How desperate do they look right now to make a trade?
No one is going to help them.
Infact seethe situation and know the Noah/Hornachek relationship sucks and make more demands.

What you do with Noah is what I've been saying for ages.
Give him 15 a game, let him show he still can play.
See the market. If you can't deal, at seasons end stretch provision him.

martin wrote:

reub wrote:Noah for Batum.

Who says no?

Noah's salary is $2 million less and is one year shorter than Batum's. If the Hornets are trying to shed Batum's salary maybe they would bite. I'd even throw in Chicago's second rounder to get it done.

I say no to the accuracy of this post. There are a ton of salary sites to verify Batum's contact.

Noah: $17.8, $18.5, $19.3
Batum: $22.4, $24, $25.5, $27

I have no idea if Batum is having an off year cause of injury or what.

Who wants a possibly injury prone Batum at 32 earning $27M VERSUS having the cap space to sign a max free agent? That's generally what you are asking and you went all in on Batum with a second round cherry on top.

Batum makes no sense. As does the idea that we need cap space in 2018/2019 season. Mills has said several times that the next couple of years are to rebuild. It makes the most sense for Knicks to keep Noah through 2019 and then stretch his last year for 3 years. Gives them flexibility, when they truly need it, in 2019. Trading a pick just makes a bad situation worse. As does trading for a player that does not meet the timeline.

nyknickzingis wrote:Knicks are the dumbest managed team in the league
So you want to trade Noah and you send him home?
You don't play him at all even when he plays well?
They should have been playing him regularly if they wanted a shot at a trade.

How desperate do they look right now to make a trade?
No one is going to help them.
Infact seethe situation and know the Noah/Hornachek relationship sucks and make more demands.

What you do with Noah is what I've been saying for ages.
Give him 15 a game, let him show he still can play.
See the market. If you can't deal, at seasons end stretch provision him.

reub wrote:Batum makes us better for a long time and fills a position of need. Noah does nothing for us ever.

I guess if you want to be a capped out, barely first round exit team it's a nice move.

CHA has Batum, MKD and Kemba starting backcourt for last 2 years and are going nowhere, let that sink in.

nyknickzingis wrote:Knicks are the dumbest managed team in the league
So you want to trade Noah and you send him home?
You don't play him at all even when he plays well?
They should have been playing him regularly if they wanted a shot at a trade.

How desperate do they look right now to make a trade?
No one is going to help them.
Infact seethe situation and know the Noah/Hornachek relationship sucks and make more demands.

What you do with Noah is what I've been saying for ages.
Give him 15 a game, let him show he still can play.
See the market. If you can't deal, at seasons end stretch provision him.

I kinda half agree with you in one respect, that Phil may have been the dumbest president in the league giving Noah that contract.

martin wrote:

reub wrote:Batum makes us better for a long time and fills a position of need. Noah does nothing for us ever.

I guess if you want to be a capped out, barely first round exit team it's a nice move.

CHA has Batum, MKD and Kemba starting backcourt for last 2 years and are going nowhere, let that sink in.

Sigh. A first round exit. I can't remember our last first round exit. Yeah, *that* would be awful.

look, Noah's money is largely a sunk cost. The only question would be Noah vs Batum. If rolling the dice means a playoff spot, good lord, YES its worth it. Doesn't mean you won't have cap issues you'll have to deal with but so F'n what - we having more pressing winning issues.

No player comes with an injury-free guarantee and players who make a difference get paid. We do not have the ability to get premium talent and won't for a long time unless we take some risks.

No risk, no gain.

CrushAlot wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

reub wrote:Batum makes us better for a long time and fills a position of need. Noah does nothing for us ever.

I guess if you want to be a capped out, barely first round exit team it's a nice move.

CHA has Batum, MKD and Kemba starting backcourt for last 2 years and are going nowhere, let that sink in.

Sigh. A first round exit. I can't remember our last first round exit. Yeah, *that* would be awful.

look, Noah's money is largely a sunk cost. The only question would be Noah vs Batum. If rolling the dice means a playoff spot, good lord, YES its worth it. Doesn't mean you won't have cap issues you'll have to deal with but so F'n what - we having more pressing winning issues.

No player comes with an injury-free guarantee and players who make a difference get paid. We do not have the ability to get premium talent and won't for a long time unless we take some risks.

No risk, no gain.

YOu also could buy out Noah and sign someone waived after the deadline or bring up a guy from the g league. Batum's deal is scary.

True. But the cap hit remains I think. That's why you would stretch a contract like Noah's.

