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NBA Trade Deadline dealing : Knicks Brogden, Dellavado etc
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EnySpree
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1/24/2018  11:20 PM
newyorker4ever wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Beasley is untouchable this year. I want to be able to have him in the stable this summer.

def not untouchable... he's been good but he's still bad on D and a ball stopper. He's been a great pick up, but do we really see him here long term?

Do we need him long term? He's 29... maybe 2 years team option for 3... not even for alot of money. KOQ/Baker money at 4 mill per year.

He's making so far below what he's giving us tat it makes no sense to trade him.

I'm hoping Beas appreciates his rejuvenation here and his current role and resigns on a team friendly deal.

Beas is different... he's not chasing money at this point of his career. He wants an opportunity. The market will determine the money. These gms are idiots though. Anything over 5 mill a year for Beas is over paying. He still has to show he's committed to being on a team. I love the guy more tan most but it is what it is.


You just said he was untouchable but now he's not worth 5+ mil?? I'd trade him tomorrow for the right return.

Yeah he's untouchable. What wrong with whatt I said? We need him in the fold. He's cheap and will continue to be cheap... we need that.

The right return is not the bull**** trade in this article... there's no reason to put Beas in any trade... the dude makes 2 mil a year.

You know why I'm here....
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fwk00
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1/24/2018  11:57 PM
EnySpree wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Beasley is untouchable this year. I want to be able to have him in the stable this summer.

def not untouchable... he's been good but he's still bad on D and a ball stopper. He's been a great pick up, but do we really see him here long term?

Do we need him long term? He's 29... maybe 2 years team option for 3... not even for alot of money. KOQ/Baker money at 4 mill per year.

He's making so far below what he's giving us tat it makes no sense to trade him.

I'm hoping Beas appreciates his rejuvenation here and his current role and resigns on a team friendly deal.

Beas is different... he's not chasing money at this point of his career. He wants an opportunity. The market will determine the money. These gms are idiots though. Anything over 5 mill a year for Beas is over paying. He still has to show he's committed to being on a team. I love the guy more tan most but it is what it is.


You just said he was untouchable but now he's not worth 5+ mil?? I'd trade him tomorrow for the right return.

Yeah he's untouchable. What wrong with whatt I said? We need him in the fold. He's cheap and will continue to be cheap... we need that.

The right return is not the bull**** trade in this article... there's no reason to put Beas in any trade... the dude makes 2 mil a year.



I have to agree that Beas, while not untouchable, certainly shouldn't be traded for a bag of bagels.

Keeping MVBeas in the fold is a no brainer. OTOH, if the return was fair why shouldn't Beas have the opportunity to chase a ring with a legitimate contender? It just makes sense.

martin
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1/25/2018  12:02 AM
NardDogNation wrote:
martin wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:If my hand is forced into moving O'Quinn, I want far more than a bad contract and an inconsequential pick.

Pretty sure Knicks wouldn't think of this trade as a bad contract and inconsequential pick. Are 1st rounders inconsequential? Maybe not for you but I'd guess most teams would like them for an expiring who is redundant and will probably price himself out of the team.

Why is Nick Young a bad contract? It's expiring.

I like this trade for both teams.

I thought Nick Young signed a two year deal with them. Him as an expirer makes the deal more palatable but I can't help but feel we need more than the 30th pick in the draft for a player with a 19.8 PER. If he became a Warrior tonight, he'd be 5th on the team in that regard without having benefited from the passing and floor spacing of Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Klay Thompson and Draymond Green. I think that kind of talent requires more, especially when it comes with cost-control.

Downside of not trading KOQ for a 1st rounder is losing him for nothing or being in a spot where you feel like you need to sign him to a contract that may have long term repercussions.

I've said this before: I think KOQ would be a great second big off bench for a deep playoff team, a last guy sort of addition. For the Knicks, they would need to sign him to $7m+ and it would clog up salary cap long term. 1st round pick wouldn't.

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TripleThreat
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1/25/2018  1:12 AM
fishmike wrote:
Golden State Warriors Receive: C Kyle O'Quinn

New York Knicks Receive: SG/SF Nick Young, 2018 first-round pick

Atlanta Hawks Receive: PF/C Mirza Teletovic (injured), SG/SF Rashad Vaughn, PF/C D.J. Wilson, 2020 second-round pick (via Milwaukee)

Milwaukee Bucks Receive: SF/PF Michael Beasley, PG Jarrett Jack, C Enes Kanter, SG/SF Marco Belinelli

New York Knicks Receive: PG/SG Malcolm Brogdon, PG/SG Matthew Dellavedova, PF/C Ersan Ilyasova

The KOQ deal is a no brainer if we are looking to move him. Get the late #1 for a guy who isnt in your future plans.
The other deal sucks unless you covet Brogden which I dont. He's wonderful if you drafted him. Im not trading all those guys and taking fodder back just to get Brogden who I then have to resign to a longer deal.


A) Just about anyone can write for Bleacher Report

B) You can always spot some raging homerism when you see some trade proposals. These are trade ideas that have a "Briggs-ian" type shake one's head factor.

