[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

I know Ntilikina is only 19 but...
Author Thread
smackeddog
Posts: 33135
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2005
Member: #883
1/20/2018  5:30 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
smackeddog wrote:I think we should have a rule where every rookie we draft is traded after 45 games.

KP will be the Knicks first lotto pick to stick for 3 full seasons since the 2nd yr the lottery was in place(1986).

Was Greg Anthony a lottery pick? Hill, Frye, Gallo were not great picks in my opinion. Loved the Nene pick but hated the draft night trade. Think that is it for Knick lotto picks but I might be wrong.

Kenny Walker, Greg Anthony just missed that lottery bubble as at that time lotto was up to 11 picks.

Sweetney would be the only one you are missing. Since 01-02 basically the end of the Spree-Houston-Camby era. Knicks have missed the playoffs 12 times while only drafting in the lotto 6 times. Then with the 5 we drafted not counting Frank only KP has lasted for 3 full years.

They weren't great picks. But Nene, Sweetney, Frye, & Hill were all traded in bad short sighted win now trades that ended up hurting the team in the long run.

And that's the crux of the issue for me- some people on these boards seem to think if a player we draft isn't a superstar then they're worthless and must be traded at once. These are the same people who then cry and say we should never have traded them a few years later when they become good role players after their teams have spent a few years developing them.

AUTOADVERT
BigRedDog
Posts: 21906
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 1/23/2004
Member: #569
1/20/2018  5:41 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
smackeddog wrote:I think we should have a rule where every rookie we draft is traded after 45 games.

KP will be the Knicks first lotto pick to stick for 3 full seasons since the 2nd yr the lottery was in place(1986).

Was Greg Anthony a lottery pick? Hill, Frye, Gallo were not great picks in my opinion. Loved the Nene pick but hated the draft night trade. Think that is it for Knick lotto picks but I might be wrong.

Kenny Walker, Greg Anthony just missed that lottery bubble as at that time lotto was up to 11 picks.

Sweetney would be the only one you are missing. Since 01-02 basically the end of the Spree-Houston-Camby era. Knicks have missed the playoffs 12 times while only drafting in the lotto 6 times. Then with the 5 we drafted not counting Frank only KP has lasted for 3 full years.

They weren't great picks. But Nene, Sweetney, Frye, & Hill were all traded in bad short sighted win now trades that ended up hurting the team in the long run.

Walker was the 5th pick in the draft

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
newyorknewyork
Posts: 28038
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
1/20/2018  5:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/20/2018  5:49 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
smackeddog wrote:I think we should have a rule where every rookie we draft is traded after 45 games.

KP will be the Knicks first lotto pick to stick for 3 full seasons since the 2nd yr the lottery was in place(1986).

Was Greg Anthony a lottery pick? Hill, Frye, Gallo were not great picks in my opinion. Loved the Nene pick but hated the draft night trade. Think that is it for Knick lotto picks but I might be wrong.

Kenny Walker, Greg Anthony just missed that lottery bubble as at that time lotto was up to 11 picks.

Sweetney would be the only one you are missing. Since 01-02 basically the end of the Spree-Houston-Camby era. Knicks have missed the playoffs 12 times while only drafting in the lotto 6 times. Then with the 5 we drafted not counting Frank only KP has lasted for 3 full years.

They weren't great picks. But Nene, Sweetney, Frye, & Hill were all traded in bad short sighted win now trades that ended up hurting the team in the long run.

Walker was the 5th pick in the draft

I know, since Walker in 1986 a Knicks lotto pick hasn't lasted 3 full season with the team until KP does it this season in 2018. 32 years but to be fair Knicks were in the playoffs every yr until 2001. So 17 yrs would be more accurate.

Walker's name was used to answer Crush's question.

SRacide
Posts: 20026
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/29/2017
Member: #7604

1/20/2018  6:19 PM
So yes, of course, I am in favor of Frank for the good of the team, but I prefer to see Frank being the King of New York 50 Triple doubles per season, to make the French proud, etc ... that's all I want him to be .
But if Kemba can come and Frank is in the transaction we will win.
In Charlotte it will be less under the light and therefore less pressure.
In short, I love you Frank
Jmpasq
Posts: 23484
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/10/2012
Member: #4182

1/20/2018  6:26 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
smackeddog wrote:I think we should have a rule where every rookie we draft is traded after 45 games.

