newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

Welpee wrote:

EnySpree wrote:https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2006907205989348&id=122412554438832

I absolutely agree with Wally here. Watch and reply....

I initially said it was a knee jerk reaction to one game. Now I'm rapidly starting to come around. And the fact that Burke isn't some rookie, he's a guy who has been a player getting major minutes in the league, a guy the league is familiar with (versus Jeremy Lin who basically came out of nowhere) and he's still being effective, means something.

I had been saying for weeks what did we have to lose kicking Sessions to the curb and giving Burke a look? I'm so glad the Knicks finally pulled the trigger.

Me too man. was saying the same things. Glad they gave Burke a shot..

I tell ya what, Burke wasn't the only standout player down in the GL. Not by a long shot.. SO MANY good players -- two guys I really like that I think could help us -- Christian Wood and Brandon Ashley. Both go about 6'9" 230 (Wood's slightly taller). Very similar games--very good athleticism, potent offensive games from all angles (post up, off the dribble, mid range, 3 ball), excellent length, shot-blockers, both would be a factor on the boards.. The only thing lacking is the girth someone like KOQ has but I feel when you weigh all the factors by comparison, either one of these guys would be more valuable overall in the long run. They just bring more to the table. We're also talking 4-5 younger than O'Quinn too. And forget one or the other, I want both guys. If we managed to pull of something like O'Quinn to GS for the 30th pick in the 1st round, maybe trimmed another superfluous player (Lance Thomas? Wood or Ashley would be a significant upgrade, not only over O'Quinn but over LT in the rotation as well. Both guys are athletic hybrid 4s but could definitely see moments at the 3 in the right matchups), I dunno man--to me, that'd be a minor coup. Point is there are many more players down there that can not only play, but THRIVE in the NBA. No question about it. Maybe the league should consider expanding once again to another city or two.

Ridiculous Upside selected Wood as one of their G League all stars. I haven't followed the gleague much this year but I still check in at that site. Highlight video they had of Wood was really good. He looks great and has filled out.

He has been brought up here many times has been signed by Philly and Hornets in the past and always seems really good in G-league. But yet still has yet to make any mark on the NBA despite his talents. Another Hassan Whiteside?

But, he’s got one of the longer wingspans in the league and is 6’5. Rarely does he get to the basket. It’s not that hard to take it strong and dunk a basketball for god sakes even Mark Jackson did it a few times his rookie season.

He literally just crosses half court, pulls the ball out and gives it to the wing. Not seeing the hunger or confidence out there. Something needs to change.

And if it’s the g league for a couple of weeks to light a fire, so be it

EnySpree wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:My thought on Frank and the D-League...mentioned it a few weeks ago in a thread- I would have no issues with letting him play there, but put him in a situation where he is guaranteed 15-20 shots/game...

He needs to gain confidence as a scorer...and not just thinking that he must try to direct an offense.

If he plays D-league games where he does not feel like he can shoot as often as possible, his time will be wasted.

He has to be aggressive looking for his shot, and also have to drive and finish, with a shot or a foul, at least
5-7 times/game, too.

D-league is meaningless if he is not given instructions to look for his own shot.

Yo.... you think they are telling Frank not to shoot? You think that's what the problem is? So Trey Burke is averaging 18pts the last 2 Games because the coach wants him to? Again the coach told Frank not to shoot? Come on man.... Frank is not even trying to shoot unless he's wide open. He needs to go to the g league to learn how to do that. It's not in his game to shoot. That's a development problem. When he goes down there he's got to out play XRM.... good luck with that.

He has a passing mentality...and there is NO WAY he, or our brass, will let him take the amount of shots I refer to if we are trying to win, but I put it more on him not wanting to screw up. I want him in a situation where he is confident about shooting with no worrying about the results.

We have another player on the team who has needed to be pushed to shoot, but he is already and accomplished shooter- Lee. He has always been shy as a scorer, rarely pushing the envelope, and Hornacek is constantly urging him to shoot more.

Burke is an aggressive scoring PG, more like a Isiah was with the Celtics. Frank sees scoring as an afterthought at this point. Much of this is mental and how he's been taught to play the game, but he has shown flashes of what he might be able to do.