C) Nick Young, like many players taking something below his actual market value, did so with a handshake agreement to stay on the roster all year. David West and Pachulia were the same thing.

The Bucks didn't wait forever to dump Greg Monroe to only saddle themselves with the Euro version. For two more years. That deal makes no sense for the Hawks.

Warriors will wait and see who gets bought out. At worst, they will try to trade McGee, Jones and Looney before anyone else.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
Bonn1997
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1/25/2018  7:20 AM
fishmike wrote:
Golden State Warriors Receive: C Kyle O'Quinn

New York Knicks Receive: SG/SF Nick Young, 2018 first-round pick

Atlanta Hawks Receive: PF/C Mirza Teletovic (injured), SG/SF Rashad Vaughn, PF/C D.J. Wilson, 2020 second-round pick (via Milwaukee)

Milwaukee Bucks Receive: SF/PF Michael Beasley, PG Jarrett Jack, C Enes Kanter, SG/SF Marco Belinelli

New York Knicks Receive: PG/SG Malcolm Brogdon, PG/SG Matthew Dellavedova, PF/C Ersan Ilyasova

The KOQ deal is a no brainer if we are looking to move him. Get the late #1 for a guy who isnt in your future plans.
The other deal sucks unless you covet Brogden which I dont. He's wonderful if you drafted him. Im not trading all those guys and taking fodder back just to get Brogden who I then have to resign to a longer deal.


KOQ is a good 2 way player. Why do you think GSW wants him? He SHOULD be in our future plans. The 30th pick isn't good enough compensation.
GustavBahler
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1/25/2018  9:25 AM
Sounds like Beasley really wants to stay in NY. Sounds like its about more than money. I guess we'll see if he isn't traded.

From Berman..

But KD saved his bombshell nugget for the San Jose Mercury News, saying how “amazing’’ it would be to play with Beasley next season on the Warriors, who won’t have cap space but will wield the $5.3 million taxpayer exception.

Beasley was flattered by his buddy’s remarks and acknowledged they have talked about being NBA teammates since they were kids. But Beasley said he would prefer to make New York his home.

Beasley, an impending free agent, told The Post he’s tired of moving and hopes his scoring prowess this season will earn him a long-term spot as a Knick. He also said it wouldn’t be appropriate to start fantasizing about playing with the Warriors next season.


“He’s a best friend. Why not?’’ Beasley said. “But right now I’m a New York Knick. So me placing myself on another team during the season is not fair to my guys. Let the summer be the summer.

“One thing I do think about it is me being tired of moving — having a long-time home,’’ Beasley added. “I don’t want to move anymore.’’

When told Durant said Wednesday “he’s found a solid home in New York and hopefully he sticks there,” Beasley responded, “Me too.”

Nevertheless, Durant let his mind wander about hooking up with Beasley next season in Golden State: “It would be amazing,’’ Durant told the Bay-area newspaper. “Especially now, I mean if we link up now at this age, we done so much, seen so much, being on this league as a player.

Nalod
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1/25/2018  9:51 AM
Every year we take the trade bait articles and get our hopes up. Then we get angry no deal was made as if whom ever was asleep or ignorant.
Rumors are usually fabricated by writers to play with the ideas. Fans love this. I do too. But know the source.
So basically UK fan posts an idea, perhaps based on an article. Then it gets debated an eventually anger ensues because "why the hell didn't we pull the trigger" as if that deal was actually on the table. Fans are not privy to much of what happens. But when it gets regurgitated enough it becomes some sort of fact.
Briggs posts so many ideas some are his own making, some from others. At some point he gain some sort of credibility because of the redundancy. Talk to Trump supporters who believe Trump is great deal maker etc, etc, etc, Blah blah blah.......
Im not saying Briggs is any kind of evil, just that he and many others come across as "authority". Most of us here are unusually "Informed" but only to the extent of the media feeds us. Its up to us to determine what is crap and what is not. What is anger, what is hope. We know anger sells more than homerism. Sex sells most but its not easy to sell this regarding the Knicks. Not unless you link David Lee to Caroline Wozinacki and then post her sports illustrated photo:

David Lee, Knick former allstar who was traded to Warriors as the first free agent in the new ownership that started the turn around in "the City" is engaged to Caroline Wozinacki who Will play Simone Halep in the championship match in the Australian open, the first grand slam event of 2018. She has been a former no. 1 5 years ago and has never won a grand slam event. Halep will retain her no. 1 ranking if she wins unless no. 2 Wozinacki defeats her and takes her crown.

Or we can slam Hornacek for ruining Willy even though he was the same coach that "developed" him last year.
Or some way over value that there are a smorgasbord of first round picks for us to feast on and that Perry, like Phil, one of our "Grun's" (feld or Wald), Donnie, Isiah, Ned Irish, etc were negligent to grab one, or bring a doggie bag to load up on them. Because After all, Knicks1248 knows the real story! Briggs "discovers" hidden gems no scout considers. He is like the "indiana jones" of scouts. He finds a player that did well that night, then posts video highlights of that player. Fact is, who ever did those highlights already determined this player is of interest. He will tell you that IT2 if healthy can be a steal. If he is healthy he will boast that it was stupid of us to not trade for him becuase look at what happend!! If he is hurt going forward he'll tell you "Its why I wanted a low risk trial". Have it both ways you can't lose. Fact is somebody has actually make a real decision and be held accountable.

