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The Problem with Playing Burke: more wins...
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SocraticBallin22
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1/27/2018  4:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2018  4:49 PM
We have been all calling for Trey to play more for some time, and following the West Coast trip where he was finally given extended minutes and a longer look from Horny, he delivered by closing out 3 games for wins (all our wins on the trip).

Burke is the type of point guard that Horny has always coveted--the kind of point guard he had when he was successful in Phoenix with Eric Bledsoe--a quick, scoring point guard who can break down the defense, excel in pick and roll, get in the paint and create his own show when the offense breaks down. He also pushes the pace, which Horny always implores his guards to do. He has exceeded expectations thus far and has shown with his time in the G league, that he can now both run an offense and score (with improved defense). He gives the team a dimension at the point that no one else on the roster could bring and makes all the players better getting them easy shots (especially the bigs).

Now here's the problem: If Burke starts playing starter minutes, along with Timmy, Lee, KP and Beas, we will win a lot more games. Although we will win a lot more games, I don't believe we will win enough games to make the playoffs. We will be just outside the fringes of making the playoffs, which is a disaster for our lottery standings this year.

Remember, this is the last draft where losing records will carry as much weight for a better pick with a deep class of elite prospects and we own our pick.

Is it better to lose more games at this point and get a better lottery pick for our future, or is it better to win more games, with Burke, and risk winning enough games to still not make the playoffs but not get a high lottery pick.

I think this is the dilemma that the franchise faces right now. Burke was a great find by Perry and kudos to him, when many had given up on him. And he has a future on this team as a rotation player. But will he cost us too many wins this year?

AUTOADVERT
knicks1248
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1/27/2018  6:13 PM
Isn't burke as good as a lottery pick, if not better. Is that how the development process works, teach your youngster how to lose games, or give them the impression that winning isn't everything..
ES
nixluva
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1/27/2018  6:58 PM
This team should play to the level of it's talent. There's no way you should be worried about Tanking if your team is capable of winning games. It's still too early to just trash the season. I do hope they can make trades for the future and that takes precedence over making the playoffs.
Welpee
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1/27/2018  8:29 PM
Geez, give this tank b.s. a rest!
wargames
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1/27/2018  8:53 PM
Welpee wrote:Geez, give this tank b.s. a rest!

Yeah because we should have an inflated opinion of this team after they let 3 teams score for over 125 on them, beat the jazz by 2 and then beat the bottom 5 team the Jazz.

This current team stinks, unless the roleplayers are playing lights out and getting a late lottery pick isn't going to help fix that issue.

EnySpree
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1/27/2018  9:13 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/27/2018  9:18 PM
Making the playoffs is just as important as getting a draft pick. This culture of losing on purpose to get a chance at a star is just a loser mentality.... if you would rather lose then you don't deserve to win. Because when does it stop? Oh we're still not good, let's tank again? Wtf is going?

Making the playoffs with Kristaps is just as important. It shows players we have something special going on here. We'll attract winners to the team. Agents will call us telling us clients are interested in being a part of the movement. That's all just as important...

Also for every Patrick Ewing and Duncan therss a Yinka Dare and Anthony Bennett. Losing on purpose does not guarantee anything!

We'd rather play Frank who sucks right now and isn't ready over Burke who's prime to made a story book comeback? I thought we was trying to find diamonds in the rough? We can still keep Frank but he's not ready yet. He hit the wall and his flaws are sticking out... Burke is scoring and passing... he's defending well too... theres YouTube video explaining all of it. Come on now.

You know why I'm here....
nixluva
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1/27/2018  9:46 PM
EnySpree wrote:Making the playoffs is just as important as getting a draft pick. This culture of losing on purpose to get a chance at a star is just a loser mentality.... if you would rather lose then you don't deserve to win. Because when does it stop? Oh we're still not good, let's tank again? Wtf is going?

Making the playoffs with Kristaps is just as important. It shows players we have something special going on here. We'll attract winners to the team. Agents will call us telling us clients are interested in being a part of the movement. That's all just as important...

Also for every Patrick Ewing and Duncan therss a Yinka Dare and Anthony Bennett. Losing on purpose does not guarantee anything!

We'd rather play Frank who sucks right now and isn't ready over Burke who's prime to made a story book comeback? I thought we was trying to find diamonds in the rough? We can still keep Frank but he's not ready yet. He hit the wall and his flaws are sticking out... Burke is scoring and passing... he's defending well too... theres YouTube video explaining all of it. Come on now.