But even stretching just flattens the cap hit a bit. The best strategy with Noah if he's playing hardball is to just pay him for at least this year and stretch him next year. Every dollar we pay him this year returns in cap space down the line and we aren't [unless things change] going anywhere this year where buying out or stretching Noah adds any value.

Furthermore, no matter what we do with Noah, he should be retained until after the threshold of being eligible for the playoffs. He doesn't deserve to be rewarded that way without concessions.

Otherwise its just a matter of writing a check to Noah or writing a check to Batum or whoever. Better to get any value out of that check.

BigRedDog wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

reub wrote:Batum makes us better for a long time and fills a position of need. Noah does nothing for us ever.

I guess if you want to be a capped out, barely first round exit team it's a nice move.

CHA has Batum, MKD and Kemba starting backcourt for last 2 years and are going nowhere, let that sink in.

Sigh. A first round exit. I can't remember our last first round exit. Yeah, *that* would be awful.

look, Noah's money is largely a sunk cost. The only question would be Noah vs Batum. If rolling the dice means a playoff spot, good lord, YES its worth it. Doesn't mean you won't have cap issues you'll have to deal with but so F'n what - we having more pressing winning issues.

No player comes with an injury-free guarantee and players who make a difference get paid. We do not have the ability to get premium talent and won't for a long time unless we take some risks.

No risk, no gain.

YOu also could buy out Noah and sign someone waived after the deadline or bring up a guy from the g league. Batum's deal is scary.

True. But the cap hit remains I think. That's why you would stretch a contract like Noah's.

But even stretching just flattens the cap hit a bit. The best strategy with Noah if he's playing hardball is to just pay him for at least this year and stretch him next year. Every dollar we pay him this year returns in cap space down the line and we aren't [unless things change] going anywhere this year where buying out or stretching Noah adds any value.

Furthermore, no matter what we do with Noah, he should be retained until after the threshold of being eligible for the playoffs. He doesn't deserve to be rewarded that way without concessions.

Otherwise its just a matter of writing a check to Noah or writing a check to Batum or whoever. Better to get any value out of that check.

You are making the assumption that their contracts are equal. Quite differently. Not counting next year where u really dont care about the cap, but in 2 years. The difference then is $52 million for Batum vs $19 million for Noah. No way is Batum worth that . Stupid trade, stupid risk. That would block u from getting a star in 2 yrs.

You are correct about the difference in lengths of contracts and as I and others have suggested, before doing such a transaction the Knicks could legitimately negotiate to also get a first rounder in that second year to compensate for the accounting headache.

I don't know that its worth it but Batum could be that star for us just as likely as THJ will ever be a star. Who knows? Assemble a team that can win and worry about 2019 in 2019.

BigRedDog wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

reub wrote:Batum makes us better for a long time and fills a position of need. Noah does nothing for us ever.

I guess if you want to be a capped out, barely first round exit team it's a nice move.

CHA has Batum, MKD and Kemba starting backcourt for last 2 years and are going nowhere, let that sink in.

Sigh. A first round exit. I can't remember our last first round exit. Yeah, *that* would be awful.

look, Noah's money is largely a sunk cost. The only question would be Noah vs Batum. If rolling the dice means a playoff spot, good lord, YES its worth it. Doesn't mean you won't have cap issues you'll have to deal with but so F'n what - we having more pressing winning issues.

No player comes with an injury-free guarantee and players who make a difference get paid. We do not have the ability to get premium talent and won't for a long time unless we take some risks.

No risk, no gain.

YOu also could buy out Noah and sign someone waived after the deadline or bring up a guy from the g league. Batum's deal is scary.

True. But the cap hit remains I think. That's why you would stretch a contract like Noah's.

But even stretching just flattens the cap hit a bit. The best strategy with Noah if he's playing hardball is to just pay him for at least this year and stretch him next year. Every dollar we pay him this year returns in cap space down the line and we aren't [unless things change] going anywhere this year where buying out or stretching Noah adds any value.

Furthermore, no matter what we do with Noah, he should be retained until after the threshold of being eligible for the playoffs. He doesn't deserve to be rewarded that way without concessions.

Otherwise its just a matter of writing a check to Noah or writing a check to Batum or whoever. Better to get any value out of that check.

You are making the assumption that their contracts are equal. Quite differently. Not counting next year where u really dont care about the cap, but in 2 years. The difference then is $52 million for Batum vs $19 million for Noah. No way is Batum worth that . Stupid trade, stupid risk. That would block u from getting a star in 2 yrs.