Or. sell sex.....

David Lee scores!!!

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
GustavBahler
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1/25/2018  10:26 AM
Nalod wrote:Every year we take the trade bait articles and get our hopes up. Then we get angry no deal was made as if whom ever was asleep or ignorant.
Rumors are usually fabricated by writers to play with the ideas. Fans love this. I do too. But know the source.
So basically UK fan posts an idea, perhaps based on an article. Then it gets debated an eventually anger ensues because "why the hell didn't we pull the trigger" as if that deal was actually on the table. Fans are not privy to much of what happens. But when it gets regurgitated enough it becomes some sort of fact.
Briggs posts so many ideas some are his own making, some from others. At some point he gain some sort of credibility because of the redundancy. Talk to Trump supporters who believe Trump is great deal maker etc, etc, etc, Blah blah blah.......
Im not saying Briggs is any kind of evil, just that he and many others come across as "authority". Most of us here are unusually "Informed" but only to the extent of the media feeds us. Its up to us to determine what is crap and what is not. What is anger, what is hope. We know anger sells more than homerism. Sex sells most but its not easy to sell this regarding the Knicks. Not unless you link David Lee to Caroline Wozinacki and then post her sports illustrated photo:

David Lee, Knick former allstar who was traded to Warriors as the first free agent in the new ownership that started the turn around in "the City" is engaged to Caroline Wozinacki who Will play Simone Halep in the championship match in the Australian open, the first grand slam event of 2018. She has been a former no. 1 5 years ago and has never won a grand slam event. Halep will retain her no. 1 ranking if she wins unless no. 2 Wozinacki defeats her and takes her crown.

Or we can slam Hornacek for ruining Willy even though he was the same coach that "developed" him last year.
Or some way over value that there are a smorgasbord of first round picks for us to feast on and that Perry, like Phil, one of our "Grun's" (feld or Wald), Donnie, Isiah, Ned Irish, etc were negligent to grab one, or bring a doggie bag to load up on them. Because After all, Knicks1248 knows the real story! Briggs "discovers" hidden gems no scout considers. He is like the "indiana jones" of scouts. He finds a player that did well that night, then posts video highlights of that player. Fact is, who ever did those highlights already determined this player is of interest. He will tell you that IT2 if healthy can be a steal. If he is healthy he will boast that it was stupid of us to not trade for him becuase look at what happend!! If he is hurt going forward he'll tell you "Its why I wanted a low risk trial". Have it both ways you can't lose. Fact is somebody has actually make a real decision and be held accountable.

Or. sell sex.....

David Lee scores!!!

Please explain to me why you are here. Im not kidding. You spend an inordinate amount of time mocking
posters for doing no more than participating in a sports forum, discussing possible scenarios while waiting for the next game, or the next season.

Everything you deride happens on every single sports message board on the Internet, every single day of the week. You act like you're being forced to participate. What were you expecting? The Algonquin Round Table?

Nalod
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1/25/2018  10:51 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Every year we take the trade bait articles and get our hopes up. Then we get angry no deal was made as if whom ever was asleep or ignorant.
Rumors are usually fabricated by writers to play with the ideas. Fans love this. I do too. But know the source.
So basically UK fan posts an idea, perhaps based on an article. Then it gets debated an eventually anger ensues because "why the hell didn't we pull the trigger" as if that deal was actually on the table. Fans are not privy to much of what happens. But when it gets regurgitated enough it becomes some sort of fact.
Briggs posts so many ideas some are his own making, some from others. At some point he gain some sort of credibility because of the redundancy. Talk to Trump supporters who believe Trump is great deal maker etc, etc, etc, Blah blah blah.......
Im not saying Briggs is any kind of evil, just that he and many others come across as "authority". Most of us here are unusually "Informed" but only to the extent of the media feeds us. Its up to us to determine what is crap and what is not. What is anger, what is hope. We know anger sells more than homerism. Sex sells most but its not easy to sell this regarding the Knicks. Not unless you link David Lee to Caroline Wozinacki and then post her sports illustrated photo:

David Lee, Knick former allstar who was traded to Warriors as the first free agent in the new ownership that started the turn around in "the City" is engaged to Caroline Wozinacki who Will play Simone Halep in the championship match in the Australian open, the first grand slam event of 2018. She has been a former no. 1 5 years ago and has never won a grand slam event. Halep will retain her no. 1 ranking if she wins unless no. 2 Wozinacki defeats her and takes her crown.

Or we can slam Hornacek for ruining Willy even though he was the same coach that "developed" him last year.
Or some way over value that there are a smorgasbord of first round picks for us to feast on and that Perry, like Phil, one of our "Grun's" (feld or Wald), Donnie, Isiah, Ned Irish, etc were negligent to grab one, or bring a doggie bag to load up on them. Because After all, Knicks1248 knows the real story! Briggs "discovers" hidden gems no scout considers. He is like the "indiana jones" of scouts. He finds a player that did well that night, then posts video highlights of that player. Fact is, who ever did those highlights already determined this player is of interest. He will tell you that IT2 if healthy can be a steal. If he is healthy he will boast that it was stupid of us to not trade for him becuase look at what happend!! If he is hurt going forward he'll tell you "Its why I wanted a low risk trial". Have it both ways you can't lose. Fact is somebody has actually make a real decision and be held accountable.