KP will be the Knicks first lotto pick to stick for 3 full seasons since the 2nd yr the lottery was in place(1986).

Was Greg Anthony a lottery pick? Hill, Frye, Gallo were not great picks in my opinion. Loved the Nene pick but hated the draft night trade. Think that is it for Knick lotto picks but I might be wrong.

Kenny Walker, Greg Anthony just missed that lottery bubble as at that time lotto was up to 11 picks.

Sweetney would be the only one you are missing. Since 01-02 basically the end of the Spree-Houston-Camby era. Knicks have missed the playoffs 12 times while only drafting in the lotto 6 times. Then with the 5 we drafted not counting Frank only KP has lasted for 3 full years.

They weren't great picks. But Nene, Sweetney, Frye, & Hill were all traded in bad short sighted win now trades that ended up hurting the team in the long run.

Did anyone here like the Mcydess trade? I loved Camby was so pissed when we got rid of him. Could you imagine had we just drafted Amare and kept Camby.

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
CrushAlot
Posts: 57069
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
1/20/2018  6:47 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
smackeddog wrote:I think we should have a rule where every rookie we draft is traded after 45 games.

KP will be the Knicks first lotto pick to stick for 3 full seasons since the 2nd yr the lottery was in place(1986).

Was Greg Anthony a lottery pick? Hill, Frye, Gallo were not great picks in my opinion. Loved the Nene pick but hated the draft night trade. Think that is it for Knick lotto picks but I might be wrong.

Kenny Walker, Greg Anthony just missed that lottery bubble as at that time lotto was up to 11 picks.

Sweetney would be the only one you are missing. Since 01-02 basically the end of the Spree-Houston-Camby era. Knicks have missed the playoffs 12 times while only drafting in the lotto 6 times. Then with the 5 we drafted not counting Frank only KP has lasted for 3 full years.

They weren't great picks. But Nene, Sweetney, Frye, & Hill were all traded in bad short sighted win now trades that ended up hurting the team in the long run.

Did anyone here like the Mcydess trade? I loved Camby was so pissed when we got rid of him. Could you imagine had we just drafted Amare and kept Camby.


I was so pissed. I was on my way to a draft party and they were speculating about that trade on the radio. My boys were really little then and I didn't get out much. It ruined my night and caused anger for me for many years as a fan. Camby and Nene could have been cornerstone players for the franchise for the next 10 yrs.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
TLover
Posts: 20738
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 2/12/2003
Member: #381
USA
1/21/2018  12:59 AM
I’m a Burke believer bc he refined his skill & mental set (like Hardaway) in the D league.. hence I’d take a chance in trading Frank for a return that may never be higher.
nixluva
Posts: 56229
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
1/21/2018  1:33 AM
TLover wrote:I’m a Burke believer bc he refined his skill & mental set (like Hardaway) in the D league.. hence I’d take a chance in trading Frank for a return that may never be higher.

Frank is already a top Defender among rookies. Top 3 in Assist Ratio among rookies. His only major issue is exactly what we knew it would be. He’s got time to work on his offense going forward. He wasn’t drafted cuz they thought he’d light it up day one!

Donovan Mitchell is all the rage but when he was 19 he wasn’t draft worthy. On top of that he’s more of an undersized SG. Frank isn’t a small fast twitch type so yeah he looks more robotic than a typical PG.

Gotta stick with the kid and allow him time to develop. I expect he’s going to fill out his frame quite a bit which will give him some strength to finish better and muscle smaller guards.

nykshaknbake
Posts: 22057
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2003
Member: #492
1/21/2018  6:13 AM
Whether or not he was a bad pick at 8 is water under the bridge. You just aren't going to get much for him now. He still co ul ld turn out to be a nice player. Nothing to do but keep try in ng to develop him. Rookie PGs usually struggle, but he may benefit from some G league time.
nyknickzingis
Posts: 22920
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/8/2015
Member: #6207

1/21/2018  8:04 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2018  8:06 AM
Especially with the way Tim is playing in his return to NY I think Frank will make a great complement to KP and THj.

