BRIGGS wrote:I don't think the Knicks are terrible.
We have quality size some shooters.
Perhaps it's just smart to stay the course with Kanter and Kp as the 5-4-- see if we can add a quality wing player and let the young players develop while utylzing the draft d league and smart free agency

Exactly right. Glad you're coming around. What if we add a wing like Hutchison and he really pans out? Becomes a playmaker at the wing and athletic defender and slides into that SF slot. You never know.

What changed?

Oh right... nothing.

Kanter looked great last night against an NBA rookie and some guys around 6'8. He's brings some good things. He lacks others.

Paris is right. We arent taking steps without becoming an elite defensive team. Every top team is an elite defensive team. You can hide a Curry or a Harden but you need 3-4 high end defensive players to win big in this league.

Kanter is a nice stop gap player IMO. He could also be a great big off the bench to give you scoring, or a 20-25 minute a night starter. If we can get a more attractive part, even if its future based Knicks should look hard at that.

BRIGGS wrote:I don't think the Knicks are terrible.
We have quality size some shooters.
Perhaps it's just smart to stay the course with Kanter and Kp as the 5-4-- see if we can add a quality wing player and let the young players develop while utylzing the draft d league and smart free agency

I'm a HUGE Kanter guy. I love this dude. Yeah, his defense isn't top notch, he's not really a shot-blocker, but the rest of his game I LOVE. Very good rebounder, EXCELLENT offensive skill set (for the life of me, I can't figure out why the hell we don't look to exploit this and get him the ball much more!! I mean this guy could be a go-to offensive dynamo if we chose to use him that way -- I honestly believe that. We're selling him short and shooting ourselves in the foot here big time) and he's got other really good intangibles (young and will be in his prime throughout his next contract, loves NY/wants to be here, great teammate/has his teammates' back, etc.). I'll understand if we deal him (and my buddy was saying it last night -- I don't want some pick at the end of the 1st round for this guy and that's it -- we gotta get back more than that for him), but I want him to stay if we can make it work.

I think the spot we really need to upgrade is backup big man. I like O'Quinn but have felt for awhile now that we could do better here. If we can get a 1st round pick for this dude (Golden State? Or maybe the Cavs now might be interested with K-Love breaking his hand??), you do that. Followed up by two things: (1) replace him immediately with Christian Wood and/or Brandon Ashley of the G-League and then evaluate). I'd love to get both guys (trade KOQ for the pick and just cut LT -- now he's got the busted finger on his shooting hand and he's still playing?? WTF? LOL.. They LOVE this dude but I just don't see it at all. I mean come on--dude plays hard but he's a SCRUB!! This guy's just not that good, and now he's hurt! I think either G-League guy would be an immense upgrade for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Both give away a little girth compared to O'Quinn but have much better all-around games--I mean it's not even close. Can't believe both of these dudes aren't on an NBA roster. They're more than good enough. I mean just looking at both and what they can do, they're better than KOQ point blank. Not even close. And (2): re-establish Willy in the rotation. That would leave us with the KP/Kanter combo to start, then a Wood/Ashley combo. off the bench (even better rim protection + much better athleticism/all-around play over KOQ), and Willy and his post offense/rebounding back into the fold. I would love for them to look at it like that.

5 - Kanter
4/5 - KP
------------------
5/4 - Hernangomez
4/3 - Christian Wood
4/3 - Brandon Ashley

That's a hell of front court we could put together real quick and real cheap. 2 very good post offense 5s in Kanter and Willy (Kanter could and should be a star in this league -- hugest mystery in the world how the Knicks don't see this), KP's a star and our best player, we'd always have enough rebounding on the floor, 3 legit shot-blockers to cover for Kanter/Hernangomez, incredible length (what front court in the league--big men--could match our length and versatility??), much improved athleticism/all-around play with Wood/Ashley. I think they all fit together and complement each other nicely. Make this happen! Nothing but upside here. If it didn't work, we could change direction super quick, no harm, no foul. The positive effect could be great here however, even higher than what we uncovered with Trey Burke. Cost us nothing to try. AND we'd be adding a 1st round pick for O'Quinn hopefully (I mean seriously, even if we decided to outright cut O'Quinn in favor of these two guys, it'd be a win). No downside here.

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:A week ago you thought we sucked and should max out a 33 year old with a bad hip

What changed?

Oh right... nothing.

Kanter looked great last night against an NBA rookie and some guys around 6'8. He's brings some good things. He lacks others.

Paris is right. We arent taking steps without becoming an elite defensive team. Every top team is an elite defensive team. You can hide a Curry or a Harden but you need 3-4 high end defensive players to win big in this league.

Kanter is a nice stop gap player IMO. He could also be a great big off the bench to give you scoring, or a 20-25 minute a night starter. If we can get a more attractive part, even if its future based Knicks should look hard at that.

his meds kicked in.