Or. sell sex.....

David Lee scores!!!

Please explain to me why you are here. Im not kidding. You spend an inordinate amount of time mocking
posters for doing no more than participating in a sports forum, discussing possible scenarios while waiting for the next game, or the next season.

Everything you deride happens on every single sports message board on the Internet, every single day of the week. You act like you're being forced to participate. What were you expecting? The Algonquin Round Table?

You are being critical of me, so I can point to the same thing? Why do you care? I like to write. I do discuss player ramifications, games, I watch games, discuss observations and then when so called upon, I will poke fun.
Hopefully I add a twist, some bit of humor and if need be use satire. Somtimes it works, sometimes I fail to write it well. Im not the only one that discusses facts and clarity. Not the only one to dispute fake news, mispoken stats, ets. Im not the only one that calls out redundancy. ANd when so guilty of it, I get called out as well.

Why let bullshyt run free? You critical of my Critique. Your just as "Guilty" as I am.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
fishmike
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1/25/2018  10:57 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Golden State Warriors Receive: C Kyle O'Quinn

New York Knicks Receive: SG/SF Nick Young, 2018 first-round pick

Atlanta Hawks Receive: PF/C Mirza Teletovic (injured), SG/SF Rashad Vaughn, PF/C D.J. Wilson, 2020 second-round pick (via Milwaukee)

Milwaukee Bucks Receive: SF/PF Michael Beasley, PG Jarrett Jack, C Enes Kanter, SG/SF Marco Belinelli

New York Knicks Receive: PG/SG Malcolm Brogdon, PG/SG Matthew Dellavedova, PF/C Ersan Ilyasova

The KOQ deal is a no brainer if we are looking to move him. Get the late #1 for a guy who isnt in your future plans.
The other deal sucks unless you covet Brogden which I dont. He's wonderful if you drafted him. Im not trading all those guys and taking fodder back just to get Brogden who I then have to resign to a longer deal.


KOQ is a good 2 way player. Why do you think GSW wants him? He SHOULD be in our future plans. The 30th pick isn't good enough compensation.
Bonn... I am OK with resigning him. He's a good 2 way BENCH player who is 28. Is $8 or $10mm a year reasonable to pay KOQ to play 20 minutes a night? Absolutely. Thats a nice role player and we see that here. Does spending that money on a role player make sense at this stage considering where we are in development of this roster? That is the real question.

Do you want to bring KOQ and Beas back? That is going to cost you about $18mm a year (combined). Do you want those two taking up that money or do you want to go after another young guy who might be a starter or more a core guy like they did with THjr?

Bonn.. I dont think there is a clear answer, but you have to acknowledge there needs to be some fluidity with this roster. If the Knicks want to work on clearing down the cap to get flexible, especially before they may have to supermax KP than avoiding paying role players and getting some other young talent in here (pick 30) is a good move, even if in the short term GS gets the better of the deal.

GustavBahler
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1/25/2018  11:06 AM
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:Every year we take the trade bait articles and get our hopes up. Then we get angry no deal was made as if whom ever was asleep or ignorant.
Rumors are usually fabricated by writers to play with the ideas. Fans love this. I do too. But know the source.
So basically UK fan posts an idea, perhaps based on an article. Then it gets debated an eventually anger ensues because "why the hell didn't we pull the trigger" as if that deal was actually on the table. Fans are not privy to much of what happens. But when it gets regurgitated enough it becomes some sort of fact.
Briggs posts so many ideas some are his own making, some from others. At some point he gain some sort of credibility because of the redundancy. Talk to Trump supporters who believe Trump is great deal maker etc, etc, etc, Blah blah blah.......
Im not saying Briggs is any kind of evil, just that he and many others come across as "authority". Most of us here are unusually "Informed" but only to the extent of the media feeds us. Its up to us to determine what is crap and what is not. What is anger, what is hope. We know anger sells more than homerism. Sex sells most but its not easy to sell this regarding the Knicks. Not unless you link David Lee to Caroline Wozinacki and then post her sports illustrated photo:

David Lee, Knick former allstar who was traded to Warriors as the first free agent in the new ownership that started the turn around in "the City" is engaged to Caroline Wozinacki who Will play Simone Halep in the championship match in the Australian open, the first grand slam event of 2018. She has been a former no. 1 5 years ago and has never won a grand slam event. Halep will retain her no. 1 ranking if she wins unless no. 2 Wozinacki defeats her and takes her crown.