Once again, though, amazing that we are overly critical of a 19yr old kid. What it really comes down to is that some folks wanted other players in the draft and are unwilling to show any kind of patience, and for some reason believe that what they see now is all they will ever get?

I'm quite happy with what I've seen from Burke so far, but he came into the league at age 21, picked around where Frank was picked, and then proceeded to be given less playing time each year. I"m happy to see him get good playing time, even more than Frank when warranted...but is he 19 yrs old, now? Is this his first season in the NBA? Burke had two years where he started more times than coming off the bench, and then he became a reserve. Had some injuries...yup, but this guy averaged 31MPG his first two year, and then faded completely from Utah's plans.

Happy that he has worked on his game, but do we give Frank the same type of time that Burke got to reach this point?

Please get real, and try to read what I say before you respond.

They clearly didn't draft him based on some kind of evidence that he was already a well developed offensive PG!!! What PRO Scout would watch him and come to that conclusion. He was drafted on his potential to develop into more than he is currently. That does not mean he had to figure it out all in half of a season!!! F'n RELAX! Too many Knicks fans are closing the book on this kid. Which is funny given Burke is finally starting to show the right kind of game at 25!!!

No!

Time moves on

Kanter was a high pick.... they got rid of him and moved on...

They have Gobert and Donavan Mitchell... Ricky Rubio... clearly time moves on.

OldFan wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Is Utah crying about not developing Trey Burke? Any fans in Utah saying i told you so..... we should have kept him..... he was a #8 pick we should have gave him a chance to develop...

No!

Time moves on

Kanter was a high pick.... they got rid of him and moved on...

They have Gobert and Donavan Mitchell... Ricky Rubio... clearly time moves on.

Yes, time moves on and most fans have a clock that moves much to fast. When you draft a player you don't know how quickly he will develop, but I doubt anyone expected him to be a finished product in a 1/2 year. I would love it if he was developing faster - but it's hardly surprising he's taking time.

I think it's way too soon to give up on him. Likely they'll have a plan for what he should work on in the offseason. For now, he's playing enough to get valuable experience against NBA players and in the long run I think that will do him good.

Seems most fans want us to develop players - but have no patience when it comes to actually doing it.

Frank played 50 games our so.... he hit the wall. Nothing urgent going on.... he has flaws in his game that needs to be addressed. Dotson is in the g league and nobody ats as eye. Dotson proved he brings in the league. He's too far on the depth chart so he's getting minutes in Westchester. Frank can't get in the paint, he gives up his dribble too soon, he won't shoot it even even we need him to. He needs to go down to the g league and get himself tuned up. He's not going to fix that playing in the nba. The drop in talent in the g league could help his game. Nothing wrong with that. Send him for a few weeks and then call him back. Nothing out of the ordinary with doing this.... it definately doesn't mean we gave up on him or are impatient. It's called developing your player

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

OldFan wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Is Utah crying about not developing Trey Burke? Any fans in Utah saying i told you so..... we should have kept him..... he was a #8 pick we should have gave him a chance to develop...

No!

Time moves on

Kanter was a high pick.... they got rid of him and moved on...

They have Gobert and Donavan Mitchell... Ricky Rubio... clearly time moves on.

Yes, time moves on and most fans have a clock that moves much to fast. When you draft a player you don't know how quickly he will develop, but I doubt anyone expected him to be a finished product in a 1/2 year. I would love it if he was developing faster - but it's hardly surprising he's taking time.

I think it's way too soon to give up on him. Likely they'll have a plan for what he should work on in the offseason. For now, he's playing enough to get valuable experience against NBA players and in the long run I think that will do him good.

Seems most fans want us to develop players - but have no patience when it comes to actually doing it.

