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How can this dude drop so low--dont get it?
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BRIGGS
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12/26/2017  5:08 PM

Looks like a lottery pick

AUTOADVERT
Gudris
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12/26/2017  5:15 PM
Defense
EnySpree
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12/26/2017  5:36 PM
Its all on Willy. I haven't seen that floater or a drop step from him all year. His picks aren't as good, he isn't running the floor. I think the dude expected preferential treatment and got let down. He's had plenty of chances to show he could play and he was terrible. Sucks for him. I'm really over talking about the guy. He needs a another team....
You know why I'm here....
nyknickzingis
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12/26/2017  5:44 PM
Think he is a valued player around the league based on last season.
However the Knicks are in win now mode and they can't mortgage wins for the sake of player development. It's for this reason Frank does not start and same reason we see vets starting and getting big minutes.

If we were re-building, Willy, Frank and KP would be starting.
However also maybe if we're later in the season and out of the playoffs, we'll begin to shift towards that, give Willy and Frank more chances.

I personally would have brought Kanter off the bench, start Willy, and started Frank too. I think the three of them need that reps and playing time together (third being KP obviously). If for nothing else, you would see what you really have. Willy certainly won't be getting better sitting on the bench. He needs those reps. He needs playing time. He needs live action to learn the game.

I rather have started Willy, Frank and KP together, won 30 games, than to do what we're doing which is making a run for the playoffs, using vets and likely finishing 9 or 10 and just missing out. Those 10 extra losses would mean player development for Frank and Willy and also give the Knicks a better position in the draft.

What's the plan with Jack, Kanter and O'Quinn anyway? Say we finish the season with 41 wins. All three of them are going to command a big pay increase, and we should not be interested in paying any of them more than what they currently make. So maybe all 3 walk, and you've wasted a season on being 10 wins better with vets that likely leave.

I mean get it, tanking is bad for culture. But we wouldn't be tanking in playing Willy and Frank more minutes. We'd be doing player development and our backups would be quality NBA players like Kanter. There was alot of talk about Kanter being good for Porzingis, but we've seen Porzingis regress even with Kanter playing great. This is all on Porzingis. Porzingis can play like a MVP if he's healthy and he can be much worse if he's unhealthy.

Definitely not happy about Frank;s minutes/role and Willy's. I envisioned the two of them and KP starting this year. Perhaps if we're out of the playoff 8 in March, we do the right thing then.

BRIGGS
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12/26/2017  5:45 PM
Gudris wrote:Defense

Same thing said about Kanter

nyknickzingis
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12/26/2017  5:50 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
Gudris wrote:Defense

Same thing said about Kanter


Kanter is definitely better than Willy at setting picks, defending his man (no way Willy defends Embiid like that) and rebounds. He's a physical tough player. He gives the team an identity they have picked up on. He's 26. I don't mind it all that much that he starts, but worries me is we're setting him up for a huge deal and we don't want to be the team with Enes Kanter as your 25 million a year man.

What really bothers me is O'Quinn getting PT over Willy all season.
Also Jack getting so many minutes over Frank.

Jack was not even in the league last year. He won't be a starter next year. We need to develop Frank. And Willy at worst, should be our backup over O'Quinn.

knickscity
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12/26/2017  7:23 PM
Willy should be in the D league.
knicks1248
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12/26/2017  7:56 PM
he was really bad last yr to, I said so all summer long, his defense was brutal, and he's one of the softest big man in the league, that dude shy's away from contact like the plague, and is hella lazy. It all came to light when KOQ and Kanter just flat out played exposed him
ES
CrushAlot
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12/26/2017  8:20 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:Think he is a valued player around the league based on last season.
However the Knicks are in win now mode and they can't mortgage wins for the sake of player development. It's for this reason Frank does not start and same reason we see vets starting and getting big minutes.

If we were re-building, Willy, Frank and KP would be starting.
However also maybe if we're later in the season and out of the playoffs, we'll begin to shift towards that, give Willy and Frank more chances.

I personally would have brought Kanter off the bench, start Willy, and started Frank too. I think the three of them need that reps and playing time together (third being KP obviously). If for nothing else, you would see what you really have. Willy certainly won't be getting better sitting on the bench. He needs those reps. He needs playing time. He needs live action to learn the game.

I rather have started Willy, Frank and KP together, won 30 games, than to do what we're doing which is making a run for the playoffs, using vets and likely finishing 9 or 10 and just missing out. Those 10 extra losses would mean player development for Frank and Willy and also give the Knicks a better position in the draft.