Or we can slam Hornacek for ruining Willy even though he was the same coach that "developed" him last year.
Or some way over value that there are a smorgasbord of first round picks for us to feast on and that Perry, like Phil, one of our "Grun's" (feld or Wald), Donnie, Isiah, Ned Irish, etc were negligent to grab one, or bring a doggie bag to load up on them. Because After all, Knicks1248 knows the real story! Briggs "discovers" hidden gems no scout considers. He is like the "indiana jones" of scouts. He finds a player that did well that night, then posts video highlights of that player. Fact is, who ever did those highlights already determined this player is of interest. He will tell you that IT2 if healthy can be a steal. If he is healthy he will boast that it was stupid of us to not trade for him becuase look at what happend!! If he is hurt going forward he'll tell you "Its why I wanted a low risk trial". Have it both ways you can't lose. Fact is somebody has actually make a real decision and be held accountable.

Or. sell sex.....

David Lee scores!!!

Please explain to me why you are here. Im not kidding. You spend an inordinate amount of time mocking
posters for doing no more than participating in a sports forum, discussing possible scenarios while waiting for the next game, or the next season.

Everything you deride happens on every single sports message board on the Internet, every single day of the week. You act like you're being forced to participate. What were you expecting? The Algonquin Round Table?

You are being critical of me, so I can point to the same thing? Why do you care? I like to write. I do discuss player ramifications, games, I watch games, discuss observations and then when so called upon, I will poke fun.
Hopefully I add a twist, some bit of humor and if need be use satire. Somtimes it works, sometimes I fail to write it well. Im not the only one that discusses facts and clarity. Not the only one to dispute fake news, mispoken stats, ets. Im not the only one that calls out redundancy. ANd when so guilty of it, I get called out as well.

Why let bullshyt run free? You critical of my Critique. Your just as "Guilty" as I am.

You go beyond regularly insulting other poster by name, beyond just friendly trash talk. You regularly question the very concept of an online sports forum. Might understand this if it were the early 1990's, but I believe it just might catch on!

Sure, you're also giving an opinion. Your opinion is that you have the only opinion that matters here, and you challenge the qualifications of anyone else to even offer an opinion, let alone the opinion itself.

Thats what these little rants of yours are about. Thats one big pile of caca. Not running free, always there.

Nalod
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1/25/2018  11:08 AM
seemingly if GS wants him then it sort of validates him?
If teams want willy it validates him. Interesting that Horny said recently (Or it was quoted again recently) that Willy came into came "Full of himself". He lost his spot and since Enes or KOQ have not been hurt or play dipped then its not easy to take their spot.
Same for Noah, so seemingly is healthy. WE have a culture of "he who plays best thou earnest their spot".
Im am all for converting our logjam to picks or better priced assets. In the end I'd be ok with letting KOQ walk and Willy earn his way up. We got good value for KOQ and its up to another team to make it worth our while to trade him.
The media is making willy seem like a victim. Bottom line is even for him traded he has to play well on knicks or any other team to fulfil his ambition. He has two years left on his contract so his pay day is age 25. I always root for a knick to succeed and prefer he get it going here than for another team.
If he and KP are good buddies he should hang with KP in the off season or get the hint that he has to put the work in. KP will lose respect for him if he does not. That never helps friendships. This is a business, KP knows this and we can't keep Willy around becuase we fear it will offend KP.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Bonn1997
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1/25/2018  4:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/25/2018  4:45 PM
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Golden State Warriors Receive: C Kyle O'Quinn

New York Knicks Receive: SG/SF Nick Young, 2018 first-round pick

Atlanta Hawks Receive: PF/C Mirza Teletovic (injured), SG/SF Rashad Vaughn, PF/C D.J. Wilson, 2020 second-round pick (via Milwaukee)

Milwaukee Bucks Receive: SF/PF Michael Beasley, PG Jarrett Jack, C Enes Kanter, SG/SF Marco Belinelli

New York Knicks Receive: PG/SG Malcolm Brogdon, PG/SG Matthew Dellavedova, PF/C Ersan Ilyasova

The KOQ deal is a no brainer if we are looking to move him. Get the late #1 for a guy who isnt in your future plans.
The other deal sucks unless you covet Brogden which I dont. He's wonderful if you drafted him. Im not trading all those guys and taking fodder back just to get Brogden who I then have to resign to a longer deal.


KOQ is a good 2 way player. Why do you think GSW wants him? He SHOULD be in our future plans. The 30th pick isn't good enough compensation.
Bonn... I am OK with resigning him. He's a good 2 way BENCH player who is 28. Is $8 or $10mm a year reasonable to pay KOQ to play 20 minutes a night? Absolutely. Thats a nice role player and we see that here. Does spending that money on a role player make sense at this stage considering where we are in development of this roster? That is the real question.

Do you want to bring KOQ and Beas back? That is going to cost you about $18mm a year (combined). Do you want those two taking up that money or do you want to go after another young guy who might be a starter or more a core guy like they did with THjr?

Bonn.. I dont think there is a clear answer, but you have to acknowledge there needs to be some fluidity with this roster. If the Knicks want to work on clearing down the cap to get flexible, especially before they may have to supermax KP than avoiding paying role players and getting some other young talent in here (pick 30) is a good move, even if in the short term GS gets the better of the deal.


