[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Ball Movement decreased mostly b/c of Porzingis
Author Thread
jskinny35
Posts: 20220
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/27/2005
Member: #928
USA
1/11/2018  8:13 PM
I hear some talk about Hornacek doing a worse job then last year - I think we moved the ball early in the year and now KP is tired so our movement is down. We run most of our offense through him and he just stands at the high post trying to establish position against the other teams 2 or 3... we need to get away from that flow, particularly b/c KP is having a tough time maintaining his position. This extra time it takes him to hold his position against these smaller players slows everything down... Lee, McDermott, Frank all cut/move. Jack, Beasley and O'Quinn don't move as much to begin with, but you can't have this with your primary player - it affects the overall flow. KP doesn't iso like Melo (we have Beas to do that), but I wouldn't keep feeding him if he can't establish his own position first.
AUTOADVERT
GoNyGoNyGo
Posts: 23144
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/29/2003
Member: #411
USA
1/12/2018  12:51 PM
I think you are right. THe ball moves and players cut until the game gets tight. Thats when it seems NY tries to force the ball to KP. Which, as you point out, it takes him time to get position. He is still being pushed out and he is not in position to actually recieve the ball.

I also see that he gets annoyed when the passer goes with another option. Rather than cutting and trying to get into the play he sulks and moves further out.

Not a good sign for him...just saying.


I also do not understand how smaller players guard him better than taller players. I wonder if there is a stat with his FG% vs defender size.

Yet another mistake by Dolan. When will it end?
Vmart
Posts: 30796
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/23/2002
Member: #247
USA
1/12/2018  1:13 PM
I said this earlier in the Knicks are becoming isolation heavy team. They are misusing KP KP can post once in a while but most of his good stuff comes when he is moving without the ball. Or spotting up for jumpers without putting it in the floor. When KP puts the ball in the floor to create a shot for himself it’s guaranteed he is going to miss or lose the ball. He doesn’t pass well and he simply doesn’t see the doubles coming as he dribbles while looking down. Posting up when they least expect is ok for KP but if they know it’s coming he doesn’t farewell.

KP moving towards the basket yields easy buckets and I have no problem with KP shooting threes. It’s really sad to watch how Jeff has mismanaged KP in such a short period of time. He has gone from being very good player to a volume shooter in span of 20 games.

I mention if Luke Walton becomes available he would be an excellent pick up for the Knicks because he is more in tune to today’s NBA. What the Knicks are running is throw back 90s game and it won’t be successful in today’s NBA unless KP becomes a post passer in the mold of LeBron or KD. The Thunder have found success because they told Melo to put that shyt for game away. And here we have KP doing a Melo dance. KP is a face the basket player he needs to see the floor, when he is posting up he hasn’t a clue where everyone is. Post up is a once in awhile game.

fishmike
Posts: 48918
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
1/12/2018  1:17 PM
1) people dont realize what a good ball mover THjr was. He's got the most assist per game of any non PG
2) KP needs to post up and iso less and take more jumpers. The true value of KP and where his dominance will come is on defense. More trailing 3s. More quick turnaround jumpers from the elbow and fewer post ups. He also simply needs to pass more.

KP's half a season into being the leading scorer and focal point on offense. Its tough to judge now as THjr was easily our 2nd best player, playing great BB and missing him has really hurt the flow.

No excuses... KP needs to make adjustments as well. This is part of his maturation process.

fishmike
Posts: 48918
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
1/12/2018  1:18 PM
Vmart wrote:I said this earlier in the Knicks are becoming isolation heavy team. They are misusing KP KP can post once in a while but most of his good stuff comes when he is moving without the ball. Or spotting up for jumpers without putting it in the floor. When KP puts the ball in the floor to create a shot for himself it’s guaranteed he is going to miss or lose the ball. He doesn’t pass well and he simply doesn’t see the doubles coming as he dribbles while looking down. Posting up when they least expect is ok for KP but if they know it’s coming he doesn’t farewell.

KP moving towards the basket yields easy buckets and I have no problem with KP shooting threes. It’s really sad to watch how Jeff has mismanaged KP in such a short period of time. He has gone from being very good player to a volume shooter in span of 20 games.