What's the plan with Jack, Kanter and O'Quinn anyway? Say we finish the season with 41 wins. All three of them are going to command a big pay increase, and we should not be interested in paying any of them more than what they currently make. So maybe all 3 walk, and you've wasted a season on being 10 wins better with vets that likely leave.

I mean get it, tanking is bad for culture. But we wouldn't be tanking in playing Willy and Frank more minutes. We'd be doing player development and our backups would be quality NBA players like Kanter. There was alot of talk about Kanter being good for Porzingis, but we've seen Porzingis regress even with Kanter playing great. This is all on Porzingis. Porzingis can play like a MVP if he's healthy and he can be much worse if he's unhealthy.

Definitely not happy about Frank;s minutes/role and Willy's. I envisioned the two of them and KP starting this year. Perhaps if we're out of the playoff 8 in March, we do the right thing then.

I am not sure what is happening in practice but Willy is the 4th string center. He definitely isn't earning his minutes and hasn't looked that great when he has gotten them. Kanter has been awesome and KP is much more effective with a Kanter/Lopez type at center. It seems a bit funny the day after a guy gets 30 and 20 to say you would have him coming off of the bench. I think the Knicks see Kanter as a part of their young core and they will resign him. I do think there is a chance O'Quinn is moved at the deadline. The KNicks also could let him walk. He is a good player and brings a lot to the team but with Noah's deal on the books something has to give at the 5 spot. In regards to Frank, Hornacek has received a lot of compliments for how he is bringing him a long so far. I think he is doing the right thing with him. I wish the Knicks had a point guard that put pressure on the defense and made things easier on offense for the rest of the team but neither Jack or Frank are that type of player. Hopefully Hardaway is back soon because the weakness at the point is much more obvious when he is out.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
ekstarks94
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12/26/2017  8:47 PM
EnySpree wrote:Its all on Willy. I haven't seen that floater or a drop step from him all year. His picks aren't as good, he isn't running the floor. I think the dude expected preferential treatment and got let down. He's had plenty of chances to show he could play and he was terrible. Sucks for him. I'm really over talking about the guy. He needs a another team....

His confidence is shot to hell...he is being held accountable for other aspects of his game...his role is not as a complimentary scorer on the the low block...he is defense on the second unit and clog the lane....he can rebound close to Kanter's level...but he does not have that physical presence that Kanter employs...without Kanter our front line would be vanilla...

Paris907
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12/26/2017  8:48 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:Think he is a valued player around the league based on last season.
However the Knicks are in win now mode and they can't mortgage wins for the sake of player development. It's for this reason Frank does not start and same reason we see vets starting and getting big minutes.

If we were re-building, Willy, Frank and KP would be starting.
However also maybe if we're later in the season and out of the playoffs, we'll begin to shift towards that, give Willy and Frank more chances.

I personally would have brought Kanter off the bench, start Willy, and started Frank too. I think the three of them need that reps and playing time together (third being KP obviously). If for nothing else, you would see what you really have. Willy certainly won't be getting better sitting on the bench. He needs those reps. He needs playing time. He needs live action to learn the game.

I rather have started Willy, Frank and KP together, won 30 games, than to do what we're doing which is making a run for the playoffs, using vets and likely finishing 9 or 10 and just missing out. Those 10 extra losses would mean player development for Frank and Willy and also give the Knicks a better position in the draft.

What's the plan with Jack, Kanter and O'Quinn anyway? Say we finish the season with 41 wins. All three of them are going to command a big pay increase, and we should not be interested in paying any of them more than what they currently make. So maybe all 3 walk, and you've wasted a season on being 10 wins better with vets that likely leave.

I mean get it, tanking is bad for culture. But we wouldn't be tanking in playing Willy and Frank more minutes. We'd be doing player development and our backups would be quality NBA players like Kanter. There was alot of talk about Kanter being good for Porzingis, but we've seen Porzingis regress even with Kanter playing great. This is all on Porzingis. Porzingis can play like a MVP if he's healthy and he can be much worse if he's unhealthy.

Definitely not happy about Frank;s minutes/role and Willy's. I envisioned the two of them and KP starting this year. Perhaps if we're out of the playoff 8 in March, we do the right thing then.

An intelligent approach to team management. Problem is the playoff starved want immediate turnaround. Ain’t gonna happen as we ain’t going 10-10 on a 16 Of 20 on the road trip. We will be fortunate to go 6-14 and we would be 7 under at that point.