I think $8 mil a year brings KOQ back and that helps much more than getting pick #30. I guess it depends on what you mean by bench player. Kanter is a bench player playing 25 mpg. (Bench player minutes but as a starter.) I'm sure KOQ can do that and we don't need more.
I doubt I'd want Beasley back unless he'd sign for near the vet min. I'm looking at his whole career, not just the last 200 or 300 min stretch.
martin
Posts: 47523
Alba Posts: 106
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Member: #2
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1/25/2018  4:47 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Golden State Warriors Receive: C Kyle O'Quinn

New York Knicks Receive: SG/SF Nick Young, 2018 first-round pick

Atlanta Hawks Receive: PF/C Mirza Teletovic (injured), SG/SF Rashad Vaughn, PF/C D.J. Wilson, 2020 second-round pick (via Milwaukee)

Milwaukee Bucks Receive: SF/PF Michael Beasley, PG Jarrett Jack, C Enes Kanter, SG/SF Marco Belinelli

New York Knicks Receive: PG/SG Malcolm Brogdon, PG/SG Matthew Dellavedova, PF/C Ersan Ilyasova

The KOQ deal is a no brainer if we are looking to move him. Get the late #1 for a guy who isnt in your future plans.
The other deal sucks unless you covet Brogden which I dont. He's wonderful if you drafted him. Im not trading all those guys and taking fodder back just to get Brogden who I then have to resign to a longer deal.


KOQ is a good 2 way player. Why do you think GSW wants him? He SHOULD be in our future plans. The 30th pick isn't good enough compensation.
Bonn... I am OK with resigning him. He's a good 2 way BENCH player who is 28. Is $8 or $10mm a year reasonable to pay KOQ to play 20 minutes a night? Absolutely. Thats a nice role player and we see that here. Does spending that money on a role player make sense at this stage considering where we are in development of this roster? That is the real question.

Do you want to bring KOQ and Beas back? That is going to cost you about $18mm a year (combined). Do you want those two taking up that money or do you want to go after another young guy who might be a starter or more a core guy like they did with THjr?

Bonn.. I dont think there is a clear answer, but you have to acknowledge there needs to be some fluidity with this roster. If the Knicks want to work on clearing down the cap to get flexible, especially before they may have to supermax KP than avoiding paying role players and getting some other young talent in here (pick 30) is a good move, even if in the short term GS gets the better of the deal.


I think $8 mil a year brings KOQ back and that helps much more than getting pick #30. I doubt I'd want Beasley back unless he'd sign for near the vet min. I'm looking at his whole career, not just the last 200 or 300 min stretch.

Think of it differently. KOQ may be a better player than a #30th pick but his salary (along with what is already on the Knicks) will also take you out of the FA market for the duration of his contract (give or take).

Without his contract, you have max room - or near max room - in a year and definitely in 2 if you play your cards right.

So, it's not just KOQ v #30th pick really.

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fishmike
Posts: 48813
Alba Posts: 1
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1/25/2018  5:04 PM
martin wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Golden State Warriors Receive: C Kyle O'Quinn

New York Knicks Receive: SG/SF Nick Young, 2018 first-round pick

Atlanta Hawks Receive: PF/C Mirza Teletovic (injured), SG/SF Rashad Vaughn, PF/C D.J. Wilson, 2020 second-round pick (via Milwaukee)

Milwaukee Bucks Receive: SF/PF Michael Beasley, PG Jarrett Jack, C Enes Kanter, SG/SF Marco Belinelli

New York Knicks Receive: PG/SG Malcolm Brogdon, PG/SG Matthew Dellavedova, PF/C Ersan Ilyasova

The KOQ deal is a no brainer if we are looking to move him. Get the late #1 for a guy who isnt in your future plans.
The other deal sucks unless you covet Brogden which I dont. He's wonderful if you drafted him. Im not trading all those guys and taking fodder back just to get Brogden who I then have to resign to a longer deal.


KOQ is a good 2 way player. Why do you think GSW wants him? He SHOULD be in our future plans. The 30th pick isn't good enough compensation.
Bonn... I am OK with resigning him. He's a good 2 way BENCH player who is 28. Is $8 or $10mm a year reasonable to pay KOQ to play 20 minutes a night? Absolutely. Thats a nice role player and we see that here. Does spending that money on a role player make sense at this stage considering where we are in development of this roster? That is the real question.

Do you want to bring KOQ and Beas back? That is going to cost you about $18mm a year (combined). Do you want those two taking up that money or do you want to go after another young guy who might be a starter or more a core guy like they did with THjr?

Bonn.. I dont think there is a clear answer, but you have to acknowledge there needs to be some fluidity with this roster. If the Knicks want to work on clearing down the cap to get flexible, especially before they may have to supermax KP than avoiding paying role players and getting some other young talent in here (pick 30) is a good move, even if in the short term GS gets the better of the deal.


I think $8 mil a year brings KOQ back and that helps much more than getting pick #30. I doubt I'd want Beasley back unless he'd sign for near the vet min. I'm looking at his whole career, not just the last 200 or 300 min stretch.

Think of it differently. KOQ may be a better player than a #30th pick but his salary (along with what is already on the Knicks) will also take you out of the FA market for the duration of his contract (give or take).

