BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Dont believe its such a bad idea sending Frank to the G-league with the mandate to work on his offense. Try out things Frank is clearly reluctant to do now.

Was good enough for Hardaway. Timmy credits going to the G-league for helping him right the ship. Nothing wrong with going back to the lab. Frank clearly needs it.

You go either way on this. Don't think it's a problem as long as he continues to get regular minutes. As Nix pointed out, Frank showed steady improvement each month with dribble penetration, aggressiveness etc. Atlanta was a legit playoff team when they sent Tim down. We're on the bubble and don't have nearly as much urgency. Plus, he's needed. A Jack/Burke backcourt leaves you with as bad defense of last year with even less scoring.

Dont believe the rate of Frank's progress is strong enough to rule out the G-league. There are still way too many moments when you see Frank trying to make up his mind about wether or not to shoot, to drive.

G-League would be a good place to get that out his game. It could be a huge boost for Frank's confidence to open up his game on offense. Try things out now he's not yet ready to do in the pros, without having to wait for the offseason.

It is if he's playing at the rate he is now. And again, he's needed. We're talking layup lines without him and he knows the offense. G-League scoring means nothing to me. Frank works hard and he'll improve in the off season. Maybe he'll even play a summer league? I'd rather have him up with the big club.

Frank being aggressive anywhere is important because thats not his MO. We are playing 4 on 5 on offense and other teams are factoring that into their game plan. He is valuable on D, but Frank's overall value to the team will be diminished as long as we have to literally wait weeks for him to get to the line. Its an important part of being a PG.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Dont believe its such a bad idea sending Frank to the G-league with the mandate to work on his offense. Try out things Frank is clearly reluctant to do now.

Was good enough for Hardaway. Timmy credits going to the G-league for helping him right the ship. Nothing wrong with going back to the lab. Frank clearly needs it.

You go either way on this. Don't think it's a problem as long as he continues to get regular minutes. As Nix pointed out, Frank showed steady improvement each month with dribble penetration, aggressiveness etc. Atlanta was a legit playoff team when they sent Tim down. We're on the bubble and don't have nearly as much urgency. Plus, he's needed. A Jack/Burke backcourt leaves you with as bad defense of last year with even less scoring.

Dont believe the rate of Frank's progress is strong enough to rule out the G-league. There are still way too many moments when you see Frank trying to make up his mind about wether or not to shoot, to drive.

G-League would be a good place to get that out his game. It could be a huge boost for Frank's confidence to open up his game on offense. Try things out now he's not yet ready to do in the pros, without having to wait for the offseason.

It is if he's playing at the rate he is now. And again, he's needed. We're talking layup lines without him and he knows the offense. G-League scoring means nothing to me. Frank works hard and he'll improve in the off season. Maybe he'll even play a summer league? I'd rather have him up with the big club.

IF he isn't helping the team win, then he's developing bad habits

Jmpasq wrote:Win or lose he has to play. We aren't making the playoffs and playing these vets does nothing for the future of this team. Frank was brutal last night but playing him 15 minutes isn't helping him develop. If he fails let him fail. He isn't going to figure out anything on the bench. If the Knicks want to hold onto the fallacy of competing for the playoffs till the deadline fine, then swap Frank with Burke and let Frank work out the kinks on the floor in the G-League.

I'm not quite sure that the idea that D/G League games and volume minutes are critical for development.

Jeremy Lin pointed out several things during Linsanity

A) He was able to face better competition which forced him to adapt/grow. Whether the NBA OR the G League is going to do that for Frank N is up to his coaches.

B) He got INDIVIDUAL coaching from Eric Musselman, who was a former NBA coach and a former Warrior head coach, so he had strong ties to the organization when Lin was with GS. Lin pointed out at the NBA level, it's hit or miss if you need some extensive type fundamental coaching. He also cited, as have many players, that Kenny Atkinson was critical to his development. Again, if Frank N can find better coaching like an Atkinson at the NBA level versus the G League level, that's up to the front office and his coaches

C) D/G League games are individual showcases, which limits actual development.

If he's too advanced for the G League right now, and his front office feels he's getting better coaching/mentoring at this level, then so be it.

Volume minutes is not the be all/end all here. It's like saying the only way to be a better/stronger weightlifter is to just keep adding weight to the bar. Yes, that matters. But better form. More reps per set. More or less sets. Rest time between sets adjusted. Tempo reps. Different strategies for rest, recovery and nutrition. The point being, minutes alone is not going to tell the whole story here.

fishmike wrote:Tonight's game was a reminder about what Frank can be and how stupid threads about 6'1 college players are. When he's making mistakes he gets a short lease and you see those 18 minute outings. Then you have games like tonight where he is simply an impact player on both ends.... 10pts, 10assists, 7rebs, 2 blocks, 1 steal, only 2 TOs and shoots 3-6 and Knicks are +17 with Frank in quite frankly a game they desperately needed to win.