We need a guard that will bring the ball up, set the offense up and make outside shots to keep spacing for Kp and Tim.

This year Frank is a rookie PG and his decision making is inconsistent. This will improve the fastest with experience. I'm sure he will work on his jumper.


What we need is a big to pair with KP that can play fast and spread the floor, rebound.
CLee can suffice as starter until we get better there.

We really need that lineup where KP, Tim can play freely. CLee and Frank are good complementary two way guys. The missing piece is the fifth starter. It's not Kanter. We should be looking to find someone like Beasley but with better size and defense.

Julius Randle is a guy I'd look at this summer if we can clear cap space ... has been defending the 5 for the Lakers this year and rebounds well. Would allow KP to play 5 or 4. Lakers aren't matching. They may even do a deal now for OQuinn, two second rounders.

nykshaknbake
Posts: 22057
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2003
Member: #492
1/21/2018  10:12 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2018  10:14 AM
nixluva wrote:
TLover wrote:I’m a Burke believer bc he refined his skill & mental set (like Hardaway) in the D league.. hence I’d take a chance in trading Frank for a return that may never be higher.

Frank is already a top Defender among rookies. Top 3 in Assist Ratio among rookies. His only major issue is exactly what we knew it would be. He’s got time to work on his offense going forward. He wasn’t drafted cuz they thought he’d light it up day one!

Donovan Mitchell is all the rage but when he was 19 he wasn’t draft worthy. On top of that he’s more of an undersized SG. Frank isn’t a small fast twitch type so yeah he looks more robotic than a typical PG.

Gotta stick with the kid and allow him time to develop. I expect he’s going to fill out his frame quite a bit which will give him some strength to finish better and muscle smaller guards.

At pick 8, you would hope there would be some significant positives. No need to sugercoat things. I think noone thought the negatives were as deep as what we've seen. If he wasn't a good or if he was only an average defender, he wouldn't even be coming off a bench for an NBA team.

GustavBahler
Posts: 34708
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

1/21/2018  10:25 AM
Frank got the quick hook last game after his second time on the court. Didn't look too happy to see Burke take his minutes, and do something with them. Could be a good thing if Frank decides to do something about it.

Its not a given that a switch will go on, and Frank will consistently push the tempo, as pretty much everyone on the team has encouraged him to do. He's learning now that his unwillingness to push the tempo (for whatever the reason) has consequences. Its up to Frank to respond.

Paris907
Posts: 21146
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/4/2015
Member: #6099
USA
1/21/2018  10:37 AM
SRacide wrote:So yes, of course, I am in favor of Frank for the good of the team, but I prefer to see Frank being the King of New York 50 Triple doubles per season, to make the French proud, etc ... that's all I want him to be .
But if Kemba can come and Frank is in the transaction we will win.
In Charlotte it will be less under the light and therefore less pressure.
In short, I love you Frank

Como va-tu? So, Kemba clearly helps BUT... with Kanter gone, and presumably KOQ, we’ve Noah and Wily
The former incapable of playing 35 minutes the latter inept on the defensive end. KP Kemba, Batum, and THJr don’t play meaningful defense. Thus a defensive 5 is critical. Lee and Thomas may also be moved and they are the defensively minded. Kanter plays no D. So my point is that you are a 500 team w Kamba. You’ve made the playoffs but the rebuild is OVER. We’ve the prospect of a pick but the payroll will soar as Noah and Batum ($24mm) is crippling.

sealy
Posts: 20621
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/1/2010
Member: #3291
USA
1/21/2018  11:13 AM
nixluva wrote:
TLover wrote:I’m a Burke believer bc he refined his skill & mental set (like Hardaway) in the D league.. hence I’d take a chance in trading Frank for a return that may never be higher.

Frank is already a top Defender among rookies. Top 3 in Assist Ratio among rookies. His only major issue is exactly what we knew it would be. He’s got time to work on his offense going forward. He wasn’t drafted cuz they thought he’d light it up day one!

Donovan Mitchell is all the rage but when he was 19 he wasn’t draft worthy. On top of that he’s more of an undersized SG. Frank isn’t a small fast twitch type so yeah he looks more robotic than a typical PG.

