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KP and Nitty Elite Defenders
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nixluva
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1/1/2018  4:07 PM
This Twitter thread has some nice defensive stats showing how high up our guys are!


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Gudris
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1/1/2018  4:13 PM
This is good news, Frank needs to start soon
EnySpree
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1/1/2018  4:47 PM
Gudris wrote:This is good news, Frank needs to start soon

He can't start until he stops being a liability on offense. He's getting better at it though just not quite there

You know why I'm here....
martin
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1/1/2018  5:01 PM
Good sign from Knicks, one of the best statistical defenders in the league in KP and one of the top 10 on the perimeter.

Defense at C and PG if KP fills out. Incredible. And both have scoring ability all the way out to 3PT line. Both 22 and younger.

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2018/01/01/draymond-has-been-the-nbas-best-defender/

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fishmike
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1/1/2018  5:09 PM
martin wrote:Good sign from Knicks, one of the best statistical defenders in the league in KP and one of the top 10 on the perimeter.

Defense at C and PG if KP fills out. Incredible. And both have scoring ability all the way out to 3PT line. Both 22 and younger.

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2018/01/01/draymond-has-been-the-nbas-best-defender/

22 and 19 years old. Ive been saying... we can build a defense around these two. I would take a defensive star with some warts in this draft. Scorers are everywhere. We got Beas cheap. We have Trey Burke who can be a scorer off the bench. McBuckets. Jack is a good veteran offensive player. I think its easy to fill these roles if you have 3-4 elite defenders out there like Detroit had on those teams.
BigDaddyG
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1/1/2018  5:17 PM
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:Good sign from Knicks, one of the best statistical defenders in the league in KP and one of the top 10 on the perimeter.

Defense at C and PG if KP fills out. Incredible. And both have scoring ability all the way out to 3PT line. Both 22 and younger.

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2018/01/01/draymond-has-been-the-nbas-best-defender/

22 and 19 years old. Ive been saying... we can build a defense around these two. I would take a defensive star with some warts in this draft. Scorers are everywhere. We got Beas cheap. We have Trey Burke who can be a scorer off the bench. McBuckets. Jack is a good veteran offensive player. I think its easy to fill these roles if you have 3-4 elite defenders out there like Detroit had on those teams.

I believe you can carry two sub par defensive starters if the other 3 are competent, especially at center and PG. We've already won half the battle as far i'm concerned. While KP is not "5" right now, he's improving as a help defender and continues to provide quality shotblocking. Just need that one good two-way forward to fill in the gaps.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
nixluva
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1/1/2018  5:43 PM
This is why you draft a kid like Frank. Strong D at the point of attack with a legit rim protector behind him. Long term the Knicks need a quality defensive SF who can score. We’ve got Dotson in the pipeline at SG. I’d love an athletic PF with rim protection ability.
Jmpasq
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1/1/2018  5:46 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:Good sign from Knicks, one of the best statistical defenders in the league in KP and one of the top 10 on the perimeter.

Defense at C and PG if KP fills out. Incredible. And both have scoring ability all the way out to 3PT line. Both 22 and younger.

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2018/01/01/draymond-has-been-the-nbas-best-defender/

22 and 19 years old. Ive been saying... we can build a defense around these two. I would take a defensive star with some warts in this draft. Scorers are everywhere. We got Beas cheap. We have Trey Burke who can be a scorer off the bench. McBuckets. Jack is a good veteran offensive player. I think its easy to fill these roles if you have 3-4 elite defenders out there like Detroit had on those teams.

I believe you can carry two sub par defensive starters if the other 3 are competent, especially at center and PG. We've already won half the battle as far i'm concerned. While KP is not "5" right now, he's improving as a help defender and continues to provide quality shotblocking. Just need that one good two-way forward to fill in the gaps.

The 2 way All Star SF is the missing piece. We will pick somewhere between 11-16, can we find that guy there? Hopefully, this draft actually has a few nice forwards in that range

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
nixluva
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1/1/2018  5:47 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:Good sign from Knicks, one of the best statistical defenders in the league in KP and one of the top 10 on the perimeter.

Defense at C and PG if KP fills out. Incredible. And both have scoring ability all the way out to 3PT line. Both 22 and younger.