Without his contract, you have max room - or near max room - in a year and definitely in 2 if you play your cards right.

So, it's not just KOQ v #30th pick really.

the question is if they do take that value do they have a specific FA in mind or is that flexibility alone worth the loss in talent/production?
technomaster
Posts: 22214
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1/25/2018  5:43 PM
A player is worth what even 1 team is willing to pay.

Even if he opts out, the team's bird rights have extra value for a team that's over the cap.

If you can get a 1st round pick (even if it's the 30th)... perhaps you go for it. It'll hurt our chemistry a bit, but you also might catch some magic when either Willy or Noah are unleashed to take up his minutes.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
Bonn1997
Posts: 58599
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1/25/2018  6:21 PM
martin wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Golden State Warriors Receive: C Kyle O'Quinn

New York Knicks Receive: SG/SF Nick Young, 2018 first-round pick

Atlanta Hawks Receive: PF/C Mirza Teletovic (injured), SG/SF Rashad Vaughn, PF/C D.J. Wilson, 2020 second-round pick (via Milwaukee)

Milwaukee Bucks Receive: SF/PF Michael Beasley, PG Jarrett Jack, C Enes Kanter, SG/SF Marco Belinelli

New York Knicks Receive: PG/SG Malcolm Brogdon, PG/SG Matthew Dellavedova, PF/C Ersan Ilyasova

The KOQ deal is a no brainer if we are looking to move him. Get the late #1 for a guy who isnt in your future plans.
The other deal sucks unless you covet Brogden which I dont. He's wonderful if you drafted him. Im not trading all those guys and taking fodder back just to get Brogden who I then have to resign to a longer deal.


KOQ is a good 2 way player. Why do you think GSW wants him? He SHOULD be in our future plans. The 30th pick isn't good enough compensation.
Bonn... I am OK with resigning him. He's a good 2 way BENCH player who is 28. Is $8 or $10mm a year reasonable to pay KOQ to play 20 minutes a night? Absolutely. Thats a nice role player and we see that here. Does spending that money on a role player make sense at this stage considering where we are in development of this roster? That is the real question.

Do you want to bring KOQ and Beas back? That is going to cost you about $18mm a year (combined). Do you want those two taking up that money or do you want to go after another young guy who might be a starter or more a core guy like they did with THjr?

Bonn.. I dont think there is a clear answer, but you have to acknowledge there needs to be some fluidity with this roster. If the Knicks want to work on clearing down the cap to get flexible, especially before they may have to supermax KP than avoiding paying role players and getting some other young talent in here (pick 30) is a good move, even if in the short term GS gets the better of the deal.


I think $8 mil a year brings KOQ back and that helps much more than getting pick #30. I doubt I'd want Beasley back unless he'd sign for near the vet min. I'm looking at his whole career, not just the last 200 or 300 min stretch.

Think of it differently. KOQ may be a better player than a #30th pick but his salary (along with what is already on the Knicks) will also take you out of the FA market for the duration of his contract (give or take).

Without his contract, you have max room - or near max room - in a year and definitely in 2 if you play your cards right.

So, it's not just KOQ v #30th pick really.


I didn't realize Nick Young had an expiring contract. I doubt any star FA wants to come here though.
martin
Posts: 47523
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
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1/25/2018  6:48 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
martin wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Golden State Warriors Receive: C Kyle O'Quinn

New York Knicks Receive: SG/SF Nick Young, 2018 first-round pick

Atlanta Hawks Receive: PF/C Mirza Teletovic (injured), SG/SF Rashad Vaughn, PF/C D.J. Wilson, 2020 second-round pick (via Milwaukee)

Milwaukee Bucks Receive: SF/PF Michael Beasley, PG Jarrett Jack, C Enes Kanter, SG/SF Marco Belinelli

New York Knicks Receive: PG/SG Malcolm Brogdon, PG/SG Matthew Dellavedova, PF/C Ersan Ilyasova

The KOQ deal is a no brainer if we are looking to move him. Get the late #1 for a guy who isnt in your future plans.
The other deal sucks unless you covet Brogden which I dont. He's wonderful if you drafted him. Im not trading all those guys and taking fodder back just to get Brogden who I then have to resign to a longer deal.


KOQ is a good 2 way player. Why do you think GSW wants him? He SHOULD be in our future plans. The 30th pick isn't good enough compensation.
Bonn... I am OK with resigning him. He's a good 2 way BENCH player who is 28. Is $8 or $10mm a year reasonable to pay KOQ to play 20 minutes a night? Absolutely. Thats a nice role player and we see that here. Does spending that money on a role player make sense at this stage considering where we are in development of this roster? That is the real question.

Do you want to bring KOQ and Beas back? That is going to cost you about $18mm a year (combined). Do you want those two taking up that money or do you want to go after another young guy who might be a starter or more a core guy like they did with THjr?

Bonn.. I dont think there is a clear answer, but you have to acknowledge there needs to be some fluidity with this roster. If the Knicks want to work on clearing down the cap to get flexible, especially before they may have to supermax KP than avoiding paying role players and getting some other young talent in here (pick 30) is a good move, even if in the short term GS gets the better of the deal.