Gotta stick with the kid and allow him time to develop. I expect he’s going to fill out his frame quite a bit which will give him some strength to finish better and muscle smaller guards.

I couldn't agree more, patience is key. Would've been nice to be rolling w/ Rubio and Mitchell, but Frank is no scrub.

If anything, Perry should scrap a run at the playoffs and start unloading O'Quinn, Lee, Beasley, and any others that bring value to a contending team and help accumulate assets for a deep draft class. If Kanter was able to yield a serious return, I'd even trade him. I'm sure if Wily wasn't such a question mark he'd be on the block by now.

nixluva
Posts: 56229
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
1/21/2018  11:23 AM
nykshaknbake wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TLover wrote:I’m a Burke believer bc he refined his skill & mental set (like Hardaway) in the D league.. hence I’d take a chance in trading Frank for a return that may never be higher.

Frank is already a top Defender among rookies. Top 3 in Assist Ratio among rookies. His only major issue is exactly what we knew it would be. He’s got time to work on his offense going forward. He wasn’t drafted cuz they thought he’d light it up day one!

Donovan Mitchell is all the rage but when he was 19 he wasn’t draft worthy. On top of that he’s more of an undersized SG. Frank isn’t a small fast twitch type so yeah he looks more robotic than a typical PG.

Gotta stick with the kid and allow him time to develop. I expect he’s going to fill out his frame quite a bit which will give him some strength to finish better and muscle smaller guards.

At pick 8, you would hope there would be some significant positives. No need to sugercoat things. I think noone thought the negatives were as deep as what we've seen. If he wasn't a good or if he was only an average defender, he wouldn't even be coming off a bench for an NBA team.

Negatives? Frank is TOPS on the team as a player with KP! That’s not a small thing. Frank is ranked #3 among ALL rookies in Assist Ratio. The D he plays is of course a HUGE factor in him being drafted!

Frank is going to be a STUD when he’s more developed.

NYKBocker
Posts: 35595
Alba Posts: 472
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
1/21/2018  11:53 AM
Dang. Grass is always greener on the other side I guess
NardDogNation
Posts: 26778
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 5/7/2013
Member: #5555

1/21/2018  12:26 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2018  12:31 PM
I'm all for getting Josh Jackson but not at the expense of Frank (though I do agree that Josh's ceiling is way higher). If there is a chance to get Jackson, I've warmed to the idea of including our 1st round pick (top 5 protected) and the Bulls' 2nd rounder to make it happen. I'd do Ron Baker, Doug McDermott and the picks for Josh Jackson and Brandon Knight's awful contract.


I think we'd be robbing the Suns in this trade but there are credible rumors that Sarver is looking to cut cost for an impending sale, which this trade helps them do while recouping some draft value for Jackson. We'd be assuming a fair amount of risk in this deal, since Jackson's archetype of athletic 3's that can't shoot (e.g. Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow, MKG, etc.) are failing around the league. Even ao, Jackson is still young enough where his shot can be fixed and his overall game improved enough for me to make the deal. He reminds me so much of a Paul George that I think it is a gamble worth making, if he can even be a fraction of what George is.

Nalod
Posts: 56051
Alba Posts: 151
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
1/21/2018  1:18 PM
Josh Jax is struggling, why do we want him?
Potential we can't see. His problems we can't see either. I don't watch PHX.
Fans do this all the time, we just can't see frank in our crystal ball into the future so we like the concept of upside, but with another.
I defer to our coaches not the emotions of fans or beat writhers who lead us on. Most fans hear Clyde and think its their own idea. Most fans read an article and it bends their view.
What do your eyes see? Struggling rookie. what sells papers? Happy stuff or get your ass angry stuff?
Anger sells!
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
martin
Posts: 47604
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
1/21/2018  2:06 PM
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
technomaster
Posts: 22231
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
1/21/2018  2:44 PM
At 19, Mitchell wasn't really on the NBA radar.

2 inches taller, 2 years younger. In the next year or 2, Ntilikina might get a little more explosive (ie build fast twitch muscles) as his body matures & trains with an NBA staff. He already has pretty good court sense and already sees the floor well from a defensive standpoint.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
I know Ntilikina is only 19 but...

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.