton or a Baron Davis ( I'm talking a truly toxic worthless POS here) would tell Christian Wood to go take a Xanax.

There is something legit wrong with Christian Wood as a human being. If you want Jeff Hornacek to coach him, you better give Jeff a Glock first.

Body like Tarzan. Mentality like Jane if Jane was a whored out cum guzzling Tinder slut who has crack whore eyes and a really ****ty teeth. And smells bad too. I just added that in for flair. I'm big on flair. Did I mention the crack whore eyes?

Thanks, seems about right.

Finestrg, what you and BRIGGS seems to not get is that NBA teams are drooling for uncovered diamonds, athletic dudes who play basketball and fall head over heals for the kids in the draft and overseas and bank MILLIONS of dollars on finding the next best thing. Bank their jobs, their careers, EVERYTHING.

I literally know ZERO about anyone in the NBA and it's easy to see that some guys who should easily make it to the NBA based off of athleticism and a modicum of basketball ability dont make it or are fringe guys who are on and off teams.... and yet don't. Meet Gerald Green and our own Beasley; may be the nicest teammates and have a 30 point game or 2 every year and yet still cant make a team when guys like Jose Calderon at 40 are still chugging away 10 years after he was effective as a player.

Bad characters, poor off court dudes, lack of motivation, hasn't gotten life together yet, dumb as block dudes, need to figure out if he wants to be a professional, sleeps with teammates wifes, smokes waaayyyy too much, take your pick.

If and when a player is repeatedly in the G league and is dominating and still can't make it to the NBA, SOMETHING IS UP. OR, you can bash your head against a wall and post over and over and over and over again that YOU FOUND A GUY WHO NO ONE ELSE HAS DISCOVERED AND SHOULD BE GIVEN A CHANCE, JUST GIVE HIM MINUTES AND BREAK THE BACK OF YOU WHOLE ORGANIZATION CAUSE YOU JUST FUCKED YOURSELF

Every once in a million someone straightens out. Whiteside cleaned up for a couple of seasons, held it together.... AAANNNNDDD as soon as he got his contract, bleh. Coach doesn't even trust him any more and I'd bet a LOT of money that Whiteside lacks motivation these days and Miami and coach in particular want him OFF THE TEAM.

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Finestrg
Posts: 27296
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/1/2006
Member: #1069

2/7/2018  1:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/7/2018  1:55 AM
martin wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
Finestrg wrote:I've seen him play and see the value. End of story. And he has had cups of coffee in the NBA and performed well btw. Just hasn't been able to stick. Come on man, you know better than anyone that the NBA's a numbers game. Counting the GL (and the incoming drafted/select few undrafted players every year), there's just too many good players now and not enough teams and roster spots

About 12 percent of the entire male adult population in the United States is 6 feet tall or over. And this is ALL AGE RANGES. The average male height in the US is about 5'8. When you go 6'5 and over, the numbers just disappear. We are talking a tiny fraction of the population. Then there are the athleticism requirements. You can't just be big, you also have to be healthy and coordinated and have speed rare for that size.

Based on the "height dependency" the NBA virtually requires, your assertion that there is talent surplus makes no sense. If there was a talent surplus, the draft would be longer than 2 rounds. More teams would be competitive far more quickly. Many veteran players would have much shorter careers because they would be cycled out by superior and younger and cheaper talent ( Not just taking about a Jason Kidd type, but there's a reason guys like Tony Massenburg, Terry Cummings and Kevin Willis hung around so long. Sean Marks was an NBA player before a GM and he carved out a decade long career as a pretty lousy player)

As for Christian Wood, he has the raw talent to be an NBA starter and a could have been a high first round pick on that raw talent alone. Except he's seen privately around the league as a psychotic douchebag. Think about that. This is a league full of solid guys, but also criminals, rapists, thieves, drug dealers, murderers, there are some real scum in the NBA ranks. Not all of this is public, but the NBA is a very small niche community, and even Christian Wood is too much of a douchebag for them. So what does that say? If you told Christian Wood to turn left, he wouldn't turn right. He'd just set fire to an orphanage. Trust me, if one day TMZ had Ntilikina getting stabbed by a Game Of Thrones replica ax, everyone's first thought should be, wow, Christian Wood got promoted.

Even a worthless POS like a Tracy McGrady or a Rip Hamilton or a Baron Davis ( I'm talking a truly toxic worthless POS here) would tell Christian Wood to go take a Xanax.

There is something legit wrong with Christian Wood as a human being. If you want Jeff Hornacek to coach him, you better give Jeff a Glock first.