Seriously, though, I have seen both points.

If you look at who really is a keeper on the roster - you've got a whole bunch of question marks, including KP. Depending on how you answer those in your head, we could have the start of something that becomes a good club with potential, or the FO is wasting their time and should sell, start over.

First we need to find the guys who will do that. Those are your first keepers. However the talent is going to be limited right? Knicks arent going from 30 wins to 50 wins with better coaching and equal talent that tries really hard. They need better players, but only in the context what they are trying to achieve.

Eventually the hope is the culture and team are bigger than the player(s). Look at Melo and OKC. He's found happiness being the 3rd option. Everyone knows that could never have happened here. We didnt have the culture or talent to support it. OKC has both.

So the first round of keepers are guys who will do that. Kanter is one. His D sucks but the effort is usually there and he's certainly a great team/lockerroom guy. We can get better with Enes playing here. Will we need to upgrade from him to become elite? I think so, but that is NOT the question for this team now, and some people are asking it and they are doing so prematurely.

Briggs always asks that question first, which is why every 2 weeks he's got a new "WE MUST GET" this player fetish.

Knicks need to get good first, if you have watched this year they are on their way. Let make the playoffs and be consistent. That is the next step. The key along the way? Stay flexible and dont hurt your future.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:A week ago you thought we sucked and should max out a 33 year old with a bad hip

What changed?

Oh right... nothing.

Kanter looked great last night against an NBA rookie and some guys around 6'8. He's brings some good things. He lacks others.

Paris is right. We arent taking steps without becoming an elite defensive team. Every top team is an elite defensive team. You can hide a Curry or a Harden but you need 3-4 high end defensive players to win big in this league.

Kanter is a nice stop gap player IMO. He could also be a great big off the bench to give you scoring, or a 20-25 minute a night starter. If we can get a more attractive part, even if its future based Knicks should look hard at that.

his meds kicked in.

Seriously, though, I have seen both points.

If you look at who really is a keeper on the roster - you've got a whole bunch of question marks, including KP. Depending on how you answer those in your head, we could have the start of something that becomes a good club with potential, or the FO is wasting their time and should sell, start over.

good teams dont just appear. They are grown. you build a culture of sharing the ball and playing defense like the Spurs do and then you find parts. When better parts come along you upgrade.

First we need to find the guys who will do that. Those are your first keepers. However the talent is going to be limited right? Knicks arent going from 30 wins to 50 wins with better coaching and equal talent that tries really hard. They need better players, but only in the context what they are trying to achieve.

Eventually the hope is the culture and team are bigger than the player(s). Look at Melo and OKC. He's found happiness being the 3rd option. Everyone knows that could never have happened here. We didnt have the culture or talent to support it. OKC has both.

So the first round of keepers are guys who will do that. Kanter is one. His D sucks but the effort is usually there and he's certainly a great team/lockerroom guy. We can get better with Enes playing here. Will we need to upgrade from him to become elite? I think so, but that is NOT the question for this team now, and some people are asking it and they are doing so prematurely.

Briggs always asks that question first, which is why every 2 weeks he's got a new "WE MUST GET" this player fetish.

Knicks need to get good first, if you have watched this year they are on their way. Let make the playoffs and be consistent. That is the next step. The key along the way? Stay flexible and dont hurt your future.

We are going to have to sacrifice a 1st rnd pick, willy, or frank to get better.

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:We are going to have to sacrifice a 1st rnd pick, willy, or frank to get better.

This is such an ill-informed statement.

Knixkik wrote:Right now i don't want to see any major changes (obviously without knowing what deals are out there.) I would like to see KOQ moved for a late 1st/early 2nd round pick. Let's say early 2nd. That gives us 4 picks, and a real shot to add a lot of developmental pieces. With the 1st round pick i'm targeting a wing. Either Bridges (Mich St and Nova) or Hutchison, those are my top 3. With the other 3 picks i'll target a PG (Brunson, Shamet, or Holiday) who can develop behind Ntilikina and Burke and spend a lot of time in the GLeague. I'll target an athletic big man with the next pick (Metu or Spalding stand out) and the 3rd pick can be a draft and stash to build up that side of the equation. Maybe KP's fellow Lavian Kurucs, who can train with him in the off-season and develop for a year or 2 overseas. After that, i'll wait for the chips to fall and try to grab a rotation-quality wing on a 1-year contract who wants to try his luck again the next season. McDermott is a goner unless he wants to come back for the QO. Beasley is worth keeping on a team-friendly, multi-year contract. I expect Kanter to opt in.
Otherwise i hope for a quiet deadline and offseason and developing this group and preparing for a possible splash in the 2019 summer. We will get better with continuity and improving chemistry.