Its all part of the process. If you aim high with a 19 year old prospect you have to accept some maturation process no? Kid's an NBA player. Sometimes he's a really good one. Other times he's pretty bad. Thats how this works.

Frank was a terror tonight. He was everywhere. Seeing these types of games at this stage is great. There will be more downs as well and people posting how "now that we know Frank isnt going to a penetrator" or similar fodder... its NY. Tonight was enjoyable. A glimpse into what this prospect is all about.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Tonight's game was a reminder about what Frank can be and how stupid threads about 6'1 college players are. When he's making mistakes he gets a short lease and you see those 18 minute outings. Then you have games like tonight where he is simply an impact player on both ends.... 10pts, 10assists, 7rebs, 2 blocks, 1 steal, only 2 TOs and shoots 3-6 and Knicks are +17 with Frank in quite frankly a game they desperately needed to win.

Its all part of the process. If you aim high with a 19 year old prospect you have to accept some maturation process no? Kid's an NBA player. Sometimes he's a really good one. Other times he's pretty bad. Thats how this works.

Frank was a terror tonight. He was everywhere. Seeing these types of games at this stage is great. There will be more downs as well and people posting how "now that we know Frank isnt going to a penetrator" or similar fodder... its NY. Tonight was enjoyable. A glimpse into what this prospect is all about.

Exactly. I think the organization is handling frank correctly. They arent forcing him into a situation where he needs to play 30-35 minutes yet. Frank has shown great progress and he has also had some bumps in the road like most rookies.

you mean he's a project and not ready to be a starter at overall #8 pick

Cartman718 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Tonight's game was a reminder about what Frank can be and how stupid threads about 6'1 college players are. When he's making mistakes he gets a short lease and you see those 18 minute outings. Then you have games like tonight where he is simply an impact player on both ends.... 10pts, 10assists, 7rebs, 2 blocks, 1 steal, only 2 TOs and shoots 3-6 and Knicks are +17 with Frank in quite frankly a game they desperately needed to win.

Its all part of the process. If you aim high with a 19 year old prospect you have to accept some maturation process no? Kid's an NBA player. Sometimes he's a really good one. Other times he's pretty bad. Thats how this works.

Frank was a terror tonight. He was everywhere. Seeing these types of games at this stage is great. There will be more downs as well and people posting how "now that we know Frank isnt going to a penetrator" or similar fodder... its NY. Tonight was enjoyable. A glimpse into what this prospect is all about.

Exactly. I think the organization is handling frank correctly. They arent forcing him into a situation where he needs to play 30-35 minutes yet. Frank has shown great progress and he has also had some bumps in the road like most rookies.

you mean he's a project and not ready to be a starter at overall #8 pick

Of course he's a project. He's 19 and mostly drafted because of his physical tools and potential. Whats nice is he's shown he can help right away and do somethings. He's growing all the time, but of course he's a project. So far its a great project. Kid could be starting next year or possibly sooner.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:Tonight's game was a reminder about what Frank can be and how stupid threads about 6'1 college players are. When he's making mistakes he gets a short lease and you see those 18 minute outings. Then you have games like tonight where he is simply an impact player on both ends.... 10pts, 10assists, 7rebs, 2 blocks, 1 steal, only 2 TOs and shoots 3-6 and Knicks are +17 with Frank in quite frankly a game they desperately needed to win.

Its all part of the process. If you aim high with a 19 year old prospect you have to accept some maturation process no? Kid's an NBA player. Sometimes he's a really good one. Other times he's pretty bad. Thats how this works.

Frank was a terror tonight. He was everywhere. Seeing these types of games at this stage is great. There will be more downs as well and people posting how "now that we know Frank isnt going to a penetrator" or similar fodder... its NY. Tonight was enjoyable. A glimpse into what this prospect is all about.

Frank needed something to stop him from being complacent. He knew his competition was an aging vet and a PG who shot the ball less than he did. As soon as Frank saw some real competition, what happened? First double-double of his career. His most aggressive play of the season. Same for Baker.

What I heard from some was that Frank didnt need any motivation. Clearly this was not the case.

Reading too much into it. Some of Frank's most effective games have been against the Nets. Maybe it was the competition, but it is more likely that Frank is gaining a comfort level with the league.

Baloney. Frank's first time on the floor yesterday looked like the others as of late, started coughing up the ball, so Hornacek pulled him for Burke. Burke comes in and does the things Frank hasn't been.