Burke is on the team!!! No one is keeping him from playing except for Jeff. This isn't a fan issue. We want BOTH Burke and Frank to play well cuz they're young and talented. Burke had to hit the bottom and come back up at 25. Frank is just getting started in his development.

This is not an EITHER/OR situation. The Knicks need talent period so there's room for Burke and Frank. Don't know why this is even an issue. Frank may be struggling at this time but he still a part of this team and offers Defense and Passing. His scoring could kick in at any minute cuz he's not far off on his shots. They're just a little bit off which could be legs or some other technical issue. We should be glad we picked up Burke and helped him get his game going. Now he can help this team win some games. It's ALL GOOD.

Swishfm3
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1/27/2018  10:13 PM
EnySpree wrote:Making the playoffs is just as important as getting a draft pick. This culture of losing on purpose to get a chance at a star is just a loser mentality.... if you would rather lose then you don't deserve to win. Because when does it stop? Oh we're still not good, let's tank again? Wtf is going?

Making the playoffs with Kristaps is just as important. It shows players we have something special going on here. We'll attract winners to the team. Agents will call us telling us clients are interested in being a part of the movement. That's all just as important...

Also for every Patrick Ewing and Duncan therss a Yinka Dare and Anthony Bennett. Losing on purpose does not guarantee anything!

We'd rather play Frank who sucks right now and isn't ready over Burke who's prime to made a story book comeback? I thought we was trying to find diamonds in the rough? We can still keep Frank but he's not ready yet. He hit the wall and his flaws are sticking out... Burke is scoring and passing... he's defending well too... theres YouTube video explaining all of it. Come on now.

Thank you

wargames
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1/27/2018  11:27 PM
Making the playoffs would be a great goal if the team didn't stink. There isn't enough talent there to make the playoffs and even if a freak injury happened the Knicks would be a 1 and done in the offs as a 8th seed.

Talking about Culture is great but talent trumps everything. You only need to worry about culture when your at that point where you have a talented team underperforming. That's not what the Knicks are and trying to make the playoffs is A Pie In The Sky assessment of the Knicks right now cause they are lousy talent wise. Any time you have a team that is crappy on the road it's almost always a talent issues cause while role players will win you games at home (where it's easy to step up in front the home crowd) roleplayers are notorious for going cold on road games.

TheGame
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1/28/2018  1:12 AM
If the Knicks play Burke 25+ minutes and Burke continues to play solid, without jacking up too many shots or slacking on defense, and KP and Hardaway stay healthy, this team will fight its way back to the 8th seed. Watch it happen.
Playoffs or bust
Bonn1997
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1/28/2018  6:39 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/28/2018  6:40 AM
It probably doesn't matter since we're likely not bad enough to get a top 10 pick. Look at this or Google "NBA draft crapshoot after pick 10"
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/nba-draft-pick-values-2017-6
FrenchFreak
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1/28/2018  8:36 AM
Is Burke an unrestricted FA after this season? If so that needs to be factored into the equation. If he plays a ton and plays well and the Knicks win more, then all you’re doing is raising the price to keep Burke while also hurting your draft pick.

In general I’m not a pro-tanking guy. If Burke is a long term piece I say play him as much as you can. Take the minutes away from Jack and keep giving Frankie his painful development minutes. I’d still also look to move Lee at the deadline with most of his minutes going to Dotson. The young guys are the key- if I can get them NBA minutes this year then I don’t really care whether we’re at 8 seed or just miss the playoffs.

blkexec
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1/28/2018  9:10 AM
Tanking only works if we have no young players and looking to add more.

Or your top players are injured.....

We don't fit any of those situations. So that means there's some benefit in making the playoffs.....especially for KP and this young team. Playoffs is goal #1.....getti g past the 1st round is goal #2.

Burke is a SG in a PG body. Frank is a PG in a SG body. To me these guys can play a similar role to AI and Snow in Philly. Burke already has the cornrolls and the look. Plus other team announcers were call Burke AI when he went on a scori g spree.

Q: What is the difference between a Knicks fan and a baby? A: The baby will stop whining after awhile.
FrenchFreak
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1/28/2018  9:42 AM
FrenchFreak wrote:Is Burke an unrestricted FA after this season? If so that needs to be factored into the equation. If he plays a ton and plays well and the Knicks win more, then all you’re doing is raising the price to keep Burke while also hurting your draft pick.