Frank played 50 games our so.... he hit the wall. Nothing urgent going on.... he has flaws in his game that needs to be addressed. Dotson is in the g league and nobody ats as eye. Dotson proved he brings in the league. He's too far on the depth chart so he's getting minutes in Westchester. Frank can't get in the paint, he gives up his dribble too soon, he won't shoot it even even we need him to. He needs to go down to the g league and get himself tuned up. He's not going to fix that playing in the nba. The drop in talent in the g league could help his game. Nothing wrong with that. Send him for a few weeks and then call him back. Nothing out of the ordinary with doing this.... it definately doesn't mean we gave up on him or are impatient. It's called developing your player

Frank is still with the NBA team because he does provide Defense and passing. There are times when this team NEEDS what he brings. The SECOND that Frank scores the ball he's on the PLUS side because his defense improves the team's D that much. A difference in Defensive Rating of 106.8 with Frank to 112.1 without him as of today.

Frank can make all the passes. He can run a PnR, but his personal scoring is what needs to improve. In general his game is incomplete but if he was hitting his jumpers there wouldn't be as much of an issue. His hesitance is a mental thing more than a physical one. He's simply not reacting in the split second that a PG should when the opening is there to drive cuz he's thinking too much.

whatever it takes to send him to gleague now and not bring back until all star break.

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

Welpee wrote:

EnySpree wrote:https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2006907205989348&id=122412554438832

I absolutely agree with Wally here. Watch and reply....

I initially said it was a knee jerk reaction to one game. Now I'm rapidly starting to come around. And the fact that Burke isn't some rookie, he's a guy who has been a player getting major minutes in the league, a guy the league is familiar with (versus Jeremy Lin who basically came out of nowhere) and he's still being effective, means something.

I had been saying for weeks what did we have to lose kicking Sessions to the curb and giving Burke a look? I'm so glad the Knicks finally pulled the trigger.

Me too man. was saying the same things. Glad they gave Burke a shot..

I tell ya what, Burke wasn't the only standout player down in the GL. Not by a long shot.. SO MANY good players -- two guys I really like that I think could help us -- Christian Wood and Brandon Ashley. Both go about 6'9" 230 (Wood's slightly taller). Very similar games--very good athleticism, potent offensive games from all angles (post up, off the dribble, mid range, 3 ball), excellent length, shot-blockers, both would be a factor on the boards.. The only thing lacking is the girth someone like KOQ has but I feel when you weigh all the factors by comparison, either one of these guys would be more valuable overall in the long run. They just bring more to the table. We're also talking 4-5 younger than O'Quinn too. And forget one or the other, I want both guys. If we managed to pull of something like O'Quinn to GS for the 30th pick in the 1st round, maybe trimmed another superfluous player (Lance Thomas? Wood or Ashley would be a significant upgrade, not only over O'Quinn but over LT in the rotation as well. Both guys are athletic hybrid 4s but could definitely see moments at the 3 in the right matchups), I dunno man--to me, that'd be a minor coup. Point is there are many more players down there that can not only play, but THRIVE in the NBA. No question about it. Maybe the league should consider expanding once again to another city or two.

Ridiculous Upside selected Wood as one of their G League all stars. I haven't followed the gleague much this year but I still check in at that site. Highlight video they had of Wood was really good. He looks great and has filled out.

He has been brought up here many times has been signed by Philly and Hornets in the past and always seems really good in G-league. But yet still has yet to make any mark on the NBA despite his talents. Another Hassan Whiteside?

He just turned 22. Seems like a good risk to take if something opens up on the roster.

Agree. I'd go a step further in fact -- I'd go out of my way to make room for this guy. Wood and Brandon Ashley I'd love to see us add somehow. And Cat Barber for the backcourt (even with Burke--get greedy). I'd love to see us continue to stockpile more no risk/high reward talent and evaluate. Don't stop at Burke.

Take a good look at Ashley here. I've loved this kid since summer league about 2-3 years ago. Putting up decent numbers in the G-League, nothing earth shattering, but he's all eye test 100%, Without a doubt, he's NBA rotation material. What can't this kid do? Infinitely more in the post than anything O'Quinn gives us, puts it on the floor real well and finishes smooth with both hands (everything he does is smooth!), great touch from 3/mid-range, gets out on the break, the agility, the rebounding, the shot-blocking (the more he dedicates himself here, he could be on the the league's best, a real eraser). If we swapped out KOQ and LT for Wood and Ashley (along with re-establishing Hernangomez at 5), we're so much better, it's not even funny. I mean tell me this kid Ashley doesn't remind you of Shawn Marion a little, only with even more height/length. Crazy, how is this dude not in the NBA??