Paris907
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12/26/2017  9:00 PM
Per pbpstats.com. KP playing with EK costs us over 3 points per game vs PK without Enes. They are not well marched despite the box score. Ek without KP is an atrocity. No easy solutions here but analytics matter. I have felt for the entire season that if KP is our 4 (despite references to him being a 5) then we need 3 bigs utilizing the minutes. Kanter for all his grit is a defensive plug, a 14/10 man, and in today’s league without a scoring touch beyond 10 feet, an anacronyn. He can certainly play 20-22 a nite if the price is right but he can only back up a 5 and doesn’t have the foot speed or quickness to guard a 4. Without a 20” jumper , he’s simply not a championship contending ball player. Yes i like him. Who doesnt? But I want to win big and if we sign him to a long term contract, he will be eating Embiids dust and Ayer, and Begley etc for years, not to mention Davis, Towns and Boogie.
ekstarks94
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12/26/2017  9:08 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:Think he is a valued player around the league based on last season.
However the Knicks are in win now mode and they can't mortgage wins for the sake of player development. It's for this reason Frank does not start and same reason we see vets starting and getting big minutes.

If we were re-building, Willy, Frank and KP would be starting.
However also maybe if we're later in the season and out of the playoffs, we'll begin to shift towards that, give Willy and Frank more chances.

I personally would have brought Kanter off the bench, start Willy, and started Frank too. I think the three of them need that reps and playing time together (third being KP obviously). If for nothing else, you would see what you really have. Willy certainly won't be getting better sitting on the bench. He needs those reps. He needs playing time. He needs live action to learn the game.

I rather have started Willy, Frank and KP together, won 30 games, than to do what we're doing which is making a run for the playoffs, using vets and likely finishing 9 or 10 and just missing out. Those 10 extra losses would mean player development for Frank and Willy and also give the Knicks a better position in the draft.

What's the plan with Jack, Kanter and O'Quinn anyway? Say we finish the season with 41 wins. All three of them are going to command a big pay increase, and we should not be interested in paying any of them more than what they currently make. So maybe all 3 walk, and you've wasted a season on being 10 wins better with vets that likely leave.

I mean get it, tanking is bad for culture. But we wouldn't be tanking in playing Willy and Frank more minutes. We'd be doing player development and our backups would be quality NBA players like Kanter. There was alot of talk about Kanter being good for Porzingis, but we've seen Porzingis regress even with Kanter playing great. This is all on Porzingis. Porzingis can play like a MVP if he's healthy and he can be much worse if he's unhealthy.

Definitely not happy about Frank;s minutes/role and Willy's. I envisioned the two of them and KP starting this year. Perhaps if we're out of the playoff 8 in March, we do the right thing then.

Tanking in my opinion comes as a direct opportunity rather than making a conscious choice....Philly made a conscious choice and the sucked win and was a laughingstock....now as the gems start to pan out Hinkie is labeled as..."maybe he was on to something" type genius....fact is the whole franchise rests on a player that has been in the league 3 years and played less than a full season....if Embiid goes down the franchise is shot to hell....the thing is without Embiid and Simmons playing like they are the stain of so many years of tanking would be hard to erase....but even then their houses foundation is on shifting sand...

If we were 7-15...ok the opportunity for development=tanking is there, but the road that we are taking I believe will payoff off more than a draft pick....think of San Tone the year Robinson got hurt they tanked and got Tim....their franchise was already used to winning...had a culture of winning and needed that piece to put them over the top....draft or free agency....had Tim gone to Boston...I believe he would have still been a great player....but that Boston team was not winning 5 rings....

This team needs to learn how to win in all of winnings different facets and scenarios....home..road...comeback wins...key players out...etc...mind you winning in the reg season is different from winning in the post season....you cannot win in the playoffs if you do not learn how to win the reg season...


I would love a top 5 pick...,but KP is doing the right thing to hold the franchises feet to the fire to push for playoffs at least until it is clear that they cannot make it....this is how teams learn how to win..baby steps....look at GS....they lost for decades...then they had some good playoff runs with captain jack....had a lull then...mark Jackson came and move the talent they accumulated (curry etc) to the next level and Kerr took it up another notch....we need incremental learning not tear down.....teams tear down purposely to get players like KP...Embiid..Simmons....and even that is not entirely promised...