First time back on the floor, Frank takes it strong to the rim, like we havent seen yet. Is much more aggressive. Has the best game of his career. No way you can convince me that Burke just happened to be there. First player with a real chance to eat into his minutes.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:Tonight's game was a reminder about what Frank can be and how stupid threads about 6'1 college players are. When he's making mistakes he gets a short lease and you see those 18 minute outings. Then you have games like tonight where he is simply an impact player on both ends.... 10pts, 10assists, 7rebs, 2 blocks, 1 steal, only 2 TOs and shoots 3-6 and Knicks are +17 with Frank in quite frankly a game they desperately needed to win.

Its all part of the process. If you aim high with a 19 year old prospect you have to accept some maturation process no? Kid's an NBA player. Sometimes he's a really good one. Other times he's pretty bad. Thats how this works.

Frank was a terror tonight. He was everywhere. Seeing these types of games at this stage is great. There will be more downs as well and people posting how "now that we know Frank isnt going to a penetrator" or similar fodder... its NY. Tonight was enjoyable. A glimpse into what this prospect is all about.

Frank needed something to stop him from being complacent. He knew his competition was an aging vet and a PG who shot the ball less than he did. As soon as Frank saw some real competition, what happened? First double-double of his career. His most aggressive play of the season. Same for Baker.

What I heard from some was that Frank didnt need any motivation. Clearly this was not the case.

Reading too much into it. Some of Frank's most effective games have been against the Nets. Maybe it was the competition, but it is more likely that Frank is gaining a comfort level with the league.

Baloney. Frank's first time on the floor yesterday looked like the others as of late, started coughing up the ball, so Hornacek pulled him for Burke. Burke comes in and does the things Frank hasn't been.

First time back on the floor, Frank takes it strong to the rim, like we havent seen yet. Is much more aggressive. Has the best game of his career. No way you can convince me that Burke just happened to be there. First player with a real chance to eat into his minutes.

So one practice against Burke made the difference? The majority of Frank's highlights this season will come from the Nets. Our second game against the Nets was one of his most aggressive games shooting. He's probably more comfortable playing against them then any other team. That will increase as he plays more in the league. Gotta wait and watch more games to see if the "Burke" affect is a thing.

Not about practicing against him. Its watching Burke come in and do the things Frank's teammates and coaches have been strongly encouraging him to do on offense all season. Burke showed the all around game on offense that Frank hasnt been showing.

Frank is a smart kid. He saw the writing on the wall. Wether or not Frank continues to stay motivated to attack, to be less deferrential, is a separate issue. As long as Frank is aggressive, isnt turning the ball over as much as he has lately, I dont predict any big changes in minutes for him. Dont believe he needs a high shooting pct.

On the other hand, if Frank goes back to being overly deferential, turning the ball over. Burke could end up getting more PT at Frank's expense. Hope not, would love for this to be a legit step up in his game.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:Tonight's game was a reminder about what Frank can be and how stupid threads about 6'1 college players are. When he's making mistakes he gets a short lease and you see those 18 minute outings. Then you have games like tonight where he is simply an impact player on both ends.... 10pts, 10assists, 7rebs, 2 blocks, 1 steal, only 2 TOs and shoots 3-6 and Knicks are +17 with Frank in quite frankly a game they desperately needed to win.

Its all part of the process. If you aim high with a 19 year old prospect you have to accept some maturation process no? Kid's an NBA player. Sometimes he's a really good one. Other times he's pretty bad. Thats how this works.

Frank was a terror tonight. He was everywhere. Seeing these types of games at this stage is great. There will be more downs as well and people posting how "now that we know Frank isnt going to a penetrator" or similar fodder... its NY. Tonight was enjoyable. A glimpse into what this prospect is all about.

Frank needed something to stop him from being complacent. He knew his competition was an aging vet and a PG who shot the ball less than he did. As soon as Frank saw some real competition, what happened? First double-double of his career. His most aggressive play of the season. Same for Baker.

What I heard from some was that Frank didnt need any motivation. Clearly this was not the case.

Reading too much into it. Some of Frank's most effective games have been against the Nets. Maybe it was the competition, but it is more likely that Frank is gaining a comfort level with the league.

Baloney. Frank's first time on the floor yesterday looked like the others as of late, started coughing up the ball, so Hornacek pulled him for Burke. Burke comes in and does the things Frank hasn't been.

First time back on the floor, Frank takes it strong to the rim, like we havent seen yet. Is much more aggressive. Has the best game of his career. No way you can convince me that Burke just happened to be there. First player with a real chance to eat into his minutes.

So one practice against Burke made the difference? The majority of Frank's highlights this season will come from the Nets. Our second game against the Nets was one of his most aggressive games shooting. He's probably more comfortable playing against them then any other team. That will increase as he plays more in the league. Gotta wait and watch more games to see if the "Burke" affect is a thing.

Not about practicing against him. Its watching Burke come in and do the things Frank's teammates and coaches have been strongly encouraging him to do on offense all season. Burke showed the all around game on offense that Frank hasnt been showing.