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

OldFan wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Is Utah crying about not developing Trey Burke? Any fans in Utah saying i told you so..... we should have kept him..... he was a #8 pick we should have gave him a chance to develop...

No!

Time moves on

Kanter was a high pick.... they got rid of him and moved on...

They have Gobert and Donavan Mitchell... Ricky Rubio... clearly time moves on.

Yes, time moves on and most fans have a clock that moves much to fast. When you draft a player you don't know how quickly he will develop, but I doubt anyone expected him to be a finished product in a 1/2 year. I would love it if he was developing faster - but it's hardly surprising he's taking time.

I think it's way too soon to give up on him. Likely they'll have a plan for what he should work on in the offseason. For now, he's playing enough to get valuable experience against NBA players and in the long run I think that will do him good.

Seems most fans want us to develop players - but have no patience when it comes to actually doing it.

Frank played 50 games our so.... he hit the wall. Nothing urgent going on.... he has flaws in his game that needs to be addressed. Dotson is in the g league and nobody ats as eye. Dotson proved he brings in the league. He's too far on the depth chart so he's getting minutes in Westchester. Frank can't get in the paint, he gives up his dribble too soon, he won't shoot it even even we need him to. He needs to go down to the g league and get himself tuned up. He's not going to fix that playing in the nba. The drop in talent in the g league could help his game. Nothing wrong with that. Send him for a few weeks and then call him back. Nothing out of the ordinary with doing this.... it definately doesn't mean we gave up on him or are impatient. It's called developing your player

Frank is still with the NBA team because he does provide Defense and passing. There are times when this team NEEDS what he brings. The SECOND that Frank scores the ball he's on the PLUS side because his defense improves the team's D that much. A difference in Defensive Rating of 106.8 with Frank to 112.1 without him as of today.

Frank can make all the passes. He can run a PnR, but his personal scoring is what needs to improve. In general his game is incomplete but if he was hitting his jumpers there wouldn't be as much of an issue. His hesitance is a mental thing more than a physical one. He's simply not reacting in the split second that a PG should when the opening is there to drive cuz he's thinking too much.

whatever it takes to send him to gleague now and not bring back until all star break.

G League is always an option but they felt they needed him with the Big Team or else he'd have been sent down. If Frank wasn't getting minutes then I could see them doing the G League thing, but he's in the rotation and getting a chance to figure things out at the NBA level. My guess is they think he can bust thru this and get going.

he can bust through this slump.....after a humbling stint at g league

So basically I'd shop Jack for a 2nd round pick and if none waive him. Let him go compete for a chip in his twilight.
I'd start Burke and then bring Frank off the bench.
Trade Lee, start them both.
Is KP happy not making playoffs? He should be ok, he has emerged as an allstar first option and if he finishes with 70 games played I'd say that's a good year. Its an adjustment to be in his role as "the man". THjr also big bump up in status given contract and responsibility.
Let Dotson play the 2. Lets move forward. IM not saying "tank", im saying develop and take our lumps.

Frank's splits are incredibly telling and back up the eye test
24 games he's played 20 minutes or more (he averages +4)
23 games he's played 19 or less (he averages -11)

Two things jump out here that are incredibly simple and basic. When Frank is + he gets more minutes. When the team is - with him he gets yanked. Those games are an almost perfect 50/50 (on average). Also when he's bad he's REALLY bad.

He's a 19 year old rookie getting 20 mpg and playing every night. He gets burn when the team's going well. They keep running him out there. I dont get the drama. To me this looks exactly how its supposed to go. This is why rebuilding takes time.

This is how this is SUPPOSED to work. Hopefully Frank stays healthy and finishes the year with 70+ games and about 20mpg. He will go into the offseason with a list of things to work on. Improve the handle, dribble penetrate grow the offensive game. Then he comes back next summer and hopefully leads the summer league team and picks up in training camp where he left off.

He's 19 getting 20mpg and much has been good and winning BB. Some not as much. The good part is there is plenty of film on both.

Time to be patient and let him grow.