Body like Tarzan. Mentality like Jane if Jane was a whored out cum guzzling Tinder slut who has crack whore eyes and a really ****ty teeth. And smells bad too. I just added that in for flair. I'm big on flair. Did I mention the crack whore eyes?

Thanks, seems about right.

Finestrg, what you and BRIGGS seems to not get is that NBA teams are drooling for uncovered diamonds, athletic dudes who play basketball and fall head over heals for the kids in the draft and overseas and bank MILLIONS of dollars on finding the next best thing. Bank their jobs, their careers, EVERYTHING.

I literally know ZERO about anyone in the NBA and it's easy to see that some guys who should easily make it to the NBA based off of athleticism and a modicum of basketball ability dont make it or are fringe guys who are on and off teams.... and yet don't. Meet Gerald Green and our own Beasley; may be the nicest teammates and have a 30 point game or 2 every year and yet still cant make a team when guys like Jose Calderon at 40 are still chugging away 10 years after he was effective as a player.

Bad characters, poor off court dudes, lack of motivation, hasn't gotten life together yet, dumb as block dudes, need to figure out if he wants to be a professional, sleeps with teammates wifes, smokes waaayyyy too much, take your pick.

If and when a player is repeatedly in the G league and is dominating and still can't make it to the NBA, SOMETHING IS UP. OR, you can bash your head against a wall and post over and over and over and over again that YOU FOUND A GUY WHO NO ONE ELSE HAS DISCOVERED AND SHOULD BE GIVEN A CHANCE, JUST GIVE HIM MINUTES AND BREAK THE BACK OF YOU WHOLE ORGANIZATION CAUSE YOU JUST FUCKED YOURSELF

Every once in a million someone straightens out. Whiteside cleaned up for a couple of seasons, held it together.... AAANNNNDDD as soon as he got his contract, bleh. Coach doesn't even trust him any more and I'd bet a LOT of money that Whiteside lacks motivation these days and Miami and coach in particular want him OFF THE TEAM.

Wow.. ????? LOL. I mean, WOW..SMFH.. I don't even know where to begin here. Holy ****..

Are you kidding me dude?!? Seems about right?? WHAT??? Seems like one guy taking a jump out of a plane with no parachute and you followed him, that's the only thing that "seems about right" with these last two moronic posts.. Man, whatever **** you guys are smoking, I'd love to try some. LMAO!!!! First off, TripleThreat's post has got to be the most idiotic thing I've ever read on the internet. Not even close. Actually, make that the 2nd thing -- the first has got to be your response in support of such a stinking pile of dog ****. I mean, WOW -- and you're the moderator of this board?!?!?! I mean how the hell did you guys even manage to hit the "post new reply" button with this crap?? Have you no shame at all?? I'm beyond embarrassed for you guys, honestly. Give me one piece of evidence that supports anything TT had to say -- from Wood being "seen privately around the league as a psychotic douchebag" (oh yeah, buddy? By who?? Name me one player with all your "inside knowledge" that's said that about him?), to comparing him to "criminals, rapists, thieves, drug dealers, murderers" (evidence please). And YOU Martin, insinuating he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath with "bad characters, poor off court dudes who lack motivation/haven't gotten their lives together yet, dumb as block dudes who need to figure out if they want to be professionals, guys who sleep with teammates' wifes, smokes waaayyyy too much...". WTF man, really?? And where are you arriving at these conclusions? Because TT said so? Oh OK...I don't suppose you have any evidence to support such outlandish claims???????? I mean seriously, I'd love to get this post to Wood somehow and see him sue both your asses for slander and defamation of character. I honestly think the kid would have a case, that's how utterly irresponsible you guys have been. These two posts are a huge black eye for this web site. How ironic that they come on the same day as Porzingis going down with a torn ACL. Why not, right? How apropos.

You wanna get a good look into the life of Christian Wood, read these two articles which describe nothing but a devastated kid on draft night who, once he learned his fate after not hearing his name called, vowed to be humble, work hard, and make something of himself...and as far as I'm concerned, he's done exactly that and deserves a crack at the NBA -- and I'm not even talking about the obvious talent he has and the excellent results he's been showing at the GL level in a large sample size (multiple GL seasons) which even a blind man could see warrants an NBA look--I'm just talking about Christian Wood the man, the person. Read then come back to reality and rejoin the rest of us, OK? Thanks.

http://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/philadelphia-76ers/experience-confidence-buoying-christian-woods-efforts-extend-nba-career-utah-jazz-summer-league
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/06/christian-wood-76ers-future

Teams needs shooting brains and athletic role players in that order

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