The Willy issue will be solved...it is tricky but will be solved....I would not move him this year

ekstarks94
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12/26/2017  9:15 PM
Paris907 wrote:Per pbpstats.com. KP playing with EK costs us over 3 points per game vs PK without Enes. They are not well marched despite the box score. Ek without KP is an atrocity. No easy solutions here but analytics matter. I have felt for the entire season that if KP is our 4 (despite references to him being a 5) then we need 3 bigs utilizing the minutes. Kanter for all his grit is a defensive plug, a 14/10 man, and in today’s league without a scoring touch beyond 10 feet, an anacronyn. He can certainly play 20-22 a nite if the price is right but he can only back up a 5 and doesn’t have the foot speed or quickness to guard a 4. Without a 20” jumper , he’s simply not a championship contending ball player. Yes i like him. Who doesnt? But I want to win big and if we sign him to a long term contract, he will be eating Embiids dust and Ayer, and Begley etc for years, not to mention Davis, Towns and Boogie.

Cannot look at the trees and forget about the forest....do we win more with KP and EK...than without EK?
nyknickzingis
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12/26/2017  9:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/26/2017  9:32 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Think he is a valued player around the league based on last season.
However the Knicks are in win now mode and they can't mortgage wins for the sake of player development. It's for this reason Frank does not start and same reason we see vets starting and getting big minutes.

If we were re-building, Willy, Frank and KP would be starting.
However also maybe if we're later in the season and out of the playoffs, we'll begin to shift towards that, give Willy and Frank more chances.

I personally would have brought Kanter off the bench, start Willy, and started Frank too. I think the three of them need that reps and playing time together (third being KP obviously). If for nothing else, you would see what you really have. Willy certainly won't be getting better sitting on the bench. He needs those reps. He needs playing time. He needs live action to learn the game.

I rather have started Willy, Frank and KP together, won 30 games, than to do what we're doing which is making a run for the playoffs, using vets and likely finishing 9 or 10 and just missing out. Those 10 extra losses would mean player development for Frank and Willy and also give the Knicks a better position in the draft.

What's the plan with Jack, Kanter and O'Quinn anyway? Say we finish the season with 41 wins. All three of them are going to command a big pay increase, and we should not be interested in paying any of them more than what they currently make. So maybe all 3 walk, and you've wasted a season on being 10 wins better with vets that likely leave.

I mean get it, tanking is bad for culture. But we wouldn't be tanking in playing Willy and Frank more minutes. We'd be doing player development and our backups would be quality NBA players like Kanter. There was alot of talk about Kanter being good for Porzingis, but we've seen Porzingis regress even with Kanter playing great. This is all on Porzingis. Porzingis can play like a MVP if he's healthy and he can be much worse if he's unhealthy.

Definitely not happy about Frank;s minutes/role and Willy's. I envisioned the two of them and KP starting this year. Perhaps if we're out of the playoff 8 in March, we do the right thing then.

I am not sure what is happening in practice but Willy is the 4th string center. He definitely isn't earning his minutes and hasn't looked that great when he has gotten them. Kanter has been awesome and KP is much more effective with a Kanter/Lopez type at center. It seems a bit funny the day after a guy gets 30 and 20 to say you would have him coming off of the bench. I think the Knicks see Kanter as a part of their young core and they will resign him. I do think there is a chance O'Quinn is moved at the deadline. The KNicks also could let him walk. He is a good player and brings a lot to the team but with Noah's deal on the books something has to give at the 5 spot. In regards to Frank, Hornacek has received a lot of compliments for how he is bringing him a long so far. I think he is doing the right thing with him. I wish the Knicks had a point guard that put pressure on the defense and made things easier on offense for the rest of the team but neither Jack or Frank are that type of player. Hopefully Hardaway is back soon because the weakness at the point is much more obvious when he is out.

Look i love Kanter
However advanced stats aren't as pretty as some may think
He is a -5.1 with regards to on/off
He does not make us better with Porzingis starting

What did the RoLo KP team do anyway?
What's so impressive about a 17-16 team that has a HUGE disparity in home and road games? If we had even number of home and road games right now we easily could be 13-19 and then what's everyone saying about keeping Kanter?

I really love the guy as a teammate and I think he makes a great backup on a contender. However I'm not giving him Amare money. If we are serious about a rebuild we must look to make Willy part of the rotation and give Frank more PT. We have to look to trade either OQuinn or Kanter by trade deadline.

Swishfm3
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12/26/2017  9:33 PM
W. Hernangomez has ALWAYS sucked. Yes, he has a decent offensive game in the paint but that is IT.

His defenders will say that he made the All-Rookie team like that is such a huge accomplishment but, at the end of the day, the only reason his stats were so inflated, the only reason why he even saw any play time last year was because the Knick roster WAS WEAK.

CrushAlot
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12/26/2017  9:51 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Think he is a valued player around the league based on last season.
However the Knicks are in win now mode and they can't mortgage wins for the sake of player development. It's for this reason Frank does not start and same reason we see vets starting and getting big minutes.