I mention if Luke Walton becomes available he would be an excellent pick up for the Knicks because he is more in tune to today’s NBA. What the Knicks are running is throw back 90s game and it won’t be successful in today’s NBA unless KP becomes a post passer in the mold of LeBron or KD. The Thunder have found success because they told Melo to put that shyt for game away. And here we have KP doing a Melo dance. KP is a face the basket player he needs to see the floor, when he is posting up he hasn’t a clue where everyone is. Post up is a once in awhile game.

The bold.. no acknowledgement of what's different between the first 20 and the last 20 games? Really? Do you watch man?
Nalod
Posts: 56417
Alba Posts: 151
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
1/12/2018  1:19 PM
I think KP is doing too much at games end but I see it as part of the learning curve. Seems that prior THjr would have the ball (who is also having to learn how to finish and ID double teams, ets) and KP would be an option.
That alone created space for Dougie and Clee to do what they do best.
This is why Beas is now playing as he is.
Is it permanent? Need we trade and change react to what is happening? No doubt we need more creation.
But Im not thinking we do in our future to save this season. Nalod thinking bigger.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
fishmike
Posts: 48918
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
1/12/2018  1:29 PM
https://nypost.com/2018/01/12/why-knicks-think-hardaway-can-spark-a-porzingis-revival/

Walton! SMH!

Vmart
Posts: 30796
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/23/2002
Member: #247
USA
1/12/2018  2:26 PM
fishmike wrote:
Vmart wrote:I said this earlier in the Knicks are becoming isolation heavy team. They are misusing KP KP can post once in a while but most of his good stuff comes when he is moving without the ball. Or spotting up for jumpers without putting it in the floor. When KP puts the ball in the floor to create a shot for himself it’s guaranteed he is going to miss or lose the ball. He doesn’t pass well and he simply doesn’t see the doubles coming as he dribbles while looking down. Posting up when they least expect is ok for KP but if they know it’s coming he doesn’t farewell.

KP moving towards the basket yields easy buckets and I have no problem with KP shooting threes. It’s really sad to watch how Jeff has mismanaged KP in such a short period of time. He has gone from being very good player to a volume shooter in span of 20 games.

I mention if Luke Walton becomes available he would be an excellent pick up for the Knicks because he is more in tune to today’s NBA. What the Knicks are running is throw back 90s game and it won’t be successful in today’s NBA unless KP becomes a post passer in the mold of LeBron or KD. The Thunder have found success because they told Melo to put that shyt for game away. And here we have KP doing a Melo dance. KP is a face the basket player he needs to see the floor, when he is posting up he hasn’t a clue where everyone is. Post up is a once in awhile game.

The bold.. no acknowledgement of what's different between the first 20 and the last 20 games? Really? Do you watch man?

I watch. I’m not saying negative things about KP. I know KP sensitivity is very high on this board. I’m a KP well wisher and I want success for him. I happen to think KP is a victim here because he is taking unnecessary punishment in the post that isn’t his strength especially coming off a knee scare and ankle injury and nagging elbow injury. I want KP to be put in a position where has to deal with the least amount of contact.

You have a kid who struggles in a subject at school as a parent you can ignore it and think he will work through it and pick it up, or you say I’m gonna help him out a little and prep him up for the next test that’s what most parent do right. Well KP is in that situation right now he is the kid struggling in a subject and it’s up to Jeff to work with him and put him in a position to succeed. Jeff is basically ignoring the problem.

You got to be a little bit concerned too, because continental inefficiency has a way of messing with a players mind and confidence. You know it’s getting in his head because now he is missing crucial free throws.

Fish, I watch.

fishmike
Posts: 48918
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
1/12/2018  2:35 PM
Vmart wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Vmart wrote:I said this earlier in the Knicks are becoming isolation heavy team. They are misusing KP KP can post once in a while but most of his good stuff comes when he is moving without the ball. Or spotting up for jumpers without putting it in the floor. When KP puts the ball in the floor to create a shot for himself it’s guaranteed he is going to miss or lose the ball. He doesn’t pass well and he simply doesn’t see the doubles coming as he dribbles while looking down. Posting up when they least expect is ok for KP but if they know it’s coming he doesn’t farewell.

KP moving towards the basket yields easy buckets and I have no problem with KP shooting threes. It’s really sad to watch how Jeff has mismanaged KP in such a short period of time. He has gone from being very good player to a volume shooter in span of 20 games.