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2018/01/01/draymond-has-been-the-nbas-best-defender/

22 and 19 years old. Ive been saying... we can build a defense around these two. I would take a defensive star with some warts in this draft. Scorers are everywhere. We got Beas cheap. We have Trey Burke who can be a scorer off the bench. McBuckets. Jack is a good veteran offensive player. I think its easy to fill these roles if you have 3-4 elite defenders out there like Detroit had on those teams.

I believe you can carry two sub par defensive starters if the other 3 are competent, especially at center and PG. We've already won half the battle as far i'm concerned. While KP is not "5" right now, he's improving as a help defender and continues to provide quality shotblocking. Just need that one good two-way forward to fill in the gaps.

The 2 way All Star SF is the missing piece. We will pick somewhere between 11-16, can we find that guy there? Hopefully, this draft actually has a few nice forwards in that range

TOTALLY AGREE.

TripleThreat
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1/1/2018  6:37 PM
EnySpree wrote:
Gudris wrote:This is good news, Frank needs to start soon

He can't start until he stops being a liability on offense. He's getting better at it though just not quite there


Rookie players are not used to this level of competition, amount of travel, number of games, number of commitments related to the NBA but not games/practice. They need to be paced out across their first season. If a team does not, it could damage their long term development, or burn them out too fast and you expose them to injury risk.

I keep seeing posts talking about throwing Ntilikina and Dotson into the fire more. They are rookies. Burdening them with unrealistic expectations will just stunt their professional growth.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
awe1028
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1/1/2018  7:24 PM
This is not at all surprising to me. I have been saying it all along: the Knicks are an elite defensive team again witness the performance against Toronto earlier in the year (and they have had other impressive defensive displays though not as impressive as the one against Toronto)With the way the Knicks play defense the addition of a legitimate 2 way small forward will make them a real problem going forward. In fact I would say the additional of said 2 way SF will immediately make them a championship caliber threat.

Most championship caliber teams are built on great to elite offenses with solid to good defenses. With Frank and KP already playing their elite level defense the Knicks have to flip the script. They have to continue building the defense so they have a great to elite defense as the calling card even if the offense is not elite. This will make them unique in today's NBA as teams for the most part no longer play defense and will be the key to their championship hopes.

This is why I want the Knicks target Mikal Bridges who at this point seems to be the best 2 way small forward in the country with defense the elite part of his 2 way play. This would give the Knicks a STIFLING level of defense - again defense being the key to their championship hopes. The good news is that in most mock drafts Bridges is projected to be in the 10 - 14 range which is probably where the Knicks will pick if they do make the lottery.

Ira
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1/1/2018  7:41 PM
I think the Knicks are doing a good job of bringing Frank along at the pace he needs.
nyknickzingis
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1/2/2018  9:07 AM
I really would love to see Noah, KP and Frank in one lineup. The lineup that I really want to see is Noah, KP, Thomas or Lee, Hardaway and Frank. Talk about defense.... and on the other end with KP THj there would be players that can score.
Nalod
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1/2/2018  10:02 AM
There is no bad situation to a healthy Noah able to sustain his play and court time!
Either on the court elevating the play of others or as a trade asset with some value.
Even if enough to warrant a salary dump with out us having to GIVE UP an asset to move him!
Few centers can rebound, turn and lead a fast break off the dribble!!
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Knixkik
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1/2/2018  11:06 AM
nixluva wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:Good sign from Knicks, one of the best statistical defenders in the league in KP and one of the top 10 on the perimeter.

Defense at C and PG if KP fills out. Incredible. And both have scoring ability all the way out to 3PT line. Both 22 and younger.

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2018/01/01/draymond-has-been-the-nbas-best-defender/

22 and 19 years old. Ive been saying... we can build a defense around these two. I would take a defensive star with some warts in this draft. Scorers are everywhere. We got Beas cheap. We have Trey Burke who can be a scorer off the bench. McBuckets. Jack is a good veteran offensive player. I think its easy to fill these roles if you have 3-4 elite defenders out there like Detroit had on those teams.

I believe you can carry two sub par defensive starters if the other 3 are competent, especially at center and PG. We've already won half the battle as far i'm concerned. While KP is not "5" right now, he's improving as a help defender and continues to provide quality shotblocking. Just need that one good two-way forward to fill in the gaps.

The 2 way All Star SF is the missing piece. We will pick somewhere between 11-16, can we find that guy there? Hopefully, this draft actually has a few nice forwards in that range

TOTALLY AGREE.