If we were re-building, Willy, Frank and KP would be starting.
However also maybe if we're later in the season and out of the playoffs, we'll begin to shift towards that, give Willy and Frank more chances.

I personally would have brought Kanter off the bench, start Willy, and started Frank too. I think the three of them need that reps and playing time together (third being KP obviously). If for nothing else, you would see what you really have. Willy certainly won't be getting better sitting on the bench. He needs those reps. He needs playing time. He needs live action to learn the game.

I rather have started Willy, Frank and KP together, won 30 games, than to do what we're doing which is making a run for the playoffs, using vets and likely finishing 9 or 10 and just missing out. Those 10 extra losses would mean player development for Frank and Willy and also give the Knicks a better position in the draft.

What's the plan with Jack, Kanter and O'Quinn anyway? Say we finish the season with 41 wins. All three of them are going to command a big pay increase, and we should not be interested in paying any of them more than what they currently make. So maybe all 3 walk, and you've wasted a season on being 10 wins better with vets that likely leave.

I mean get it, tanking is bad for culture. But we wouldn't be tanking in playing Willy and Frank more minutes. We'd be doing player development and our backups would be quality NBA players like Kanter. There was alot of talk about Kanter being good for Porzingis, but we've seen Porzingis regress even with Kanter playing great. This is all on Porzingis. Porzingis can play like a MVP if he's healthy and he can be much worse if he's unhealthy.

Definitely not happy about Frank;s minutes/role and Willy's. I envisioned the two of them and KP starting this year. Perhaps if we're out of the playoff 8 in March, we do the right thing then.

I am not sure what is happening in practice but Willy is the 4th string center. He definitely isn't earning his minutes and hasn't looked that great when he has gotten them. Kanter has been awesome and KP is much more effective with a Kanter/Lopez type at center. It seems a bit funny the day after a guy gets 30 and 20 to say you would have him coming off of the bench. I think the Knicks see Kanter as a part of their young core and they will resign him. I do think there is a chance O'Quinn is moved at the deadline. The KNicks also could let him walk. He is a good player and brings a lot to the team but with Noah's deal on the books something has to give at the 5 spot. In regards to Frank, Hornacek has received a lot of compliments for how he is bringing him a long so far. I think he is doing the right thing with him. I wish the Knicks had a point guard that put pressure on the defense and made things easier on offense for the rest of the team but neither Jack or Frank are that type of player. Hopefully Hardaway is back soon because the weakness at the point is much more obvious when he is out.

Look i love Kanter
However advanced stats aren't as pretty as some may think
He is a -5.1 with regards to on/off
He does not make us better with Porzingis starting

What did the RoLo KP team do anyway?
What's so impressive about a 17-16 team that has a HUGE disparity in home and road games? If we had even number of home and road games right now we easily could be 13-19 and then what's everyone saying about keeping Kanter?

I really love the guy as a teammate and I think he makes a great backup on a contender. However I'm not giving him Amare money. If we are serious about a rebuild we must look to make Willy part of the rotation and give Frank more PT. We have to look to trade either OQuinn or Kanter by trade deadline.

Does that number improve with Willy? I don't think so. From Jeff,
Hornacek knows Steve Mills and GM Scott Perry contradicted themselves after labeling Hernangomez part of the team’s “young core.”

“That was all before the trade for Enes Kanter. And they’ve always said, ‘Play the guys who earned it,’” Hornacek said. “(The Kanter trade) added another center into the mix. It’s a tough spot, but that’s when guys step up. I think Willy will.”


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/knicks-center-dilemma-article-1.3579319
Frank is getting 21 minutes a night and some of them are rough. He needs to play and he is getting that chance. When Frank plays well he gets more minutes. It isn't a complicated formula. I think you are asking for big problems if you don't play the guys that work the hardest in practice, and give you the best chance to win. Perry has said repeatedly that the Knicks are not tanking. At this point, Willy's strengths are his friendship with KP and his affordable contract. He hasn't earned his minutes and now appears to be behind Noah on the depth chart.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
wargames
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12/26/2017  9:53 PM
Why the heck are we in win mode again?
ekstarks94
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12/26/2017  9:58 PM
wargames wrote:Why the heck are we in win mode again?

Not win now...learn how to win mode

reub
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12/26/2017  10:42 PM
Willy has hardly played. Commenting on how he's played this season is fake news. Willy was really good last year. If we fall out of the race and I'm the GM I'd trade the highly paid Kanter and move the bargain contract Willy into the starting lineup.
How can this dude drop so low--dont get it?

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