I mention if Luke Walton becomes available he would be an excellent pick up for the Knicks because he is more in tune to today’s NBA. What the Knicks are running is throw back 90s game and it won’t be successful in today’s NBA unless KP becomes a post passer in the mold of LeBron or KD. The Thunder have found success because they told Melo to put that shyt for game away. And here we have KP doing a Melo dance. KP is a face the basket player he needs to see the floor, when he is posting up he hasn’t a clue where everyone is. Post up is a once in awhile game.

The bold.. no acknowledgement of what's different between the first 20 and the last 20 games? Really? Do you watch man?

I watch. I’m not saying negative things about KP. I know KP sensitivity is very high on this board. I’m a KP well wisher and I want success for him. I happen to think KP is a victim here because he is taking unnecessary punishment in the post that isn’t his strength especially coming off a knee scare and ankle injury and nagging elbow injury. I want KP to be put in a position where has to deal with the least amount of contact.

You have a kid who struggles in a subject at school as a parent you can ignore it and think he will work through it and pick it up, or you say I’m gonna help him out a little and prep him up for the next test that’s what most parent do right. Well KP is in that situation right now he is the kid struggling in a subject and it’s up to Jeff to work with him and put him in a position to succeed. Jeff is basically ignoring the problem.

You got to be a little bit concerned too, because continental inefficiency has a way of messing with a players mind and confidence. You know it’s getting in his head because now he is missing crucial free throws.

Fish, I watch.

How you get to these conclusions strikes me as beyond reaching. Somehow Jeff's poor coaching of him is causing him to miss FTs? What have they done to put KP in a position to succeed?
Have they surrounded him with veteran players? Curbed his minutes? Held him out of b2b when he was banged up? Your not watching because KP get babied here. How does the coach "put him in a position to succeed" if he's not challenged? Seems like KP was in a position just fine, then the 2nd best player on the team got hurt. Others have tried to pick up slack but that has hurt above and beyond all else.

You are trying to read the tea leaves when you all you have to do is look in front of you.

Knicks are playing defense. Knick's rotation is a balance of youth and vets. Most of the rotation are having up years and doing things most didnt expect starting with good defense from THjr, McD and Kanter. All these guys have been better than advertised. Frank is getting valueable minutes while helping and KP is taking the next step and will be an all star this year. Fire the coach! Dude... I just dont get it. Sorry. Everything about this team is trending up. Walton! Can Lavar come also

nixluva
Posts: 56240
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
1/12/2018  2:45 PM
fishmike wrote:
Vmart wrote:I said this earlier in the Knicks are becoming isolation heavy team. They are misusing KP KP can post once in a while but most of his good stuff comes when he is moving without the ball. Or spotting up for jumpers without putting it in the floor. When KP puts the ball in the floor to create a shot for himself it’s guaranteed he is going to miss or lose the ball. He doesn’t pass well and he simply doesn’t see the doubles coming as he dribbles while looking down. Posting up when they least expect is ok for KP but if they know it’s coming he doesn’t farewell.

KP moving towards the basket yields easy buckets and I have no problem with KP shooting threes. It’s really sad to watch how Jeff has mismanaged KP in such a short period of time. He has gone from being very good player to a volume shooter in span of 20 games.

I mention if Luke Walton becomes available he would be an excellent pick up for the Knicks because he is more in tune to today’s NBA. What the Knicks are running is throw back 90s game and it won’t be successful in today’s NBA unless KP becomes a post passer in the mold of LeBron or KD. The Thunder have found success because they told Melo to put that shyt for game away. And here we have KP doing a Melo dance. KP is a face the basket player he needs to see the floor, when he is posting up he hasn’t a clue where everyone is. Post up is a once in awhile game.

The bold.. no acknowledgement of what's different between the first 20 and the last 20 games? Really? Do you watch man?

Also i've been reading a lot of Knicks fans saying that Jeff isn't coaching modern ball as if he has no idea what that is. The guy came here known for Uptempo Attacking offense. Kerr said he used Jeff as a model for how he wanted to coach and said he even stole some plays. Jeff knows how to play modern ball.

PLAYERS matter. This roster is not setup for a lot of modern ball offense. We don't have a Dragic, Isaiah Thomas or Bledsoe at PG like Jeff had in Phoenix. Things got worse once THJ went down. The offense can open again with THJ and hopefully Burke can add something.

Ball Movement decreased mostly b/c of Porzingis

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.