Frank is a smart kid. He saw the writing on the wall. Wether or not Frank continues to stay motivated to attack, to be less deferrential, is a separate issue. As long as Frank is aggressive, isnt turning the ball over as much as he has lately, I dont predict any big changes in minutes for him. Dont believe he needs a high shooting pct.

On the other hand, if Frank goes back to being overly deferential, turning the ball over. Burke could end up getting more PT at Frank's expense. Hope not, would love for this to be a legit step up in his game.

Wait and see. Baker didn't have this effect, and I doubt a late season signing did. I think it's like Hornacek said, he'll be better after he goes through the league once. And he has the Nets #.

Baker had his most aggressive game of the season. Took it strong to the rim, was looking to shoot more. He knows the deal as well.

If Frank had been playing well before Burke subbed in, you might have a point. He looked like he has the last few weeks. Too much of a coincidence IMO.

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:Tonight's game was a reminder about what Frank can be and how stupid threads about 6'1 college players are. When he's making mistakes he gets a short lease and you see those 18 minute outings. Then you have games like tonight where he is simply an impact player on both ends.... 10pts, 10assists, 7rebs, 2 blocks, 1 steal, only 2 TOs and shoots 3-6 and Knicks are +17 with Frank in quite frankly a game they desperately needed to win.

Its all part of the process. If you aim high with a 19 year old prospect you have to accept some maturation process no? Kid's an NBA player. Sometimes he's a really good one. Other times he's pretty bad. Thats how this works.

Frank was a terror tonight. He was everywhere. Seeing these types of games at this stage is great. There will be more downs as well and people posting how "now that we know Frank isnt going to a penetrator" or similar fodder... its NY. Tonight was enjoyable. A glimpse into what this prospect is all about.

Frank needed something to stop him from being complacent. He knew his competition was an aging vet and a PG who shot the ball less than he did. As soon as Frank saw some real competition, what happened? First double-double of his career. His most aggressive play of the season. Same for Baker.

What I heard from some was that Frank didnt need any motivation. Clearly this was not the case.

Reading too much into it. Some of Frank's most effective games have been against the Nets. Maybe it was the competition, but it is more likely that Frank is gaining a comfort level with the league.

Baloney. Frank's first time on the floor yesterday looked like the others as of late, started coughing up the ball, so Hornacek pulled him for Burke. Burke comes in and does the things Frank hasn't been.

First time back on the floor, Frank takes it strong to the rim, like we havent seen yet. Is much more aggressive. Has the best game of his career. No way you can convince me that Burke just happened to be there. First player with a real chance to eat into his minutes.

So one practice against Burke made the difference? The majority of Frank's highlights this season will come from the Nets. Our second game against the Nets was one of his most aggressive games shooting. He's probably more comfortable playing against them then any other team. That will increase as he plays more in the league. Gotta wait and watch more games to see if the "Burke" affect is a thing.

Not about practicing against him. Its watching Burke come in and do the things Frank's teammates and coaches have been strongly encouraging him to do on offense all season. Burke showed the all around game on offense that Frank hasnt been showing.

Frank is a smart kid. He saw the writing on the wall. Wether or not Frank continues to stay motivated to attack, to be less deferrential, is a separate issue. As long as Frank is aggressive, isnt turning the ball over as much as he has lately, I dont predict any big changes in minutes for him. Dont believe he needs a high shooting pct.

On the other hand, if Frank goes back to being overly deferential, turning the ball over. Burke could end up getting more PT at Frank's expense. Hope not, would love for this to be a legit step up in his game.

While you make a good case. I agree with some but not all of it. Frank has had his mins pulled plenty of times during the season for poor play. Wasn't like he was getting big mins regardless of play. When he was playing well he was getting all of the 4th quarter mins. And when he isn't he get pulled early 4th sometimes late 3rd. Burke is also way more of a threat to Jack and Baker then Frank. Jack and Trey can only really line up as PGs. Frank will find mins at Pg, Sg, or Sf if Burke is coming on. As he is the Knicks lotto pick after all and they will put more effort to find mins for him then other players. As long as he is contributing in some capacity.

Frank did pass up on many 3s as defenses sagged off him. He finally took one late in the game off a quick decision pull up jumper. He needs to be confident to take those all game when they give him all that space. Those hard takes to the basket were welcome as well.

Thing I don't get though is if Jeff is pushing him to be more aggressive offensively and is willing to pull mins away from him for not doing so. This issue should have been cleaned up a long time ago. Something just doesn't add up. As if the message wasnt clear. Like why would he hesitate to take those shots if the coach is going to pull his mins for not taking them? What downside was he/is concerned with?

I assume he’s trying to find a balance between aggression and running plays, as he should.