Absolutely. Frank and KP are the foundation and with their 2-way ability they will anchor the defense. Hardaway provides the playmaking and shot creating ability that Frank lacks. Kanter provides extra offense and the toughness downlow. We should never have an issue on either side of the ball. Plenty of firepower here. Just need that missing SF who can bring it all together and build up the bench some more.

martin
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1/2/2018  11:23 AM
Knixkik wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:Good sign from Knicks, one of the best statistical defenders in the league in KP and one of the top 10 on the perimeter.

Defense at C and PG if KP fills out. Incredible. And both have scoring ability all the way out to 3PT line. Both 22 and younger.

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2018/01/01/draymond-has-been-the-nbas-best-defender/

22 and 19 years old. Ive been saying... we can build a defense around these two. I would take a defensive star with some warts in this draft. Scorers are everywhere. We got Beas cheap. We have Trey Burke who can be a scorer off the bench. McBuckets. Jack is a good veteran offensive player. I think its easy to fill these roles if you have 3-4 elite defenders out there like Detroit had on those teams.

I believe you can carry two sub par defensive starters if the other 3 are competent, especially at center and PG. We've already won half the battle as far i'm concerned. While KP is not "5" right now, he's improving as a help defender and continues to provide quality shotblocking. Just need that one good two-way forward to fill in the gaps.

The 2 way All Star SF is the missing piece. We will pick somewhere between 11-16, can we find that guy there? Hopefully, this draft actually has a few nice forwards in that range

TOTALLY AGREE.

Absolutely. Frank and KP are the foundation and with their 2-way ability they will anchor the defense. Hardaway provides the playmaking and shot creating ability that Frank lacks. Kanter provides extra offense and the toughness downlow. We should never have an issue on either side of the ball. Plenty of firepower here. Just need that missing SF who can bring it all together and build up the bench some more.

With stretch 4's on opposite team, Kanter lacks ANY kind of interior protection when KP needs to watch the 3 point line. Also, his lack of passing and shots outside the rim makes penetration much harder for his teammates.

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fishmike
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1/2/2018  12:04 PM
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:Good sign from Knicks, one of the best statistical defenders in the league in KP and one of the top 10 on the perimeter.

Defense at C and PG if KP fills out. Incredible. And both have scoring ability all the way out to 3PT line. Both 22 and younger.

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2018/01/01/draymond-has-been-the-nbas-best-defender/

22 and 19 years old. Ive been saying... we can build a defense around these two. I would take a defensive star with some warts in this draft. Scorers are everywhere. We got Beas cheap. We have Trey Burke who can be a scorer off the bench. McBuckets. Jack is a good veteran offensive player. I think its easy to fill these roles if you have 3-4 elite defenders out there like Detroit had on those teams.

I believe you can carry two sub par defensive starters if the other 3 are competent, especially at center and PG. We've already won half the battle as far i'm concerned. While KP is not "5" right now, he's improving as a help defender and continues to provide quality shotblocking. Just need that one good two-way forward to fill in the gaps.

The 2 way All Star SF is the missing piece. We will pick somewhere between 11-16, can we find that guy there? Hopefully, this draft actually has a few nice forwards in that range

TOTALLY AGREE.

Absolutely. Frank and KP are the foundation and with their 2-way ability they will anchor the defense. Hardaway provides the playmaking and shot creating ability that Frank lacks. Kanter provides extra offense and the toughness downlow. We should never have an issue on either side of the ball. Plenty of firepower here. Just need that missing SF who can bring it all together and build up the bench some more.

With stretch 4's on opposite team, Kanter lacks ANY kind of interior protection when KP needs to watch the 3 point line. Also, his lack of passing and shots outside the rim makes penetration much harder for his teammates.

Agree but if your 3 perimeter players are Frank/Lee/THjr (which is what I think we finish the 2nd half of the year with) Kanter works because those guys are at the very least excellent and keeping their man in front of them.

The two young centers on our team are 25 and 22. Both are excellent rebounders, big bodies and below average defenders. Another high end defensive wing could solidify that defense even more. If Kanter doesnt have to help (much) and he's mostly setting picks, crashing boards and scoring int the paint he's gonna look REALLY good, which he has for stretches. The defense around him is key. Willy also.