In general I’m not a pro-tanking guy. If Burke is a long term piece I say play him as much as you can. Take the minutes away from Jack and keep giving Frankie his painful development minutes. I’d still also look to move Lee at the deadline with most of his minutes going to Dotson. The young guys are the key- if I can get them NBA minutes this year then I don’t really care whether we’re at 8 seed or just miss the playoffs.

Answering my own question, it appears that the Knicks have Trey Burke on a non guaranteed 1.8M contract for next season. That being the case, I say give him as many minutes as he earns and give him a chance to be a long term piece. He’s only 25 and was really highly thought of coming out of college. He wouldn’t be the first guy who didn’t figure it out until 25. Plus there’s a decent chance he’s our best PG at the moment (not that that is a high bar to clear).

technomaster
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1/28/2018  9:50 AM
Haha, I like the Snow/Iverson comparison. I was thinking Burke looks a little like AI out there, minus the super long arms.

I think Frank is what he is this year. Give him a few months right after the season to work on his game and send him out in the summer league with specific instructions to look for his shot and contact more.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
technomaster
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1/28/2018  9:56 AM
If Burke means the team plays with more fire and gets us some playoff experience, it'd be well worth it. Frank will get some good experience in the playoffs too.

KP in a playoff series makes us an extremely dangerous team. He's a guy that no one can match up with. Kanter gives you a proven scoring when all things break down. And Timmy can get hot.

All the tools to make some playoff noise. If we can get there.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
newyorknewyork
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1/28/2018  11:07 AM
SocraticBallin22 wrote:We have been all calling for Trey to play more for some time, and following the West Coast trip where he was finally given extended minutes and a longer look from Horny, he delivered by closing out 3 games for wins (all our wins on the trip).

Burke is the type of point guard that Horny has always coveted--the kind of point guard he had when he was successful in Phoenix with Eric Bledsoe--a quick, scoring point guard who can break down the defense, excel in pick and roll, get in the paint and create his own show when the offense breaks down. He also pushes the pace, which Horny always implores his guards to do. He has exceeded expectations thus far and has shown with his time in the G league, that he can now both run an offense and score (with improved defense). He gives the team a dimension at the point that no one else on the roster could bring and makes all the players better getting them easy shots (especially the bigs).

Now here's the problem: If Burke starts playing starter minutes, along with Timmy, Lee, KP and Beas, we will win a lot more games. Although we will win a lot more games, I don't believe we will win enough games to make the playoffs. We will be just outside the fringes of making the playoffs, which is a disaster for our lottery standings this year.

Remember, this is the last draft where losing records will carry as much weight for a better pick with a deep class of elite prospects and we own our pick.

Is it better to lose more games at this point and get a better lottery pick for our future, or is it better to win more games, with Burke, and risk winning enough games to still not make the playoffs but not get a high lottery pick.

I think this is the dilemma that the franchise faces right now. Burke was a great find by Perry and kudos to him, when many had given up on him. And he has a future on this team as a rotation player. But will he cost us too many wins this year?

It looks like your thread title has thrown ppl off.

The answer to the thread question though imo is you compete and let the chips fall where they may. Play the ppl who earn the PT. Continue to pull players when they are slacking on defense.(even if they can drop buckets) and look to compete every game with the players you have on the roster.

If moves become available for players like Kanter, Lee, KOQ that makes sense and are getting us real good value. Then those moves should be made.

Coaching staff must play to win
Front Office must set up the future

BRIGGS
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1/28/2018  11:34 AM
Im not worried about draft--lets focus on what we can control--if Burke shows great play--thats good. On the downside anyone can sign him.
FrenchFreak
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1/28/2018  11:53 AM
I think the Knicks have Burke on a non guaranteed contract for next season at 1.8M. Great potential value there.
newyorknewyork
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1/28/2018  12:17 PM
FrenchFreak wrote:I think the Knicks have Burke on a non guaranteed contract for next season at 1.8M. Great potential value there.

Not to mention he chose the Knicks knowing he would be a G-leaguer with an opportunity to earn it. He has a close friend in THjr here, has ties with Perry I believe someone said. And he has an opportunity to get real PT here.

This may be the best situation to be in for his career right now.

The Problem with Playing Burke: more wins...

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