I think $8 mil a year brings KOQ back and that helps much more than getting pick #30. I doubt I'd want Beasley back unless he'd sign for near the vet min. I'm looking at his whole career, not just the last 200 or 300 min stretch.

Think of it differently. KOQ may be a better player than a #30th pick but his salary (along with what is already on the Knicks) will also take you out of the FA market for the duration of his contract (give or take).

Without his contract, you have max room - or near max room - in a year and definitely in 2 if you play your cards right.

So, it's not just KOQ v #30th pick really.


I didn't realize Nick Young had an expiring contract. I doubt any star FA wants to come here though.

I mean, we should just give up total hope now.

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GustavBahler
Posts: 34428
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

1/25/2018  6:50 PM
martin wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
martin wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Golden State Warriors Receive: C Kyle O'Quinn

New York Knicks Receive: SG/SF Nick Young, 2018 first-round pick

Atlanta Hawks Receive: PF/C Mirza Teletovic (injured), SG/SF Rashad Vaughn, PF/C D.J. Wilson, 2020 second-round pick (via Milwaukee)

Milwaukee Bucks Receive: SF/PF Michael Beasley, PG Jarrett Jack, C Enes Kanter, SG/SF Marco Belinelli

New York Knicks Receive: PG/SG Malcolm Brogdon, PG/SG Matthew Dellavedova, PF/C Ersan Ilyasova

The KOQ deal is a no brainer if we are looking to move him. Get the late #1 for a guy who isnt in your future plans.
The other deal sucks unless you covet Brogden which I dont. He's wonderful if you drafted him. Im not trading all those guys and taking fodder back just to get Brogden who I then have to resign to a longer deal.


KOQ is a good 2 way player. Why do you think GSW wants him? He SHOULD be in our future plans. The 30th pick isn't good enough compensation.
Bonn... I am OK with resigning him. He's a good 2 way BENCH player who is 28. Is $8 or $10mm a year reasonable to pay KOQ to play 20 minutes a night? Absolutely. Thats a nice role player and we see that here. Does spending that money on a role player make sense at this stage considering where we are in development of this roster? That is the real question.

Do you want to bring KOQ and Beas back? That is going to cost you about $18mm a year (combined). Do you want those two taking up that money or do you want to go after another young guy who might be a starter or more a core guy like they did with THjr?

Bonn.. I dont think there is a clear answer, but you have to acknowledge there needs to be some fluidity with this roster. If the Knicks want to work on clearing down the cap to get flexible, especially before they may have to supermax KP than avoiding paying role players and getting some other young talent in here (pick 30) is a good move, even if in the short term GS gets the better of the deal.


I think $8 mil a year brings KOQ back and that helps much more than getting pick #30. I doubt I'd want Beasley back unless he'd sign for near the vet min. I'm looking at his whole career, not just the last 200 or 300 min stretch.

Think of it differently. KOQ may be a better player than a #30th pick but his salary (along with what is already on the Knicks) will also take you out of the FA market for the duration of his contract (give or take).

Without his contract, you have max room - or near max room - in a year and definitely in 2 if you play your cards right.

So, it's not just KOQ v #30th pick really.


I didn't realize Nick Young had an expiring contract. I doubt any star FA wants to come here though.

I mean, we should just give up total hope now.

Cooties are hard to live down

NardDogNation
Posts: 26752
Alba Posts: 4
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1/25/2018  7:34 PM
martin wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
martin wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:If my hand is forced into moving O'Quinn, I want far more than a bad contract and an inconsequential pick.

Pretty sure Knicks wouldn't think of this trade as a bad contract and inconsequential pick. Are 1st rounders inconsequential? Maybe not for you but I'd guess most teams would like them for an expiring who is redundant and will probably price himself out of the team.

Why is Nick Young a bad contract? It's expiring.

I like this trade for both teams.

I thought Nick Young signed a two year deal with them. Him as an expirer makes the deal more palatable but I can't help but feel we need more than the 30th pick in the draft for a player with a 19.8 PER. If he became a Warrior tonight, he'd be 5th on the team in that regard without having benefited from the passing and floor spacing of Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Klay Thompson and Draymond Green. I think that kind of talent requires more, especially when it comes with cost-control.

Downside of not trading KOQ for a 1st rounder is losing him for nothing or being in a spot where you feel like you need to sign him to a contract that may have long term repercussions.

I've said this before: I think KOQ would be a great second big off bench for a deep playoff team, a last guy sort of addition. For the Knicks, they would need to sign him to $7m+ and it would clog up salary cap long term. 1st round pick wouldn't.

I understand your point but feel that you're underestimating what he's worth. Yes, the center position is oversaturated with talent but how many centers can do what O'Quinn does at that pricetag? The Warriors save a prorated $1.1 million in the deal, which has a multiplier effect on their luxury tax bill as a repeat offender and get a player that is better than anything they have at the position...with cost-control for one more season! Picks that late in the first round are regularly auctioned off for cash but we'd be giving up talent AND taking back dead money, which would be doing the Warriors a huge favor.

NBA Trade Deadline dealing : Knicks Brogden, Dellavado etc

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