HofstraBBall
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1/2/2018  12:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/2/2018  12:18 PM
nixluva wrote:This Twitter thread has some nice defensive stats showing how high up our guys are!


Sorry....but BassketballAnalyticsbook.com??? Let's try a lesser known site...NBA.com

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/

Eye test.. Frank is a very good perimeter defender. KP is a very good help defender. But lets not pretend that KP does not get abused from outside, when looking to help and that he does not get pushed like a rag doll inside. He has much to improve but think he will. It's also good to see defensive players on the team for a change. Problem for Frank will be that, against good teams, it will be tough for JH to keep such an offensive liability in the game. We need POP like coaching, if he passes up a wide open shot, he gets taken out of game. Its not like he has a bad shot. It just seems like he is afraid to shoot. Is that something you can change in a 19 year old? Time will tell.

fishmike Posts: 48006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA 6/23/2016 12:35 PM fishmike worte" The dream? Would be Pg Rose SG GPII SF Durant PF Melo C Noah Bench: KP, Langston, KOQ, Clyde Frazier
martin
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1/2/2018  12:32 PM
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:Good sign from Knicks, one of the best statistical defenders in the league in KP and one of the top 10 on the perimeter.

Defense at C and PG if KP fills out. Incredible. And both have scoring ability all the way out to 3PT line. Both 22 and younger.

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2018/01/01/draymond-has-been-the-nbas-best-defender/

22 and 19 years old. Ive been saying... we can build a defense around these two. I would take a defensive star with some warts in this draft. Scorers are everywhere. We got Beas cheap. We have Trey Burke who can be a scorer off the bench. McBuckets. Jack is a good veteran offensive player. I think its easy to fill these roles if you have 3-4 elite defenders out there like Detroit had on those teams.

I believe you can carry two sub par defensive starters if the other 3 are competent, especially at center and PG. We've already won half the battle as far i'm concerned. While KP is not "5" right now, he's improving as a help defender and continues to provide quality shotblocking. Just need that one good two-way forward to fill in the gaps.

The 2 way All Star SF is the missing piece. We will pick somewhere between 11-16, can we find that guy there? Hopefully, this draft actually has a few nice forwards in that range

TOTALLY AGREE.

Absolutely. Frank and KP are the foundation and with their 2-way ability they will anchor the defense. Hardaway provides the playmaking and shot creating ability that Frank lacks. Kanter provides extra offense and the toughness downlow. We should never have an issue on either side of the ball. Plenty of firepower here. Just need that missing SF who can bring it all together and build up the bench some more.

With stretch 4's on opposite team, Kanter lacks ANY kind of interior protection when KP needs to watch the 3 point line. Also, his lack of passing and shots outside the rim makes penetration much harder for his teammates.

Agree but if your 3 perimeter players are Frank/Lee/THjr (which is what I think we finish the 2nd half of the year with) Kanter works because those guys are at the very least excellent and keeping their man in front of them.

The two young centers on our team are 25 and 22. Both are excellent rebounders, big bodies and below average defenders. Another high end defensive wing could solidify that defense even more. If Kanter doesnt have to help (much) and he's mostly setting picks, crashing boards and scoring int the paint he's gonna look REALLY good, which he has for stretches. The defense around him is key. Willy also.

For me Kanter is a good stepping stone big next to KP but not long term C the Knicks need to get deep into playoffs. Just don't see that path for him

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martin
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1/2/2018  12:35 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
nixluva wrote:This Twitter thread has some nice defensive stats showing how high up our guys are!


Sorry....but BassketballAnalyticsbook.com??? Let's try a lesser known site...NBA.com

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/

Eye test.. Frank is a very good perimeter defender. KP is a very good help defender. But lets not pretend that KP does not get abused from outside, when looking to help and that he does not get pushed like a rag doll inside. He has much to improve but think he will. It's also good to see defensive players on the team for a change. Problem for Frank will be that, against good teams, it will be tough for JH to keep such an offensive liability in the game. We need POP like coaching, if he passes up a wide open shot, he gets taken out of game. Its not like he has a bad shot. It just seems like he is afraid to shoot. Is that something you can change in a 19 year old? Time will tell.

Don't know how Defensive win shares is calculated but Melo is above KP, Dwight Howard and a lot of other players that I wouldn't expect. Also, THJr and JJ Redick are hovering in that same ranking and that seems WAAAAYYYY off.

Just like PER, DWS is not straight forward

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